Michelle Obama joins worldwide protest over kidnapped Nigerian schoolgirls

[bigtree]

The First Lady ‏@FLOTUS 2h
Our prayers are with the missing Nigerian girls and their families. It's time to #BringBackOurGirls. -mo pic.twitter.com/glDKDotJRt

[longship]

1. Like prayers are going to accomplish anything?

I despise this. Boko Haram is undoubtedly praying -- and preying. But here's the deal. Prayers don't do a damned thing but help people feel better that they are doing something, when they are really doing nothing at all.

If you want to do something about a situation, the last thing is to bow your head in prayer. When you get to that point, you've as much as admitted defeat. Why? Because nothing fails like prayer.

But, by all means, send a wish to the sky fairy. Or to Santa Claus. Or to the Energizer Bunny. It will work just as well as it has always worked. Not at all.

I imagine -- I hope -- that BO has something else in mind. Please let's not pin the outcome of this on prayers.

[bigtree]

2. you should realize that she's not responsible for any substantive response from our government

. . . and that her husband has approved the deployment of a military contingent to the Nigerian nation to help in the recovery of these girls.


John Kerry @JohnKerry
Kidnapping of kids by #BokoHaram an unconscionable crime. US will support #Nigeria to #BringBackOurGirls & hold perpetrators accountable

[Cha]

4. And, Nigeria has accepted their help! I'll have to find the link..

[sheshe2]

11. Here's one

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-27304441

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024922416

Cha~

[Cha]

14. Mahalo, she~ I hadn't seen your thread.. good ol United States of America..

[sheshe2]

15. Thanks Cha...

I just know they picked the best of the best to go in there. I hope they make progress quickly.

[Cha]

19. ..

[longship]

6. So why the prayers, then?

Our government is a secular one, not a religious one. The extent to which shenanigans like this happen is the extent to which one can argue that the government is not a secular one.

She can support the effort without invoking religion. From the White House!

Too many already use their government office to witness for their religion. Most of them are totally insane Republicans. Enough is enough.

[bigtree]

7. again, she's not a government official.

. . . therefore, not subject to those proscriptions when expressing herself.

[longship]

10. She should know better. nt

[bigtree]

13. that's nonsense, pure and simple nonsense

. . .she's not the only person praying for the safe return of those girls.

You're certainly free to disagree with the power or efficacy of prayer, but I find it much more offensive that you would seek to deny the First Lady that expression of faith.


. . . as Jefferson wrote, "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

[longship]

17. No one should use their position in government to advocate for religion.

As the spouse of the POTUS, Michelle should know better. She's a very intelligent person. There are many ways she could have brought her plea forward without invoking religion.

As an atheist I find her plea for prayers to be insulting, and totally unnecessary.

[JI7]

22. her position in govt ? she is not an elected official , you are making this about you

when i saw this i saw it as nothing more than her bringing attention to what is happening.

[bigtree]

23. what part of 'not a government official' are you not understanding?

. . . you have misrepresented Jefferson's (and others') expression of support of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution.

Everything else that you're arguing here fails under that misapprehension and misunderstanding of yours.

[longship]

25. And Christian prayers in city governments don't violate 1st Amendment either.

This issue is very important to some of us. As a lifelong atheist I have been aware of this creeping religiosity in government since Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson started it in the late 70's.

Maybe you might be comfortable with people in government (and their families) using their offices to witness for their religion, but I am not, especially with the overt (and IMHO dangerous) Republican religious shenanigans of the past few decades.

I have no choice but to draw a line in the sand on this issue. Keep religion out of government. Keep the wall of separation high. And I would imagine that Jefferson would be shocked about today's religious shenanigans.

Thanks for your response. I always like friendly and respectful disagreement.

My regards,

[JI7]

30. what Michelle Obama did has nothing to do with religion in Govt, do you have a problem with this ?

buddhists in south korea chanting and marching for victims of the south korea ferry accident.

[longship]

33. Nice straw man.

South Korea does not have the US Constitution's First Amendment, nor its legislative and historic context.

Nice try, my friend.

[JI7]

35. so what ? doesn't mean one can oppose and support things, just as i oppose a shariah law in iran

[longship]

37. That's precisely why you should oppose this.

You apparently disagree. I know that some will.

But I just wanted to be sure that people here understand my position and my purpose in expressing it here.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

38. she's not specifying a religion, nor any form the prayers should take.

the word "prayer" is another word for the heartfelt expression of human hopes and desires. You can be atheist, or anything else and engage in expression of your dearest hopes and desires.

I think your argument would be better spent responding to actual instances of christian encroachment on secular ground. Prisons, teapuke legislators, fux spews.....

taking your argument here, distracting from a massive crime against female humanity, is ugly.

[longship]

40. I apologize, Blanche.

I certainly did not mean to minimize the horror of what has happened to these girls. But they are also being held by a group which has a religious objection to girls being educated and, from their expressed intent, apparently see them only as sex slaves to husbands. The fact that they do this with apparent religious justification is precisely why I find the FLOTUS prayer invitation to be misguided.

Religion and government, as well as religion and politics, is always a toxic mix. In this case, in any way portraying this as a religious battle may have unforeseen consequences.

One can oppose what has happened to those girls without wrapping it in religion. One does not need religious justification to condemn what has happened to them. This especially since the bad guys are apparently already doing just that to justify their evil.

You may disagree, and that's okay.

Best regards,
LS

[JI7]

45. it's bizarre to compare the 2 ,it's like republicans who start talking about abortion leading to

murder.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

47. I agree with you regarding religion and politics.But 1) this is not the place, specifically because:

2)in my opinion, you're making much of a common turn of speech. That statement wasn't a religious declaration.


Just how I see the situation.

Thanks for replying.

-Blanche

[longship]

49. You have a point, my friend.

Please understand that I am reticent for the US to frame this as a religious battle. The opponents have apparently already done that; it is their entire justification, if one can call it that with any credible morality.

I see any framing of this as religious to be losing in the big picture. During the US Civil War both sides appealed for prayers. The most deadly war on US soil was fought with both sides believing that God was on their side. I would hope that that lesson would have been learned by now.

Invoking gods at times of international strife -- especially when the bad guys are doing so flagrantly -- is ill advised unless one wants to turn the situation into a religious war. We've had altogether too much of that this past decade.

As always, I respect your input. I understand your position. Please understand mine (although I confess that I may be biased about it).

My best regards,
LS

[Cha]

20. Thank you, I agree.. as someone who doesn't "pray".

[bigtree]

24. I'm not inclined to any public expressions of faith or religion of my own

. . . but, it's a glaring fallacy to assume, as many do, that the founders intended for the country which was founded on freedom of religion to be void of all expressions of faith.

[longship]

26. But one must such things in historic context.

Factor in the lunacy of the religious right, and one should worry. If one is an atheist, and one knows the history of these matters, one might be worried about such things, or events that would give the lunacy any comfort.

[Cha]

28. If anything.. prayers, etc.. helps other people then I'm all for it.. just because I am

different I wouldn't deny it to someone else.

I will light a or though~

[longship]

36. Love ya, Cha.

But as a lifelong atheist, born in the 40's, and having been politically active when the religious right began their shenanigans, I now have to draw a firm line in the sand on this issue. I despise giving the theocratic lunatics any additional oxygen. They have too much already.

That is why I take such a strong position on this. I know that there are other good Democrats who disagree. That's fine.

But I will still defend my position that under the current political environment overt expressions of religiosity come across as pandering to people who we do not want anywhere near power.

[Cha]

39. Love you, too, longship.. but I disagree with you here on Michelle's message..

[longship]

41. I do not disagree with her message.

Only with her asking for prayers.

[Blue_Roses]

54. "She should know better..."

What an incredibly authoritarian remark. Who are you? The school principal? Her parent? Her boss? Geeze...

She is a woman and mother first to being an American, who just so happens to be the first lady. She doesn't hold a political office, nor should she be treated as such. I think she does an awesome job of taking the high road on so many controversial things.

How do you think she feels as a mother of two daughters who are the age of those kidnapped girls. Knowing the unimaginable thing that must be happening to them.

Get off your high horse and look around.

[951-Riverside]

8. Prayers are a lot more than what the worthless President of Nigeria is doing

...which is nothing.

but hey maybe I'm expecting too much out of this guy...

[IMG][/IMG]

[longship]

9. Given that prayers do nothing whatsoever,

you are wrong.

Sorry.

[JI7]

16. it's not about prayer as much as it is about bringing attention to the issue

world pressure is the only thing that is getting the govt in nigeria to try to do something.

[longship]

18. And one could do that any number of ways without religion.

I stand by my posts.

[JI7]

21. i'm an atheist but others aren't. she isn't a public official whose job is to deal with this

and not doing anything other than pray. for her it's about bringing attention to it.

[longship]

27. She's the spouse of the guy in the most powerful office in the world.

I will let that statement speak for itself.

[JI7]

29. and that's why she put this out in public , as i said it's about bringing

attention to what has happened.

[longship]

32. She could have done that without the appeal to prayer.

I reject the concept that when bad things happen government officials, or their proxies, should ask people to pray. She speaking from the White House, not a fucking pulpit in a church.

I resent a government official, or their proxy, telling me I should pray. And so should you.

[JI7]

34. she isn't calling on others to pray , she lives at the white house , i'm an atheist

and i don't pray and i didn't get see her telling me to pray.

i also was not offended by the Buddhists doing their thing for victims of the ferry disaster.

[LanternWaste]

52. Nor does hope

"Given that prayers do nothing whatsoever..."

Nor does hope. Or concern.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. The Nigerian President has been doing horrific things for months now, no one has cared

And now they seek to make him a hero. Which is the whole point of all of this. To put the US on the same side as a monster engaged in genocide.
I'd not be a bit surprised to find Jonathan did the kidnapping. It serves him well, that's for sure. He's a monster and very corrupt on people on DU are posting abject thanks to him.

[Le Taz Hot]

46. And as an atheist

I say let people do what makes them feel better. She's not a government official, she has no power to do anything; however, her show of support means a great deal to me and I'm sure a lot of other people. And I say that as a huge detractor of her husband's policies. Now, stop being an ass and making us atheists look bad.

[JoePhilly]

53. The first lady should pick up a gun and go get them herself, damn it!

[okaawhatever]

3. I'd love to see her flip the sign over and have it say on the other side

"We've got drones and know how to use them. Let the Girls go"

[RainDog]

31. LOL

[JoePhilly]

55. I would not be surprised if we find out ...

... that while being very quiet publicly, the US government is approaching this situation in a manner similar to how we've gone after pirates, but larger.

Drones, ground recon, and then special forces.

[Blue_Roses]

56. lol...

[Cha]

5. Mahalo bigtree~

[sheshe2]

12. K&R

Thanks Bigtree.

[Redford]

42. So how did this discussion go from kidnapped Nigerian girls

To ------OMG The FLOTUS said to PRAY------- get over yourselves already. Good on you, Michelle Obama. You have a right to pray and so do those of us who know and receive the benefits of prayer

[arely staircase]

43. dear god

Please return these girls to their families.

Amen

[840high]

48. Amen.

[Le Taz Hot]

44. Thank you, Mrs. Obama!

[sheshe2]

50. Kick!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024911180

[B2G]

51. I can't believe that the majority of this thread

is about the fact that she said 'prayers' rather than the fact she's bringing visablity to this issue.

How disgustingly petty.

[okaawhatever]

58. +100 nt

[Gothmog]

59. Bringbackourgirls

This kidnapping is simply wrong