Old Jobs Not Coming Back Meme - Pathetic.

[TheMastersNemesis]

I am so tired of hearing the meme old jobs are NOT coming back that even some Dems mouth. What they leave out is what kinds of jobs are being created. Also they also seem to be saying is that decent paying manufacturing jobs are now permanent gone.

With the continuing decline of manufacturing jobs there is no way to create a decent economy. When we had a large number of manufacturing jobs that payed decently years ago the country was certainly a lot more prosperous.

Now we have the prospect of TPP that would essentially reduce wages of American workers all across the board. Staganant or severely reduced wages also mean lower tax revenues to run government and maintain our infrastructure.

It seems like we as workers are being made for fools.

[Sunlei]

1. We need the Federal minimum wage raised. It has been to long. Pay is well behind other 1st worlds.

Our industry is up in some areas, moves slow in other areas.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/RELEASES/G17/current/default.htm

[Skittles]

2. it is also not good for national pride that MADE IN USA is so rare

and the stuff we are expected to buy is often cheap garbage

[Jesus Malverde]

51. National pride is nationalism.

It's frequently derided as jingoistic, provincial and anti-global. We are more likely to take down our borders then stand them up again.

[Skittles]

58. ?

I don't see how objecting to shipping the American middle class offshore or being sick of having to buy cheap, disposable crap is JINGOISTIC or ANTI-GLOBAL - many American companies now treat American workers with open contempt - is that what GOING GLOBAL was supposed to mean? FUCK THAT.

[Jesus Malverde]

59. Exactly...

I mis-spoke looking out for the american worker is actually "xenophobic and nativist" (comment in this thread)...



American owned manufacturing is bigger than ever. It's just overseas.

Now that Chinese workers have a little change in their pocket, not only are they the preferred place for manufacturing, they are the preferred place for market growth.

My solution would be a labor and pollution tax on imported goods for all goods that did not meet US labor and environmental standards during manufacturing. Thats not going to happen because "Free Trade" is the zeitgeist of our era.

As a businessman there is little incentive to start a business in the united states, when you can make it overseas and the only extra expense is shipping which with the volume coming from asia is negligible.

The Chinese can build quality goods, they are mostly built to american specs. An iPhone is quality, some plastic furniture from walmart not so much. Both made in China. Like food, most americans prefer cheap and quantity, to quality and expensive.

The disembowelement of American manufacturing is one of the sadder episodes of our recent history. Factories literally dismantled and shipped across the pacific along with the innovation that used to occur in them.

[msongs]

3. our current administration prefers to jack up the rate of h1-b visas and find jobs for their family

mbmers

[phleshdef]

4. Wow, if you meant that the way it sounds, thats some racist bullshit right there.

[badtoworse]

5. How is it racist?

[phleshdef]

6. It came off as "Obama wants more H1b visas so he can employ his Kenyan family"

[tkmorris]

9. Hmm. Didn't read that way to me

[phleshdef]

12. Then what is the connection between "h1b visas" and "find jobs for their family members"?

[Ed Suspicious]

15. this might help clear it up.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/05/06/obama-administration-will-let-spouses-of-some-on-immigrant-work-visas-get-jobs/

[phleshdef]

19. That makes more sense. But without knowing the context it sounded pretty bad.

I had no knowledge of that particular story until you just posted me that link.

[Jesus Malverde]

54. Note the use of the word their, next to H1-B not his.

One is plural, referring to many, one is singular referring to the president. Seems obvious if you read it unreflexively.

[phleshdef]

67. People misuse "their" all the time. And that particular poster writes in half sentences and....

...incorrect grammar quite a bit. So spare me your god damn sanctimonious lectures. I don't give a shit about.

[Spider Jerusalem]

22. It still sounds pretty xenophobic and nativist honestly

[Jesus Malverde]

55. Anything short of free trade in goods and labor for all is apostasy.

and we wonder how we got here.

[Spider Jerusalem]

57. Says someone whose current location in profile says "Japan"

whose job are you stealing?

[Jesus Malverde]

60. I'm working on a secret project to replace all the McJobs with tiny robots.

[Spider Jerusalem]

61. Complaining about immigrants and foreigners taking jobs in the US when working in another country?

There's a name for that: "hypocrisy".

[Nay]

62. Well, JM may have had to do that due to the shipping of US jobs overseas;

that doesn't necessarily make him a hypocrite. You can hate something but be forced to do it anyway, just due to crappy social and economic policy shoved into your face by your own country.

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. Yeah I don't know where that came from either. n/t

[Enthusiast]

44. Me either.

[Marr]

24. Oh, brother. /nt

[Jesus Malverde]

52. Read it again.

It's a reference to the latest move to give work permits to the spouses of H1-B visa holders. Most of those workers come from India and it has nothing to do with President Obamas family.

[leftyohiolib]

7. h1-bs are brought in to drag down wages. why hire americans when you can import people

who will work for less

[FSogol]

14. WTF? The h1-b progam exists to give jobs to Obama's family?

You really should edit that nonsense.

[Ed Suspicious]

16. That isn't what he meant.

[FSogol]

17. That's what he wrote.

[Ed Suspicious]

18. I would bet dollars to doughnuts he was talking about the following;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/05/06/obama-administration-will-let-spouses-of-some-on-immigrant-work-visas-get-jobs/

[jwirr]

8. In 2008 there was a lot of talk about how many jobs would be created by financing renewable

energy etc. We have a small start on those jobs but we need to do more.

[Jesus Malverde]

64. They always talk about a new jobs engine to replace what we've lost.

There is never talk about replacing what we've lost, it's bait and switch and blame the worker for having the wrong skill set.

[brooklynite]

10. Would it make you feel better if people lied?

Part of my job is to analyze long-term trends, and what I'm seeing is that in NYC, "traditional" jobs (manufacturing, Financial, publishing) are declining, and new industries (technology, medical care, hospitality) are growing. Nobody's saying that's "good" or "bad", just that it "is".

[Supersedeas]

42. Good question

[Jesus Malverde]

50. A large part of this is the demographic trend called the baby boom...nt

[Capt. Obvious]

11. Laverne & Shirley adapted

[The2ndWheel]

20. When America had a large number of manufacturing jobs that paid decently years ago

Americans were needed to do those jobs, which needed to be done in America. Neither of those is true anymore.

[Jesus Malverde]

53. The only reason is free trade.

Free trade for labor, cheap and un unionized. Free trade also means free from environmental controls. As long as both those conditions exist it's a no brainer to invest overseas to build products to sell in the united states.

The carbon tax is never for products made overseas, it's for industries and consumers in america.

[Spider Jerusalem]

21. No, the jobs aren't coming back

those jobs that were lost in the '70s? Most of that was because of automation. Those were the days before offshoring of operations. Those guys who stood on an assembly line at GM and Ford plants in Detroit and Hamtramck and Youngstown and Flint and Saginaw and Dearborn, riveting on body panels and welding floor-pans? There are robots doing that now. And the auto industry isn't going to go back to production methods that are 30 and 40 years out of date (neither is any other industry, for that matter).

And the US used to be self-sufficient in things like oil production (half of oil consumed in the US is now imported); the US doesn't mine enough nickel to meet industrial demand, the rare-earth metals needed for use in tech manufacturing are all imported.

[Joe Turner]

41. Automation played minor role

We have been knocked out of whole industries, automation or not. There is little if any manufacturing in electronics, technology, furniture, clothes. It's a long, long list and the main cause was free trade deals and permitting - encouraging mercantilist trading relations with nations that put up trade barriers to our exports.

[hack89]

23. You don't need lots of cheap labor to manufacture high end goods

it is simply the nature of the beast. Manufacturing is going strong in America but it has moved away from mass produced low margin consumer goods to high end, high margin capital goods. And the workers that manufacturers need now require higher technical skills and education levels then in the past.

The disconnect is with our education system - a high school diploma is not enough anymore for a decent high paying job. Technical training, apprenticeship programs and certification programs are what we need.

[A HERETIC I AM]

30. Whatever happened to Clinton's idea of 14 years of primary school anyway? n/t

[hack89]

32. I would support an optional additional two years of primary school

focused on science, math and technical skills that also included internships/job training/apprenticeships.

[A HERETIC I AM]

33. His idea was K through 12 then either 2 years mandatory for an AA/AS junior college degree

or 2 years in a Technical/Vocational school learning a trade.

We still need competent welders in this country, among other things. A decent welder can make a damned good living. The lack of emphasis on training for the trades is a damned shame.

I might not agree with all his politics, but Mike Rowe has it right in that too many young people seem to be afraid of taking those "dirty jobs", many of which pay better at entry level than an entire slew of office positions.

[hack89]

34. I would support that. nt

[Jesus Malverde]

49. It's debatable whether those jobs are actually lacking in workers...nt

[xchrom]

25. policy sent textile jobs over seas - for example

we should demand and expect the extinction of policies that send ANY job out of the country.

[Enthusiast]

45. Pluuuuuus one!

[Jesus Malverde]

65. Yep it's a war and half measures aren't going to win it.

American companies have never manufactured more goods than today. They are just doing it outside the united states.

Nonsense like the carbon tax with no penalties for fleeing the regulatory environment only hurt small businesses that cannot afford to go overseas.

It's interesting the last tariff I heard about was on solar panels from china. Basically a blow to all solar consumers in the united states.

[Demo_Chris]

26. Those kobs are NOT coming back...

And technology and globalization will obliterate much of what remains. That's not theory or some doom and gloom scenario, it is simply reality. More grim truth: minimum wage increases are nothing more than rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, just feel good bullshit to delude the masses. Only direct, hands-on service jobs cannot be exported. That's it. Everything else can and will be. Why pay an American accountant to do your books, when you can hire an Indian company to do them for a fraction of the price? And even if the government wanted to stop this, it's impossible. It became inevitable with the internet. That's the future, and were it not bad enough today's young people will also inherit the twenty TRILLION debt the Boomers wracked up during their glorious 'me generation' party.

So there it is. It's not all doom and gloom for the American people. We won't all die. America will simply become another China or India.

[lumberjack_jeff]

27. The old jobs are not coming back... and we need to import workers to do the new ones.

They think we're stupid, and are working hard to try to promote that trait within the voting public.

[Doctor_J]

28. Even McJobs would be OK if the minimum wage was $15.00

and they are full time.

[GeorgeGist]

29. The aristocracy never sees it coming.

[KurtNYC]

31. Manufacturing has been heavily automated and will continue down that path

So a line that used to employ 100 people is now 4 people and 20 robotic units.

ATMs have replaced a percentage of bank tellers. Automated phone systems have reduced the number of CSRs needed. Etc. etc.

Even organic farming is now exploring the use of robots to weed, prune and harvest smaller crops and vines:

I can think of many jobs that are never coming back and shouldn't. Mind numbing, carpal tunnel inducing, repetitive motion jobs where the worker is exposed regularly to harsh temperatures, chemicals and conditions are what engineers have always wanted to get rid of.

The US standard of living peaked in 1968. That economy was based on exporting food and goods to europe and being perceived positively as a high quality producer. We have a lot more competition now. Manufacturing relies on producing goods which are broken beyond repair within a short period of time and therefore need to be replaced with more disposable goods. That is how we got into this mess -- stripping the environment while owning almost nothing that lasts.

[sendero]

35. Sorry....

..... but in my opinion these folks are right. The reasons may suck and they may or may not be reversible (some of them) but I'm betting the "old" jobs are not coming back and I think you'd be making a mistake to think otherwise.

Barring a serious revolution, which simply isn't going to happen in this complacent country.

[Jesus Malverde]

48. The prison industrial complex...

would welcome a revolution. With a decline in violent crime and the war on drugs falling out of favor, the prisons will soon be lacking in inmates.

[Shandris]

36. Yes, when the robots replace our fast food workers...

...they're going to move up into that new cushy job doing...
...
...
...erm...what will they be doing again?

I mean, I remember hearing about all the people in the tool and die industry according to my grandfather. A place called Tool and Die Row in Detroit, where a person could get an apprenticeship by starting on one end and moving to the other, gaining a bit more knowledge at each place they were fired from. And all those people were replaced eventually. Where in Detroit did they end up at, again? I'm sure it was somewhere nice like the Chrysler Building, right? I mean, with all those jobs lost then 'upgraded', that must be some top-tier stuff, what with tool and die being one of the highest-paid industries in the 70's...

[kiranon]

37. The new normal is where one will have several different

careers/jobs over a lifetime. Stay in school, go back to school, learn something that is needed now and in the future. There is no going back. The rest of the world caught up to us and is passing us by. Look at the statistics for American high school seniors - math and reading scores are down. The culture needs to value learning whether a trade or book learning and to find it "cool".

[HughBeaumont]

63. OK . . . and in an America where everyone is either unemployed or overworked and underpaid . . .

. . . where will the money COME from to pay for these multiple trips to college to learn these multiple careers? When will they have time to DO the work on TOP of surviving for basic needs? If businesspeople cannot even predict what will remain onshore or needed in the future, then how is Joe or Jane Cubeslave omniscient enough to know such a thing?

[kiranon]

68. On line learning, community colleges and with the Boomers aging try medical fields, anything having

to do with the dead or dying (funeral business - planning, catering, helping clear out possessions, selling them on Ebay - many people do not know how to do that), helping with computer use, repair, disposal, recycling; most everything tech from top to bottom; anything having to do with pets and children - robots can't do that; houses need all kinds of repairs, furnace/air conditioning services; inventing new ways to do old things; who doesn't need insurance; energy alternatives in cars and for energy needs in general are big areas for the now and the future; (solar panels, windmills, desalinzation plants/methods); water resources and management; flood control; drought issues; just to name a few. Find an interest, volunteer, network, learn about jobs that exist but one doesn't know they exist. Addiction, family and other relationship counseling and the beauty business will always be with us. Feel free to add to this list.

[progressoid]

38. But the DOW is up!!

.

.

.

[pampango]

39. Progressive taxes and strong unions have helped in other countries.

In the U.S., about 47 per cent of total growth went to the wealthiest one per cent between 1975 and 2007, compared to 37 per cent in Canada, while in Australia and the U.K., about 20 per cent of growth went to the wealthiest.

In Nordic countries and in France, Italy, Portugal and Spain, about 90 per cent of growth went to the 99 per cent of middle and low-income earners in the same period.

Larry Summers, who was secretary of the treasury under Bill Clinton and is now a Harvard professor, has pointed out how the constant push for tax cuts and the erosion of union bargaining rights has led to greater income inequality.

The study calls for higher marginal tax rates and fewer tax deductions and credits aimed at high income earners. It also advocates wealth or inheritance taxes.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/top-1-taking-lion-s-share-of-global-growth-oecd-says-1.2627154

[Progressive dog]

40. Just like in agriculture, manufacturing

has increased output with less input. We've been moving toward a service based economy for decades.

[AngryAmish]

43. This does not have to be so

There aee two ideologies driving this 1. Free trade and 2. Mass immigration.

Free trade lets anything into the country. This is very near sighted. If Apple wants to sell products here, build them here. Same with Sony et al.

Too many lower skilled workers means the price of their labor is less. Restrict immigration like Canada, no skills, no in. That will bid up middle class wages.

[Enthusiast]

46. +1 a whole fucking bunch.

[Jesus Malverde]

56. Part of the problem is our corporations want to sell much more overseas than

they do here.

The scale of the markets in china and india are off the charts compared to our aging, retrenched, declining consumer population. The consumers in china and india are each year richer, roads that were full of bicycles are now full of cars. Meanwhile young people here can't even afford cars or reject them for lifestyle reasons.

Where we do see increases in US population, they are likely to consume low cost goods rather than high value goods, all the while requiring more government subsidies.

[Jesus Malverde]

47. Not only are they not coming back, we're on the cusp

of a robotics revolution. The low paying service jobs are next.

There isn't anything we can do about it.

Like free trade with mexico, to MFN status for China. The corporations are focused on the bottom line, not the american good.

Even our financial titans will shift their focus to China. When you have 200 billion dollar IPOs it's irresistable. Thats a one day event we could never reproduce here. The scale is off the charts.

It's the future we have brought on ourselves.

[IronLionZion]

66. Seek out and buy Made in USA, Union Made, local etc.

I just bought a cast iron skillet made in Tennessee and a blender made in Utah (85% US parts). They are excellent quality and have good warranties to back it up. The Lodge skillet is actually cheaper than a comparable chinese-made one (shipping costs?)

Consumer demand creates jobs. Buying local causes more to be produced locally. It makes a difference.

http://www.acontinuouslean.com/the-american-list/

http://madeinusachallenge.com/made-in-america-master-list/