Dear Americans, Your Hashtags Won’t #BringBackOurGirls

[Why Syzygy]

Dear Americans, Your Hashtags Won’t #BringBackOurGirls. You Might Actually Be Making Things Worse.

Simple question. Are you Nigerian? Do you have constitutional rights accorded to Nigerians to participate in their democratic process? If not, I have news you. You can’t do anything about the girls missing in Nigeria. You can’t. Your insistence on urging American power, specifically American military power, to address this issue will ultimately hurt the people of Nigeria.

It heartens me that you’ve taken up the mantle of spreading “awareness” about the 200+ girls who were abducted from their school in Chibok; it heartens me that you’ve heard the cries of mothers and fathers who go yet another day without their child. It’s nice that you care.

Here’s the thing though, when you pressure Western powers, particularly the American government to get involved in African affairs and when you champion military intervention, you become part of a much larger problem. You become a complicit participant in a military expansionist agenda on the continent of Africa. This is not good.

You might not know this, but the United States military loves your hashtags because it gives them legitimacy to encroach and grow their military presence in Africa. AFRICOM (United States Africa Command), the military body that is responsible for overseeing US military operations across Africa, gained much from #KONY2012 and will now gain even more from #BringBackOurGirls.



http://www.compareafrique.com/dear-americans-hashtags-wont-bringbackourgirls-might-actually-making-things-worse/


See also>

http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/freedom-rider-how-not-%E2%80%9Cbring-back-our-girls%E2%80%9D

[B2G]

1. Well. Good luck then.

[leftynyc]

2. Just what those girls need

Some internet schmuck giving Americans a lecture. Very helpful.

[AverageJoe90]

9. Exactly. Exactly.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if this person was one of those smarmy ass "check your white/1st world privilege" types, to be honest; they tend to be the ones with the biggest problems in this regard, at least when it comes to the Third World anyway. Pardon my hardcore cynicism if you will, but there isn't much that surprises me anymore, TBH.

[Dorian Gray]

97. Yep...

I'm sure this lecture would make the parents of those girls happy, too.

[Blue_Tires]

3. Um, it's Nigeria's useless president who has beeen begging other nations for help

So maybe a little more of the outrage needs to be pointed in the direction of Jonathan's ineptitude and inaction instead of who's using what hashtag over here...

[big_dog]

61. didnt Nigeria's president ask for our help?

sorry ms. Jumoke the time has come for justice!

[1000words]

4. There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth ...

[Jemon]

5. I wonder why we don't send a team to help the oppressed in North Korea

Oh yeah. I forgot. We don't mess with nuke - yielding countries.

[pampango]

18. Yep. Nukes are a dictator's best friend.

May not do much for his people's quality of life but that is not a really relevant consideration.

[MADem]

136. NK is China's "job." They're stuck babysitting that mess.

It's pretty much agreed that every time NK poops, China has to pick it up. When people in the UN Club have an issue with NK, they make China play the adult in the room with L'il Kim.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

88. The close proximity to China might have something to do with it.

Welcome to DU by the way. I hope your posts aren't all as cynical as what I've seen from you so far.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

6. Nonsense. Africa desperately needs more Western humanitarian intervention.

It's not obvious to me that this specific intervention would do more good than harm, but it's also not obvious that it wouldn't.

And this kind of thought-free "helping rescue kidnapped schoolgirls is part of a military expansionist agenda" bilge doesn't rise much above the intellectual level of "The West is Eeevil!", frankly.

[AverageJoe90]

17. I can't disagree with that.

"And this kind of thought-free "helping rescue kidnapped schoolgirls is part of a military expansionist agenda" bilge doesn't rise much above the intellectual level of "The West is Eeevil!", frankly."

Or "only whites can be racist" or "all whites are privileged", frankly.....or any of the various Obama bashing screeds you find on FireDogLake and other such places for that matter.

I mean, I get that the West hasn't always had the best track record, and we certainly didn't during the Cold War era. But is sitting out really going to help these poor girls? I don't think so. I'm glad that Obama's been trying to help out however he can.

[Gravitycollapse]

102. "the West hasn't always had the best track record" - When has the West not had a bad track record?

Especially within Africa? When has Western, white hegemony not been a destructive force in the lives of citizens of African nations?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

154. For the last several decades, that's when.

(Assuming that by "been a destructive force in the lives of citizens of African nations?" you're talking about net impact, rather than there existing examples of negative impact. And if you're not, you're Doing It Wrong.)

[JackRiddler]

169. You mean for example during the Western intervention in Rwanda?

The one in which France and the United States had a proxy war, giving rise to a genocide directly backed by French boots on the ground, followed by 20 years of ridiculous posturing about the lack of a Western intervention?

Oh yeah.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

170. ...you're citing the Rwandan genocide in a case *against* Western intervention in Africa?

And I'm afraid the "proxy war" claim smacks of a desperate attempt to avoid having to believe that anyone who isn't rich and white could be ultimately responsible for anything bad.

[JackRiddler]

171. It's not a claim, it's the history.

France and the U.S. were both involved in arming, organizing and supporting the sides in the Rwandan civil war up to and including the genocide. France intervened with French troops in Rwanda during the genocide so as to secure the retreat of the Hutu Power forces who were primarily responsible. This was big news at the time. Since liberal imperialists have no shame, they have fostered the entirely false myth that the Western interventions were a lack of Western interventions.

Similarly opposite to the reality is your idea that it's anti-racist to blame the black people for things the white people did. The Rwandan genocide was committed by Rwandans, yes. And the Western intervention supported the conditions that created the genocide. Do you want to let the West off for its actions? Or do you just want to not bother with learning the actual history?

[Gravitycollapse]

100. Historically, "Western humanitarian intervention" in Africa was colonialism...

And is now neo-colonialism.

I find it hard to believe that the Western, white hegemony has suddenly been subject to an entire reversal of motivation and role so that interventionist policies in Africa wouldn't exist within paternalist tendencies. The very concept of intervention in Africa can never actually be separated from that paternalism.

We as Westerners have a savior complex and it isn't so much the helping of others that is the problem but the real, deeply seeded reasons for doing so. Without understanding why we do these things, any help we offer will inevitably morph into a monster of just another white explorer's incursion into the "dark continent."

Maybe you've underestimated the intellect of those who you disagree with?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

161. "Africa desperately needs more Western humanitarian intervention."

Take up the White Man's burden, Send forth the best ye breed
Go bind your sons to exile, to serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness, On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples, Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden, In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple, An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit, And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden, The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden, No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper, The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter, The roads ye shall not tread,
Go make them with your living, And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better, The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour (Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought he us from bondage, Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden, Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom To cloke your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper, By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden, Have done with childish days--
The lightly proferred laurel, The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood, through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom, The judgment of your peers!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

168. But a fart has no nose.

See, I can play the quotations game too. It's fun, but you need to make sure that your quotation is relevant, or it's nota good substitute for actual thought.

Your error (well, one of them) in this case is in failing to distinguish between conquering a country against the will of the people who live there, and - for example - vaccinating people there or, more immediately relevantly, helping rescue their kidnapped daughters, with their consent and indeed enthusiasm.

It's a very large and obvious distinction.

[KT2000]

7. Hey - guess what -

author of this article - these girls need to be saved and now! Get this article into a master's thesis but like it or not - the whole world is watching. Save those girls.

[bluestateguy]

8. Much like the whole Kony thing was just a big pop culture trendy thing

It seemed to be more about being a fad than the actual problem of childhood conscrption; a way for upper class suburbanites to feel good about themselves.

But at least the Twitter campaign may have helped to get it the media coverage it deserved. I'll say that.

[NightWatcher]

24. Exactly, just like the Kony thing. It's cool to tweet and pretend

But no one here honestly gives a shit. We don't know how to do so. A far off land that we couldn't find on google maps has a horrible problem....so what, I've got bills to pay. I'll tweet about it and then pretend that it solved something. Slactivism feels good.

[Supersedeas]

67. the First Lady does

[leftynyc]

157. I give a shit

And I don't tweet. I would think that anything that shows people getting involved with understanding what's happening outside the US - especially young people - would be considered a good thing but it seems many on DU are just using it as another excuse to bash the US. It's pathetically predictable. It looks to me that disappointment with President Obama has made many here very bitchy.

[Comrade Grumpy]

10. What could this person possibly be talking about?

"Obama Expands Military Involvement in Africa" (2009)

http://ipsnorthamerica.net/news.php?idnews=2965

"US Expands Secret Intelligence Operations in Africa" (2012)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-expands-secret-intelligence-operations-in-africa/2012/06/13/gJQAHyvAbV_story.html

"The Startling Size of US Military Operations in Africa" (2013)

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/09/us-military-bases-africa

"DoD Quietly Expanding AFRICOM Missions" (2014)

http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20140416/NEWS/304160040/DoD-quietly-expanding-AFRICOM-missions

Humanitarian impulses are a good thing, but I don't think that's what all this is about.

[B2G]

11. Then he shouldn't have made this about that.

[Why Syzygy]

16. lol

ru kidding. A ruse is a must when one has a covert agenda.

[LadyHawkAZ]

12. ...sincerely, Boko Haram n/t

[theHandpuppet]

21. Meanwhile, in Nigeria's capital...

... they're sipping cocktails at the World Economic Forum.

[TBF]

56. Or they are in Houston at the OTC -

Where the cool kids are --> Offshore Technology Conference. Discover why OTC is the best event to gain technical knowledge and make valuable contacts.

http://www.otcnet.org/2014/

[Gravitycollapse]

107. Your post is equal parts shameful and vapid.

[Why Syzygy]

13. Another...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/06/western-intervention-nigeria-kidnapped-girls-corruption-boko-haram

The call has been for western intervention to help find the girls, and to help "stabilise" Nigeria in the aftermath of their kidnap. The British government has offered "practical help".

Yet western intervention has time and again failed to deal with particular problems and – worse – has led to more deaths, displacements and atrocities than were originally faced. All too often it has been justified with reference to women's rights, claiming that enlightened military forces can create an atmosphere where women are free from violence and abuse. The evidence is that the opposite is the case.

Women's rights were a major justification for the Afghanistan war, launched in 2001, when Cherie Blair and Laura Bush supported their husbands' war as a means of liberating Afghan women. Today, with millions displaced and tens of thousands dead, Afghanistan remains one of the worst countries on earth for women to live, with forced marriage, child marriage, rape and other atrocities still occurring widely.

And western intervention is already firmly embedded in Africa. It does not have the same profile as in Afghanistan or Iraq, because past wars have made it harder to put boots on the ground. But Barack Obama has his military forces engaged in West Africa through their Predator drone base in Niger, which borders northern Nigeria. It also borders Mali, the scene of recent French and British interventions, and Libya, object of a disastrous western bombing campaign in 2011 that has left that country in a state of civil war and collapse.

[NuclearDem]

14. I'm certainly not championing military involvement.

Law enforcement, yes, but not military, specifically because there's a history of Western military intervention.

[Egnever]

15. Then get your shit together and get those girls back yourselves

Or we will bring in the big guns and do it for you.


Stupid fucking post inspired by greenwald no doubt.

[AverageJoe90]

20. "Stupid fucking post inspired by greenwald no doubt." Probably.

Greenwald's a real fool of his own kind, no doubt about it.

[Comrade Grumpy]

22. Internet tough guy. n/t

[Jemon]

23. I am sure you will volunteer to go help

[Egnever]

25. Maybe

It's a lot more worthwile than a lot of other reasons to use our military.

[leftynyc]

158. I thought I was the only one

thinking that and my contempt for Greenwald was coloring my view. It does appear that those who live to trash the US will look for any excuse - even if it means using 200 young girls who were kidnapped and may be sold into slavery. Disgusting.

[theHandpuppet]

19. Ah yes, but our corporate representatives and oil contracts are welcome

Not that any of that money actually gets to the people of Nigeria.

What utter BS.

[stevenleser]

26. Dumb article that conflates and makes assumptions about a lot of different things

The Harlem4 organization here in NYC is putting together a march on Saturday at 9:30am which I will be attending that is going to march 78 blocks from a church near Marcus Garvey Park at 122nd street to the Nigerian Consulate on 44th and 2nd. When we get there, Al Sharpton is going to address the crowd.

And yes, information on the march is being advertised with the hashtag of #bringbackourgirls.

The march is to pressure the Nigerian government to do something, not advocate for intervention.

This author is not going to shut us up or prevent us from marching as seems his intent.

[Comrade Grumpy]

28. FYI, the author of the blog is a Nigerian-American woman.

[stevenleser]

30. Good for her. She can't speak for Nigeria anymore than I can speak for America.

When you actually travel to Africa, as I have, you will find that most of the folks actually have a strongly positive opinion of Europe and the US and our efforts there. Obviously, it depends exactly where you are, but by and large I have found that to be true.

[Comrade Grumpy]

38. I don't think she or I claims that she is speaking for Nigeria.

But I will give her a bonus point or two for actually being from the country in question.

[stevenleser]

41. That is exactly what you implied when you responded to me that she is a Nigerian American woman

You implied that this gives her some kind of authority when it does not.

[Why Syzygy]

43. It gives her more than you. nt

[stevenleser]

46. No, it doesn't. nt

[Why Syzygy]

51. Now you

are just blatantly displaying self importance. By gawd you are going to march and that is MEANINGFUL.

To deny that an actual Ugandan citizen has no more insight into the subject than you is the hubris of imperialism. You fit right in.

[stevenleser]

53. Nope, I'm not. You have no basis for imputing any special consideration to her.

For all we know, she is the Rush Limbaugh or Michelle Bachmann of Nigeria. Nothing you or Comrade Grumpy have posted have given us any idea of a constituency or readership for this person in Nigeria.

[Why Syzygy]

60. wow..

No we didn't. We expected that you might have exercised your right to click the link and read the following >>

Jumoke is a Nigerian-American. She is the co-founder and co-editor of compareafrique.com. Seeing Nigerians of all tribes and religious affiliation together in her hometown of Oshogbo, in Lagos, Abuja, Kano and elsewhere protesting and controlling the destiny of their nation fuels her to do more and be better. She dreams about handing down a festival of slaps to President Goodluck Jonathan and Patience Jonathan.

...

I didn't investigate her 'readership' mainly because in order to even access the page I had to start up the VPN (virtual private networking) software. That's because Time Warner either blocks or provides no access to many pages on the www.

But it doesn't matter anyway. Because she's not part of your MARCH, she is surely insignificant compared to you.

[stevenleser]

62. That means nothing. I can buy URL SpeakingforAmerica.com and point that to my blog. See my #59 below

for other Nigerian comments.

[morningfog]

94. Hey, Steve Leser says most Africans love the US and Europe, so it MUST be true!

[Luminous Animal]

99. +1

[stevenleser]

117. And it is. And you have no evidence otherwise. nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

54. No, I mentioned that because you didn't seem to have a clue who the blogger was.

And, yes, I think someone who is actually from the country being discussed might have some insight about it.

[stevenleser]

55. I assumed they were from Nigeria. She offered no specific Nigerian insights. Just generic

anti-American and anti-West comments.

[Chan790]

142. Why?

Being from some place does not automatically confer value upon their opinion of current events there.

[morningfog]

93. "Most the folks?" How could you possibly be qualified to say that?

How many African nations did you poll? How many cities, towns and villages? How many Africans did you meet? I call, talking out of your ass.

[stevenleser]

110. Have you traveled to Africa? If the answer is 'No' as I suspect it is. You have nothing to say to me

about this.

What's more, you can see the comments I posted below about what real Nigerians have to say in response to this blogpost.

[morningfog]

118. "Real" Nigerians. Wow, you must be an expert on Nigeria and Africa!

How long did you study the continent again?

[stevenleser]

119. Before we even address me, you have no evidence or knowledge of your own on the topic.

You cant possibly have this discussion.

[morningfog]

123. Oh, you are the one claiming to be sooooo informed on most Africans.

You know so much about Africa. I mean, after all, you WENT there!

How long were you in Nigeria?

[stevenleser]

124. You have no knowledge or background to address the topic. nt

[morningfog]

125. Neither do you, steve. Neither do you.

[stevenleser]

126. You have nothing to base that on either. nt

[morningfog]

127. I have as much as you do in your assertion.

Are you always so self righteous and self-important and then so petty when called out on it?

[stevenleser]

128. Nope, I've actually been there and talked to people. You've asserted no knowledge at all. nt

[morningfog]

129. You've been to Nigeria? You've talked to people in Nigeria?

I missed where you made that claim.

[morningfog]

147. And another thing, steve. I have not stated my opinion on the writer's post.

I did take offense at your denigrating and dismissing their opinion as not that of a "real Nigerian."

I do agree with the writer to the extent that their is no US military role in Nigeria. I agree that the US military would only make things worse and it is not our fight. I don't think there is anything wrong with the international campaign to raise awareness and put pressure on the Nigerian government and the African Union. To the extent that campaign has or does morph into a call for US military intervention, it loses its purpose.

[Gravitycollapse]

122. How long has this blog post been out?

[theHandpuppet]

33. And we have Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin

So I guess they speak for all Americans and particularly American women?

[Comrade Grumpy]

40. Did I say that? No.

[stevenleser]

42. Yes, that is exactly what you implied. nt

[tkmorris]

166. Fer chrissake Steve, no it isn't.

"Oh hey, this blog post has some interesting things to say about what life is like in the major leagues..."

"WHAT DO THEY KNOW ABOUT IT?"

"Well, he did play for the Cubs for 6 seasons so I think..."

"SO DOES HE GET TO SPEAK FOR ALL OF MLB THEN? WELL, DOES HE?!?"

"..."

[LanternWaste]

164. Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

[Comrade Grumpy]

27. More from the OP, which, by the way is a blog post from a a Nigerian-American woman:

[Note: This was full of links that got stripped out when I copied and pasted. See the original for the links]

From the blog:

Last year, before President Obama visited several countries in Africa, I wrote about how the U.S. military is expanding its role in Africa. In 2013 alone, AFRICOM carried out a total of 546 “military activities,” which is an average of one and half military missions a day. While we don’t know much about the purpose of these activities, keep in mind that AFRICOM’s mission is to “advance U.S. national security interests.”

And advancing they are. According to one report, in 2013, American troops entered and advanced American interests in Niger, Uganda, Ghana, Malawi, Burundi, Mauritania, South Africa, Chad, Togo, Cameroon, São Tomé and Príncipe, Sierra Leone, Guinea, Lesotho, Ethiopia, Tanzania, and South Sudan.

The U.S. military conducted 128 separate “military activities” in 28 African countries between June and December of 2013. These are in conjunction to U.S. led drone operations which are occurring in Northern Nigeria and Somalia. There are also counter-terrorism outposts in Djibouti and Niger and covert bases in Ethiopia and the Seychelles which are serving as launching pads for the U.S. military to carry out surveillance and armed drone strikes.

Although most of these activities are covert, we do know that the U.S. military has had a destabilizing effect in a few countries. For example, a New York Times article confirmed that the man who overthrew the elected Malian government in 2012 was trained and mentored by the United States between 2004 and 2010. Further, a U.S. trained battalion in the Democratic Republic of Congo was denounced by the United Nations for committing mass rapes.

Now the United States is gaining more ground in Africa by sending military advisors and more drones, sorry, I mean security personnel and assets to Nigeria to assist the Nigerian military, who by the way, have a history of committing mass atrocities against the Nigerian people.

Knowing this, you can understand my apprehension for President Obama’s decision. As the Nigerian-American writer Teju Cole said yesterday, the involvement of the U.S. government and military will only lead to more militarism, less oversight, and less democracy.
Also, the last time military advisors were sent to Africa, they didn’t do much good. Remember #KONY2012? When President Obama sent 100 combat-equipped troops to capture or kill Lord’s Resistance Army leader Joseph Kony in Central Africa? Well, they haven’t found him and although they momentarily stopped looking, President Obama sent more troops in March 2014 who now roam Uganda, Central African Republic, South Sudan, and the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Consequently, your calls for the United States to get involved in this crisis undermines the democratic process in Nigeria and co-opts the growing movement against the inept and kleptocratic Jonathan administration. It was Nigerians who took their good for nothing President to task and challenged him to address the plight of the missing girls. It is in their hands to seek justice for these girls and to ensure that the Nigerian government is held accountable. Your emphasis on U.S. action does more harm to the people you are supposedly trying to help and it only expands and sustain U.S. military might.

If you must do something, learn more about the amazing activists and journalists like this one, this one, and this one just to name a few, who have risked arrests and their lives as they challenge the Nigerian government to do better for its people within the democratic process. If you must tweet, tweet to support and embolden them, don’t direct your calls to action to the United States government who seeks to only embolden American militarism. Don’t join the American government and military in co-opting this movement started and sustained by Nigerians.

[Jemon]

29. Shhh

Let's pretend they want us in their land.

[leftynyc]

159. Why are you pretending

they haven't asked for our help? That's simply not true.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/nigerian-president-asks-for-us-help-as-search-for-abducted-schoolgirls-goes-on-20140505-zr4s3.html

[stevenleser]

31. And you put forth her opinion as something that matters because it dovetails with yours. That's all.

There is nothing to suggest that her opinion reflects that of any amount of Nigerians.

[Comrade Grumpy]

35. Yeah, it's an opinion. What do you have?

[stevenleser]

37. A desire to help rather than exploit this to spout Anti-American rhetoric? nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

52. The humanitarian impulse is a good thing. The blogger has a different idea about what is helpful:

"Consequently, your calls for the United States to get involved in this crisis undermines the democratic process in Nigeria and co-opts the growing movement against the inept and kleptocratic Jonathan administration. It was Nigerians who took their good for nothing President to task and challenged him to address the plight of the missing girls. It is in their hands to seek justice for these girls and to ensure that the Nigerian government is held accountable. Your emphasis on U.S. action does more harm to the people you are supposedly trying to help and it only expands and sustain U.S. military might.

"If you must do something, learn more about the amazing activists and journalists like this one, this one, and this one just to name a few, who have risked arrests and their lives as they challenge the Nigerian government to do better for its people within the democratic process. If you must tweet, tweet to support and embolden them, don’t direct your calls to action to the United States government who seeks to only embolden American militarism. Don’t join the American government and military in co-opting this movement started and sustained by Nigerians."

[Why Syzygy]

36. You are

taking the word of the military industrial complex AKA western media, as an excuse, when you could actually consider other viewpoints.

"While Americans wring their hands over the abducted teens, they know nothing about the African strong men supported by their government who do the very same thing. American allies like Yoweri Museveni in Uganda and Paul Kagame in Rwanda have kidnapped children and forced them to become soldiers. Both are also responsible for the deaths of six million Congolese. Americans not only have to be better informed, but they must stop thinking that their government and its allies are good and beneficent when they are anything but."

http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/freedom-rider-how-not-%E2%80%9Cbring-back-our-girls%E2%80%9D

[stevenleser]

39. Nope, I am taking no one's word on anything. You cannot see past your agenda. nt

[Why Syzygy]

45. I have nothing to hide.

I hate war. Stirring up more excuses for it doesn't align with that agenda. Got me.

[stevenleser]

47. Hiding your agenda is not in question. It's obvious. nt

[LanternWaste]

165. Like kidnapping a few hundred school girls to sell?

"Stirring up more excuses for it..."

Like kidnapping a few hundred school girls to sell?
(insert distinction without a difference here)

[morningfog]

95. Oh,but you can speak for all of Africa, because you've been there.

[stevenleser]

109. Nope. And I never said that I did. Almost a nice try, but not quite. nt

[Gravitycollapse]

112. Except that she is literally Nigerian.

[stevenleser]

115. Apparently an expat Nigerian who hasn't lived there for some time. The real Nigerians responding to

her post actually living there now seem to disagree most vehemently.

[Gravitycollapse]

120. "The real Nigerians" - Oh, I'm sorry I didn't realize you were the arbiter of who is...

and who is not an actual Nigerian. Apparently actually literally being Nigerian, which she is, doesn't count as long as you've been away from the country for a while.

Nigeria is a country embroiled in deep conflict. Ex-pats are historically displaced people and the ex-pat community is an extremely powerful advocate for their respective home nations.

For instance, would you be so bold as you say Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn wasn't Russian because he was an ex-pat? Probably not because you most likely realize the absurdity of such a claim.

[stevenleser]

121. Yep. Real Nigerians living there as opposed to an expat safely behind her computer a continent away.

[Gravitycollapse]

130. "Real Nigerian: A Steven Leser Endorsement" plaques could be a good business for you.

You should get on that.

While you're out and about making arrangements for this future booming business, perhaps you could stop by a library and do some research on the national relevance of ex-pat communities (especially amongst post-colonial African countries). Better yet, you could actually travel to Nigeria before sending out these plaques just to give at least some semblance that you know what the hell you're talking about.

[stevenleser]

131. We would need one for you since you are defending her credentials. You seem fine dictating who is

enough of a Nigerian. You are hypocritically complaining when I do it.

[Gravitycollapse]

133. The difference is I acknowledge her authority on the subject of being Nigerian since she is...

In comparison to you who preaches authority on a subject which doesn't exist because you very clearly don't understand the dynamics of the ex-pat community.

[stevenleser]

137. And that is the other side of the same coin whether you admit it or not.

The other thing I have in my favor is that the Nigerians themselves commenting on her blogpost are calling her out for the same things I just did.

Kiah says:
May 8, 2014 at 2:33 pm
Here is a thought:

Dear Author, please volunteer yourself to be kidnapped and then wait on Goodluck or other Nigerians to save you.

You are probably sitting behind the safety of some computer screen typing nonsense while every hour that passes someone’s daughter is going through horror.

You probably also live outside Nigeria and so therefore are deluded into thinking Nigeria is a sane society. It isn’t! Forget Boko Haram. A society where human beings enrich themselves with monies meant for education, health of these children is not a sane one. The Nigerian govt cannot be bothered. If you say you are Nigerian, then you must know this.

If you have no contribution to make to help these girls, please shut up and get out of the way.

I don’t care how those girls are found. So long as they are found-alive.

Then we can come back and talk to about this nonsense you have written.

I am Nigerian and I have absolutely no faith in my country’s government or military or ability to protect any of those girls.

Reply
Kaybe says:
May 8, 2014 at 3:54 pm
Amen is all that needs to be said Kiah

[Gravitycollapse]

145. Yes, but of course, those are the good, real Nigerians endorsed by Steven Leser.

So they count. But she doesn't count because she doesn't have an official Steven Leser endorsed Nigerian plaque on her wall.

This is Western hegemony at play.

[morningfog]

138. You are going to great lengths to shit on an actual Nigerian's opinion.

Even going so far as to mention anyone could buy a site name and their opinion shouldn't be credited because they are an ex-pat. That is, respectfully, a steaming pile of horse shit. You have no right to assert that the writer is not a real Nigerian. What hubris! You should be embarrassed by your posts in this thread. Whether you agree with the writer is one thing. Disagree. But to dismiss their opinion as not authentically Nigerian? What the fuck, steve? What is you agenda here. Get a grip and realize you are not as important as you think you are.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

152. Give me a fucking break.

So you as a white, American, male get to decide how a woman who was born in Nigeria gets to identify herself? Do you realize how bad you're making yourself look?


Maybe she should go back to Nigeria and put her life on the line (while putting a halt to all the good work she does here) so Steven Leser the White, Male, American podcast pundit will take her seriously.

[jeff47]

32. Lovely salesmanship.

In 2013 alone, AFRICOM carried out a total of 546 “military activities,” which is an average of one and half military missions a day. While we don’t know much about the purpose of these activities

Actually, we do. Because they were public.

The vast majority were the evil, sinister military activities of....helping to train African soldiers.

Boy, it really doesn't sound as evil when you don't leave that bit out.

[stevenleser]

44. All this is for some people is another opportunity to spout Anti-American and Anti-West rhetoric

the details do not matter to them.

[Why Syzygy]

49. Sorry

to interrupt your flag waving to interject some rational thought.

[stevenleser]

50. Nope, not flag waving. Again, your agenda is forcing you to make erroneous conclusions. nt

[leftynyc]

160. Talking bullshit doesn't help your case

The Nigerian government HAS ASKED US FOR HELP

http://www.smh.com.au/world/nigerian-president-asks-for-us-help-as-search-for-abducted-schoolgirls-goes-on-20140505-zr4s3.html

Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that? And rational thought? Spare me - just keep listening to Greenwald and let the adults try and help these girls.

[OilemFirchen]

66. Can't count how many times...

posters with the same slice of functioning brain have told us that, while we intervene in the Middle East, or South America, or Eastern Europe, we are neglecting Africa, where real genocide is taking place. Where actual dictatorships flourish. Where millions of people die because of our disinterest.

The wormhole is, as it turns out, just a hole filled with worms.

[stevenleser]

68. Well put. When I did my special on genocide, I had a woman on from Rwanda.

And her perspective was that the rest of the world didnt care. That we could have intervened and just didnt.

She lost her parents and if I am not mistaken, 6 of 9 siblings. She and one of her sisters survived at one point by diving into a mass grave full of other bodies and playing dead. Both girls were under 10 at the time.

[MicaelS]

75. I believe her perspective, because she is right.

The rest of the world didn't care. It was just another, in a long line, of what appear to be self-inflicted catastrophes in Africa. Coupled with the fact it is often declaimed that "The US should not be the world's policeman", and many Americans said "It is not our concern." And Europe said, "Well if America isn't going to lead, then we sure as hell aren't going to send our people in."

I think Abubakar Shekau and Joseph Kony are exactly why armed drones are a useful weapon. I would not hesitate to pull the trigger on either if I had them alone in my gun sights.

[PoliticalPothead]

77. Looks like someone didn't bother to read past the first paragraph.

Although most of these activities are covert, we do know that the U.S. military has had a destabilizing effect in a few countries. For example, a New York Times article confirmed that the man who overthrew the elected Malian government in 2012 was trained and mentored by the United States between 2004 and 2010. Further, a U.S. trained battalion in the Democratic Republic of Congo was denounced by the United Nations for committing mass rapes.

[polly7]

79. I would prefer to see a UN force go in.

Last edited Thu May 8, 2014, 08:27 PM - Edit history (1)

Many in Africa are wary of the spread of AFRICOM as it is, and have seen exactly what this author is warning of. I don't understand why it would be so difficult to get a united force from many countries to do something, or why it hasn't been done already. Many of those poor girls are probably already sold or dead, it's beyond horrible and tragic.

[stevenleser]

83. Yes, or an African Union force, if they are up to it.

[polly7]

85. That too, steven.

That would be ideal.

[jeff47]

162. Nope, I did. That's where she started lying.

Hint: There isn't a publically-availble total number of covert actions.

[Why Syzygy]

34. Thanks for

making this point.

[Violet_Crumble]

155. What point would that be? I thought the article was rather myopic and stupid...

I've got a few questions:

1. What does the writer suggest happen to try to get those kidnapped girls back?
2. Has the Nigerian govt asked other nations for assistance? I thought it had...
3. Hasn't the assistance been offered so far been of a non-let's bomb the fuck out of Nigeria like it's Iraq or Afghanistan? I know my country's offered assistance, so it's not just the US...
4. Is the writer saying that any assistance at all from other countries is wrong and it should be all handled internally by Nigeria?
5. Why hasn't the Nigerian govt done anything before about Boko Haram? Does the lack of action hint that they either don't want to or can't do anything themselves?

I'm not an American, btw, but I've been very opposed to US interference in other countries, usually accompanied by claims of bringing democracy to that country. I'm just not seeing any hint that so far this is or could turn into anything like that. What I'm seeing some hints of is that if DU had been around during the genocide in Rwanda, some DUers would have been in threads boots and all insisting that the US not get involved, coz like that would have been so imperialistic and all...

Almost forgot something that will probably piss off just about everyone in this thread. Why does everything always have to be about the US all the time? Some people don't seem interested in what's happened to those girls unless they can put a US slant on it...

[Why Syzygy]

167. The US

Most of us live in the US. This is a US website. What other country slant can we put on it when we are residents of THIS one?

If you read both the links from the OP your questions are answered. I can't read it for you.

[Jesus Malverde]

48. Reminds me of KONEY2012

That brought US special forces to work with and prop up the corrupt government of Uganda. One of the most anti LGBT governments on the planet.

Years later our troops are still there because here ghost like Joseph Koney is still out there. I'm sure it had nothing to do with Ugandas resources.

[Agnosticsherbet]

57. A couple a hundred little girls get kidnapped for rape bait...

we should just stand back and say, that's too bad. Maybe it was the clothes they wore, or the fact that they wanted an education.

(the above comment was use of hyperbole and sarcasm, not an attack.)

I don't condone imperial over reach.

I don't condone wars for oil.

I do condone the US taking limited military action if we deem they can rescue these girls, because I don't condone standing back and letting them get sold into a life time of rape if we can do something about it.

And the notion that the US Military loves the hash tags is just silly. The US military does not set policy or decide on its own missions. Those are the civilians in Washington. If anyone, Obama loves the Hashtags because he is the person who has the power to order men into a possible conflict. No one else can make that decision.

The military will do what they are told.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

89. This ^ ^ ^

Best post in this thread so far.

[el_bryanto]

106. Well stated, in my opinion. nt

[Takket]

58. Translation:

"I prefer to let children be abducted by terrorists and subjected to lifetime of rape rather than accept American help saving them."

Whoever wrote that is a sick person.

[stevenleser]

63. Yes, see my #59 below, other Nigerians agree with you. nt

[Why Syzygy]

91. Try

reading the entire piece, especially when she tells us what we CAN do to help.

[stevenleser]

59. Here are some comments to the blogpost by other Nigerians. Spoiler: They don't agree

Fyne says:
May 8, 2014 at 2:05 am
Rethinking this article as one with very intimate knowledge about Nigeria, I can only say that at best this write-up is dangerously myopic. Anyone who is not a Nigerian nor accorded the constitutional rights of a Nigerian citizen cannot do anything about the missing girls? Really? “[T]he involvement of the U.S. government and military will only lead to more militarism, less oversight, and less democracy.” Nonsense! It is willful ignorance if not patently disingenuous to refuse to see Boko Haram for what it is. Not as primarily a Nigerian (or African) problem but a global one–another iteration of ever-expanding jihadist Islamism. There is legitimate criticism of the handling of Boko Haram by the Jonathan–more so the Obasanjo–administration in the handling of Boko Haram, but that at present is beside the point. There is much to be critiqued about American military expansionism in Africa, Asia, Europe or anywhere else, but that is a far cry from advocating isolationist Africanism that pretends that any person, country or continent can exist in 2014 as an island. Not only Americans but all peoples of goodwill can and should do all they can to help excise this cancer in the body politic of Nigerian-nay our global community. Dear Americans, your hashtags can help #BringBackOurGirls. You definitely will not be things any worse than they are.

Reply
Eloho says:
May 8, 2014 at 2:12 am
I am a Nigerian and I would just like to say if it were anyone of us that had been kidnapped by these terrorists, we would want any and everyone who could provide the help to do it. You can worry about the politics after the girls have been found.

Reply
Koko says:
May 8, 2014 at 3:43 am
I am a Nigerian LIVING IN NIGERIA and i say to you that if your daughter was among those kidnapped, this lovely piece of yours won’t exist. You would accept any form of help from anyone even if it meant giving everything else up that you hold dear. All we care about right now is that those girls are rescued as soon as possible, that is our number one priority. You need to be in the country to feel the renewed hope that has come to be since we learnt of the UK and US intervention, replacing our desperation, and sense of helplessness. We need help, and we are not too proud to admit it. Maybe one day when you have a child, you would understand. We don’t care about your political analysis.

Reply
Meg says:
May 8, 2014 at 11:11 am
LOVE THIS. so true

Reply
Babs says:
May 8, 2014 at 4:03 pm
Well Said Koko!! Jumoke, maybe if it were you or your daughter who was kidnapped you would have a different view. #BringBackOurGirls

[Glassunion]

64. But it does make our selfies look so much less narcissistic when we have

Something deep and profound to excuse just taking one more photo of me me me me ME!



The most photographed thing on the planet... Bathroom mirrors.

[babylonsister]

65. How can heightening awareness on a global scale be a bad thing? nt

[stevenleser]

69. It's not. The blogpost(er) and those touting it are so into their agenda they cant see anything else

Sad really.

[maddezmom]

70. Exactly

[FSogol]

81. True dat! n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

71. The world capital of 419 scams wants to lecture people about internet time-wasters?

Sure, whatever.

[Cali_Democrat]

73. :)

[stevenleser]

72. More comments to the blogpost from Nigerians. (Again spoiler: They don't agree)

Kiah says:
May 8, 2014 at 2:33 pm
Here is a thought:

Dear Author, please volunteer yourself to be kidnapped and then wait on Goodluck or other Nigerians to save you.

You are probably sitting behind the safety of some computer screen typing nonsense while every hour that passes someone’s daughter is going through horror.

You probably also live outside Nigeria and so therefore are deluded into thinking Nigeria is a sane society. It isn’t! Forget Boko Haram. A society where human beings enrich themselves with monies meant for education, health of these children is not a sane one. The Nigerian govt cannot be bothered. If you say you are Nigerian, then you must know this.

If you have no contribution to make to help these girls, please shut up and get out of the way.

I don’t care how those girls are found. So long as they are found-alive.

Then we can come back and talk to about this nonsense you have written.

I am Nigerian and I have absolutely no faith in my country’s government or military or ability to protect any of those girls.

Reply
Kaybe says:
May 8, 2014 at 3:54 pm
Amen is all that needs to be said Kiah

[rollin74]

74. that type of attitude is what enables Boko Haram

and other terrorists and slave traders to do what they do

[jberryhill]

76. Assistance doesn't mean "military intervention"

[Progressive dog]

78. Maybe Greenwald again,

it sounds as if the aim of the author is the same.

[seveneyes]

80. Nigerians need to keep religious nutjobs out of their government

And crack down on those that harm innocents.

[LeftyMom]

82. I'm deeply skeptical of using women as an excuse for military intervention.

Women have long formed the core of anti-war resistance, and the recent trend toward justifying wars by waving the flag of women's rights seems to be a cynical workaround to women's resistance. War brings rape, poverty, exploitation and death to women to whole societies of women, even if it may bring liberation to a few individual women.

War is not a tool of women's liberation, and anybody who tells you otherwise is deluded or a liar.

[stevenleser]

84. There are a lot of exceptions to what you wrote. Particularly in situations like the one we have now

For instance, in Reagan's invasion of Grenada, explain how that war "brought rape, poverty, exploitation and death to women to whole societies of women". Whether one agrees with that invasion or not, it did not cause those things. Nor did our bloodless intervention in Haiti under Clinton.

Whoever ends up using force in Nigeria, whether it is the US or EU or UN or African Union or the Nigerians themselves or some combination, it will be an extremely limited action. No one is taking over the state or holding any real territory.

[LeftyMom]

86. Wow, are you that ignorant of history or do you really believe that horseshit?

[Why Syzygy]

92. I like you

And I couldn't agree more with this >

War is not a tool of women's liberation, and anybody who tells you otherwise is deluded or a liar.

[stevenleser]

111. I gave specific examples proving you wrong. You couldn't respond. you lose. nt

[LeftyMom]

114. You gave examples too stupid to be worth addressing.

Afghanistan.

Stop exploiting women for imperialist horseshit.

[stevenleser]

116. You still can't address them. Calling them names still means you have nothing. nt

[LeftyMom]

132. You misread my point, gave two counterexamples which are terrible.

First, Grenada used a humanitarian concern to cover a conflict with less-than-noble intent (anti-communism and proxy warring with Russia and Cuba,) which was the whole point I was making. Nobody even counted how many Grenadans died, which again makes my point and not yours about the humanitarian value of "humanitarian" interventions. But it's good to know that you bought Saint Ronnie's justification, it says a lot about you.

Second, Haiti was a disaster and continued to be a disaster. If you ever have to point to HAITI FFS as an example of an intervention going right, you're scraping the bottom of the barrel so hard you've gone through the barrel and dug a trench where the barrel used to be.

Third, neither intervention was justified by a particular concern for women, which was the entire point of my argument.

Now stop wasting my time. You're badly outclassed and don't have the good sense to know it.

[stevenleser]

135. And you still cannot defend your assertion. The only question is whether you realize it or not.

Your assertion was "War brings rape, poverty, exploitation and death to women to whole societies of women"

I gave two examples where that was not the case. I explained why Nigeria was likely to be similar regardless of who eventually took action. Those examples were Grenada and Haiti.

You have never indicated how the actions taken in Grenada or Haiti brought "rape, poverty, exploitation and death to women to whole societies of women"

You made the assertion. It is up to you to prove how it did in those two cases. I am asserting that it didn't.

I also said that I took Reagans justification out of the picture because that was not material to your claim as I indicated above. But now you have lied and claimed that I bought into the justification. Or perhaps you just forgot. Only you know.

I'm now wondering if you have set a record for most amount of times being wrong and unable to defend your assertions in a short series of posts.

[LeftyMom]

141. You're seriously trying to claim those conflicts didn't increase poverty, exploitation and rape

for the local women?

They'd be literally the only two conflicts in human history that didn't.

Go read a damn history book and quit wasting my time.

[stevenleser]

143. Nope, one does not have to prove a negative. You made a specific assertion. Back it up or withdraw

it.

[morningfog]

140. Both.

[morningfog]

96. Do you support US military action in Nigeria?

[stevenleser]

113. See #79, #83 and #85 above. You didn't even need to ask. The info is there. nt

[erpowers]

87. Agree and Disagree

When I first started seeing the #BringBackOur Girls I wondered if it would actually accomplish anything. However, I do not think American military intervention would hurt the people of Nigeria. The benefits of American military help far outweigh the negatives. They (Nigeria) could get the girls back and and get help in dismantling Boko Haram.

[Why Syzygy]

90. Another...

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/commentary/la-oe-chayes-nigeria-corruption-insurgency-20140327-story.html

[Nye Bevan]

98. So, international awareness of this kind of atrocity is a bad thing now?

Last edited Thu May 8, 2014, 10:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Being insular and incurious has become a virtue?

I wonder whether the victims would think that spreading awareness about their plight is a bad thing?

[Gravitycollapse]

103. A contemptuously vile mischaracterization of the author's opinion.

In fact, the author makes it clear that awareness is a vital point in the subject but that the method of gaining awareness is extremely problematic.

How you managed to read that one should be "insular and incurious" into that article is beyond my understanding.

[stevenleser]

149. Exactly. And responses from Nigerians to her on her blogpost call her out on it. nt

[Gravitycollapse]

101. Twitter: Another outlet for "white man's burden."

[Capt. Obvious]

104. Have we tried sending them bibles?

[ProSense]

105. This is a wonderfully progressive message:

Dear Americans, fuck your solidarity because some people have agendas.

I mean, what an absolutely absurd response to empathy.

It heartens me that you’ve taken up the mantle of spreading “awareness” about the 200+ girls who were abducted from their school in Chibok; it heartens me that you’ve heard the cries of mothers and fathers who go yet another day without their child. It’s nice that you care.

Here’s the thing though...

"Here’s the thing though"?

[Cha]

108. Check this American in solidarity, PS.. #BringBackOurGirls..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024928092

[stevenleser]

148. The comments in response to that author on her blogpost from Nigerians tells the real story.

They politely are telling her to take her political agenda and stuff it.

[MADem]

134. Didn't the Nigerian government ask for US help?

And won't Nigeria take the lead, after receiving technical and other support from USA and other allies?

I don't think providing the advice and tech assistance that we clearly possess--and Nigeria does not--is "propping up a corrupt government." We can parse that the leadership sucks but those girls do not deserve to be renditioned into slavery and worse.



I don't think this is about "encroaching." This is about children being captured and abused.

[stevenleser]

139. Yes, but what does that matter when we can manufacture anti-American outrage?

You're such a stick in the mud when all of these self-proclaimed and self-righteous anti-imperialists are afoot having a good time of it!

[MADem]

144. I guess I am! I'll stand with Michelle and this young lady, though.

Much better company--at least I can sleep at night.

[stevenleser]

146. Same here. nt

[MADem]

150. This gent, too--he's hardly a warmonger.

[Nye Bevan]

151. He's obviously a tool of the US military industrial complex,

who is determined to use this as a pretext to destabilize Africa and steal Nigeria's oil.

At least that's what I infer from reading some of the posts in this thread.

[MADem]

153. There are a lot of threads that take the cake, and this one is certainly one of 'em! nt

[Matariki]

156. Meh.

People complain no matter what. Either the atrocity is being ignored or, now apparently, "awareness" and caring is somehow wrong.

[randome]

163. Welcome to DU.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Sometimes it seems like the only purpose in life is to keep your car from touching another's.[/center][/font][hr]