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150 Workers Die Each Day From Doing Their Jobs
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/05/08/3435734/workplace-deaths/
In 2012, 4628 workers were killed on the job, which made an average of 13 deaths a day, according to a new report from the AFL-CIO. An estimated additional 50,000 workers died from occupational diseases, or an average of 137 deaths a day. All told, an estimated 150 workers died each day last year due to working conditions.
The report notes that the fatality rate for people who died on the job hasn’t changed for the past four years, and the 2012 rate of 3.4 deaths for every 100,000 workers was about the same as the year before. Latino workers are at the highest risk of dy
ing on the job, with a rate of 3.7 per 100,000 workers and 748 killed in 2012, although their rate has fallen by 38 percent since 2001.
There were also a reported 3.8 million injuries and illnesses related to work in 2012. But the report notes, “Due to limitations in the current injury reporting system and widespread underreporting of workplace injuries, this number understates the problem,” and estimates that the real number is probably two to three times bigger, somewhere between 7.6 million and 11.4 million.
The estimated cost of all job injuries and illnesses from medical expenses and lost productivity comes to somewhere between $250 billion and $350 billion a year.
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Scuba
(53,475 posts)badtoworse
(5,957 posts)Occupations like heavy construction are inherently dangerous and even with the best Personal Protection Equipment ("PPE"
, the risk of death or serious injury can't be completely eliminated. The problem many times is that the PPE is available, its use is required, but a worker doesn't use it. I've worked heavy construction and I can't tell you how many time I've seen workers using loud equipment or working in a high noise environment without using hearing protection (I did that myself when I was younger, which is one reason I have tinnitus today). Same issue with not using fall protection when working at a dangerous height. A good safety officer will throw such a worker off the job, if the failure to use PPE is not noticed and the worker is killed or injured, whose fault is it?
I've spent my career in the electric power business and can tell you that safety is an obsession with power professionals. Every company at which I've worked had a well designed health and safety plan that included mandatory use of PPE. Plant workers were paid a bonus based on achieving operational goals and one of those goals was not having any OSHA Recordable or Lost Time Accidents. Plant workers and management both take great pride in their "Days Since the Last Lost Time Accident" with the stat prominently displayed and regularly updated.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)badtoworse
(5,957 posts)My opinions are based on personal, on the job experience. What are yours based on?
And one party still thinks we're over-regulated.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)Try again.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Or did you miss that part?
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)What basis do you have for asserting that existing regulations are inadequate and more are needed? What percent of accidents were actually preventable? Is there any correlation between number of imspections a jobsite gets and its rate of accidents?
You're using a broad brush on a situation that is complex and I'm not buying it. You should get some actual experience working in dangerous environments before you post like you know what you're talking about.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)More inspectors would help.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)badtoworse
(5,957 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)They should fire workers who refuse to comply with the safety protocols.
It turns out that 98% of crab fishing deaths were preventable by a simple and trivial rule change.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/07/27/pf/jobs/crab-fishing-dangerous-jobs/
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I've worked in many hazardous environments including offshore oil rigs and often the companies are very two faced about safety, they promote safety officially but unofficially if you can't get the job done while obeying the safety rules in what they consider a timely manner the worker gets blamed for being too slow or lazy.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)I pointed out that the situation is more complicated than the god of profit.
ETA: I don't dispute that some companies cut corners or look the other way on safety. I've seen that happen too (in heavy construction). I can't comment about oil and gas production, but I will say the power business is not like that.
Major Nikon
(36,818 posts)The employer has the responsibility of ensuring a safe workplace and that responsibility doesn't end by just handing out PPE.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)There is training in its proper use, LOTO procedures, planning and tailboard discussions before the start of a hazardous job and critique following the completion of the job. Even with that, mistakes still get made and safety rules still get broken. Sometimes an accident really is the employee's fault.
A few years back, we had an employee close a 500 kV switch into a section of grounded bus because a contractor told him he needed a circuit energized to test something. The employee was trained and knew (or at least should have remembered) that there are procedures to be followed when performing high voltage switching and arc flash protection should be worn. He ignored the procedures and didn't put on the arc flash suit. Fortunately, the circuit breakers tripped and de-energized the line before serious arcing or damage occurred. He could have been killed and he put other peoples' lives in jeopardy by his actions. I'm at a loss as to how the employer could have prevented this - the proper procedures were in place, the employee had been trained and had access to the PPE, but in spite of that, he acted thoughtlessly and jeopardized his own life and that of others. What are your thoughts about this incident?
BTW, this was the employee's second safety violation. After this one, he was terminated for his own and everyone's else's protection. IMO, this was the only thing the employer could do.
Major Nikon
(36,818 posts)Not following prescribed procedures can be the employee's fault if it's an isolated incident, but these situations are quite rare when the employer establishes a culture of safety that ingrains these things into their employees. I work in the same environment you are describing as a mid level manager, and I can't imagine an employee of ours so flagrantly disregarding basic safety procedures. I have no idea what it's like where you work. If the attitude of the company is, oh well he was trained and had PPE, but he didn't use them so we fired him, problem solved, they are simply insuring more incidents like these will continue to occur. They should be looking into what the safety culture is like that leads employees to disregard the procedures in the first place. Another question I would have is was the circuit locked out and tagged out as it should have been and was was the control of the key(s) to unlock it?
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)The EH&S people in the company report to the CEO and are not answerable to the plant managers. The employees are financially incentivized to work safely with part of their annual bonus tied to having no lost time accidents ("LTA" or OSHA recordables. As of when I left 5 years ago, that plant had gone 6 years without an LTA.
The incident triggered a lot more than just firing the employee who violated safety. The company's top level management got directly involved in the investigation and the operating procedures were carefully reviewed and revised. The biggest change was shifting the operating authority for the switchyard from the plant manager to system operations at the parent company level. The plant is no longer authorized to perform switching operations unless its under the supervision of system operations. (The switchyard was owned as part of an independent power production facility, but had bulk power flowing through it. Management realized that the people at the plant level did not have the resources or qualifications to control a large 500 kV switchyard and took appropriate action. I'd prefer not to identify the company in question, but if you're in the power business, you'd recognize the name immediately.)
Your point about LOTO is spot on. I was not involved in the actual investigation, so I can't say for certain whether the switch was locked out and tagged. If it wasn't, it certainly should have been. IIRC, the LOTO procedures were revised following the incident so there may well have been issue there.
Major Nikon
(36,818 posts)But the company I work for uses so much power that we actually have our own power distribution network. Above a certain voltage we have quite a few hoops that have to be jumped through before circuits can be energized or deenergized outside of an emergency situation.
Tying safety to pay is actually a very good way to motivate people towards a good safety culture and we have actually done this all the way down to the employee level. When people start to realize their fellow workers' safety can impact their pay, people start to take a lot more interest.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)People hurt themselves. I manage around 30 cooks. They are trained on proper knife handling technique, they sometimes get in a hurry and cut themselves. ..I have. ..and when I have, it has been my fault. Same with burns...I spilled a pan of boiling gravy down my arm a few years ago...again, my fault..
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)We finally get thread on workplace safety and you guys want to change the subject and blame the workers.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)that victims are never to blame with the oft cited "blame the victim" meme is demonstrably nonsense. To act as though work place accidents could all be avoided if the employer cared is also silly. The poster pointed out that among the many causes for workplace accidents are acts of negligence on the part of employees. ..The poster didn't say all or even most, nor did anyone else. If you wish to micromanage people's responses you should start your own blog with comment editing privilege, DU allows for open discussion.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Most accidents are the result of shoddy workplace design and poor established procedures.
Hey, who is micromanaging here? Looks to me like you are trying to micromanage my response. And I know for certain that I represent the workers of America. Who do you represent? Many of us are growing weary of right wing talking points.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)However, I've also worked on jobs where a contractor required wearing fall protection, but provided no means to tie off. Most contractors do the right thing, but some don't.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)There are contractors and businesses that cut corners and ignore safety, just as there are workers who do the same. As I initially said, the situation is not simple. The best situations is where both the company and the workers have safety as the number one priority. That is usually the situation in the power business, at least at companies where I have worked.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I've never worked construction but as a lawyer I've represented many workers injured in on-the-job accidents.
A real-life example: Three workers are on a hanging scaffold on the outside of a building, five stories above a Manhattan street. The base of the scaffold (what they're standing on) shatters in the middle. One worker is properly tied off with a safety harness and suffers no serious injury. The second (my client) is properly tied off but is swung like a pendulum against the side of the building, suffering some injuries. The third, although safety equipment was obviously available, hasn't bothered to tie off. He falls to his death.
Another real-life example: The window should be disassembled from outside the building, by a worker in a safety lift, who can be above the window and let the pieces he removes fall harmlessly to the ground. The safety lift, however, is stuck in the mud. The construction contractor has a financial interest in getting the job done ASAP, so, instead of waiting for the lift to be available, the foreman orders my client to work on the window from a ladder, which puts him under the work area instead of over it. A heavy piece falls down prematurely, clobbers him, and leaves him with total permanent disability.
In the first case, you can chant "blame the victim" all you want. You won't change the fact that the worker should have emulated the two others and taken a moment to put on a safety harness and secure it to the side of the building. If he'd done that he wouldn't have died. Most companies do have safety people who hector the workers about following the rules, but they can't be everywhere at once.
In the second case, by contrast, the accident was completely the greedhead company's fault.
There's also a third category, in which the employer and all the employees do exactly what they ought to do, but something goes wrong anyway.
What are the relative proportions? I have no idea. All I know is that anyone who blames only one side is pushing an ideological point of view rather than genuinely trying to understand the problem.
Response to Scuba (Reply #1)
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Scuba
(53,475 posts)Response to Scuba (Reply #8)
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Scuba
(53,475 posts)
ProfessorGAC
(64,852 posts). . .how does regulating better make it not capitalism?
It's still capitalism. More strict workplace regulations are not mutually exclusive to a capitalist structure.
And i agree with greater regulation, but you seem to be making two arguments and expect others to connect the dots when the dots are on different pages and in different books.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Regulation can make unsafe workplaces less profitable than safe ones.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)
Scuba
(53,475 posts)One would almost suspect our tent has grown too big.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)What a ridiculous accusation.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Hardly ridiculous.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)on DU who can see things that aren't there.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)Tell you what - you don't put words in my mouth and I won't put them in yours.
Logical
(22,457 posts)on the job?
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... we have the political will to require employers to make it safer. That includes staffing the inspection agencies to a reasonable level so that existing laws can be enforced.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)I believe it's second, right after fishing.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)Seem like those jobs, even with all the safety precautions taken, are still going to be risky.
That said, I found this bit very troubling. " . . . given that the agency has 1,955 inspectors to visit the 8 million workplaces under its purview, a workplace will only see a federal inspector once every 139 years on average and a state one every 79 years. There’s currently one federal or state OSHA inspector for every 67,847 workers." So it seems like it would be very hard to know if all the safety precautions are being taken. And knowing corporations, I'm guessing they aren't.
Bryant
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Last edited Fri May 9, 2014, 11:16 AM - Edit history (1)
http://money.cnn.com/2012/07/27/pf/jobs/crab-fishing-dangerous-jobs/Similar action could make a great many jobs safer.
Most safety inspections are performed by Labor and Industries (in my state) after an injury occurs.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)That's from the OP piece.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)
Recursion
(56,582 posts)From what I recall from BLS, that's the majority of work-related deaths.
Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)In some jobs people are going to die that is just the way it is
Deep sea fisherman fall over board or boats sink
Stupidity kill all the time
Equipment failures that cause accidents
Mother Nature
I am sure those of us with experience in dangerous jobs can spend days listing all the things that can kill someone at work
Not having enough OSHA inspectors is a contributing factor but far from the only factor contributing to workers deaths
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Regulations & mandated inspections to enforce them, and some foresight would go a long way toward preventing them.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)It's incumbent on the employer to do whatever it takes to assure that the workers are working safely, including firing those who refuse to follow safety rules.
This will happen when it's more expensive for employers to kill employees than it is to guarantee their safety.
Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)Last edited Fri May 9, 2014, 11:22 AM - Edit history (1)
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)The menus are completely impenetrable, it doesn't do the important function that it is advertised to do and it didn't include an instruction manual.
But I hold the company blameless because I'm confident the problem is just worker stupidity. 
I think it's odd how few people will accept that argument but will accept your argument that dead workers have only themselves to blame.
We're willing to excoriate companies that sell a substandard $40 battery charger, but hold them blameless for killing people.
It's important that companies produce good products. Less important is how many coffins they produce.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Wouldn't you feel more at home on Free Republic where they ofter promote the idea of worker stupidity.
Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #28)
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lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)They're doing it because they are getting mixed messages from the boss.
Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #49)
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jmowreader
(50,528 posts)Easy example: the OSHA approved way to clean a printing press is to wipe the rollers, inch the press forward with the button on the printing unit, wipe, inch, wipe...it works and it's actually faster than the old way, which is to set the press to run slowly before wiping the rollers. But guys are still cleaning on creep, and they're still getting hurt...because it's easier to not have to push the button over and over.
Throd
(7,208 posts)I can relate many incidences of installers getting killed or injured by cutting corners or just being very stupid.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)... the second incident is on him.
Throd
(7,208 posts)I get what you are saying about management setting the bar for safety, but my experience is that you can only protect people from themselves so far.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)You make some good points, but you also make assertions that don't reflect reality even at companies with admirable safety records. Before a worker would be fired for a safety violation, there would be intermediate measures, such as retraining, warnings and possibly suspensions. There is a big difference between a worker making a mistake and wanton disregard for safety. Companies take that into consideration in dealing with safety violations.
BTW, have you ever fired anyone? I have (three times) and it's not a step you take lightly. You are profoundly affecting a person's (and his family's) life and you only do it as the absolute last resort. Before you start firing people for making a first mistake, try looking a person in the eye and telling them they've lost their job. Regardless of how justified you are in taking the action, you won't enjoy the experience.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)So if someone working on scaffolding goes out and has five beers at lunch and comes back and falls to his death he has no fault in that?
Some people do things that put themselves in danger every day.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)...is the company similarly blameless?
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)It applies when there's a principal-agent relationship (here, the car company is the principal and it engages the imbibing worker as its agent). If a third party (car buyer) is injured because of something the worker did in the scope of his employment, then the principal is liable to the injured third party, even though it was the agent, not the principal, who did something wrong.
That doesn't apply as between the agent and the principal, though. The principal isn't liable to an injured agent if the injury occurred solely because the agent did something wrong.
This exchange brings up a point that's relevant to this thread: worker's compensation. In New York, and AFAIK in every other state, a worker who's injured on the job has no legal claim against the company or against a fellow employee, even if one of these entities was at fault for the injury. Instead, worker's compensation provides a set amount.
Worker's compensation has its pros and cons. The advantage for the worker is that he or she receives the worker's compensation payment automatically, without proving that someone else was at fault -- indeed, even if the injury was entirely the victim's own fault. The disadvantage for the worker is that the amount provided by worker's compensation is usually pretty paltry, much less than the worker would be awarded in a successful lawsuit. The worker won't actually receive adequate compensation unless there's some other party (other than the employer and fellow employees) that's at least partly at fault.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)Quality checks down the line should catch those issues.
Have you ever worked in a manufacturing environment where you are building things that are repetitive? Someone is always checking the work of the person who performed a task before them up to the final inspection with a checklist and someone who signs off on the final product.
AND!!
I never said the company was blameless, I asked the question if the worker who drinks at lunch has no fault in an at work injury is simple response to your statement that an injured worker NEVER has any fault.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)
WhiteTara
(29,692 posts)and F OSHA too! 
GOTV! We need to take control of our lives.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)WhiteTara
(29,692 posts)Because of course, I find the deaths of workers trying to make a living to be horrific and we NEED much OSHA more than before. Sorry you are sarcasm impaired, I certainly didn't mean to offend your sensibilities.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)Of course worker deaths are horrific and no one disputes it. That said, the problem is complex and pointing that out has spawned a lot of "you're blaming the victim nonsense".
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)So... he takes out his 1959 vintage hedge clipper, plugs it into the 50 foot extension cord that he's cut through 500 times and repaired with duct tape, and goes along merrily clipping his hedge on a nice spring morning with the grass dripping with dew.
"Click." No power.
So he calls me to complain that I broke his house and he can't clip his hedges. I try explaining, but...
Off to the garden center to buy a new clipper and extension cord then drive the 12 miles to Dad's house.
Too late. He opened the window and plugged his apparatus into an unprotected receptacle and got knocked on his ass.
92 years old. Survived D-Day and The Battle of the Bulge. Lucky this time. Just a jolt.
Fault? In part mine. When I installed the GFI I should have bought him new equipment and thrown the old stuff into the ocean. Mostly his though. When I suggested a new hedge clipper and cord he just laughed.
There's plenty of blame to pass around. I think we can all agree that reducing workplace mishaps is complex and needs to be addressed rationally.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)One plant had a table saw with no blade guard or anti-kickback pawls (safety device). I told them to put the blade guard and pawls back and they told me they had been lost. I had them cut the power cord on the saw and throw it in the trash with instructions to buy a new saw and not remove the safety features.
Many times, woodworkers will remove the blade guard on their table saw which makes it easier to use, but a lot more dangerous. We would not allow that at our plants.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)Years ago I was cutting an odd-shaped piece of lumber that didn't fit on my table saw so I removed the blade guard and anti-kickback pawls. Guess what? It kicked back and nearly took my hand off.
I was lucky to get away with a few stitches on the the back of my hand.
I'll never do that again.