Shit's Getting Real Out West

[struggle4progress]

By Charles P. Pierce on May 12, 2014

It's really time for the Republican party, at the local, state, and party levels, to man up here, or else to say clearly that individual acts of seditious lawlessness are part of the party's basic philosophy of government ...

Lyman said the much-publicized ride on the northern section of the 11-mile trail is less about the canyon specifically and more about public access to trails in general. "This is not about Recapture. It is not about ATVs. It is not politics, it is not economics," he said. "It is part of who I am. It is part of Blanding, and it is our culture, too. We don't not want to see groups come in and say these trails did not exist ... it was a thoroughfare since the mid-1800s"

... This is an elected official, not some racist wrinkle-bag like Cliven Bundy. If you vote for Phil Lyman, you are voting for sedition. If you are Fox News, and you celebrate him, you are celebrating sedition. It is long past time for the Republican party to fish or cut bait on this end of movement conservatism. Either support the seditious philosophy of local control, or oppose it. But they shouldn't be allowed any more to use its energy during election years and then walk away after the votes are cast ...

There far too much loose talk in respectable Republican circles about nullification, secession, and the crackpot theories of county government that used to be the exclusive ideological province of the Posse Comitatus movement ... Increasingly, there is no apparent fringe to conservative rhetoric, let alone any real limits. Somebody within that party has to step up and rein this lunacy in, or else embrace it publicly

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/utah-blm-battle-protest-051214

[spanone]

1. 'outlaws'

[pscot]

2. morons

[Mr.Bill]

11. *Morans

[Ligyron]

22. no,:-) they're Mormans.

[Hekate]

3. KnR

[mindwalker_i]

4. It won't happen

Simply, the Republican party does "believe in" anything other than what gets them votes. They're like a tapeworm that has dedicated 90+% of its organism to reproduction that there is little or nothing left over. Similarly, Republicans back restricting abortion because their (stupid) base goes for it. You think they care one way or another about gays? Yeah, they'll throw a piece of meat out every now and then, but the overwhelming majority or legislation they work on is to get more money to the rich so some will come back as campaign contributions. What that does to the country is immaterial.

[Dawson Leery]

5. The feds need to be sent in.

What these skinhead militia kooks are doing is criminal. It is bad enough they stole land from the public trust, they are now stealing private land from the Navajo.

[geardaddy]

20. This ^

They have no business being on Navajo land.

[Dawson Leery]

40. Remember when the Freemen in Montana

decided to annul the lease agreements they had with their neighbors? The freemen took the land by force.

At some point, Bundy and his mob with have to be dealt with. If they are not stopped, these bastards will come for your property next.

[Liberalynn]

35. +1

[AtheistCrusader]

6. So is this a fine type issue, or a jail type issue?

Didn't that giant meatball boy scout that knocked over a rock formation in Goblin Valley skate on it? Well, he was kicked out of the boy scouts, but otherwise, he ended up with no jail, right?

2 months after he filed for disability too, knocking over 170 million year old, 2,000lb rocks.

[struggle4progress]

7. Up to $1000 + one year for violation of trail closure IIRC

[AtheistCrusader]

9. Good. The enforcement folks could probably use the funding.

So nice of these morons to hold them a fundraiser.

[Kablooie]

8. If I don't like a law I don't have to follow it. That's the Amerikan way!

Freedom!
Freedom from law and order!

or to put it another way...

Anarchy!
Abolish the American government and live in a paradise of pure unadulterated Anarchy for all.

The new Republican motto.

[phantom power]

15. you can ignore laws you don't like... if you have a gun

and if you're white

[japple]

31. You got it! It's so easy to understand. eom

[okaawhatever]

10. K & R nt

[n2doc]

12. It's not about public access

People on foot, or on horseback, can go there. It is about those stinking ATV's. That needs to be said loud and clear.

[bvar22]

14. ATVs destroy OUR Public Lands.

Most states have given them generous dedicated areas for them to wreak their destruction to their hearts content,
but that isn't enough for them.
They want to ruin everything for everybody else.
Thy have absolutely no respect for the resources they are destroying.

ATV use is especially damaging in the arid West and SouthWest
where their tracks can remain for centuries,
and and do lasting damage to fragile water sheds.

If someone wants to turn his yard into a mudhole,
I'm ALL for it,
but when he insists that he has the right to do the same to OUR Public Lands,
I object.

[chrisa]

16. Just like Cliven Bundy and his cattle. I'm sensing a common theme.

I wonder if Conservatives will ever see the irony of calling themselves "Conservatives" when all they do is support rich arseholes who want to rip up the environment for profit? I think that particular lightbulb is dead.

[gejohnston]

43. Actually no,

the cattle and sheep compete for forage with native wildlife, which is why the state or feds depending who owns the land, regulate how many Animal Monthly Units can graze and charge for it. States generally charge more than the feds. Wyoming charges $3.54, Idaho charges $5.54 per AMU. BLM charges $1.35. ATV riders, and other users, don't have to pay shit outside of hunting and fishing licenses by the state.
ATVs and dirt bikes do far more damage than cattle, sheep, target shooters or anyone else.

[n2doc]

18. Totally agree. n/t

[gejohnston]

44. true,

and they don't have to pay shit, unlike ranchers.
I like ATVs and dirt bikes as much as, ummm, Bloomberg likes guns.

[Scuba]

13. But Republicans hate local control!

At least when it comes to fracking.

[Aerows]

17. They are a collection of dimwits. n/t

[ALBliberal]

19. Thank you

Struggle for continually posting these pieces on Bundy etc and these claims they make to our public lands as a New Mexican that grew up hiking and camping I am infuriated with their disregard and disrespect for laws that are in place to protect our lands from the likes of people like them! Ruining things for the rest of us!

[Sunlei]

21. Republicans will never 'man-up' and honestly say they want to steal all Americans public lands.

Can you imagine a country with ALL land owned by private people, Corporations.

Nothing for the future people of the USA to call THEIR public lands.
Nothing for our country to earn Gov.revenue from with even all our renewable resources like grass, trees, public hunting, land anyone can visit and enjoy.

[Doctor_J]

23. Not just lands - every single resource

No parks, no libraries, no public schools, no public roads, no public water. Everything.

[Trust Buster]

24. A gross over reaction.....

......the Right wing wants a clash with the government before the mid terms. Their provocations should be ignored. If a standoff happens, Republicans will begin Congressional investigations through the end of Obama's term. We must NOT fall into the trap they are trying to set.

[arely staircase]

25. so we should just suspend enforcement of law

So they don't get mad at us before the election?

[Trust Buster]

27. Exactly. A Ruby Ridge type situation favors Republicans.

It plays into their narrative. If we allow them to light a fuse, the lawlessness you see out West will be child's play compared to what it will create. Let their irresponsible behavior indict themselves.

[arely staircase]

28. meh

Those losers that pointed rifles at federal agents will be in jail long before November. They basically pissed the rest of their lives away

[Trust Buster]

29. I knew my post would open a bees nest. I don't agree. Prosecuting them would be a big mistake.

The Right will play them off as political prisoners. For now, I think the government should let these fools hang themselves. If we don't respond to their provocations, they will start fighting amongst themselves. We already saw evidence of that at the Bundy Ranch.

[arely staircase]

30. they will go to prison for a long time

happy ending.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

33. I disagree. They are an ugly unlawful group that needs to be prosecuted. I'm sure they have a

few supporters, and those supporters have guns that they like to threaten people with - which is another reason to make them accountable. These hoodlums are outraging a lot of different groups of people, and public opinion is certainly not in their favor. After the Bundy/Fox fiasco, I don't think Fox will be taking up their cause - but you never know.

[former9thward]

34. No one has been arrested.

And no one is going to "jail for a long time." #nottherealworld.

[arely staircase]

36. if you don't think the local US Attorney has empanled a grand jury by now, you are fooling yourself

there may or may not be sealed indictments yet but there will be. and they will be for major fucking felonies. they may take their sweet time to arrest so as to get the jump on these individuals and avoid another ruby ridge type situation. it may be when one of these fuckers is coming out of his local watering hole two years from now and gets to hear "FBI freeze motherfucker" but it is coming. The feds don't play the go ahead and point guns at us game.

[former9thward]

37. Oh, now it is two years.

So you have given your prediction plenty of time that people will forget about it when it never happens. Ok, nothing wrong with that.

[arely staircase]

39. they will, hopefully, do what makes tactical sense

two months, two years. I don't know. but when they least expect it.....

[Trust Buster]

47. Politically, the Right has the upper hand. It's best to let them overplay their hand IMO.

[arely staircase]

48. not a left vs. right thing

Last edited Wed May 14, 2014, 07:58 PM - Edit history (1)

rather a law vs. lawlessness thing.

[Trust Buster]

49. So was Waco and Ruby Ridge. How did that turn out ?

They'll screw up. We just need to give them space and time. They can't help themselves.

[arely staircase]

50. they turned out ugly and wrong imho

that is why I figure the feds will take these dipshits into custody at a time and place of their choosing.

[maindawg]

26. what a shocking and sad legacy

Our generation has left. The reason these ideas have become mainstream is the 24 hour propaganda machine that is fox news. One day soon, mainsteam republicans will support these terrorists and then we will see if our collective conscience can overcome the wall of hatred so constructed by the " conservative 'media.

[demigoddess]

32. republicans seem to think all the lands belong to them

I knew of a republican who refused to follow city laws and homeowners guidelines on his yard. Because it was 'his'. But he felt free to use my yard any way he pleased, usually without asking. Seems like just a smaller version of Cliven Bundy.

[FarCenter]

38. There is a basic conflict between rural and city people

Classic examples of how extreme this can get are:

- Ukraine in the '30s, where to feed the urban workers, the Red Army confiscated grain and animals and left the rural people to die of starvation.

- Cambodia under Pol Pot, where the rural people forced the city populations out into the fields and killed them.

[gejohnston]

42. It wasn't the "rural people"

It was the government.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_Fields

[FarCenter]

45. It was Khmer Rouge's agrarian ideology.

The Khmer Rouge's social policy focused on working towards a purely agrarian society. Pol Pot strongly influenced the propagation of this policy. He was reportedly impressed with how the mountain tribes of Cambodia lived, which the party interpreted as a form of primitive communism; as a result, those minorities received more lenient and sometimes even more favorable treatment than the urbanized "bourgeois" Chinese and Vietnamese.[15] Pol Pot wanted to remove social institutions and to transform the society into an agrarian one. This was his way of "[creating] a complete Communist society without wasting time on the intermediate steps" as the Khmer Rouge said to China in 1975.[16] The evacuation of the cities disproportionately affected Chinese and Vietnamese, who were not accustomed to agricultural work, segregated from Khmers in labor camps, and forbidden to speak their own language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge

[gejohnston]

46. led by someone who

grew up upper middle class, was educated abroad, and wasn't a farmer by any stretch of the imagination.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot#Early_life_.281925.E2.80.9361.29

[FairWinds]

41. Please be aware that "struggle4progress" [sic]

smeared Cecilly McMillan as a "drunk party girl".
Has he/she no decency?
apparently not

[arely staircase]

51. welcome to du

your opinions about a long term poster are welcomed with great interest.