Anyone else watching Frontline - The United States of Secrets?

[NRaleighLiberal]

Last edited Tue May 20, 2014, 11:31 PM - Edit history (1)

45 minutes in. I want to throw and break things. Just unbelievable - the chickenhawk party ignores warnings and we get attacked, and they embark on an endless game of CYA that continues to this day.

Seeing certain people again on my Teevee is making me nauseous....

Part 1

http://video.pbs.org/video/2365245528/

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Yes. Very interesting, very infuriating.

Michael Hayden seems to be an even worse character than I'd previously supposed.

Also, Alberto Gonzales is still a smarmy bastard.

[Aerows]

7. Alberto Gonzales has never stopped being a smarmy bastard

and an evil one, too.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. Gonzales was always one of my most unfavorite

of the secondary characters in the Bush Administration. He's just slimy.

[lpbk2713]

37. His selective amnesia made me want to throw things at my TV.

When I think of rethuglicans I think of assholes like this.

[BuelahWitch]

2. I am

[supernova]

3. I'm watching

and wishing I could have a go at some of these people in a boxing ring with a nuclear fist.

[Stallion]

4. Wow-John Ashcroft-Defender of the Constitution

Cheney/Gonzalez just side-stepped him. Interesting that there are numerous lifetime Republicans that knew that "The Program" was blatantly unconstitutional. But back to BENGHAZZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

[supernova]

5. You know you are in a wierd land

when John Ashcroft is the sane one.

[Aerows]

8. Amen n/t

[likesmountains 52]

6. This is really must see TV.

[jberryhill]

9. No, no one else is watching

Early data indicates the program is being viewed by only one person, so we can assume that is you.

[NRaleighLiberal]

11. do you really think that snarky response was necessary?

thanks a lot...

[BuelahWitch]

12. At least he kicked your thread

So the joke's on him.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

17. That was gratuitously snotty. What was the point of that snark?

[NRaleighLiberal]

10. as bad as we thought - and knew - the Bush years were...

in reality, they were worse.

[BuelahWitch]

13. Bush & Cheney belong in jail n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. They should share a cell with Hayden, Addington and Gonzales.

[supernova]

18. None of those three

still thinks they did anything wrong!!

I hate these people with a purple rage!!!!

[NRaleighLiberal]

19. the ease at which the lies fly is breathtaking....if I shake my head here any more

it will fall off.

[supernova]

24. Gotta love Gonzalez' circular reasoning

"It was legal because I thought it was legal." (Sigining the authorization document in the place of the AG).

I swear there is something mentally off about him.

[lastlib]

44. I have a SEETHING hatred for that entire regime!

They ALL belong in Hell!

[Dawson Leery]

26. Bush Jr. was the worst President.

[Eleanors38]

41. Confirms my belief: The FR is in power even when not in office.

[malaise]

57. Indeed

They should all be in prison.

[Squinch]

64. I think what I didn't realize was exactly how much they were eating their own. Those guys

and that woman in the NSA whose lives they ruined were all Republicans, weren't they?

I was thinking as I watched the bald faced lies in the service of power for its own sake: this is what evil looks like.

[woo me with science]

71. And the Obama administration has extended and expanded it.

Every outrage is just as or even more outrageous NOW.

[elias49]

16. I'm watching. Absolutely.

Some things don't change. Except the names. Now they're Assange, Snowden, Poitras, Greenwald. Trying to rein in an out-of-control intelligence industry.

[supernova]

20. Diane Roark

is an unsung hero according to this. She stood up to the administration and the NSA.

Also Edward Loomis

[NRaleighLiberal]

22. so Gonzalez sics the government on the leaders because they broke the law by

revealing that the Bush administration broke the law.

You can't make this stuff up....

[Octafish]

30. Remember Gonzalez had all these NSA spying powers when firing US Attorneys who didn't 'go along.'

It's like super powers in the hands of super crooks.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

21. Just appalling.

The way the dissenting NSA people were treated was horrendous - something you'd expect from the old KGB. I think I hate that slimy SOB Alberto Gonzales worse than ever.

[NRaleighLiberal]

23. Everyone on DU - every Democrat - hell, every American should be watching this.

[scarletwoman]

28. If I still had TV, I would watch it.

Sadly, I lost PBS when the brilliant PTB decided to kill analog TV and force everyone to move to digital.

Yes, I got my government coupon and bought the box, but digital signals only reach 55 miles, and I live 70+ miles from the nearest transmitter. So, no more free TV for me.

All that aside, I'm grateful that PBS is doing this. And thank you for posting about it.

And to pre-empt any well-meaning responses asking why I don't just watch it online; for the same reason that I live 70+ miles from a transmitter, I am also confined to dial-up for my internet access. I cannot do video on dial-up.

[Hestia]

48. You should be able to watch for free - PBS loads all new programs on their site. I've watched

several older shows online.

[scarletwoman]

49. Thank you, but as I already said, I'm on dial-up.

I once attempted to download a 3 minute youtube clip, it took 6 hours.

[TorchTheWitch]

52. Man, do I ever remember those days!

I feel for you. Have a friend or family member or someone with a high speed connection download it and put it on disc for you. That's what I used to do. I still have a big pile of blank CD's and DVD's from those days, and they still come in very handy.

[annm4peace]

25. Hard to watch.. another documentary on the crimes of Bush and Co.

many of us protesting and who have been watching alternative news sites. and listening to whistle blowers for the last 10 + years know all this. it does connect some more dots.

But what will happen? while any official be charged with crimes ?

will they reverse the policy of secrets ?

[NRaleighLiberal]

29. we know - knew we were right. And it sucks because it doesn't seem to matter...

there is no outrage. The bad guys get away with it, the good guys get punished.

It is simply extremely depressing...and distressing.

[annm4peace]

31. I've heard some of these whistleblowers in person

I can't imagine their heavy hearts and frustration.

in this Frontline show you can see the pain in many of their eyes.. in their speech

and you can see the socialpathic arrogance of Michael Hayden and Alberto Gonzalez

[KoKo]

40. It was a great watch but disturbing for the memories it brought back...

and what you say about the lack of outrage. To see those whistleblowers lives ruined while the rest of them like Hayden show no remorse.

I'm hoping next week when they focus on the internet and hopefully do more with Glenn and Snowden that maybe it will hit home with more people to wake up and do something.

Thanks for the heads up about the discussion here. I was worried no one on DU cared enough to watch it...and glad to see that some did.

[Eleanors38]

42. ...and the bastards want to let you know you can't stop it.

[hrmjustin]

27. I watched the second half.

[elias49]

32. The United Sates of Secrets is NOW.

And not one respondent to the OP cared to correlate what happened then with what's happening NOW.
Wow.
To the many posters who have professed outrage that one Edward Snowden did not stay in the US and run the gauntlet of the whistle blower may want to review what happened to Mr Drake, who blew the whistle a decade ago. And lost everything. Or Mr Loomis, former cryptologist with the NSA who appears now to be a shell of a man. Yeah. That's what happens in the US when you blow the whistle on Intelligence or Defense, the true puppeteers. You lose.

[NRaleighLiberal]

34. well stated. +1. n/t

[arthritisR_US]

60. What really pisses me off is the lack of whisle blower protection, in essence there is none :(

I understand Snowden running to another country for protection but the country he settled on flies in the face of hypocrisy.

[Eleanors38]

43. That about wraps it up.

[truedelphi]

45. Ssh! The truth make so many people uncomfortable.

And although many here were constantly decrying situations that occurred under George W and Cheney, they now support the same type of thing as it is the "D"'s Party leader in the WH who has replaced George W.

[TorchTheWitch]

54. I noticed that

And it pisses me off so much. It's clear that Obama went along with this crap, continued to keep it just as secret as the Bush Admin and is still going after Snowden though there's no question he's protected by the whistleblower law. Further, while campaigning he blew smoke up our collective butts that this crap was going to stop. What he and his administration have been doing is NO DIFFERENT than what the Bush Admin did. Yet not one word about that by anyone here while all the anger and disgust is directed at the previous admin that started it. Even worse the current White House after all these years knows perfectly well that it doesn't do shit to identify terrorists. Holder still went after Drake knowing full well that everything against him was fraudulent and already out in the public yet still shakes him down to plead guilty.

After this I don't want to here one more damn word from anyone here bashing Snowden or Greenwald or any comments like "oh, it's just metadata", and "your privacy is still intact since there's no names".

[nationalize the fed]

56. +10 terabytes

[underthematrix]

76. Snowden is not protected by the whistleblower law.

[TorchTheWitch]

79. what makes you think so?

Seems to me that what he did is exactly what the law was designed for.

[woo me with science]

70. +1000000000000000

[riderinthestorm]

33. Hayden's a weasel worded brainwashed wrongheaded idiot

Amongst all the other criminals

[Hissyspit]

35. Rerun at 3 am tonight. Did you watch the finale of "Person of Interest?"

Last edited Wed May 14, 2014, 01:10 AM - Edit history (1)

Amazing that they were on the same night at the same time.

[truedelphi]

46. Missed "Person of Interest."

And I want to point out that "Frontline" will be streaming over at the PBS website, so you don't need to stay up till 3Am.

[Hissyspit]

47. I will be up anyway.

[countryjake]

51. When we switched over to see the PoI finale, both of us kept remarking...

cannot believe both these programs are airing simultaneously! Uncanny.

I just checked to see if Frontline is being rerun up here tonight and it's not. Guess I'll have to wait to watch the second half of it. damn.

[arthritisR_US]

61. Is the series Person of Interest over or was it just the third season finale? nt

[Hissyspit]

62. It has been renewed.

It will be interesting to see where they go with it.

[arthritisR_US]

67. What I don't get is why that gal didn't shut down the computers she found when

she had a chance to...I can't imagine where they are going with it next year but I'll be watching

[adirondacker]

36. K&R. Bookmarking for later to watch. Thanks! nt

[annm4peace]

38. Show me the money.

I think they created the expansion of the NSA, to create more work for private contractor.

Look how much billions it made for others.

[NRaleighLiberal]

39. Money. Power. Greed. It's always the same.

[KT2000]

50. Agree

I can see where contractors could keep approaching the NSA with bigger ideas, newer technology and the NEED to increase surveillance. Now no one wants to be a weakling and pull back on this. Oligarchy at work.

[TorchTheWitch]

55. seems to me they created this slime to spy on everyone

in the world including US citizens and already knew it didn't have fuck all to do with catching terrorists.

[struggle4progress]

53. It's excellent.

[progressoid]

58. Rec!

[CanSocDem]

59. Three cheers...

...for Snowden and Greenwald!!!!



.

[Egnever]

63. So far I think it has been a pretty good production.

I had forgotten what freaking weasel Gonzales was.

[Lunacee_2013]

65. It's not on now were I live, but....

I did auto-tune it for the next time it comes on. My tv will automatically turn to PBS when it re-airs on the 18th. Thanks for the heads up. Any part I should *really* pay attention to, or is it the usual bush and co. lying their asses off crap?

Well, at least PBS still does news and actual reporting, although after learning that the Koch brothers donate, I now take most of what they say with a grain of salt....

[cantbeserious]

66. Devastating For Both Bush And Obama

eom

[adirondacker]

68. Video up on PBS website for those that missed it....

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/

[WorseBeforeBetter]

69. Reminder: Part 2 tonight! (n/t)

[NRaleighLiberal]

72. thanks...

[NRaleighLiberal]

73. oh my...this is really depressing. watching it now.

[Leme]

74. If you see a difference between Obama and Bush on this, please explain

other than one started it and the next continues it.

[NRaleighLiberal]

75. watching him trying to answer the question at the press conference was painful.

[Squinch]

77. DVR'd Part 2 to watch tomorrow. I'm steeling myself.

[mwrguy]

78. Obama will fix this

He's already started.

[Leme]

80. He can't fix a lot that has been done

Lots of Americans, 100% faithful and honest Americans, had their lives turned upside down, had the heck scared out of them by this data collection by the NSA. And those are just the ones we know about. 56,000 letters were sent out that no one can talk about. Who knows what problems those people have had.

[Savannahmann]

81. No he isn't.

He isn't, and he isn't going to fix it. Do you know what drives the powerful in Washington? It isn't that they are according to their oaths going to uphold the Constitution. It isn't about that. It's about not having the "blood on the hands". Not being blamed for it. How many used that excuse to silence the press in the first admin, and it scared those people plenty.

If we don't do this, we'll have blood on our hands from the next attack. Day after disaster, the Nat Geo documentary, The people interviewed all had the same answer. If there is something I can do to prevent an attack, I'm going to do it to save lives.

We already knew the Bulk Collection was not able to prevent one single attack. For five years now President Obama, the Constitutional Lawyer, has let it go on.

Bush was an idiot, we all said so many many times. Bush wasn't a lawyer, so Cheney ran around and found Lawyers who would say it was perfectly fine. Bush being an idiot at least gives him the partial excuse of ignorance. What excuse does President Obama have?

A child playing with a gun killing someone is a tragic situation that cries out for some action on the gun front. An adult playing with the same gun and shooting someone is a criminal action, because the adult is supposed to know better. A child is ignorant and doesn't understand the danger. But a Constitutional Scholar is supposed to know better, in fact, he said he was going to stop it, until he won the Nomination, and then he went silent on the issue.

I blame Bush Co. for starting it which is nearly unforgivable. I blame President Obama for failing to shut the NSA and PATRIOT ACT crap down, and that is unforgivable IMO. All the money I normally donate to Political Campaigns has gone to the ACLU, and will continue doing so. Apparently they're the only ones in this nation who actually give a shit what the Constitution says.