Are there issues where you think that the position you support would be a vote loser?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

I see a lot of people recommending different electoral strategies for the Democrats on DU.

Almost invariably, these people are saying that they think that the position that they themselves support would also be the one most likely to lead to electoral victory.

This suggests that people are having difficulty distinguishing between "I think" and "most people think".

So, a challenge: are there issues where you think that the policy that you yourself favour would *not* be the one most likely to lead to electoral victory?

[Squinch]

1. Much higher tax rates in exchange for much more security from social services.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. In the case of Elizabeth Warren...

I think polling shows that on every major issue, two-thirds of Americans are on the same side as she is. Fairly taxing the 1%, having the law apply equally to bankers, entitlements, etc.

Ah, there is one thing. Two-thirds of Americans favor Medicare for All, I believe she does not.

(Oops - read the OP as the candidate you support, not the position you support. Must. Have. Coffee.)

[RKP5637]

3. I like the idea of Medicare for All. To me, it is ridiculous that we have all of these flavors of

health care. There are so many variances and IMO resulting inefficiencies and higher costs.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Agreed.

I'm sure Senator Warren will change her mind, because she's driven by facts.

[RKP5637]

4. A cap on the maximum assets one can have! n/t

[TreasonousBastard]

5. Funny you should mention that...

I was at a group meeting last week about global warming and it was full of "we've got to..."

"OK, so what's the message?"

And I got a whole bunch of talking points everyone agreed with.

"No. That's stuff we agree to be true, but outside of here our audience mostly doesn't know much and gives a shit less. What do we say that resonates with them?"

I didn't get much response.

Had another meeting about something else last night where the same thing happened.

And that's the way it goes. The first problem a lot of us have is agreeing on the plan-- if we aren't in public agreement nothing gets done. We have to admit that nothing we plan will be perfect, so get something together and run with it.

The next thing we have to do is learn what sales, advertising and PR types know instinctively-- how to get the message out and when to shut up.

And it would pay to remember that nobody of any importance actually takes advice from DU. That Kerry campaign senior something-or-other that we chased off calling him an idiot should have been a hint. Unfortunately, when he took off, the reaction was "See?"

[vi5]

7. If communicated properly, not really.

I think I've always been a fairly moderate Democrat for the past 30 years I've been voting and active in politics. I can't think of one position I hold that would be considered extreme or that most polling shows a majority or at least close enough to a majority to not be a major vote loser.. And even on issues that my own personal morals differ from the mainstream (gun control) I'm not necessarily in favor of my position being law.

It's why I am so angry at the Democratic party leadership and the direction they've gone in. I've gone from being lambasted by hardcore liberals 15-30 years ago for being too much of a centrist, to being lambasted by "Democrats" for being too radical, purist, and a hard leftie for the past 15 or so, getting worse and worse with each year. The ridiculous thing is that I can't think of one single issue that I've changed positions on.

[Bluenorthwest]

8. How life really works: for years, moderates yammer that your position is a vote loser

then they are proven wrong and they yammer about what a vote winner it is. In the case of LGBT equality, you can simply do DU searches and find pages of 'moderates' explaining with great certainty that 'gay marriage is impossible, no candidate who supports it will win, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, civil unions are the only reality based solution, at least for a generation.'
People were telling me Obama would lose if he supported equality the very morning of the day he came out in support. '

[edhopper]

9. Every position I have is a vote loser

in some places, and a vote gainer in others. The question is what the net result. I think talking about the negative influence religion has on politics would not be popular.

[JustAnotherGen]

10. Yep

A paycheck fairness act.
Birth control on demand for all women/girls with the ability to have children regardless of marital or dependent status.
Closure of all charter schools.
Year round school.
Close majority of military bases abroad.
Nationalize all energy resources.

[bettyellen]

20. agree with most of that, sad that we allowed reproductive rights to become a hot button issue at all

[JustAnotherGen]

22. ITA on Reproductive Rights

Allowed to be a hot button issue!

[bettyellen]

23. I think they disappoint a lot of women for not standing up to this shit enough.

Was it a few weeks ago, some Rep made some horrible remarks about women who use birth control and who stood up to him- one female rep. She should have had a lot of company. It is not okay to let that stuff slide.

[boston bean]

11. Discussing inequality?

I've never thought so until recently. Here on DU with my fellow democrats, I've learned from many that the mere mention of white privilege, male privilege, sexism, racism will drive them from the party.

I don't really think so, but I've been told that.

[Armstead]

12. Only in Degree...My Liberal/Priogressive beliefs are more extreme, but they are basically mainstream

Okay,I can be a hothead (politically), and I have a basic of opinions formed over the years that may be considered er, a bit dogmatic.

But at base, I think my dogma is just a less patient version of what a majority of people believe if you strip away political labels and baggage.

I believe we ought to break up Monopoly Mega Corporations and Too Big To Fail Banking Houses. I believe it is proper for the public sector to protect truly competitive free enterprise -- and protect te public interest -- by making it impossible for any one company to own more than a certain share of any given market.

I believe there should be both Strong Public Control of products and services with an inherent monopoly (i.e. utilities) and Strong Regulation of the behavior of other business to protect consumers, workers and the overall public interest.

I'd personally like to see that happen fast and be substantial. That would probably seem like Scary Socialism to a lot of people if presented to the dramatic degree that I'd prefer.

But I also believe that a majority of average people agree with those goals in theory and would support candidates and party who clearly stand for those principles in a smart, mainstream way and act on them.

[wyldwolf]

13. there is a secret and silent majority of voters just waiting to rise up and agree with my positions

I've talked to them at my favorite hangout for beer and wings. They'll all be converging - millions of them - in DC next weekend (if it doesn't rain.)

[brer cat]

14. I am sure that is true, wyldwolf.

And all of them are voting for Carter and Nunn, turning GA blue by a landslide.

[wyldwolf]

15. you've met them, too??

[brer cat]

19. They are so secretive you have to look under bushes

and floorboards, but they are lurking around waiting for their time in the sun. They are counting on good weather for early Nov to come out en masse and overwhelm the precincts. I hear also that they have stocked up on sunscreen and sunglasses since they have lived in darkness for so long.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Sure. And, I'm willing to compromise...up to a point.

[dsc]

17. depends on what you define as a vote loser

If you mean unpopular in polls then being against the death penalty is likely one. Legalization of even hard drugs is likely another. Being against charter schools would likely be a third. Would any of those actually cost votes? I have no earthly idea.

[socialist_n_TN]

18. Sure. I'm a revolutionary socialist.....

There are lots of issues that would be vote losers in my core beliefs. For now anyway.

I'm not a big believer in profit. Although I draw a line at large corporates in the execution of this belief, philosophically I think profits are exploitation.
Unlimited abortion and birth control rights. Drug legalization for all drugs, with appropriate taxation to pay for treatment for anyone who wants it. Worker control of the means of production. No or minimal inheritance, as in a socialist state, everybody's basic needs would be provided. A planned economy, planned for needs FIRST, rather than profit. Shutting the DoD and replacing the military AND police with worker self-defense militias.

There are more, but that'll give you an idea of things that wouldn't fly with today's electorate. Tomorrow? We'll see.

[OutNow]

32. Worker control of the means of production

Yep, I want that too. And the other stuff you mention. And free education including college. Yep.

[Nye Bevan]

21. Yes. I believe that all prison inmates should be housed in safe, humane conditions,

with air conditioning when necessary, and an emphasis on rehabilitation for all but the worst offenders. And of course the death penalty should be abolished.

Totally goes against the grain of the "eye for an eye" mentality.

[Morning Dew]

24. I agree.

I also think that there should be better conditions for suspects being held pretrial. It is sickening to see, for instance, Joe Arpaio's unconvicted prisoners being treated like animals when their only crime may well be an inability to post bail.

[RobinA]

25. Absolutely

Immediate end to the death penalty.

End to drug prohibition

Mandatory national service

Just off the top of my head.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

26. Easy.

I think the profit motive should be entirely eliminated from any activity in which the primary motive is the health, safety, or wellbeing of humans. I'd be for booting the private sector from running prisons, hospitals, schools, utilities, and so on. Making money should not be a concern with any of these vital functions of society. Indeed, they are likely to be monetary losers, but to benefit society in other, non-monetary ways. To offset the increased revenues needed to perform such entirely at public expense, I'd then allow the government to go into competition with the private sector in luxury goods - reopen state liquor stores, for example. In states that had them, such stores were revenue generators, which lowered the taxes needed to run government, until they were generally sold off to private cronies of the Republicans in power.

[Mr.Bill]

27. Yes. My Atheism.

This country will elect a transgender president before they elect an Atheist one.

[BainsBane]

28. Of course

I've seen enough elections to know my views are seldom if ever articulated.

[Kalidurga]

29. Thanks for helping me start my list I stole some issues...

A paycheck fairness act.
Birth control on demand for all women/girls with the ability to have children regardless of marital or dependent status.
Closure of all charter schools.
Year round school.

1. I have heard people talk about paycheck fairness in regards to CEO pay. I would rather see it tied to the owners profits and thus making each worker a shareholder of sorts.

2. I agree on the birth control issue, but I would like to see a bigger campaign to reach young people and to set them up with goals, that has proven to be very effective in reducing sexual behavior and reducing teen pregnancy teens who want to achieve know they don't have time for a child or even the activity to produce one.

3. Yes on closing charter schools and I am not too keen on private schools either.

4. Year round school, plus add gym and the arts programs back to the curriculum.

Close majority of military bases abroad.
Immediate end to the death penalty.
End to drug prohibition
Mandatory national service

5. Close bases and make peace a priority and war only if war is declared on our turf, not a base or someother smaller interest, but an actual war against the United States.

6. The death penalty is murder by state, not cool.

7. I don't know about legalizing all drugs, but the war on drugs should have been over yesterday.

Now for my own.

8. Get the gobmint out of marriage. The only role of government should be to issue licences.

9. Decriminalize prostitution, but don't let it go on just willy nilly everywhere. Some countries allow for prostitution districts. We have some here, but the problem is that all women seem to be seen as fair game where that happens, cops harrass just about any female they feel like.

10. I don't want mandatory national service. I would prefer mandatory college for at least two years. If someone would rather go to a tech school that's ok too. I wouldn't mind if it was 4 years, but 2 would make me happy for now.

11. Free health care for at least the basics. Treatments that are likely to cost millions might give me pause.

12. Reparations, I don't know in what form. Just giving money would have a set of problems I don't even...But, some form of reparations are in order for people harmed by slaveries legacy, Indians, the decendents of interrment camp victims that includes the German, Italian, et al victims.

13. End the exemption on Churches paying taxes.

14. Tax the daylights out of corps that are destroying the environment and creating pollution.

15. National be nice to your neighbor day, if your neighbor lives a long long ways away, you can call them, you don't have to be nice in person.

16. National music appreciation day. Just for grins and giggles.

[struggle4progress]

30. There have been plenty of such issues. Abolish the death penalty! comes to mind

Many years ago, a bunch of us were sittin around beatin our gums about current politics, and we got goin on capital punishment

The political climate was rightwing: politicians were fallin all over themselves screamin about how important it was to kill people

Finally somebody said, I can't see how our governor supports the death penalty, given his stands on other stuff, and somebody else said, Well, maybe he doesn't: all his statements on the topic are pretty bland

So we had this idea, How about we just ask him to keep his mouth shut and not ever sign death warrants?

He got some letters: Your religious beliefs don't seem consistent with the death penalty. If you oppose it, I don't need to hear that, and you can throw this letter away and never respond: I'll be perfectly happy if you just never sign any death warrants

About six months later, I went to a state-wide abolitionist meeting, and there was a session on state politics. The report was, The governor has approached us with a proposal: if we don't put any pressure on him, he won't sign death warrants

There was a lot of discussion, mostly outraged: This isn't good! If he opposes the death penalty, he should say so!

I made the argument that he didn't know any better way to handle the current political situation and there was plenty of other stuff we could do productively that wouldn't call attention to him. I got shouted down

The leadership planned a campaign to put pressure on the governor. They got media coverage demandin the governor oppose the death penalty. So the rightwing politicians got interested in a possible controversy they thought might benefit them, noticed the governor hadn't signed any death warrants yet, and started gettin media coverage demandin he sign some

Here's what happened next. He signed a death warrant. But it was technically defective somehow, and the prisoner's counsel eventually walked into court and got it thrown out. After a while, the rightwing politicians started screamin again, and so he signed another death warrant. And strangely enough, it too was somehow technically defective, and the prisoner's counsel went back to court and got it thrown out too

I never agreed with him on everything, but that governor was a real smart man

My dear abolitionist friends wasted a lot of folks' time that year: they wasted their own time, demandin the governor take a stand he couldn't take politically; they wasted the governor's time, forcing him to figure out two different ways he could sign a death warrant without really signin a death warrant; they wasted the prisoner's counsel's time, forcin him to study two death warrants lookin for a way out

[laundry_queen]

31. My view is

Most people can be convinced of darn near anything. So I think most positions that I believe in would be vote winners so long as I had money and the right marketing company.

However, there are one or 2 views I have that would make me a pariah, even here at DU. And I'm not going to tell

[LeftishBrit]

33. Given the influence of the RW press...

I think that several of the positions that I support would currently be vote-losers. In particular, halting and reversing the benefit cuts; and better treatment of asylum seekers.

That is in the UK. Unfortunately, I think that even more of my positions would be vote-losers in the USA.

Sometimes doing the right thing risks electoral defeat. Ending Jim Crow in America was one of the best things that the Democrats ever did; but it evidently cost them a lot of support in parts of the South.

[Shandris]

34. Virtually every position I support wouldn't get votes because they're too...

...radical, too far-reaching. But usually not radical enough to align well with our far left radicals, either, because of my anti-authoritarian bent.

I'm quite willing to admit I think most of my ideas would be clobbered in an election. I still think we'll have to come around to them eventually, but not yet.

Among them:

1. Basic Income
2. Complete rewriting of the entire criminal legal code, including mandatory sentences, the nature of prisons and their purpose, lengths of rehabilitation, and prescriptive social measures
3. A complete rehauling of the entire legislative process, including a Fundamental Statement of Intent on any and every bill that supercedes technicalities
4. A focus on emergent technologies and an approach to resource distribution with an eye towards post-scarcity
5. A fresh look at liberty, its meaning, and how it applies vis-a-vis government and the social compact, including the option of removing oneself from it (this ties into the next section)
6. A good, hard look at other forms of currency than money, including social capital, and an open clearinghouse on ideas involving non-monetary currency (aka Reputation Systems of Exchange)

Yeah, there are lots of ideas...but good luck getting people to vote on any of these.