Manmade Or Natural, Tasty Or Toxic, They're All Chemicals … By Dr. Mark Lorch

[HuckleB]

The terms 'chemical' and 'poison' have become interchangeable in the popular consciousness and as a result the whole subject of chemistry has become tainted with unpleasant connotations
http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2014/may/19/manmade-natural-tasty-toxic-chemicals

"Chemicals are bad, right? Otherwise why would so many purveyors of all things healthy proudly proclaim their products to be "chemical-free" and why would phrases such as "it's chock full of chemicals" be so commonly used to imply something is unnatural and therefore inherently dangerous?

On one level these phrases are meaningless – after all, chemicals are everywhere, in everything. From the air that we breathe to the pills we pop, it's all chemicals. Conversely, many would argue (the Advertising Standards Agency included) that we all know perfectly well what "chemical-free" means and those who rail against the absurdity of the phrase are just being pedantic. Even the Oxford Dictionary defines a chemical as "a distinct compound or substance, especially one which has been artificially prepared or purified."

So "chemical-free" products are adhering to a recognised usage.

But pedantry and definition aren’t really the point. The point is that every time anti-chemical slogans are used people are being misinformed. The implication is always that the terms "chemical" and "poison" are interchangeable. This is a perception that permeates our subconscious to the extent that chemists themselves have been guilty of exactly the same lazy language.

..."


------------------------------


Good stuff!

[Warpy]

1. Yes, I love to remind people that they're eating a poisonous gas and metal that is so volatile

it bursts into flame when exposed to air, with every meal. We call it table salt and we'd die if we didn't have it in our diets.

I also love pointing out that those big, scary chemical names in their bread are mostly vitamins, cyanocobalamin especially tends to freak them out, "It's got cyanide in it?" It's B-12.

The sad part is that most of them are uneducable.

[HuckleB]

2. +1,000,000 ... 000

[intaglio]

3. But you forget they all have different vibrations

Even the water.

Just posted something on this to the Skeptics board Harmonzed H2O

[HuckleB]

6. That's interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing!

[Romulox]

4. OK...everything is chemicals. It doesn't follow that chemically engineered foods are healthy.

That's a leap in logic, to say the least

[HuckleB]

5. "Chemically engineered foods?"

As the article notes, all food is chemically engineered.

[Romulox]

44. That's a silly argument based on semantics. Eat cyanide instead of an apple, if you want. nt

[HuckleB]

48. You're still not making any sense at all.

[Romulox]

51. Nonsense. It's all chemicals. You must be a "chemophobe" (sic) to question such a plain fact. nt

[HuckleB]

53. I get it. You're angry.

That doesn't mean you're making any sense at all.

[hobbit709]

55. Crunch up enough apple seeds and eat them instead.

[MineralMan]

11. What are "chemically engineered foods?"

Really. Can you provide a definition?

[Drew Richards]

23. Twinkiees :)

[Humanist_Activist]

25. Like those produced by photosynthesis? Oh wait, that's ALL food.

Unless you eat some deep sea crustaceans that feed of chemosynthesis bacterium, of course.

[Romulox]

42. Um, who is the "engineer" in photosynthesis? God???

Thanks for the "science" lesson, at any rate.

[Humanist_Activist]

57. Evolution by Natural Selection.

Put "science" in scare quotes all you want, all food that we eat on Earth is ultimately derived from the Sun through photosynthesis, plants are the base of ours and every other surface ecosystem's food chain. So when you talk about "chemically derived" food, as if that is supposed to be scary, you just illustrate your ignorance of the processes that occur around us every day.

[HuckleB]

59. +1,000,000 ... 000

[Arugula Latte]

7. I would say most of us know this.

We didn't evolve to eat highly processed foods that are laden with preservatives, nitrates, pesticides, etc., though. Surely you're not arguing that a Twinkie or a hot dog or a diet soda are just as healthy for you as an organic apple? Because that is the issue, not that all are made of "chemicals." That's a straw man argument.

[HuckleB]

8. Did the author make any such claim?

Of course, claiming that an organic apple is any more healthy than any other known apple is highly suspect. Oh, and reading through any thread at DU about vaccines, GMOs, food, supplements, alt-med quackery etc... one can see there are far too many people who do not understand this.

[Arugula Latte]

9. What's the big reveal here, though? We all know this.

[HuckleB]

10. No, we don't all know this.

Chemophobia is often on display around here. Look at all the DUers who buy into the "Food Babe," and her anti-science crusades.

[KT2000]

13. Chemophobia

as I recall is a word made up by industry to denigrate people who want rigorous testing of commercial chemicals and those who even question the safety of certain chemicals. I believe it was that organization composed of corporate medical officers and once headed by a woman who was a medical officer for a large chemical company - ACSH.
Otherwise known as propaganda - name calling.

Chemophobia is not a concept based on science.

[HuckleB]

14. Actually, it's something people who care about science "made up."

It's astoundingly common.

[KT2000]

15. No -

it was made up to counteract the claims of people who were sickened by chemical exposures and the call for adequate testing of commercial chemicals. It has been adopted by industry and free market folks.
It is not a term used in scientific papers - it is a word used for marketing, lobbying and propaganda.

[HuckleB]

36. Please stop pretending.

Thank you.

[Archae]

16. I have seen chemophobia, taken to it's most absurd lengths.

A fear of chemicals.

One of the newsmagazine shows years ago showed a woman who locked herself in a little shack in the woods, she claimed to be "allergic" to just about everything.

Her words and actions during an interview showed just where the "allergy" was, yes. All in her head.

Just being inside her isolation shack with a reporter and cameraman outside was causing her to break out, have shortness of breath, etc.

[KT2000]

17. what you saw

Last edited Wed May 21, 2014, 02:34 PM - Edit history (1)

was a real condition. I did not see that show in particular but I have seen some real hatchet jobs, especially one from John Stossel. It is easy to make fun of people with that condition.
There is quite a bit of literature on this condition. You may wish to look at the work by Claudia Miller MD (U of TX), Nicholas Ashford, PhD (MIT), Martin Pall PhD (WSU), William Meggs MD, Iris Bell MD

Here are some of the features: the nasal passages have tight junctions, meaning the cells are close together to prevent bad things from proceeding past the nasal passages. Certain chemicals can damage the tight junctions (such as acids), thereby leaving space for bad things to proceed.
They proceed through the olfactory bulb into the brain. Several researchers have focused on the kindling effect where the initial injury is "aggravated" by subsequent exposures. This causes an over-firing much like a person experiences with seizures.
Another feature is reduced blood flow to certain areas of the brain after exposure. Different people show different areas affected.
Since the injury is in the brain, it can trigger any number of problems - sympathetic nervous system, parasympathetic nervous system, digestion, heart (atrial fibrillation is common), skin disorders and immune dysfunction.
It is not an allergy it is a brain injury. It is a feature of Gulf War Syndrome, 9/11 responders, the oil spill in the Gulf and many other situations where people were very over-exposed or exposed to lower levels over a long period of time.
It is a tough way to have to live and the ridicule from others makes it nearly impossible for some to bear. Suicide is not uncommon. I hope you will learn more so you can show kindness to people in that situation.

[closeupready]

31. This thread is really about GMO's and Vermont's labeling law.

You wouldn't necessarily know that. You're welcome.

[HuckleB]

41. No, it's not.

Try again.

[MineralMan]

12. Life without chemicals is impossible.

Chemical reactions are the very stuff of life.

Understanding the metabolism of life isn't necessary for most people, but life is chemistry and chemical reactions

[Romulox]

45. Yes, but life without BROMIDES is quite possible. Try it some time.

bro·mide noun \ˈbrō-ˌmīd\
: a drug that makes a person calm

: a statement that is intended to make people feel happier or calmer but that is not original or effective

Full Definition of BROMIDE

1
: a binary compound of bromine with another element or a radical including some (as potassium bromide) used as sedatives

2
a : a commonplace or tiresome person : bore
b : a commonplace or hackneyed statement or notion

See bromide defined for English-language learners »
See bromide defined for kids »

[scarletwoman]

18. That's about as intellectually honest an argument as saying "Everything is made of atoms, so...

atomic bombs are natural!"

[mathematic]

19. This is about "safety" not "natural"

It is precisely this common misunderstanding that makes the OP's point. The safety of a chemical cannot be judged by whether it occurs naturally.

[RobertEarl]

20. It can be judged

Through evolution until only recently, the world evolved with natural chemicals. With the advent of man-made chemicals has come many dis-eases because our bodies had not evolutionally developed a defense to those chemicals.

[Romulox]

47. Saying "everything is chemicals" doesn't speak to safety even a teeny tiny bit. Zero. nt

[KT2000]

21. +100 n/t

[Humanist_Activist]

26. That's the naturalistic fallacy, and just as foolish. n/t

[KittyWampus]

30. This isn't about being intellectually honest- it's about how a few DU'ers get off

on supposedly debunking things they think are "woo".

It's a form of intellectual myopia and the behavior is akin to bullying.

[laundry_queen]

35. Exactly. nt

[HuckleB]

37. It's about being pro science.

Evidence matters. There's nothing myopic about it.

[DemocraticWing]

22. "A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids"

People thought putting fluoride in the water supply was a Communist plot too.

[reformist2]

24. What happened to just saying "all natural"?

[Humanist_Activist]

27. Its a meaningless phrase, what is natural and what isn't is not so clear cut...

not to mention it gives the false sense that "natural" equals "safer".

[AceAcme]

34. True that. The term was deliberately corrupted by corporations.

Shades of 1984. Natural at one time did have meaning. But it was used so broadly by marketers that it eventually lost all relevance to shoppers who actually want clean food free of GMOs and synthetic corporate chemicals -- as opposed to the chemicals that nature -- in it's wisdom -- generates in living plants and animals.

[Silent3]

28. That's just another meaningless oversimplification

Thinking "natural = good, artificial = bad" and fear of "chemicals" go hand in hand.

[mucifer]

32. Yup Hemlock is natural.

It's still probably better to eat less pesticides on your fruits and veggies.

[KittyWampus]

29. Very atomistic view of reality. So when anyone talks about "subconscious"

in this manner, they are WAY out of their depth.

Edit- and that the irony doesn't come across to the materialists, especially those who get off on what they think is "debunking" is hilarious.

[HuckleB]

39. That's a whole lot of nothing you wrote there.

Irony does not mean what you think it means.

[Leme]

33. pedantic much?

pe·dan·tic


/pəˈdantik/


adjective

adjective: pedantic





of or like a pedant.

"many of the essays are long, dense, and too pedantic to hold great appeal"


synonyms: overscrupulous, scrupulous, precise, exact, perfectionist, punctilious, meticulous, fussy, fastidious, finicky

[HuckleB]

38. Why does the OP bother you?

[HuckleB]

40. It's very interesting to see so many replies by posters who don't want to recognize this.

Hmm.

[Romulox]

46. B12 and cyanide are BOTH chemicals! Just take the rat poison, you chemophobe!

This is one of the dumbest threads ever on DU.

[HuckleB]

49. Just because your only response is a bizarre red herring...

... does not make this thread dumb.

[Romulox]

50. Your OP is a child's observation dressed up as profundity. nt

[HuckleB]

52. Sorry, but it addresses something that happens frequently.

Including here at DU. Going ad hominem on it doesn't change that either.

[Leme]

56. observation dressed up as profundity. nt

[hobbit709]

54. Dihydrogen monoxide is a necessity for life, but too much can be fatal.

[Humanist_Activist]

58. That's true, everything in moderation, except ricin. n/t

[Rex]

60. Whatever you do...don't tell people they are made out of chemicals!

I've never understood the total buffoonery of hating on chemicals. Funny how the body would not work at all, if not for chemical compounds in our brain and body.

Calling all chemicals poison is stupid, BUT some chemicals ARE poisonous to the body!

I dismiss people that treat chemicals as bad agents of the world, almost everything you drink, eat, think, do or say is influenced by chemical compounds and reactions in/to the body.