Elliot Rodgers reported to have exhibited "severe paranoia" and "heard voices."

[pnwmom]

This most likely isn't the case of some entitled rich kid who decided to go out and become a mass murderer.

This appears to be yet another failure of the mental health system and public safety system, in which a mentally disturbed young man, probably with schizophrenia, found it way too easy to purchase assault weapons.

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/05/ucsb-mass-shooter-refused-psychiatric-medicines-parents-in-hiding/

His parents, Hollywood director Peter Rodger and his ex-wife, Li Chin, are now in hiding, staying at a hotel, as they try to come to grips with what their son is believed to have done.

“Elliot has always been troubled and couldn’t express himself,” the source tells us.

“His parents did everything they could to help him. It seemed that Elliot suffered from extreme paranoia and heard voices, but it was impossible to properly diagnose because he just wouldn’t talk. Having been prescribed psychiatric medication, Elliot refused to take it.

“Before moving from L.A. to Santa Barbara, he had been seeing a mental health professional for years, and his parents got a team of doctors for him to continue to see after his move. Their hearts break for the victims and their families.”

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. Although it does seem paradoxical that this is yet another case of a relatively privileged kid...

with severe mental issues who should have theoretically had access to the sort of help and treatment options that all the people who are like "how about we do something about mental illness, eh?" seem to think is more of an issue than guns (see also: Adam Lanza)...who slipped through the cracks anyway. So yes, guns are far more a problem than mental illness is, honestly.

[pnwmom]

2. He had access to a "team" of medical health professionals.

But it is much harder than people think to get people committed. Just recently, police officers visited him after his relatives filed a warning about him, and the police said he appeared to be fine.

[Spider Jerusalem]

3. Because police are qualified to make that assessment, of course

[pnwmom]

4. Even judges only deal with what is presented to them in court.

A friend of mine tried to become the guardian of her schizophrenic mother, but the woman was always able to present herself in court as a rational person -- even though she was completely unable to manage her life.

[Straw Man]

34. Just curious.

So yes, guns are far more a problem than mental illness is, honestly.

How would you go about making that case to the relatives of the three people that he stabbed to death?

[1000words]

5. Yet, some of DU's "behavioral scientists" feel differently.

Well, I'm stumped.

[pnwmom]

6. Maybe the problem is that there is an overlap of SOME symptoms between people

with Aspergers and people on their way to a young-adult diagnosis of schizophrenia. And there are probably some people who have both.

[1000words]

8. Agree

While there were many factors at play here, including the issues of misogyny and access to firearms, it is now an established fact this young man had severe mental stability issues. This now becomes a much less cut-and-dried exercise regarding motive and general personality assessment.

[Major Nikon]

7. Just when they had it all figured out too

[JJChambers]

10. Be careful, apparently advocating changes for mental health is a sore subject

You'll have people lined up waiting to tell you how the mentally ill never hurt anyone. The truth is our mental healthcare system is broken. We need to fix it. Now!

[Spider Jerusalem]

27. As sore a subject as advocating for changes in gun laws?

Because, you know, guns don't kill people. Mentally ill people with guns kill people. Right?

[adirondacker]

11. Tragic for all that are involved. I wonder how societal stability plays on the effect of "triggers"

for these events to occur on such frequent occasion as they have in recent times.

[Triana]

12. I am still aghast that anyone diagnosed with mental illness

as he evidently was -- was still able to buy and possess firearms.

[pnwmom]

13. I know -- but it happens all the time. n/t

[Jenoch]

14. He was recieving treatment,

but apparently was not actually 'diagnosed' as being mentally ill. It takes a great deal of legal work to get someone committed as 'mentally ill'.

[VanillaRhapsody]

30. No he WAS diagnosed....he refused treatment.....he was prescribed Risperidal...

refused to take it...

[moriah]

32. Diagnosed with what? Only diagnosis listed has been Asperger's.

And Risperdal is sometimes prescribed for irritability related to ASDs.

[VanillaRhapsody]

33. schizophrenia.....what you would expect Risperidal to be prescribed for...

that is not an SSRI.

Risperidone (/rɨˈspɛərɨdoʊn/ ri-spair-i-dohn) (trade name Risperdal, and generics) is an antipsychotic drug mainly used to treat schizophrenia (including adolescent schizophrenia), schizoaffective disorder, the mixed and manic states of bipolar disorder, and irritability in people with autism.

[moriah]

37. I never said it was an SSRI, but please supply your link he was a diagnosed schizophrenic.

Thank you.

[Lurks Often]

46. Because no one diagnosed him as a danger to himself or others

If he had been considered a danger to himself or others by the medical professionals who saw him, either they or the family could have taken steps to have him committed, at least temporarily.

If a judge had ruled him incompetent, then he, presuming CA submits the information to NICS, would have been flagged as ineligible to buy a firearm.

However it seems that based on the time line, he bought the firearms over a year ago, possibly before he started to exhibit the warning signs that he was mentally ill.

A rather significant percentage of the American population suffers from some degree of mental illness and present no danger to themselves or others, are you really suggesting ALL of them be prevented from buying a firearm? Are there any other rights you are willing to take away for the same reason?

[LisaL]

15. Source tells us? Us being radar online? You find this credible?

He wrote the whole manifesto without once mentioning hearing voices.
But he explained clearly what his motivation was. And hearing voices wasn't it.

[Abq_Sarah]

26. He was prescribed Risperidone

But that was probably because they were operating under the assumption he was somewhere on the Autism spectrum. It's also prescribed for schizophrenia. He looked it up online and refused to take it.

As for the part about his refusal to open up and talk, he was likely aware enough to understand that if he was actually honest with his therapists, parents or anyone else, they would have thought he was batshit crazy and that would have been a big blow to his ego.

[LisaL]

28. Well he sure seems very open in his manifesto.

Never talks about hearing any voices, though.

[VanillaRhapsody]

31. They don't always know they are hearing voices...

[bettyellen]

40. They don't usually know they're imagining the voices-

So he would probably just be describing hearing people talk. If he was cooperative.
And that is the big if here, because that's frequently not the case.

[LisaL]

42. But anonymous source talking to radaronline would know it?

Please.

[bettyellen]

45. Of course someone could have leaked that info

It happens. Has nothing to do with of Elliot knew or not. Other people around you can figure it out.

[Jenoch]

16. What 'assault weapons'?

The term 'assault weapon' was a manufactured term for semi-auto rifles with detachable magazines. (Many semi-auto rifles commonly used in hunting qualify using this criteria.) Does it now also apply to semi-auto handguns?

[LisaL]

17. His weapons were three regular handguns.

They are not considered assault weapons, and no bans would apply to them.

[Jenoch]

22. They were purchased in California,

which has the most restrictive laws on semi-auto handguns. Short of banning semi-auto handguns, and going door to door confiscating semi-auto hanguns in California, assuming they are all 'registerd', I don't see what can be done to stop a mentally deranged person intent in murder. Oh wait, maybe a change in mental health laws would help.

[Agschmid]

18. And guns... Don't forget those.

[beevul]

19. What "assault weapons"?

"This appears to be yet another failure of the mental health system and public safety system, in which a mentally disturbed young man, probably with schizophrenia, found it way too easy to purchase assault weapons."

He used a handgun, not any rifle of any kind, with the exception of the three he killed with a knife. Too easy to get knives too?

His guns were ALL California legal.

His guns were registered.

He used limited capacity magazines.

He went through background checks for every single one.

California has the strictest gun laws in the nation.

And those laws were sold to the general public based on the implication that they would prevent tragedies like this one.

And they didn't.

[LisaL]

20. Well, if he got his hands on actual assault weapons, it could have been worse.

[beevul]

24. Well, that makes it ok to post falsehoods...

Well, that makes it ok to post falsehoods and factually untrue information.

I've got a great idea:


How about everyone use this tragedy to press for universal background checks and gun registration, even though CA has them already and the shooter passed them and registered his guns.

[LisaL]

29. Considering i haven't posted any "falsehoods" you are addressing this to a wrong person.

[Bad Thoughts]

21. There is still good reason to combat misogyny

Even if this man had impaired judgement, it is important to combat the real voices that scapegoat and objectify women.

[moriah]

25. I know two people who have been committed involuntarily, and helped with one of them.

I've never refused hospitalization when it became obvious it was needed, so no involuntaries for me. I could purchase a weapon if I chose to, they cannot anymore. I used to own a firearm but when I had a very severe depression I sold it in order to avoid having that temptation too close by.

There are processes when people refuse help. But they are convoluted, and there's a reason for that (it *should* be difficult to deprive someone of their liberty without their consent). In the case I helped with, we were lucky that the background check on the firearm he was attempting to purchase took two days to come back (it came back clean 2 hours after they finally got the order served on him and had him in custody). It wasn't to hurt anyone else but himself, but I still didn't want to see my friend dead. The other person is court-ordered to take his antipsychotics after being involuntarily committed by his family when he had a psychotic break -- he ran off into the woods because the voices were telling him to hurt his lover and he didn't want to do it. He nearly died from exposure, and later said if he'd been able to find a weapon he'd have harmed himself to make the voices stop.

That's the far bigger danger about mental illness and firearms -- suicide. The mentally ill, if they hurt anyone, hurt themselves FAR more often than they harm anyone else.

There are also processes for people who refuse to take antipsychotics if he actually was schizophrenic and had experienced a violent episode before. Haldol decanoate can be administered by court order once a month, there are other antipsychotics in decanoate form as well.

This story you quote is from a friend of the family, and nothing has been released about his medical records other than a diagnosis on the autism spectrum disorder. I'm not a shrink, but the things he's written don't seem to show evidence of formal thought disorder. Instead, he showed quite a bit of planning and forethought, organization and motive.

I believe he was sick in the same way that Ted Bundy was sick, not the same way Andrea Yates is sick.

Make sense?

[Egnever]

35. Great post and this part makes me very sad

That's the far bigger danger about mental illness and firearms -- suicide. The mentally ill, if they hurt anyone, hurt themselves FAR more often than they harm anyone else.

A determined person will find a way but a gun nearby can make it far too easy for a moment of weakness to slip through.

[nomorenomore08]

36. Fantastic post. That knowledge and perspective is certainly needed here, at the moment.

"I believe he was sick in the same way that Ted Bundy was sick, not the same way Andrea Yates is sick."

Good way to put it. Especially given Bundy was a savage killer of women himself.

[pnwmom]

38. People were saying that the Colorado movie theater killer couldn't be schizophrenic

because his effort took too much planning. . . .and yet he was a diagnosed schizophrenic under treatment.

I think it is possible for a highly intelligent schizophrenic to execute a series of actions that are logically connected together -- even while his larger belief system is disordered.

I agree that we don't have enough information yet to know Rodger's situation exactly -- and we might never learn it, if the family keeps the information private.

[moriah]

39. I can't find anything saying he had a diagnosis of schizophrenia either, only ....

... that he was seeing a psychiatrist who did extensive research in it. Not that he was on meds, etc.

Since Holmes is pleading insanity, we'll see more of his medical records later. But what's more troubling to me is that the shrink actually thought he was a threat and did nothing. The same way that even though Rodger's parents sending the police after he posted some of the videos that I've seen (I know those were about a month ago) and they did nothing either.

[pnwmom]

41. He wrote that he'd been prescribed psychotropic drugs and refused to take them.

What do you mean the parents did nothing?

They'd been providing him with a team of therapists for years and they called the police on him. He was refusing to cooperate and refusing to take prescribed meds. What else was the family supposed to do?

The reason the psychiatrists had trouble assigning a definite diagnosis, according to one account, is that he was refusing to talk with them. That would make it harder.

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-isla-vista-main-20140526-story.html#page=1

He was prescribed psychotropic drugs but declined to take them, he wrote.

[LisaL]

43. The specific drug he mentioned is also used to treat behavioral problems in people with autism.

[moriah]

47. I guess I need to define my pronouns, and we were talking of two cases.

The Colorado Movie Theater Killer's case has no medical records released and no definitive diagnosis of schizophrenia or prescription of medication in the media.

In the California case, they (the parents) called the police, and they (the police) did nothing.

[pnwmom]

48. You're right -- there was no "definitive diagnosis" in the media.

But he was under long-term treatment by a psychiatrist who specializes in schizophrenia.

[Jefferson23]

44. I have not been able to locate information as to when he bought the weapons and ammo.

Obviously there are many questions that remain to be answered. Did the parents ever
attempt to have him committed, the police are not mental health professionals and I
am curious as to the meaning their visit had with the shooter.

If the parents are willing to cooperate with the investigation it would be helpful
to have them release info from the team of professionals who worked with him.
There may be legal challenges to that information, as it does not appear the parents
were legal custodians of their son. Which brings more questions, did they attempt to
do so, before he became of legal age or at any point where they claim they were
concerned about him.

Also, if they did not finance their son's move and did not provide him a vehicle they
would have had a bit more control of his comings and goings..there are many questions
here.