General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI joined Discussionist but I haven't posted and I won't be doing so.
It's pretty vile. I'm not quite sure why Skinner et al would construct such a thing. It's filled with hate and bigotry and ignorance and my guess is that those elements will burgeon and crowd out any sort of real discussion of.... anything.
It's a frame that lends itself to being used by bigots.
eridani
(51,907 posts)We can tease the wildlife if we want, and maybe all the trolls will go over there so we won't be bothered with them.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)ellie
(6,928 posts)Why did anyone think this is a good idea?
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #2)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)The OP of the first link -- the one that made the comment you claim is racist -- says in a later post that Republican friends tell him such and such. So, in other words he's relaying a statement made by others. That's really no different from the parade of "My RWNJ {insert family member} said {insert disagreeable statement}!" posts we see here.
The third link isn't endorsing Sterling but opposing the fine from the NBA, which -- legally and ethically -- could be argued. Even the ACLU defends the speech rights of the KKK despite the latter's violent past. Sterling may be an ass but nothing he has done rises to the level of the KKK.
The second link? Yeah, I could probably get in one helluva fight with that guy.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)work for pregnancy and childbirth. There are male gold diggers too, that want to live on wife's salary and put his salary in the bank for savings or buying his toys.
That happens too, men controlling women's reproduction by forcing them to abort, but that doesn't get talked about.
Control is wrong either way.
Ms. Toad
(33,992 posts)or many of the posts in this one?
The difference is not really the presence of bigotry - it is whether it is expressly stated, or stated with an air of innocence that no one could possibly object to. Frankly, I'm no fonder of the latter (DU's style) than the former. And - when it is express, it is a lot easier to get hidden.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)It's either a diversion or... hell if I know. It's as if you need to drop 20 points in IQ to properly participate.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)I'd say more like 50 or so. It's awful.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)greatauntoftriplets
(175,729 posts)Thank the gods.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)had 3 accounts.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,729 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)I dont understand how so many here get their tights in a wad about any slight difference of opinion
pintobean
(18,101 posts)can be worse than personal attacks for some. I don't get it either. It's always been like that here, though.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)A good idea in my view.
cali
(114,904 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Are put under surveillance here? It's a good idea!
seaglass
(8,171 posts)without fear of PPR from DU unless they admit they are trolling DU and there is no doubt about who they are:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10133832#post20
Skinner (59,433 posts)
20. DU members will not get banned from DU because of something they post on Discussionist.
I can only imagine one exception: If someone on Discussionist admits that they are trolling Democratic Underground -- and if we have rock-solid proof that they are in fact same person -- then we will ban that person from Democratic Underground as an admitted troll.
Response to seaglass (Reply #50)
TBF This message was self-deleted by its author.
TBF
(32,004 posts)because I misread. The admin will have IP addresses on both sites so they definitely could see if someone were posting from the same computer. It would probably take a pretty egregious case for them to act on it like that.
seaglass
(8,171 posts)trolling is but I would be surprised if a current DUer admitted it.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)DU sees one IP from the 6 devices in my house - the one external IP the cable company gives my router.
Problem is even worse if the post comes from some large-scale network.
TBF
(32,004 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)Then we'll know who to harass when they come here, we'll know all about them.
Exciting, isn't it?
But seriously, I was hoping it would become popular so all the trolls and astroturf and flocks of issue vultures would head that way instead of here. I come here mostly for news and intelligent & diverse discussion about news.
It's always been noisy, but now, since our opinions became important enough to need shaping, it's gotten very annoying. Whereas before you could have good conversations with people all over the planet, now it's all ego duels and flame wars and groups arguing over which sources are acceptable, like we are children who need to be told what we can read. People have become circumspect and guarded. They censor themselves. I know I do, and it's mostly because I don't want to listen to all that disingenuous, vehement, and yet empty "argument".
7962
(11,841 posts)House of Roberts
(5,162 posts)But I respond when I see a clear purpose to right a wrong. I used to spend time at Think Progress, until they adopted Facebook, and it turned into a technical cluster-you-know-what. Before that I was at Huffingtonpost, until pre-moderation after the 2006 elections killed conversational posting.
Lurk awhile at Discussionist. Flag the RWNJs. Study their rhetoric. Delve into their weaknesses. It will strengthen your resolve. Know the enemy. Then attack where they are weak.
I've read you here. You have good logic and honor. Honor is important to me. I can't show it here, but I use the symbol of the Klingon Empire for an avatar at most places. Though fictitional, Klingons learned to live in peace and honor with the Federation, in the Star Trek genre.
cali
(114,904 posts)honor is important to me too. It's a funny dated kind of concept- or at least the word is- but it plays a big role in my thinking and my life. Thanks.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)- This little one should work, right-click it:
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)I got banned from Huffington for asking why it was all Palin, all the time (x years ago) and they did not like that. Gave up on Think Progress, likewise when they did the Facebook thing. Never have done Facebook, never will.
I'll just stay here.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)I say that because I went to Facebook from Livejournal when my friends did. If they move to Twitter, I shan't follow.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)A place to truly hone my skills but I just don't really have the time.
yuiyoshida
(41,818 posts)I get enough racial bigotry on other websites. You can only take being called a "Chink" so much before you have to give up and go.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)There might as well be a big 'Not Welcome' sign for minorities.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)People actually call you a "chink"? That sucks.
yuiyoshida
(41,818 posts)I told him "Chink" refers to Chinese and I am not Chinese. He blatantly told me "All y'all look alike to me". YOU can't reason with STUPID.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Nonetheless, it would be nice if people like that could travel overseas and find out what it's like to be a minority. Maybe that would make them change their tune.
yuiyoshida
(41,818 posts)They have to stay home and defend America's boarders from all these foreigners who are coming here!!!
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Anyway, I'm about to leave for another event. I wonder how many "Yu's" I'll meet tonight?
yuiyoshida
(41,818 posts)I would love to follow another Yui!
heaven05
(18,124 posts)figures for that site. Disgusting vile place to try to be civil. It's all out ideological warfare there. I have met the enemy....and they are everything I knew they were and worse. geez I have fun picking at them. I guess that makes me kind of sadistic huh?
yuiyoshida
(41,818 posts)offensive words? No, keep picking at them, maybe they will get it. But...I kinda doubt it.
7962
(11,841 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,818 posts)Its not being directed at them,...so what if someone gets insulted, they will just say "Grow a thicker skin or don't post here!"
7962
(11,841 posts)If not, then the same level should be applied to the rest of us!
Its a shame.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)They would call you that...
yuiyoshida
(41,818 posts)I have heard it dozens of times. Fortunately not to my face... but on the internet, absolutely.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Especially because I have a soft spot for people of Asian origin and tend to get along with them. No idea why. I'm Caucasian myself.
yuiyoshida
(41,818 posts)there are just a lot of ignorant people in the world, and some who like to push people's buttons just for their enjoyment.
Response to cali (Original post)
Anansi1171 This message was self-deleted by its author.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)You can actually get in the trenches and spar with the enemy. Some of the older DU members who were kicked off have come over (Taverner).
And the jury system isn't as stifling.
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)ProfessorGAC
(64,852 posts)One with which is wholly disagree.
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)The broad-brush smearing of gun owners is the very definition of bigotry - regardless of your denial.
Many gun owners are Democrats - some even liberal. Many of those that aren't are perfectly reasonable. Yet the "redneck yahoo" gun owner is the only one you see depicted in anti-gun cartoons.
EDITED TO ADD: For the most part, even these yahoos aren't the ones killing innocent folks. So why are they being demonized? Obvious culture war.
ProfessorGAC
(64,852 posts)You go right ahead.
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)And ever so predictable.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)And it is not like many gun owners did not leap for the cameras and say stuff like "your dead kid does not trump my rights?" right. There may be some fine, law abindign gun owners, but the NRA has gone ahead and embraced the "I am gonna do whut I want and F you" element that those cratoons do indeed, illustrate.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Beware, everyone.
Shampoobra
(423 posts)"Infekce zablokována," Serbian for "infection blocked" appeared over the following warning:
URL
hxxp://thebigslice.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Lapierre-616x462.jpg
Infection
URL:Mal
Avast alerted on it at the DU link, and again at my attempt to visit thebigslice.org's home page.
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)4now
(1,596 posts)and have absolutely nothing better to do with your time....
Nevermind I still wouldn't waste my time there.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)That's just my guess, at least. OTOH I've had some good tech and sports discussions there; DU has groups for both (particularly tech) but I always like to see those expanded.
MADem
(135,425 posts)It does the same thing, though--serves to collect a bit o'crap at times.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I just mean that's what we call it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)A "honey pot" is a large scale latrine, 55 gallon oil drums cut in half with a board with crapper holes on it. Sometimes enclosed, sometimes not. You remove the boards and shelter when the things get full, and (quite literally) light the shit on fire.
It's also a term for a smaller "facility"--a literal "pot" or a bucket that one uses to do one's business in.
Nothing to do with any particular gender--everybody poops, after all! And pees, too!
In the spy game, there's something called a honey TRAP--but that's a bit different. My cite also uses the "pot" reference as an alternative, but most people who have seen one of those pooping "pots" would never use the term to talk about a Mata Hari or a Gorgeous George type situation...
bemildred
(90,061 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)We love our slang but it is easy to misundrestand.
And then there is the old "Permanent Latrine Orderly" designation from Sgt. Bilko.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)been burning the contents since I returned here in 69, lot more 'content' these days.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)Nastiest name I can think of for a port o potty.
MADem
(135,425 posts)It's sure as hell necessary.
Where would we be without the Ed Norton's of the world?
LeftishBrit
(41,203 posts)There are some right-wingers there, mostly of the right-libertarian variety, who really do want a discussion; and I tend to be more patient with them on a site like that, then when people try to push such views on DU: perhaps because in the former case I feel less as though they're actually trying to convert me to their views.
And I've met some good left-wing people; some who are definitely current DU-ers; some I'm not sure.
But there are certainly some people who are using it to express bigotry: perhaps the same people who contribute to the Hate-Mail-Bag here. I mostly avoid those threads. I alerted on a particularly bad post, and was told that someone had alerted before me, and it came back 3:4 to leave.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Which is why I haven't seen it.
PoliticalPothead
(220 posts)Now it just seems like every other thread is bigoted nonsense. And alerting on it does no good because apparently a lot of people think thinly veiled racism counts as civil discussion.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)It's a nice diversion when DU gets to taking itself too seriously.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I like the song threads and 'fun' forum. There are some nice people, I don't take the trolls seriously, I know they're going all out to see how far they can get .... and most are getting shot down pretty easily. I do hope the site is a success for the owners.
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)If you like the song threads, you've probably seen me without realising it's me! I'm one of the nice people! But before DU I used to post at a site called 'Rock For Life', which was full of RW anti-choice twits, and I used to enjoy making fun of them and meeting the occasional nice LWer who'd turn up to stir them up as well, so I'm pretty comfortable in that sort of environment...
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)Please give to help stop the spread of the Asparagus Disease:
[center]
''Atty. Gen. Holder cast this Asparagus on me in front of witnesses!''[/center]
K&R
MADem
(135,425 posts)They translate into revenue. This website thing is a business, not a charity. If it gives Skinner et. al. a nice living so they can keep the doors open here, I'm all for it.
It is perfect for those who like it. Some people like confronting their opposite numbers on occasion. That provides the place.
It keeps the people who like fighting over there. Leave the ones who are feeling those other views of which you speak there too, better there than here.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)move, just using essentially the same methodology to tap another revenue market. And there may be more. The sw developed is a good social engine for revenue.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)The idea was that since these people were there, he could bleed them off here, make THEM pay for it, and keep DU clear of the nastiness that had infected it.
Problem is, that strategy does not work. The bigots and thugs do not want co existence, they want EMPIRE. You cannot appease them, you cannot harness them, nor help them to see reason, until you make it clear that you have established a firm boundary that they will NOT be able to run over! They need to learn neither trick nor threat will help them get past that boundary. They can try a deceptive Trojan horse (we can really be friends, we hate the drug war too), or a horde of angry, gun-toting barbarians (do what we want or we will kick your ass!) but the result must be the same; they must be lying in wreckage and carnage at the foot of our wall, period.
If I was Skinner, I woudl have made the second site a haven for the left. Let's be honest, if the MRA want to light candles to St. Roger Eliot, matryr in the war against women, they will have plenty of forums to do it, not including the ones they have taken over, the way vermin spoil nests and eat eggs. If they want to espouse the Center-right they pretty much have the lions share of media. I would have given a discussionist like panel, picked some mods from here, and say "OK, this is your park." Now, many people would have stayed in DU, and yes, they probably would have paid for that site. Yes, there would be people not happy, but the point is, a market that is not served would be. If he wanted to harbor/exploit the center-right, aka those pined after, worshipped,"REAGAN DEMOCRATS", he could have also done that, but only after the idea was set that yes, the left have their park too.
Now..what we have is discussionist, a place that the cranks who are unhappy with DU are supposed to go, but since those folks are little Imperialists, they will manitain the war. They will still stop here, post their flamebait, get 300+ hits, and worse, get away with exploting the jury system to make sure that they do not get hidden, but that the feminists and other leftists do. What is sad is, for all the faults of the old mod system, the Jury system has been so demonstrably proven to be worthless in protecting the rights of the leftists DU was supposed to welcome.
The post I will not post a blue link to, the one which might as well have been "It was tragic what Roger did, but you wicked feminists made him suffer so much you deserved it." did NOT get hidden, even though it had a lot of vile, sexist statements, but lo and behold, some of the ones that opposed it did. Off to the greast page it went.
The point is, yes, some ideas may sound good, but until the left is given a place of respect, a boundary that says they are not to be mowed down like grass, any attempts to do "bipartisanship" or "coexist" will be a joke. This is sad because, outside of polticis, Discussionost could be a place where ideas are tried out that could be imported to DU; from web fonts to gadgets. However, as long as the right wing gets to poop on everything and salt the fields, it will be nothing more than pearls before swine.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)"they must be lying in wreckage and carnage at the foot of our wall", period. Yepper!!!!!
Scuba
(53,475 posts)I used to post on the Milwaukee Urinal site, but it was overrun with bile. It was apparent that many of the right-wing posters didn't live in Wisconsin, had no grasp of the issues here and were just there to disrupt any meaningful conversation.
Paid shills? No doubt some were.
avebury
(10,951 posts)I joined, have posted a little and pretty much don't spend much time there. Perhaps it was designed to give a place for trolls to go wild and thus not spend so much time on DU? I don't know. Or maybe it is another site to bring in money from advertisements. I pay money to DU to not see ads, I would never consider doing it for Discussionist.
It can be pretty vile:
Feminism birthed Elliot Rodger
Why do some progressives claim this shooter is a white man?
So, it's official, DU is anti-science, anti-GMO to the core.
Why are most mass shooters left leaning?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)right wingers are probably banned DUers. The misogynists in particular.
I wouldn't engage except to see how fast I could get suspended by flaming those bigots.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Iggo
(47,534 posts)Ain't no mystery.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Iggo
(47,534 posts)I have no idea where people are hearing about it other than DU.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Was just curious.
Iggo
(47,534 posts)And to tell you the truth, I hadn't really thought about where the discussionist members were coming from before I read your reply. I guess right now it's just DUers and the fuckheads that monitor DU. But that's just a guess.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)DUers , fuckheads that monitor DU and those who were here but disrupted poorly in the past.
seaglass
(8,171 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)yes, there are plenty of Abgry white males, but there are also Angry homophobes, angry conservdumbs, angry gun worshippers. It is not like there is only one type of pest crawling about in the curds and turds.
Maeve
(42,271 posts)Few posts, more jury duty...tried to full ignore obvious trolls and trash stupid threads, but wasted too much time doing so. It's just not worth the little time I have for political discussion, so I deleted it from my bookmarks.
Paladin
(28,243 posts)Keeping feverish track of DU commentary about their site is one of their primary activities.
Full disclosure: Yeah, I'm over there. And I'm spending more time there than I intended---there are a lot more easy targets than I ever imagined. I don't intend on sticking around there much longer, the novelty's wearing off fast. My advice to DU'ers: Avoid the place, it's ugly.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)is hilarious.
Paladin
(28,243 posts)But there are a considerable number of folks at Discussionist who have been kicked out of DU (there's a rather large thread devoted to their experiences), and those people are out for blood. Entertaining, but only in small doses.....
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)posts over here posting about what is being posted over there and complaining about them posting about what is being posted over here.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)http://www.discussionist.com/10152246
http://www.discussionist.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1301
http://www.discussionist.com/101523086
Of all economic systems to trumpet and worship, they land on "Trickle Down", which is all I need to know about them.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
That's why....
Or do you think he's doing it out of the goodness of his heart?
Liberal_Dog
(11,075 posts)I never signed up. I pretty much figured it would turn out that way.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)and disgusting as a so called discussion site. Lots of bigotry, racism and good old american dog whistlers. You are 100 per cent on the mark.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)ThomThom
(1,486 posts)and have not joined and don't think I will. What is the point no one is learning, it is mostly about taking shots at the other side. Both sides are doing it.
Gothmog
(144,919 posts)They are not very bright
kentuck
(111,052 posts)The Challenge of the Facts.
Liberals have their facts and conservatives have their talking points.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,153 posts)No interest in creating a profile there whatsoever.
Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
kcr
(15,314 posts)The two sites are too interconnected and associated with each other. They come back here and start posting the same way they do there.
Response to kcr (Reply #96)
seaglass This message was self-deleted by its author.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)Again, the idea of the idiots going over there and playing in their sandbox SOUNDS good, but the fact is, they do not want to play in their sandbox. They want to kick sand in our faces, and USE their new sadbox as a beachhead. It is one thing to make a site to test out things, but when you willingly accept people that are PROUD of making DU suck, you cannot expect a good outcome.
7962
(11,841 posts)Just like here. Now obviously I havent read ALL the threads over there, but its been set up to allow comments and topics that would never be allowed here.
I think the bad stuff HAS been getting blocked.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I'm glad the admins made that place, it attracts exactly the right people it was made for.
Hekate
(90,556 posts)My desktop computer still remembers my password so I'll check in from time to time until I get accidentally logged out in the next power outage, after which I doubt I'll bother.
It may shake out okay if the Admins get a good grip on the situation, or maybe not.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)We argue about some pretty petty and insignificant things here. At least there they can and do discuss real issues.
joshcryer
(62,266 posts)Which is a really novel way to moderate a form system. The problem is that free flowing info tends toward the lowest common denominator.
carolinayellowdog
(3,247 posts)My brief foray there was inspired by a short-lived hope that its over-the-top anti-liberal rightwingers would be a less annoying "other side" than the "centrist anti-progressive" faction here, because at least they don't pretend to be what they are not. Alas, not so. Here is my impression of the types found there:
1. Current DUers wanting to get away from the toxic atmosphere and all the bullet proof trolls, and hoping for something better. These are the ones I'd hoped to see there, and many are, and posting worthwhile items.
2. The "centrist" authoritarian Democratic faction that has made DU so sucky for so long is already over there injecting itself into the mix, so Discussionist is no escape from them. Indeed at least here we know who they are from long painful experience, whereas there, with all new usernames, one has to wade through the sewer of their posts to recognize the familiar stench.
3. Then there are the shameless Caver type rightwing trolls, reminding us that although their site is down their spite is undiminished. Nasty, brutish, and short is their posting style.
4. Also a faction of trolls expelled from DU for good reason, over many years, who can now exact retribution on their old adversaries.
The ingredients may change over coming weeks, but it looks like an even worse recipe for "online community" than we have here. One element I'm not qualified to judge is that some people plausibly claim to have been tombstoned here unfairly, but it is impossible to evaluate the truth or falsity of their stories.
seaglass
(8,171 posts)5. Current DUers, who either using their DU username or a new username and are joining with factions 4 and 3
Also CC is no longer down
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Don't think I will. I waste enough time on other sites. LOL I don't need another one.
Gothmog
(144,919 posts)I have to deal with idiots similar to the RWNJs on the Discussionist board all of the time in real life. I enjoy mixing it up with these idiots on the Discussionist board and calling them on their bullshit. Some of these idiots are shocked when their Fox News inspired talking points are debunked. The RWNJs make some disgusting comments which they hope will prove their points. I do not mind confronting these idiots and pushing back against their talking points
Most of the objectionable threads mentioned are being challenged by good liberals and progressives who are doing their best to debunk the talking points on these threads. I like confronting these idiots and I think that it is helpful to get the other side out.
I understand that the Discussionist board has some unpleasant threads but the best way to deal with stupidity of the RWNJs is to confront them. I may have a higher tolerance for their hatred and stupidity due to my prolong exposure to similar idiots in real life. Due to my higher tolerance, I am having fun confronting these idiots.
warrprayer
(4,734 posts)Last edited Fri May 30, 2014, 10:13 AM - Edit history (1)
I spent a bit of time on the local "topix" board. ( I have nearly 5,000 posts there under my registered handle, probably triple that unregistered). You had 3 or 4 progressives/democrats, and about 10 - 15 wingnuts of the most vile sort and their socks. I am quite used to holding my own in such an environment, therefore I feel right at home on Discussionist. The more thin skinned might not enjoy their time there.
We even had the notable militia nutcase ex police chief from Gilberton, Pa. post there a few times, along with his local chapter buddies. It was a perfect opportunity to expose to anyone lurking just how unintelligent and warped these folks are.
And they are on the far end of the spectrum. There are people out there who don't buy into everything the progressive/democratic line advocates. They are not necessarily stupid and often have insights that someone with a rigid viewpoint might miss.
Furthermore, someone who is an average, non hyper political type who wanders onto D.U. and scrolls down the o.p. titles in G.D. might well say to themselves "what the hell am I doing here"?
I like Discussionist. I hate censorship.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)About 80/20, and slipping fast....
No shortage of bigotry here, either...it's just that some of it is accepted.
cali
(114,904 posts)some comparisons are just not justified. Yours isn't.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Oh, right, you don't have to. Just go over there. If you dare.