US senator working on bill to allow more visas to Indians

[bart95]

US senator working on bill to allow more visas to Indians

New York, Mar 25, 2012,(PTI)

Amid Indian IT firms' concerns over restrictive US visa policies for their employees, a top American senator has assured that he is working on a bipartisan bill that will reform immigration laws and allow more Indians to come to America.

Influential US Senator from New York Chuck Schumer and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid met noted Indian-American hotelier and Chairman of Indian-American Democrats Sant Singh Chatwal at his Manhattan hotel here on Friday.

During the nearly hour long meeting, the three discussed India-US bilateral relations, with Chatwal raising concerns of Indian IT corporations regarding problems faced by them in obtaining work visas like H1B and L1 for their employees.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/237070/us-senator-working-bill-allow.html

[bart95]

1. Biden: 'No H-1B visa can be granted to an employee to come to a company unless they can prove there

'No H-1B visa can be granted to an employee to come to a company unless they can prove there is no American to fill the job'

Clueless in the White House
64 CommentsTAGS:H-1B, Obama, offshore outsourcing
IT TOPICS:Government & Regulation
Vice President Joe Biden doesn’t know a thing about the H-1B visa.

There is one basic fact about this temporary work visa that everyone in political office, or running for political office, ought to understand and it is this: There’s almost nothing to stop an employer from replacing a U.S. worker with an H-1B visa holder.

U.S. IT workers understand this, especially those who have had to train their visa-holding replacement.

The idea that a visa holder can’t replace a U.S. worker is a widely held fiction with many in elected office, including Biden.

Biden was asked about the H-1B visa by a reporter at KWQC News in Iowa

http://blogs.computerworld.com/19965/clueless_in_the_white_house

[whathehell]

8. This is the visa that Robert Reich, when he was Labor Secretary, said was "fraught with abuse".

[bart95]

10. so did Durbin (D-IL), Grassley (R-IA) and Sanders (Independent Socialist-VT)

interesting spectrum of honest politicians (at least on this topic)

I probably agree with Sanders the most in general

[bart95]

2. Obama 'what industry tells me is that they don't have enough highly skilled engineers'

so why listen to the little people who say otherwise?

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9223847/Obama_confronted_on_H_1B_use_during_Google_hangout_

[whathehell]

11. What they mean is, they don't have enough "highly skilled engineers" who will work CHEAP.

How DARE Americans expect more than a third world wage?


This stuff is virtual treason, IMO.

[eShirl]

22. Industry also tells him they are overtaxed and overregulated. n/t

[bart95]

23. but, but, they're the 'job creators' LOL

nothing creates more jobs than hourding free money from bailouts and outsourcing jobs

[bart95]

3. Hillary Clinton 'I also want to reaffirm my commitment to the H-1b visa program, and to increase'

'the current cap'

[whathehell]

12. Might be why she's been called "The Senator from Punjab".

and this is EXACTLY why I didn't vote for her in the primary,

although it seems Obama isn't much better.

This is really an outrage, especially during a recession...WTF?

[bart95]

14. that's what obama actually called her in a paper during the primary Clinton (D-Punjab)

before he hired her and adopted her positions

and SHE was actually the first person to call herself that


Washington May 18th - “I am delighted to be the Senator from Punjab as well as from New York” said Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and the former first lady of the United States of America. She received a standing ovation and thunderous applause from the Sikh Americans who had gathered in the Senate side of the Capitol Hill on May 17th for the Sikh American Heritage Dinner Event in Washington, DC. The Sikh Council on Religion and Education (SCORE), based in the nation’s capital organized this event.

from http://www.sikhcouncilusa.org/article.aspx?article=evtdinner


(you never introduce yourself as anyone but the senator from the state that elected you PERIOD)

[bart95]

15. Tata, Clinton and the ghost of outsourcing

(this is from Indian media, BTW)

It seems outsourcing -- and her proximity to Indian business houses like the Tatas -- is going to be the litmus test for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton in the run-up to the 2008 United States Presidential elections.

Fellow Democrat and fellow Presidential hopeful Senator Barack Obama's campaign office had a go at Senator Clinton not too long ago, calling her a 'Democrat from Punjab' -- for her friendship with the New York-based Chatwals and pro-outsourcing stand.

'many labor unions and high-tech workers, the Indian giant Tata Consultancy Services [Get Quote] is a serious threat -- a company that has helped move US jobs to India while sending thousands of foreign workers on temporary visas to the United States,' begins the Los Angeles Times report.

It then details how Hillary announced in 2003 that TCS would set up a software development office in Buffalo and how Ratan Tata had said his company might hire 200 people.'



http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/jul/30hillary.htm

*notice the New York Based Chatwals are the same ones Reid and Schumer were sucking up to this week, in the OP of this thread)


her attending the opening of an Indian outsoucing office in Buffalo, NY

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_d9PxlbCXrxA/RuyouHU0hII/AAAAAAAAAAc/eB1_hnP758g/s200/Hillary-Tata+Smooch.jpg

[Egalitarian Thug]

30. Good to know that there are some people that remember.

In one of the most truly tone-deaf moments in politics, Senator Clinton attended a fabulous gala for Tata in Albany (Buffalo?) the same day IBM (major employer in her district) announced the layoff of 10,000 more high tech employees.

Lost my support forever right there.

[bart95]

33. with friends like that, you dont need enemies

although as sec of state, she does keep the peace

why would anyone attack us, when she will give away everything we have?

[bart95]

34. it was more arrogance, than tone deafness nt

[bart95]

4. USAToday 'Workers asked to train foreign replacements'

'Almost one in five information technology workers has lost a job or knows someone who lost a job after training a foreign worker, according to a new survey by the Washington Alliance of Technology Workers. The study is the first to quantify how widespread the practice is. '

'It's a terrible thing to ask someone to train their replacement and ship the job overseas," Hudgins, a Democrat, says. "This is way beyond election-year politics. It's a shift in our economy. It's not a partisan issue."

Many feel powerless. In 2003, Kevin Flanagan was laid off from Bank of America after training foreign workers. He shot and killed himself in the parking lot in Concord, Calif.

His death galvanized other information technology workers, who have staged protests against outsourcing. Members of Congress opposed to the practice also have used his case as a call to action.

"We were very saddened by the death of our associate," says Bank of America spokeswoman Mary Waller. (then she snapped her fingers and asked 'where's that bailout? LOL)


http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2004-04-06-replace_x.htm

[whathehell]

9. That is a fucking outrage, IMO.

[bart95]

13. it's total labor busting

plain and simple

the kind of thing brave democrat party membrs in the 1930s-1960s risked getting their skulls busted to fight

[whathehell]

16. Yup...Seems we've been "sold out"

and it's why Obama has been so infuriatingly mum on the Labor struggles in the Midwest.

Of course I'm voting for him, but ONLY because there's no one "better" in the running

and others so much worse, but this country is becoming, IMO, all but worthless

for it's own citizens....When you think of the average person here and

compare their "rights" and "protections" as citizens, compared to the rest

of the western industrialized world, it offers very little, at this point.

Having grown up in the so-called "Golden Age" of America (Fifties til roughly Eighties)

it makes me SICK to see how the quality of life for all but the very richest

has deteriorated, and how LITTLE the average American can expect anymore.

One gets tired of CONSTANTLY fighting for what people in other western countries take for granted.

It's really sad, because in the post war era of the 50's, 60's, 70's,

American had the LARGEST middle class in the world...I understand we've now got

the SMALLEST. I'm near retirement, but if I were younger, I might leave this

freaking place and settle elsewhere.

[Egalitarian Thug]

31. My friend Dave went through this with them in '99.

Train your replacement or no recommendation. No notice, no severance, no choice.

[dionysus]

5. having a nice conversation with youself?

[bart95]

6. Orwell explained all this in 1945 'it's not what it looks like' LOL

(this passage, written in the 1945 book 'Animal Farm', is EXACTLY what's going on in this thread. 'Jones' is the human farmer that the animals pushed out in their revolution. 'Jones' is the modern day 'republican', milk and apples are corporate contributions attached to labor sellouts in this thread. Orwell was not a prophet or a futurist, he was just a skilled observer of politicians)

The mystery of where the milk went to was soon cleared up. It was mixed
every day into the pigs' mash. The early apples were now ripening, and the grass
of the orchard was littered with windfalls. The animals had assumed as a matter
of course that these would be shared out equally; one day, however, the order
went forth that all the windfalls were to be collected and brought to the harness-
room for the use of the pigs. At this some of the other animals murmured, but
it was no use. All the pigs were in full agreement on this point, even Snowball
and Napoleon. Squealer was sent to make the necessary explanations to the
others.

`Comrades!' he cried. `You do not imagine, I hope, that we pigs are doing
this in a spirit of sel shness and privilege? Many of us actually dislike milk
and apples. I dislike them myself. Our sole object in taking these things is
to preserve our health. Milk and apples (this has been proved by Science,
comrades) contain substances absolutely necessary to the well-being of a pig.
We pigs are brainworkers. The whole management and organisation of this farm
depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for your
sake that we drink that milk and eat those apples. Do you know what would
happen if we pigs failed in our duty? Jones would come back! Yes, Jones would
come back! Surely, comrades,' cried Squealer almost pleadingly, skipping from
side to side and whisking his tail, `surely there is no one among you who wants
to see Jones come back?'

Now if there was one thing that the animals were completely certain of, it
was that they did not want Jones back. When it was put to them in this light,
they had no more to say. The importance of keeping the pigs in good health
was all too obvious. So it was agreed without further argument that the milk
and the windfall apples (and also the main crop of apples when they ripened)
should be reserved for the pigs alone.

from

http://www.msxnet.org/orwell/print/animal_farm.pdf

[obnoxiousdrunk]

7. thanks for bringing us all

the scary Indian news. Keep up the good work.

[Zalatix]

20. Thank you for perpetuating the idea that it's okay to discriminate against Americans

for American jobs.

[JDPriestly]

18. Americans could be trained to do the work that we are importing

foreign nationals to do.

This is utterly unfair.

When Americans have jobs, then these visas are appropriate, but not until then. There is simply no excuse for not training Americans for the jobs.

I understand it is often just a matter of learning a new program or some specific thing. Americans can learn if given a little help. Employers should be required to train Americans first.

[whathehell]

21. You are correct...European countries, and, I suspect, other western democracies, protect the

jobs and economic interests of their own citizens.

What is the advantage of being a citizen in a country that thinks it owes you nothing?

[bart95]

25. 'What is the advantage of being a citizen in a country that thinks it owes you nothing'

let's put that question to bill gates

in time: 3:50 to 5:30 of video

&feature=player_embedded

[whathehell]

37. Thanks for the clip.

Gates really dances around this...At least until he starts

talking about the "B and C students in INDIA" he wants to employee?

All in all, I guess the answer to my question would be "none"?

[bart95]

38. there's no 'I' in team, but it's the first vowel in b I ll gates

it all exists for his benefit

everything and everyone

you must have less, so he can have more

[whathehell]

39. "You must have less, so he can have more"

Yes, if you change the "he" to "we", it would be the

whole mesage of the One Percent and their Reich Wing toadies, wouldn't it?

[bart95]

19. interesting transcript snippet from West Wing Episode Jan 2000 'soft influence'

'soft influence' is the term for this

where they throw groups of American workers to the wolves in favor of foreign interests in exchange for influence other countries

'West Wing' even had a TV episode about it, India and Pakistan were threatening each other (as they were in real life around that time), an president martin sheen at the end of the episode quietly gave India the computer industry for influence

in the episode, American tech workers solely accountable for peace in that region

i was shocked when i saw this, as i was learning about H-1b expansion in real life

i was wondering 'gee, where'd they get the idea for THIS episode?!?', sure, it was just a TV show episode, but they pulled plenty of their ideas from real life, that's what made the show so popular, a show for the 'smart set'


dont beleive me? here's the transcript (Bartlet is the president)

BARTLET
John, please.

MARBURY
You've been paying the world off since the industrial age. Foreign aid,
during the Cold
War was you paying dictators to be on your side. To this very day, you pay
Korea not to
develop nuclear weapons.

BARTLET
What does India want?

MARBURY
A computer industry, and for that, they require an infrastructure, and that
is what you
can give them.

LEO
Why?

MARBURY
It's the price you pay.

LEO
For avoiding a war halfway around the world?

MARBURY
For being rich, free and alive all at the same time, and for the criminally
negligent
behavior of your Congress in not checking the proliferation of nuclear
devices.

BARTLET
Your friend, the prime minister?

MARBURY
Rikki.

BARTLET
He's gonna go for this?

MARBURY
If it's handled properly.

BARTLET
All right, you tell the ambassador we'll discuss this in three months. In
three months,
John. I don't want this to be like quid pro quo.

MARBURY
Yes, sir.

BARTLET
That's the carrot. Leo, what's the stick?

LEO
In the next 24 hours, we want to see recon photos of Indian divisions
retreating. If we
don't, we're gonna seize Indian assets and so will our NATO allies, and
G-7's gonna call
in its loans.

http://www.westwingtranscripts.com/search.php?flag=getTranscript&id=12




Episode 1.12 -- 'He Shall, From Time To Time...'
Original Airdate: January 12, 2000, 9:00 PM EST

[OhioChick]

24. The visa program should be suspended until unemployment in the US drops significantly n/t

[bart95]

26. Obama, Biden, Reid, Clinton, Schumer-> 'Washington, we have problem'

Obama, Biden, Reid, Clinton, Schumer-> all current top leaders

all putting India first, in a period of high unemployment when jobs are being outsourcing to India

Am I wrong in expecting an answer for this?

[bart95]

29. can anyone link me to any evidence that any of these 5 have ever considered the opinions

of tech labor in these policies?

I can link you to endless articles where they have sucked up to Indian interests and top industry executives

But can anyone link me to anything where they have seriously considered the opinions of anyone else?!?!?

[Egalitarian Thug]

35. Of course not, because they don't exist.

How much longer can the illusion of choice persist?

[bart95]

27. notice that Schumer, Reid and Clinton listen first to New York-based Chatwals

a wealthy Indian hotel family, and not to ordinary American citizen tech workers AT ALL, on issues of technology

what does a hotel family have to do with tech?!?!?

this is about the interests of INDIA, put above the interests of American citizens

[Marrah_G]

28. I would like to see the work Visa's stopped

at least until people already living here have jobs at living wages. I'd also like to see penalties for outsourcing jobs.

None of that will happen though, since most folks in DC are bought and paid for.

[bart95]

36. me 2 nt

[Egalitarian Thug]

32. I guess we can look forward to another decade of destroying the economy that

was supposed to replace our manufacturing economy.

[bart95]

40. Is the base mostly OK with all of this?

the OP post 2, and post 26 show current top leadership is involved

Post 3 shows that someone who's been involved at top levels (H Clinton) for 20 years strongly supports this

Post 10 shows that there are members of the entire spectrum who oppose it

Post 4 shows that even USAToday (mainstream media) has reported that citizens have had to directly retrain their foreign replacements, and at least one suicide has directly resulted

Post 1, comments from biden last week, (link below)

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/sciencecareers/2012/04/president-obama-2.html

show the VP giving false answers when asked about it (why does a 'good program' need false answers?)

yet, the base doesn't seem bothered, and sometimes even seems hostile toward anyone bringing it up?

any thoughts as to where the base of the party stands on this issue?

[Brickbat]

41. Shameful. K&R

[bart95]

42. any thoughts on why they are doing this

instead of meeting with American workers?

seems like when they meet with average Americans they have a microphone

when they meet with money/foreign interests, they have an ear