Zimmerman claims he was on his way to Target when he spotted Trayvon. So why did he need a gun?

[Cali_Democrat]

Do people normally carry guns when they go shopping at Target? Really? This to me is outrageous. The notion that there are lunatics like Zimmerman racially profiling people, starting confrontations and legally carrying guns everywhere they go is a scary prospect.

Add this to the constant fear-mongering from the GOP and Faux Newz and it's even more disturbing. This is reality in America today and something has to change.

Other first world countries in Europe and Asia look and just shake their heads.

[Ian David]

1. Because it's called Target? n/t

[CAPHAVOC]

16. It was a News edit error.

Really said Target Practice.

[Mz Pip]

2. Whatever Zimmerman claims to have been doing

I still think he went looking for a fight. No matter what he says, it's premeditated if you go out and intentionally pick a fight with someone then shoot them if they make any more to defend themself.

[HooptieWagon]

7. I dont think he was specifically looking for a fight.

He was just determined that THIS time the "asshole" wouldnt get away. He attempted to detain Trayvon, illegally and in violation of Trayvons civil rights. Trayvon likely put up some resistance to what he may have thougjt was a robbery or kidnapping, so Zimmy shot him.

[Life Long Dem]

22. The last thing I would do

If I was to start a fight, would be to call the cops and walk them through my fight. Come on now. You can do better.

[Fumesucker]

68. How many times have you called 911 in the last year?

The Z-man had 911 on speed-dial...

[Life Long Dem]

73. He could be a little more relaxed with them than I would be.

[Indydem]

3. Concealed carry is legal.

And he has a CCW permit.

There is absolutely nothing crazy about carrying a firearm in public.

[Nancy Waterman]

5. He was not licensed to carry as a neighborhood watch person

That would have required further permitting which he didn't have.
He stalked Trayvon, assuming he was guilty of something and suspicious.

[Indydem]

9. Do not confuse the issues.

He has headed to a public location, and decided to perform (badly) his neighborhood watch duties.

I do not condone what he did; I do not make excuses for his actions.

The issue was why did he have a gun when he was headed to Target, and my response was tot hat comment.

[ManiacJoe]

10. When did "neighborhood watch" program start requiring any permitting at all?

[trof]

111. It doesn't.

When we set up our neighborhood watch plan, our chief of police made it VERY CLEAR that we were NOT some kind of vigilante posse.

Our job was just to be extra eyes and ears in the neighborhood and to report any suspicious activity to the police.

That, and report any crimes discovered after-the-fact.
Burglaries, scams, etc.
There's a regular business P.D. number for that.

And DO NOT CALL 911, unless we were seeing an actual crime-in-progress.

[gratuitous]

14. Yeah, there is something crazy about it

And Mr. Zimmerman is Exhibit 4,982 in a never-ending series of why it is crazy. "Legal" ╪ "Sane"

[Indydem]

17. You are entitled to your opinion.

Luckily it is a tiny minority opinion which America as a whole, and the Democratic party specifically, has dismissed.

Thanks.

[gratuitous]

19. You're welcome

And it's still insane.

[tledford]

86. A majority of Americans still think Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11.

I'd put it in the same category of stupid.

[pnwmom]

43. Unless you live in a free-fire zone, carrying a gun in public

will probably decrease your safety more than increase it.

We've had three very sad cases of small children killing themselves in my state in the last several months, due to permitted parents who mistakenly thought they would be safer if they carried guns while driving; and who didn't prevent access to children.

[Fawke Em]

57. I'll agree it's legal... but I may differ on the "crazy."

Why the fuck would you need a firearm in a Target, walking around your neighborhood, whatever? Most people walk around everywhere without firearms and don't get accosted if they're paying attention to their surroundings.

My husband and I are both professionally trained in handling firearms (he was in the Army; I happened to be a police reporter who was covering a feature story on police training and participated in firearms and defensive driving training; hubby's training, of course, if more extensive than mine, but I did continue target practice for some time after receiving the training). Even with all that... we don't own any firearms because we both know that most gun deaths are accidental and we have a teenager and a small child.

You know what deters most criminals, btw? DOGS.

I take late-night walks with mine (decompression away from the house after the kids are in bed). I live in one of the most dog-friendly cities and can take them to most restaurants if I want. And, I don't shop after dark unless it's an emergency and a kid needs some cold/tummy/sinus meds.

I really don't get the need to carry a weapon when you're not hunting or are a police officer or whatever.

[krispos42]

115. If we're basing things on probabilities....

they why bother to wear seatbelts? I mean, what are the odds that, on any given day, you'll crash or be crashed into?


And if your odds of being attacked by a violent criminal are are low, then your odds of being attacked by a CCW permittee are "winning the lottery jackpot" low.

[Fawke Em]

129. I have NEVER bought a lottery ticket.

At least I'm consistent.

[nadinbrzezinski]

130. Actually higher than being a CCW hero

So is hitting jackpot...

[Cowboy Dan]

143. Sorry, FE.

Sorry, FE, you're wrong.

"we both know that most gun deaths are accidental and we have a teenager and a small child. " Most gun deaths are suicides, followed closest by homicides.


From the Center for Disease Control's 2009 mortality report:

Total deaths by firearms: 31,347

Intentional self-harm (suicide) by discharge of firearms (X72-X74) 18,735

Assault (homicide) by discharge of firearms 11,493

Legal intervention 395

Discharge of firearms, undetermined intent (Y22-Y24) 232

Operations of war and their sequelae 25

As you see, FE, the undetermined intent category is a small subset of all the firearms related deaths, (0.007401%).

Whether you choose to have guns in your home is a decision for you and your family. I respect your decision, although I doubt we will ever meet. I have friends and family members who choose not to have firearms; that's their business, not mine.

We have had guns in our home since our children were in diapers, and we have had no firearms incidents in or around our home. Rather than hide our guns and make them mysteries to be explored, we showed our children our firearms and taught them basic rules of firearms safety. Two of the three shoot quite well; the third has no interest in guns. I am glad for you that you have never felt the need to carry a weapon. May you, in many years, die peacefully in your own bed.

I have been in some situations where a firearm in my hands might have turned things out differently. I worked in corrections and carried a gun for years on and off duty. I only once felt the need to draw it from its holster. I didn't have to shoot anyone, and the situation resolved somewhat peaceably. Had the other parties acted differently, I would have been justified in using deadly force and would have been found non-culpable by my agency. I don't believe the State's Attorney would have even considered filing any charges.

I will, when I can legally do so, carry again.

[Fawke Em]

156. Sorry, but you're more wrong.

I have only my interviews with prisoners to go, but I'll tell you this: dogs keep more criminals away than guns. I have five. We had a burglar/robber in our neighborhood. Broke into everyone's house, but mine and the family next to us. Why? We had dogs.

He even broke in on one of my friends/neighbors while she was home with her new baby. She saw him and called our other neighbor (the other one with dogs) before she called 911 because he could get there faster.

BTW, my hubby was an Army Ranger. I'm sure he knows how to handle a gun, but we just aren't going to put a weapon in our house.

The dogs have worked and they are our friends. A gun could be our worst enemy and you can't pet it - well, I guess you could, but it's not as soft and cannot be thankful.

[HooptieWagon]

4. Theres black people wearing hoodies at Target. Better bring a gun. nt

[Nye Bevan]

6. He was on his way to target

black guys.

[eppur_se_muova]

8. Actually what he said was "I was out looking for a target" ... nt

[hlthe2b]

11. You must have never checked in to our gun forum (RKBA)... Those with CCW think they should be able

and NEED to carry them EVERYWHERE. That includes (for many) in church, to every restaurant and coffee shop, IN BARS (yes !) and some, with the impetus of NRA and another even more radical pro-gun organization (Gun Owners of America), want to push to allow them in every school, day care and even on airplanes.

Yup... I am NOT kidding.

[vr94rx7]

15. Violence doesn't happen at these places?

Do you wear your seat belt all time, or only when you know you are going to have an accident?

[Arkana]

18. Seatbelts aren't capable of killing other people when mishandled.

[slackmaster]

21. You are mistaken

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/man-was-strangled-with-seatbelt-police-1.407244

[vr94rx7]

23. They save lives, just as concield carried guns do.

Im sure there have been a few deaths fro a seat belts.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. there is simply no way that "concield" is a typo.

[vr94rx7]

60. It was. It has been a long Monday.

[hlthe2b]

24. Argue that in the gun forum. I am only stating a fact.

[vr94rx7]

26. Sorry, I thought you asked a question.

Do people normally carry guns when they go shopping at Target? Really?

[NoGOPZone]

33. That question was in the opening post of the thread

not the one to which you replied.

[vr94rx7]

36. Sorry that was my mistake.

[pnwmom]

44. In generally safe places, you or your children are more likely to be wounded or killed by accident

with a gun than to use one in defense of your life.

[PavePusher]

138. Stats, please. n/t

[pnwmom]

140. Why bother? Every time I post the Harvard researcher's stats, someone pops up to dispute them. But

no one has ever provided statistics showing that guns make them safer.

[Cali_Democrat]

28. So essentially they want no places that are gun-free

This is getting out of control.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. No you are not

We all know the world is THAT DANGEROUS.

This s an NRA pushed and lapped talking point.

[vr94rx7]

12. I carry my gun where ever i go with one or two exceptions.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. I always carry my gun when going to the toilet.

Especially the crapper. Alligators. Be prepared.

[vr94rx7]

34. Alligators are no joke!

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. Seriously you realize a hand gun, even large calliber

Will have a heck of a time penetrating that brain case. 30-06 are the minimum used by pro hunters.

[vr94rx7]

74. I know but a toilet alligator would be pretty small.

I know but a toilet alligator would be pretty small.

[Hangingon]

121. Better spend sometime watching Swamp People

before you pontificate on pro hunters and the .30-06 for gators. They use a lot of .22 rimfires.

[vr94rx7]

122. I know that a .22 will do but overkill is better than underkill when it comes to gators.

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. Prefered s an M-1

Correct me on the caliber...

As I correctly remember it is NOT a 22

[vr94rx7]

124. here toy go

The m1 garand uses a 30-06.
The m1 carbine uses a .30
The AR15 M16 use an .223 /5.56mm

" target="_blank">

[nadinbrzezinski]

125. Garand

From same show.

[Hangingon]

134. I have never seen a Garand on the show.

Overkill may be good but these guys are professional hunters. That means they do it for profit. Compare the cost of .22 to the cost of .30-06 - and don't forget to add in the cost of M1 clips.

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. So admittedly we have watched a different show

First season, he even explained where he needed to hit due to how thick the skull is...or you just make them angry.

Yup, it was a Garand...and he'll take nothing less.

[Meiko]

144. They use 22 rimfires

I have never seen a Garand being used to oft gators.

[nadinbrzezinski]

145. Yup, different shows.

[zappaman]

147. *sigh*

[Codeine]

157. Those Garands were self-deleted by the hunter. nt

[HockeyMom]

13. If he had a CCW in Florida, he could bring his "security blankie" anywhere

Neighborhood watch, Target, Walmart, just about anywhere, except a public school, government building, court, or Disney.

The gun rights people are trying to ELIMINATE those last 4 prohiitive places.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

75. "security blankie"

Yup, nothing but a bunch of big ol' scared pussies (as in "pussy cats", not the pejorative for Lady Parts). Pathetic, the lot of'em.

[JHB]

137. hey, never underestimate someone with a towel...

The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy has a few things to say on the subject of towels.
A towel, it says, is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitch hiker can have. Partly it has great practical value — you can wrap it around you for warmth as you bound across the cold moons of Jaglan Beta; you can lie on it on the brilliant marble‐sanded beaches of Santraginus Ⅴ, inhaling the heady sea vapours; you can sleep under it beneath the stars which shine so redly on the desert world of Kakrafoon; use it to sail a mini raft down the slow heavy river Moth; wet it for use in hand‐to‐hand‐combat; wrap it round your head to ward off noxious fumes or to avoid the gaze of the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal (a mindbogglingly stupid animal, it assumes that if you can't see it, it can't see you — daft as a bush, but very ravenous); you can wave your towel in emergencies as a distress signal, and of course dry yourself off with it if it still seems to be clean enough.

More importantly, a towel has immense psychological value. For some reason, if a strag (strag: nonhitchhiker) discovers that a hitchhiker has his towel with him, he will automatically assume that he is also in possession of a toothbrush, washcloth, soap, tin of biscuits, flask, compass, map, ball of string, gnat spray, wet-weather gear, space suit etc., etc. Furthermore, the strag will then happily lend the hitchhiker any of these or a dozen other items that the hitchhiker might have accidentally "lost.". What the strag will think is that any man that can hitch the length and breadth of the Galaxy, ruff it, slum it, struggle against terrible odds, win through and still know where his towel is, is clearly a man to be reckoned with.

from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams

[TheCowsCameHome]

20. You can't go anywhere without a gun.

......at least that's the way some think.

[Hoyt]

25. Unfortunately, people do carry their guns to Target, parks, restaurants, and they want the right to

carry just about anywhere. It really is getting out of control.

Zimmerman is just the tip of the iceberg. We have sat quietly by while the NRA and other right wing organizations have pushed legislation through to allow public carrying just about everywhere. Worse, the pro-gun crowd has been scarfing up guns at an unprecedented pace and encouraging more and more people to join the clan.

If we sit by for another decade, there will be another 100 million guns in this country that will have to be dealt with at some point.

[vr94rx7]

35. If bad guys would follow the law, I wouldnt need/want to carry everywhere.

Its too bad that law abiding citizens cant own guns that can cross into those magical "gun free zones".

[Warren Stupidity]

45. yeah you would. Alligators. How soon you forget.

[uppityperson]

47. Like Zimmy? eom

[Hoyt]

51. Welcome to DU. I've know a bunch of folks who carry guns, they'd still do it if there were no crime.

They would come up with some group to fear to rationalize strapping a gun or two on before venturing out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. You know what amazes me about this argument?

Crime is down, even violent crime.

In my job as a paramedic I purposely went into unsafe places. In the course of ten years I was in danger from guns aimed directly at me, and trust me these are bad guys, twice. A few other shootouts between the cops and cartels, but seriously you do the math.

Your chances of being a hero in the US are anywhere from zero to nil.

You guys are a scared and vocal minority...I mean it, gun ownership is down.

By the way we do own guns, and enjoy shooting from time to time at the range, even make jokes at how bad of a shot I am. I have zero need to strap an iron like the mythical wild west. After all, the real wild west was teeming with local ordinances.

I guess in your life bad guys are everywhere, never mind statistics or reality.

By the way you know what has gone up? Oh yeah since SYG laws, civilian on civilian shootings. Americans will sooner or later have a turn of heart...it's happened before. I can't wait either.

[vr94rx7]

77. I have no desire to be a hero.

The thing about bad guys that sucks is they dont tell you they are bad, they show you through action.

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Please do the math.

Thousands of responses, some ahead of cops. Two direct threats with firearms, one with an axe and one with a broken bottle.

And I purposely went into these situations. It was part of the job.

I doubt you are doing this, serious.

Oh and a few shoot outs that we were at range.

[vr94rx7]

88. thank you for your service.

Would you be ok with anyone in your family being in one of those situations? Im glad you are out there helping people but I dont want to rely on the kindness of strangers.

Just because I never needed my seat belt doesn't mean I still don't wear it. I know that its not the same as carrying a gun but, I believe in the boy scout motto. That doesn't mean that I fantasize about shooting someone with my ccw.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. Are you familiar with escalation of force?

And my husband was down range from a few AK's in a warzone.

In one of those I defended myself.

You will have to be a pretty unlucky son of a gun. There are cops in this country that do twenty, again looking for trouble, and never fire a shot in or out of duty. Yes, guns clear leather, but they never pull the trigger.

By your own comment of Zimmerman, the lethal weapons Trayvon Martin had were a cell phone, a bag of skittles and a can of Arizona tea...tell me, where in the threat matrix does this fit in?

[vr94rx7]

93. I am familiar with the escalation of force.

I'm not saying that Z was correct. Im saying he is,(which he isnt) I wouldn't want to go through it, but i would rather go through it then be dead. I wasnt there but it seems Z escalated when he got out of his car. I would have driven to Target and got my toilet paper and went home.

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. But we are having this discussion because of Zimmerman.

And as you see more and more of these incidents gun laws will come under scrutiny. It's happened in the past, and we will get there again...can't wait.

Good to know you would have staid in the car.

For starters Zimmerman should not have been able to legally carry concealed, due to his encounters with law enforcement previously.

By the way there are people who have valid reasons for a concealed carry, not just cops, but far less than have them.

[HockeyMom]

108. Having worked in Florida K-12 Public schools

I can tell you if a staff member was found to have gun in their car, they would be fired immediately. Personally, I have never worked in a Florida school where there wasn't a full, and some additional part-time, badge and gun toting Deputies on the school campus. I would trust them, and their training and experience, far more than some "law abiding, citizen" school staff members with guns. I worked with At Risk Pre-teen boys. We had radios and many, many times called the Deputy to prevent an incident with these boys. I suppose staff should have been armed too? Hell, we didn't let these kids use pencils which could be a weapon. They wrote with crayons. Anything they could use as a weapon was banned, or under lock and key. Teachers having guns? Insane around these kids.

Believe me, you wouldn't want to mess with any of these Deputies; male, OR female.

[spin]

94. Your absolutely right because crime never happens in a Target, a park ...

or a restaurant. Everybody knows that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. And quite honestly my chances to give first aid

At any of those locations are much higher than you ever having to clear leather, let alone pull the trigger.

Crime is way down, never mind the if it bleeds it leads paradigm.

[spin]

116. True. Crime is way down despite the spread of concealed carry ...

and the skyrocketing sales of firearms.

That doesn't mean that it is nonexistent.

[nadinbrzezinski]

118. Since you brought it up

That is the only stat going up. People with concealed weapon permits/ stand your ground/ castle doctrine...opening fire. Some justified, most...not really. We used to let a judge determine if self defense was...we shoud go back to that.

And I stand by what I said, I have a far better chance to give medical attention, iirc about five times off duty in ten years, than you have of ever clearing leather. A first aid course is a wiser investment.

[belcffub]

127. can you back that up???

that would be the first I have heard of this and this is something I tend to keep track up...

[nadinbrzezinski]

128. Yup, and the source is ironic.

Even as new data reveals that murder is on the decline in the United States, more people are killing each other and claiming self-defense — especially in states with “stand your ground” laws.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/license_to_kill_XJWAIIc9L61E5fNJJ3HVhN#ixzz1qwQWtMSN

I read it as quite frankly, given the non expected source, as a trial balloon.

[belcffub]

131. ok so looking over that article

______justifiable___With
______homicide____Firearm
2000____163_______X (They don't say if the rate changed to 80% in 2010)
2010____326_______260

Now during this time 7 states that banned concealed carry started allowing it and most of the 12 that were may issue states became shall issue states.

It stands to reason as more people get their CCW that the number of justifiable homicides would go up. What will never be known is how many of those people and others would not be here today had they not added their number to the justifiable homicide statistic.

Now during this same time period regular homicide went down by a number greater the justifiable homicide went up. Could it be that some people, in committing a justifiable homicide, moved a number from one column to the next. Were they actually justified...

What would be interesting number would be how many of justifiable homicides happened where the deceased was committing a felony. This would actually make these numbers much more useful. Without some reference point they are almost meaningless...

Articles like this use misleading references to statistics. It says "The rate of justifiable homicide tripled in Florida, according to the report". They do not give you a reference point. They don't mention that it went from 12 to 33. They also try to get the reader to infer that these were bad shots but do not go so far as to say so. It is mostly propaganda with just enough statistical information to get the gullible to agree with their point of view.

What percentage of these do you think are really justified?

[belcffub]

133. and how many of those justifiable homicides were law enforcement

Under Stand Your Ground law a spike in justifiable homicides but there may be many causes

The majority of justifiable homicides among civilians occurred during commission of a felony by the victim. But the data show fully 60 percent of all killings ruled justifiable from 2000 to 2010 in Florida involved shootings by police who, because they deal with armed criminals on a daily basis, are trained in the use of deadly force and granted greater leeway in applying it.

so from your earlier posting and what I have read elsewhere the number of justifiable homicides in Florida went from 12 to 32ish per year... but if 60% are committed by law enforcement you are probably talking about 14 non-law enforcement justifiable homicides.

[DevonRex]

27. He's a coward who takes a gun everywhere.

That's what cowards do.

[vr94rx7]

37. Are you a coward if you have a fire extinguisher or wear a seat belt?

[fascisthunter]

40. nah... I bring gasoline with me instead

yuh never know when you need to make a situation worse. Hey, and just maybe I'll need to fill up the gas tank... wow, man!

[pnwmom]

46. Fire extinguishers and seat belts don't accidentally kill children and other innocent people.

Guns can and do.

[DevonRex]

49. If I had a nickel for every screwup

I had to clean up that one of the Zimmerman types left along the way...

Just cuz he thinks he's Rambo or this is the wild west or he's scared of his fucking shadow or that maybe he will be a hero someday and people will finally notice him.

All they really do is fuck up and make the bad kind of news at worst. At best they brag and make fools out of themselves and don't have the sense to know it.

My motto is this: everybody is a lawabiding citizen until they aren't.

[vr94rx7]

56. Ok

My motto is this: everybody is a law abiding citizen until they aren't. What happens when you are confronted with a group/person that decides not to a law abiding citizen/s?

I carry a gun everyday. The last person i want to be is Rambo. If something bad happens and I need to use my gun here is what i would do.

1 walk away. If that doesn't work.
2 run away. If that doesn't work.
3 pull gun. If that doesn't work.
4 shoot until the threat is stopped.

The last thing I ever want to do is die. Second to that is shoot someone. I hope i never have to make that choice.

Edit: My gun is for my protection not yours. It is legal for me and you to carry. If you want to protect yourself you should carry, don't count for me to do that. Its not my job.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. My god what a fantasy

You forgot take cover and follow thrugh.

This is why progpfessionals who have a reason to carry go through tactical training regularly.

[vr94rx7]

72. I dont see it as a fantasy more like a nightmare.

Let us assume(I know what assuming does) What if Zimmerman was 100% justified in this shooting. Im not saying that he was, I wasn't there so I cant say what happened. If he was 100% correct shooting would you want to go through what he is? I dont see that as a fantasy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. What, the non existent wounds?

and skittles and a can of arizona iced tea? Last time I checked neither of those qualify as deadly weapons, not even close.

If you do what Zimmerman did, I will be asking for you to be tried...demand it...at least manslaughter, if not outright murder two. Add a few choice terms in the 911 tape, hate crime.

[vr94rx7]

90. My point is that if IF IF IF he was correct. Im 99% sure he wasnt.

would you want to go through what he is? IF IF IF that was the only choice he could make. I think it would marginally be better than being dead.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. I have been in those very rare situations

This s not a what if.

As a civilian my choice is to get away and into cover and call the cops.

It is not to get into a wild west shoot out.

Also statistically gun owners get shot with their own piece more often than not. Them are the stats. It might be my forty cal, dead I'd dead.

[vr94rx7]

95. thats why i said i would

1 walk away
2 run away
3 shoot to stop threat.

My carry gun is a .40 are you psychic?

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. 4- follow through if you are serious

No, I am not, that's what we own.

[PavePusher]

139. Ummm, yeah....

"Also statistically gun owners get shot with their own piece more often than not. Them are the stats."

Can you please show those stats? Thanks.

[zappaman]

148. Yikes!

"Them are the stats"...that I just made up, yup.

[PavePusher]

155. 3 days, no reply.....

"made up" is being quite charitable.

[spin]

101. ABC enhanced the video and it showed gashes on the back of Zimmerman's head...

Enhanced video shows Zimmerman head wound after Trayvon scuffle: ABC

Gash, but no blood or injury to shooter's nose

ABC News, which first broadcast video showing George Zimmerman appearing uninjured after his scuffle with Trayvon Martin, reported Monday that enhancing the video shows a wound on his head.

“There was no obvious sign of any injury to Zimmerman's head or face on the video until it was enhanced,” the network said.

The new CSI-style improved video shows a “gash or mark,” ABC said.

The enhanced video does not show any injury to Zimmerman's nose, nor any blood on his shirt.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/enhanced-video-shows-zimmerman-head-wound-trayvon-scuffle-abc-article-1.1054625#ixzz1qvYk1SoQ

(Note: I am in no way defending Zimmerman as I feel that (from the information that I have gleaned from the news at this time) that he didn't follow the advice of the dispatcher and confronted Martin. I merely posted this to point out that the story and the facts are changing on a daily basis and we have really no way of knowing what actually happened at this time.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

102. I am betting an old wound

Head wounds bleed like pigs.

[spin]

103. True...

My view is that this is a developing story and we have no knowledge about what the actual investigation is uncovering. Since the news media is changing their reports on a daily basis and revealing both rumors and some facts, it might be wise to wait until the dust settles.

[nadinbrzezinski]

104. The problem is the tape blew howitzer sized holes

Into zymmi's story.

Trust me, have met more than a few gents after a major fight, Zimmerman looks nothing like that...

Hell, he got out of the cruiser with ease, they are not easy to do that by design

What is true is that crime penny novel writers are furiously scribbling notes, life stranger than fiction and all that.

I am following this due to the civil rights implications, otherwise it is another murder in an American city.

[spin]

117. It will indeed be interesting to follow ...

and if Zimmerman ends up in court, it might end up being called the trial of the century.

[nadinbrzezinski]

119. The law itself is already, rightly so,

in crosshairs.

[chowder66]

79. My brother carries a gun to his work place at night when closing

and to the gun range in Texas. He has them at home and that's it. Avid gun collector but intensely careful and a very good shooting teacher. I asked him to teach me to shoot a gun because I was terrified of them and I thought it would help. It did, a little but I'm still nervous around them. Luckily I don't know anyone else that has them.

With that said, I have never owned a gun, never will. I have lived in Metropolitan cities my whole life. I walk everywhere and know where to avoid but sometimes I can't avoid everything. I use my instincts and that has worked for the most part. I have had a gun pointed at my head during the L.A. riots - a looter came into our neighborhood and started approaching a group of people standing outside - everyone scattered before I noticed he had a gun. No one said anything. I calmly turned around saw the gun pointed at my head and then calmly turned back around walking down the path between the apartments where I was in direct line with his gun. He didn't pull the trigger and I got inside safely. I was also caught in the middle of a street gun fight in Chicago but was obviously able to get away. I was not being shot at nor were my friends I was with. Two guys got out of a car on an L.A street one day and had guns and gave me a look I did not like. I didn't get shot.

Now having a gun with me in all of those instances would not have done anything different unless I decided to use it. I'm not one to kill people...... as you know you had better shoot with the intent to kill and not just harm. Most people cannot shoot effectively and you could set up a much, much worse situation for yourself.

I have my fears but I don't need a gun to pretend that those fears/dangers do not exist. People can kidnap you, lie in wait, attack at any moment, hit you with a car....the list goes on. If I get shot, I get shot. If it rains and I don't have an umbrella, I get wet.

I find that baseball bats, instinct and wits can be extremely effective and that means there is one less person with a gun who could make a mistake with it, have it stollen, be used for bad intent or be found and played with to an unfortunate end.

btw - I also don't own any other killing devices. Life is about living, it is not about everyone potentially being a killer.

[DevonRex]

81. Protect ME? Don't make me fucking laugh.

you know not to whom you speak. But I do know you're not LE so I don't want you within a mile of me if you're armed.

[vr94rx7]

100. Im not

Its not my job to protect anyone but myself. What does me not being a leo have to do with being around you? Im a nice person that is fun to be around. Im a blast lol.

[DevonRex]

106. Another Tim in OKC was a blast.

Blasted some buddies of mine through several walls and down many floors out into the street.

I saw them at the funerals. It's April again so they're on my mind.

That Tim carried guns everywhere too. Was afraid the govt was gonna take them away from him. Read his crazy books. Lived on the gun show circuit.

I wish somebody had told that Tim to just calm down, live life, get a girlfriend, put his toys away. Before he killed my friends, all those kids and other folks. For a fucking fantasy life.

You're not like him. Still, take care. Be happy and careful.

[vr94rx7]

109. Im sorry about your friends. I'm a blsat was a poor attempt at humor.

[DevonRex]

110. It's okay.

This time of year there's just about nothing that doesn't set me off.

I meant it when I said take care. Try to see the good when you can. Remember that bad stuff just happens sometimes. You can't prevent it all. Thinking you can just sets you up for massive guilt when it does happen, as it surely will.

[TheCowsCameHome]

54. I just knew it.........

[Warren Stupidity]

29. because it is Very Important for Hollywood Cowboys to be armed and dangerous at all times.

You never know when you might come across a scary black child who needs to be put down.


Dear Jury: this is sarcasm. Unfortunately it is also reality.

[Life Long Dem]

32. Maybe he was a mall cop wannabe too?

[snagglepuss]

38. self delete

J

[fascisthunter]

39. And so....? What does that have to do with stalking and murdering somebody

because of the color of their skin and the clothes they wear????

[sabrina 1]

41. Yes when I first read that, I wondered about it also. I wondered why he was behaving as if

he was in the capacity of a neighborhood watch captain when in fact he was not.

That was reported early on, but got lost in the rest of the story.

[onenote]

42. If you live in a state that allows concealed weapons and don't assume the guy next to you

in the store packing, you're just being naieve.

The short answer of why would someone with concealed weapon permit pack a gun when they go to the store? Because they can. (In other words, its not a question of "need to" its merely that he wanted to.

[pnwmom]

48. For all we know, Zimmerman, a Democrat, has been on DU arguing for the right

to carry his little concealed gun everywhere, all the time.

We see how that worked out.

[mainer]

66. I just saw on another thread that he's a Republican.

Or is the father a Republican and the son a Democrat?

So what's the truth?

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. Dad, none, that I am aware off, has brought George's party affiliation.

[pnwmom]

85. His supporters use his Democratic affiliation to argue that he isn't a racist. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. Southern Dixiecrat?

[pnwmom]

83. CNN says he's a registered Democrat.

His supporters use this to argue that he isn't racist.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/30/opinion/bennett-trayvon-martin/index.html

The Miami Herald reported that in the gated community in which Zimmerman patrolled, there were eight burglaries, nine thefts and one shooting in the past year. Neighbors of Zimmerman described him as being passionate about security and credit him with thwarting and cracking some crimes. It was also revealed that Zimmerman identified himself as a Hispanic and was a registered Democrat.

[alarimer]

50. He needed a gun because he is a paranoid freak.

This is the end result of lax gun laws and the NRA's stoking of paranoid freaks like Zimmerman.

[TheCowsCameHome]

55. Well, that's one. Gimme another.

You're on a roll.

[Blue_Tires]

52. My question is what did he see (or claim to see) Martin doing

That made his STOP his trip, follow Martin and call the police??

[Warren Stupidity]

53. he saw Martin being BLACK YUTE.

This was clear from the 9-11. Trayvon was guilty of being Black While Young.

[Blue_Tires]

58. True...I just want to read Zimmerman's "official" statement from that night

and add up the inconsistencies...

[Cali_Democrat]

61. Exactly

[Politicalboi]

63. I heard one time

That when it started raining, Trayvon stepped inside one of the front patios to get cover. Then when the rain let up a bit, he continued down to his dad's house. Still NO reason to shoot a kid doing nothing illegal.

[oldhippie]

67. I carry a gun pretty much whenever I leave the house ....

... even though I have never been attacked or threatened in any way.

I also wear my seatbelt every time I get in a car, even though I have never been in an accident.

I have fire extinguishers in my house and vehicles, even though I have never had a fire.

I wear eye and ear protection when I mow the lawn and use the weed eater, or power tools.

I have a very comprehensive family medical kit in my home and emergency kits in my vehicle.

I've spent 40 years with the US military.

Do you think I am a coward? Or fearful? Or scary?
Who has a problem? You? Me?

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Again

Crime is down

What has gone up are civilian on civilian shootings.

If it makes you feel safer, your chances of drawing and being the hero are less than winning the lottery unless you go looking for it.

But a gun is gas potentially and a source of escalation.

[hack89]

76. You keep saying that - care to provide some actual facts? nt

[kramerv]

114. X2

There are no such statistics.

[zappaman]

149. Suffice it to say...

Why use facts when you can just make things up?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

142. Yes, I do.

I live across the street from a an honest to goodness crack house. I have wandered around some of the worst parts of town in the wee hours. I have been caught literally right in the middle of a bunch of gangbangers flashing their guns at each other. I have come face to face with a burglar.

Guess what? I have never owned a gun. I don't own a gun now. I don't need a gun.

Oh yeah, I'm also a woman. A 5'4 woman.

[shadowrider]

71. I carry eveywhere I go. No big deal.

I haven't shot anyone, have no desire to shoot anyone and will only pull the weapon when my life, or the lives of my family, is in imminent danger.

I find I'm exceptionally polite, even moreso when carrying.

[alcibiades_mystery]

82. They carry guns everywhere, like imaginary medieval knights with their swords

They also expend a good deal of energy trying to convince everybody that this sort of thing is normal.

They're all fucking kookoo-bananas.

[tledford]

84. He was on his way to hold it up. eom

[spin]

92. Yes. Some people with carry permits do carry on a regular basis ...

For example I have a Florida Concealed Weapons permit and I carry everywhere that it is legal. Today I left the house to drive a child to and from a school and my carry weapon remained behind. Normally on the way out the door I grab my snub nosed .38 revolver and its holster and slide both into my pants pocket.

I suppose you might consider me and others like me to be lunatics because we carry a firearm when we go to a restaurant or to a big box store. I have no problem with that as you have every right to your opinion.

However I can point out that Florida has had "shall issue" concealed carry since October of 1987. In that period of time the state has issued 2,145,632 concealed weapons permits and currently 906,924 are valid. Only 168 licenses have been revoked in during all those years because the holder committed a crime involving the use of a firearm after the license was issued. Since you can lose your license for a number of reasons such as brandishing your weapon or carrying it into a restricted area, not all of the 168 licenses that were revoked involved shooting. (source: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.pdf)

Therefore it is obvious that Zimmerman (assuming that he is guilty) is an aberration and does not represent the average person who has a carry permit in Florida.

While you might feel that I am excessively paranoid and should seek counseling for my fear, let me assure you that I fully realize that there is very little chance that I might ever have to use my weapon for legitimate self defense. In fact I hope and pray that I never will. Unfortunately crime does happen and I prefer to be prepared for whatever life decides to throw at me. I also wear a seat belt when I drive short distances and I have a fire extinguisher 10 feet from where I am typing. I might be wrong but I have a strong suspicion that most often bad things happen to people who feel that it could never happen to them.

I don't racially profile others. We recently had the pleasure of having a young black man room in our house and helped him get his driver's license and a job. He has moved out but is a close friend of my grandson and often stops by to visit. We have also have had Hispanics live with us in our large home which was once a hotel. We have a good number of friends who are black or Hispanic.

When I am sitting on the porch and a black individual wearing a hoodie walks past my home, I don't panic even if his pants are sagging. There's one young guy who passes that I nicknamed "Captain Underpants" but I have never considered him a threat.

I am not a cop wannabe or a vigilante and I don't know any other people with carry permits who feel that way. It's easy to make false assumptions about people who legally carry firearms as the media has a definite bias against the practice.

Perhaps the reason that those who legally carry concealed in Florida rarely abuse that privilege is that before a person gets a license the state runs a background check. I'm 65 years old and have only a couple of traffic violations on my record and the last was 20 years ago. Obviously I am not an individual with a criminal background or an anger management problem.

But of course you can chose to believe what the media publishes and form the opinion that Florida has a large number of racist individuals who try to start fights in order to blow someone away and then hide behind the "Stand Your Ground" law. Everybody knows that you can trust the media to always report in an accurate and unbiased manner and that it never has an agenda. (At least the media wants you to believe that.)

I should also point out that I and many other people carry a concealed firearm almost everywhere we go because we spent the money and the time to obtain a license to do so. Do most people get a driver's license without the intention of driving?

You might argue that I should only carry my concealed weapon if I felt that I was traveling to a truly dangerous area. I would reply that the best way to survive a gunfight is not to be in one. I avoid going to areas that have an extremely high crime rate unless I have no choice. I also do not visit outdoor ATMs at 2 am. I practice "situational awareness" which means I don't walk around with a cell phone glued to my ear but am alert to my surroundings. If my radar goes off and I suspect problems I just leave before something bad occurs.

My approach to life may vary considerably from yours but people do differ. That doesn't mean that you are right and I'm wrong or that I am right and you are wrong. Different opinions and life styles are what make our world so interesting.

[jpak]

98. Because, in the sick world of gun hero wannabees - the opportunity for gun heroism is everywhere

and they must maintain "situational awarenes" (AKA "racial profiling&quot at all times.

yup

[kramerv]

113. Wow

So you've done a fine job at stereotyping people who own and carry guns. So I guess profiling is OK then.

[fascisthunter]

99. ...because! Ya Never knowwwwwww!

[Marrah_G]

107. George can try to convince a jury that he carries a weapon to go to target

it's only a matter of time.

[gkhouston]

112. Of course he took a gun to Target. He wanted to be sure to get double value on his coupons. n/t

[Aerows]

120. Because of their low low prices

but they can't match Wal-mart's low low low child labor prices?

[riverwalker]

126. if you need a gun to go to Target

you have a problem, a serious problem. It means you see everyone as a possible threat to your life. Not in a war zone, in your community. That is ....lets say....strange.

[ScottLand]

132. Maybe you didn't hear the whole sentence: "I was on my way to target....suspicious-looking people."

[E-Z-B]

136. He's saying this to protect the Homeowner's Association and his friends within it from lawsuits.

[onehandle]

141. Paranoia. nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

146. That's CCW for you. I don't get it, but whatever.

My father in law (former cop) takes his little toy everywhere, even to church. And we live in a very low crime area.

Apparently the thinking is a gun battle will break out anywhere at any time. I can't imagine living in constant fear like that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

150. As a former cop I get it actually

it is not that a gun battle may break out, just that a former customer might come hunting. That is why they keep their CCW after they retire.

For the record, at least my SIL and BIL who retired from LAPD are required to re-qualify at the range every so often to keep their CCW. There is something wrong when many civilians are not required to even qualify the first time.

There are people out there who honestly need a CCW... cops and retired cops come to mind. There are some civilians who honestly need them too. But there are FAR LESS than actual CCW out there... that is the problem.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

151. I guess in that limited situation it might make sense.

But beyond current and former LEOs, it gets a lot more skeptical.

For the record, I don't own any guns, concealed or in-house, nor do I have any desire to (unless I happen to witness a mafia murder). Still, I'm not opposed to someone keeping a single handgun in their house, so long as it is kept safely and away from children. Or--while I am not a hunter nor am I a big fan of hunting--I still don't have a problem with someone keeping a hunting rifle in their house, again so long as it is safely stored and kept away from children.

But honestly, people who feel the need to stockpile multiple guns in their house, including semi-automatic or automatic weapons, or people who (other than the limited circumstances that you and I recognize) feel the need to arm themselves so that they can feel they are the law or who feel in constant fear that they will become the victim of some horrible shootout--I just don't get that mentality. At all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

153. I could have qualified

Due to some of the customers I transported as a medic.

That would have been ten years ago.

I chose not to.

We own a couple, I am a really bad shot. I mean that. We enjoy the target range once in a while. That's the extent of it.

[Codeine]

158. A former cop who is "a really bad shot"?

Hmm.

[zappaman]

154. I was a cop too.

Here...

[SlimJimmy]

159. You are a former cop? From where? I've never heard you mention that before.

[Codeine]

160. To be fair,

one can't pull EVERYTHING out of one's ass all at once.

[SlimJimmy]

161. That's a pretty heavy claim she's making. I'd like details.

[Codeine]

162. The only details we'll get are snarky comments about Ignore lists and

yet another self-delete followed by stonewalling and passive aggression.

[zappaman]

163. +100 and a kick n/t

[ileus]

152. Never roam alone.

I don't.