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Playinghardball

(11,665 posts)
Tue Apr 3, 2012, 11:13 PM Apr 2012

Scientist reveals how he made bird flu that could spread between people

A scientist whose work was deemed too dangerous to publish by US biosecurity advisers revealed for the first time on Tuesday how he created a hybrid bird flu virus that is spread easily by coughs and sneezes. In a conference presentation that was webcasted live to the public, he has detailed how his team created the deadly virus.

Prof Yoshihiro Kawaoka at the University of Wisconsin-Madison described experiments that pinpointed four genetic mutations enabling the virus to spread between ferrets kept in neighbouring cages. The animals are considered the best models of how the infection might spread between people.

In December, the US National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity (NSABB) called for key sections of Kawaoka’s work to be deleted from a paper in press at the British science journal Nature, amid fears that a rogue state or bioterrorist group might use the information to create a biological weapon.

The NSABB raised similar concerns over a paper by Dr Ron Fouchier at Erasmus Medical Centre in Rotterdam. That study, describing another mutant bird flu strain that can also be spread through the air between ferrets, is under consideration at the US journal Science.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/03/scientist-reveals-how-he-made-bird-flu-that-could-spread-between-people/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story%29

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Scientist reveals how he made bird flu that could spread between people (Original Post) Playinghardball Apr 2012 OP
If we ban human communicable bird flu... jberryhill Apr 2012 #1
I have an idea, lets outlaw the flu. Then it will go away n/t Kurska Apr 2012 #6
If I remember correctly Mojorabbit Apr 2012 #2
As it becomes easier and easier for one crazed person to wreak havoc on the world Speck Tater Apr 2012 #3
The SARS outbreak...was very communicable... nenagh Apr 2012 #4
A crazed person??? This project was created and funded by the Plutocracy. Zalatix Apr 2012 #5
Heinlein said it best... Speck Tater Apr 2012 #7
Except that it's never just one guy; he didn't decide to create this on his own, that's not how it HiPointDem Apr 2012 #9
Bingo. He was not imprisoned, or even fired. Zalatix Apr 2012 #12
I should clairfy the very important distinction I want to make... Speck Tater Apr 2012 #14
Unfortunately, that's not necessarily true Duer 157099 Apr 2012 #8
Science ought not cower from threats of "terror." nt sudopod Apr 2012 #10
Mad scientist, anybody? MrScorpio Apr 2012 #11
See post 9. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #13
No; this is important research muriel_volestrangler Apr 2012 #15
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
1. If we ban human communicable bird flu...
Tue Apr 3, 2012, 11:33 PM
Apr 2012

...then only criminals will have human communicable bird flu.

Any law abiding citizen should be able to carry it.

Mojorabbit

(16,020 posts)
2. If I remember correctly
Tue Apr 3, 2012, 11:35 PM
Apr 2012

they were surprised at how little mutation it would take for it to cause a horribly virulent pandemic.

 

Speck Tater

(10,618 posts)
3. As it becomes easier and easier for one crazed person to wreak havoc on the world
Wed Apr 4, 2012, 12:26 AM
Apr 2012

the time will inevitably come when one crazed person will wreak havoc on the world.

The human race will (not might, mind you, but WILL) self-destruct. There's really no credible way to prevent it, with the possible exception that some natural disaster or severe resource depletion will leave us without the technology to continue on our path of self destruction.

Perhaps we'll all be better off stuck permanently in the 1700's using sailing ships and steam locomotives and having 1/8th the present population. There certainly isn't enough easy-to-reach petroleum to re-enact the industrial revolution. Once we lose technology, we've lost it forever.

nenagh

(1,925 posts)
4. The SARS outbreak...was very communicable...
Wed Apr 4, 2012, 12:34 AM
Apr 2012

As a Canadian, I remember health care workers losing their lives.. As well as patients.

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
5. A crazed person??? This project was created and funded by the Plutocracy.
Wed Apr 4, 2012, 12:36 AM
Apr 2012

This ain't a tin foil hat thing.

This disease is manufactured. It is absolutely devastating. It cannot possibly be anything but the most classic and terrible of weapons of mass destruction.

Yoshihiro Kawaoka is not behind bars for creating this monster virus. He already created it, the text says it plainly. Any tinfoil hat factor here depends entirely on this story being inaccurate. Stop and think about this for a second: Yoshihiro Kawaoka is not under the fraking prison for creating a weapon of mass destruction.

Why is he not under the prison? There's only one logical reason, he was commissioned to do this and now he's speaking out.

Now ask yourself why this disease was commissioned...

 

Speck Tater

(10,618 posts)
7. Heinlein said it best...
Wed Apr 4, 2012, 01:29 AM
Apr 2012

"Never attribute to conspiracy that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
9. Except that it's never just one guy; he didn't decide to create this on his own, that's not how it
Wed Apr 4, 2012, 01:56 AM
Apr 2012

works.

So in that his research would have been vetted, approved and funded by others, I think it's not stupidity.

Edit to add that the whole history of germ warfare research in this country in others wasn't just stupid people idly following their curiosity. It was research -- and human experimentation -- deliberately and knowingly undertaken for military purposes, defensive and aggressive.

Edit to add that the guy is a prof at U Madison and he was publishing a paper in Nature -- which had already been accepted ("a paper in press&quot

Prof Yoshihiro Kawaoka at the University of Wisconsin-Madison described experiments...

In December, the US National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity (NSABB) called for key sections of Kawaoka’s work to be deleted from a paper in press at the British science journal Nature


Not some crazed person. Someone supported by the research establishment. Note that no one's called for him to be fired, or for the paper not to be published (minus the deletions of certain sections), or for the research to be halted.

So apparently no one with any power thinks he or his research is "crazed". They just don't want the details to be generally available.

 

Speck Tater

(10,618 posts)
14. I should clairfy the very important distinction I want to make...
Wed Apr 4, 2012, 12:27 PM
Apr 2012

The person who does RESEARCH and DISCOVERS something dangerous is very probably part of a large team or organization, probably funded by government, and should be accountable for negligence. That person is obviously NOT a "crazed individual".

Once that something has been discovered, it may become possible for a single person or very small group of people, to implement that discovery without requiring that much in the way of resources.

That was my whole point. Technology is putting more and more dangerous things like this within the reach of crazed individuals, or small groups of terrorists who don't have to discover new dangerous things, because those things have already been discovered and published.

Duer 157099

(17,742 posts)
8. Unfortunately, that's not necessarily true
Wed Apr 4, 2012, 01:31 AM
Apr 2012

Scientists often do things just to do them.They are driven by curiosity. Most don't need any prodding whatsoever to do something like this.

MrScorpio

(73,630 posts)
11. Mad scientist, anybody?
Wed Apr 4, 2012, 02:11 AM
Apr 2012

Did he scream, "It's alive!" the first time he saw his creation under a microscope?

Thanks for making the Luddites look good, buddy.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,307 posts)
15. No; this is important research
Wed Apr 4, 2012, 07:29 PM
Apr 2012
Kawaoka also mounted a vigorous defense of the studies' importance, pointing out that they formed part of an established research program deemed important in reports by the U.S. National Institutes of Health and the World Health Organization, and that similar transmission studies had been carried out and published for years. He spoke at length about the safety and security procedures at his lab.

Meanwhile, the reasons for the change of heart at NSABB—which one attendee described as having "multiple personality disorder"—came under scrutiny as well. NSABB acting chair Paul Keim explained that the group was swayed by new and confidential information about both the risks and the potential benefits of the studies and by the fact that the U.S. government is putting in place a new policy that will provide a much more comprehensive review of so-called dual use research of concern. It had also concluded that redacting critical information and making it available only to people with a legitimate interest in seeing it was, at least in the short run, unworkable.

But another key reason, Keim said, was that Fouchier has revised and expanded his manuscript, which now makes clear that the newly created virus isn't deadly when transmitted from one ferret to another through sneezing and coughing. Based on Fouchier's first manuscript and interviews he gave in the press, the board was under the impression that the virus was lethal under those conditions, too, says Robert Webster, an influenza virologist at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in Memphis, Tennessee, who advised NSABB during both its first and second review. "That scared the jesus out of everyone," he says.

Once the group had read the revised paper, it became clear that it was all a "giant misunderstanding," Webster says. At a press conference yesterday, Fouchier said the information about virulence was in the original paper, although perhaps not presented as clearly as it could have been because the paper was short.

http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2012/04/free-to-speak-kawaoka-reveals-fl.html


From December:

According to information already available, however, Fouchier essentially generated his new virus using the 19th-century approach of growing it in an animal over and over again. After ten transfers, the virus had adapted to ferrets. This experiment does not need complex laboratory facilities. An egg incubator, a supply of fertilised hens eggs and a syringe are all that are needed. I grew litres of virus this way when I used to work on bird flu. And ferrets are freely available: my great-uncle used them to hunt rabbits. The most difficult task would be getting some H5N1 virus.

Fouchier has identified five mutations in two genes that are responsible for the change in the virus. Knowing what they are could be a vitally important tool in the rapid detection of new H5N1 strains in the wild with significant pandemic potential. And if terrorists wanted to hot up H5N1 they would be much more likely to use the ferret approach than genetic engineering based on gene sequences. So the sequences should be published: the benefit to public protection greatly outweighs the risk. If they are seriously concerned about the terrorist threat from flu, MI5 should consider keeping an eye on anyone who buys an egg incubator, and recommend that the government introduce a ferret licensing scheme.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2011/12/21/hugh-pennington/ferrets-of-mass-destruction/
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