Should mental health diagnoses be available for federal firearm background checks?

[Snake Alchemist]

I keep seeing people lamenting that "sick" people are allowed to purchase guns, but how exactly should "sick" people be identified? By a multiple choice test, by the cut of their jib, or are people proposing that we allow mental health diagnoses be available for review during federal firearm background checks?

[cbdo2007]

1. Sure, it's basically codes 290.0-319

Unfortunately that would require them to have had some type of treatment and most crazy people haven't been diagnosed.

[Snake Alchemist]

2. Virginia shooter had treatment. nt

[TheWraith]

25. Yes, but that treatment information wasn't available to the NICS system.

Which it was actually supposed to be. NICS does cover people adjudicated mentally ill. But cbdo2007 makes a good point: getting the information to the system is a logistical problem, but diagnosing people before they do something crazy is much more difficult. That's the problem with all attempts to aggressively diagnose mental illness, not just with a background check but before they do anything destructive of self or others.

Also, what point is too aggressive in looking for danger? There have been examples of state systems flagging returning veterans who are otherwise fine because they got standard post-deployment PTSD counseling, not because they're a real threat.

[slackmaster]

3. No. Most bureaucrats, elected officials, and law enforcement people have no qualifications...

...to translate a diagnosis into an objective, rational decision affecting a person's civil rights.

Adjudications of mental incompetence, and information about involuntary commitments beyond whatever period law enforcement people can impose them (in California it's 72 hours per Welfare and Institutions Code Section 5150) should be available for background check purposes.

[Snake Alchemist]

5. Just devils advocate here, but #'s could be assigned.

Clinical depression = 7, no sale. Schizophrenia = 10, no sale. OCD = 3, sale. etc.

[slackmaster]

9. All of those conditions come in wide ranges of severity and flavors

Most people with those particular three diagnoses respond to medication, and can live normal lives with proper medical care.

For example, about 80% of people who are diagnosed with clinical depression can be treated successfully with medication and minimal psychotherapy.

[Snake Alchemist]

12. I suppose it would be up to the treating psychiatrist to enter and update the # code depending

on the original diagnosis and effectiveness of treatment over time.

[slackmaster]

15. That would cost the patient/applicant for a gun permit money

Maybe lots of it.

[Snake Alchemist]

17. Very true. I wonder if single payer was ever implemented if it would make a difference. nt

[cbdo2007]

14. Yet, any person with a history of clinical depression should still not be allowed to buy a gun.

Why do they need it? Especially if they can just go off their meds at any time and go back to their depressive state.

[slackmaster]

16. What's the person's recourse for challenging a diagnosis?

Sometimes a diagnosis turns out to be inaccurate. For example, transient situational melancholia can be misdiagnosed as clinical depression. You can always pay for a second opinion from a different doctor, but no doctor ever has an obligation to recant a diagnosis. (Having worked with many doctors, I doubt that many of them could ever be convinced to do that.)

BTW, most people who have a diagnosis of clinical depression are not dangerous to themselves or to anyone else.

[cbdo2007]

18. So you want the other 49% to have easy access to guns??

Sounds like a great plan. Let's go ahead and get guns for all the ex-cons too. Well, only the nonviolent ones or the ones who have moved past that part of their lives.

[slackmaster]

21. A number pulled out of your ass and an obvious straw man don't make good conversation starters

[former9thward]

4. It would discourage people from getting needed mental health.

If people with even minor emotional issues knew that getting mental health treatment would be used against them in a potential gun purchase, then they would likely not get the treatment.

[Snake Alchemist]

7. What if it's just used to limit firearms for moderate to severe mental illness? nt

[former9thward]

20. The problem is the definition of "moderate" or "severe"

Who makes that distinction? I certainly think that guns should be denied to those who have been institutionalized but I think there would be unintended consequences if they were denied just because someone sought mental health treatment.

[Snake Alchemist]

22. I suppose we would have to leave it to the mental health professionals. nt

[NNN0LHI]

6. Police are given a psychological fitness test before they are allowed to carry a gun

How about we give the same test to civilians who apply for any concealed carry permit?

Don

[cbdo2007]

10. How often are these updated??

[provis99]

28. the test given ensures that they are brutal and thuggish.

exactly the sorts they are looking fore.

[pscot]

8. They should be mandatory

[guitar man]

11. I'm concerned about

The potential for abuse of such a system. The right wing has been preaching for years about how "liberalism is a mental defect" and their drug addled hero has said that liberals guns should be taken away.

I'm not dead set against implementation of such a system, but caution is in order. "Guns for me and not for thee" is one of the RW's wildest wet dreams.

[lisa caufield]

13. Really? You want your leaders making more laws against you?

All of you could be diagnosed mental by an authority who doesn't like what you say on the internet. Remember how horrible the jews were? Yeah, that's my point. Gun ownership is important for protecting your home but more important for keeping your gov't knowing that they should fear you and not the other way around.

[joeybee12]

19. Interesting 5th post....

Can't wait for your 6th...

[obamanut2012]

27. lol

[davidthegnome]

23. Anyone can purchase a gun

Not everyone can do it legally, but there are enough to go around and plenty of willing dealers in the black market. The simple fact of the matter is that you really cant stop someone from having a fire arm in this Country, access to them is simply too available. Hell, there are sites on the internet with step by step instructions on how to create your own.

If you're worried about mentally unstable individuals owning dangerous weapons, well, we have a whole hell of a lot of them - they're usually called conservatives. Frankly, I think conservatism is a mental illness and that anyone who frequently votes Republican should be banned from owning a weapon of any sort.

Ultimately, I don't think it would make the least bit of difference.

[X_Digger]

24. Nope, HIPPA and due process.

If an individual has gone through the due process of a court proceeding to involuntarily institutionalize them, then and only then should their rights be infringed.

Cops pawing through medical records? Not on my watch, thanks.

[obamanut2012]

26. Yes

Said as a firearm owner and CCW permit holder.