Who's more honest: Snowden/Greenwald or the federal government?

I might trust many parts of the federal government, and totally distrust other parts.

And could be scaled as well. I'm sure there are both trustworthy and untrustworthy types in many of the individual agencies.

One I hadn't thought of in that way.

But taken as a whole, I do not believe either is "Honest" ... But for different reasons. The Government for, arguably, (though not in the DU world) legitimate reasons, i.e., national security; whereas, ES/GG/JA, are untrustworthy to protect their franchise/profits.

But how is ES profiting here? Seems to me he was making phat stacks of cash and living large while he worked for the NSA, and gave that up for crappy hotel rooms and bad food and being stuck in a backwards country.

And given the government history of misusing intelligence to spy on minorities and civil rights groups, I'm rather surprised you trust the government - they've got a many decades long history of bad behaviour, and nothing really to suggest they've ever cleaned up their act.

First, do we really know how snowden is living? Does anyone know how he is paying his rent and eating everyday?

And then, again, we do not know what snowden values ... is having fat stacks and living large more important than celebrity?



I didn't say I trust the government ... in fact, I said I don't believe the government to be honest; but, I do recognize that government has a legitimate reason for its lack a transparency.

Why is there any reason to believe that Snowden is living any better than crappy hotels and bad food? Of the three, GG is probably monetarily profiting off of this more than anyone, and I haven't heard anyone suggesting that he's suddenly living like a 'high roller'. So no, I don't know for sure what his living arrangements are atm, but I haven't seen any evidence that he's better off now than he was when he was making 200k a year, living in Hawaii with a 'hot girlfriend'.

Second, one of the main charges AGAINST Snowden before was that he knew what he knew years earlier, but waited until after Obama was in office to do what he did. Would a man truly obsessed with celebrity have waited years to be a celebrity when he didn't have to? Occam's razor seems to say to me that he did what he said he did - waited in hopes that the President would rein in an agency wildly overreaching, then went public when even a Dem president failed to change things begun under Bush.

Though call.

Government cannot be trusted......government is too big....government needs to slim down.....starve the untrustworthy government of tax funds....drown in bathtub.....etc....etc....etc.....

Just not fighting a war against the 99% at the pleasure of the wealthiest

Ergo, it should become trustworthy, among other things.

It is not our job to 'trust' government'. Which is why we have what sunshine laws that we do, and why we need even more. We pay for government, we should be free to know pretty much every boring detail of what is done by government in our names or under the assertion that it is being done 'for our good'.

Government should not be a 'black box' into which we pour money and trust.

And government entities need to be the right size for the tasks being performed. In the case of the VA, in the aftermath of a decade of war, that means much larger, obviously.

Only he was talking about Republicans. Interesting intersection.

The goal is to paint the government as a sinister entity that cannot be trusted. This plays into the hands of conservatives.

that people keep telling me don't exist on DU.

There is a good thread at

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5161256

where you can take a quiz to see how much of a Democrat/Green/Republican/Libertarian you are. Try it.

Attempting to paint DUers as Libertarians because of their position on this one issue shows a lack of understanding of the political spectrum.

their complete lack of concern about other issues ... Issues that involve more than their personal interests.

Plenty of people defend libertarian ideas, like toll booths on interstates, free trade agreements, education reform, etc.

You know, the meat and potatoes kind of stuff libertarians love to harp on about.

“America does not have a functioning democracy at this point in time."
- Jimmy Carter, 2013

Undermining trust in our government! Scoundrel!

but you know that, right?

he was referring to politics. But you know that, too.

He was referring to Operation Spy On Everyone:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/18/1224679/-Jimmy-Carter-Defends-Snowden-and-Says-America-does-not-have-a-functioning-democracy

But you knew that.

as opposed to the ability of government to provide services to the American people in a competent manner. Wait ... wasn't that what Reich was talking about ... the republicans (and apparently others) attempting to convince people that government can do no good for the American people?

Some sitcoms should have never lived on after their pilot episode.

The only human beings one should trust are those you know personally. And even then...well...keep your eyes open.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

I don't see a conflict there, myself.

unleashes Free Market Forces on you, he whispers...

"Ha-ha! The Swarm was right! I *am* a Libertarian! A Libertarian Zombie Vampire!!!" Which is the truth, of course.

Here's a pic of him about to sink his Libertarian Zombie Vampire fangs into dreaded Socialist Kshama Sawant:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5134508

Yum! Socialists are good eatin'!!!

Snowden and Greenwald are far more honest. The government hasn't been able to disavow a single document they've released. But the government has in the past denied doing what the documents are showing they have done.

By any measure of honesty, this isn't even close.

pick our fights. I don't have enough energy for both.

nt

Interesting loophole?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1013&pid=3332

Members whose transparency pages are showing will not be restricted in any other way. They can even still send alerts. But they cannot post and they cannot serve on juries.

always become leaders.

"If you criticize the government the terrorist have already won."