A Chinese Student’s Story of Job-Hunting in the US

[bart95]

A Chinese Student’s Story of Job-Hunting in the US
Tuesday, April 3rd, 2012 at 8:18 pm
For international students, the job-hunting process is never easy. Even once you’ve figured out the U.S. application standards well enough to land an internship, it does not mean a full-time job is guaranteed – you have to find a company willing to sponsor your work visa (H-1B). A lot of Americans find their full-time jobs as a result of their internships, but for international students it’s much more complicated.

International students who want to stay in the US after completing their education have to find a job – or at least an internship – within three months after their graduation in order to obtain Optional Practical Training (OPT) status, which allows them to stay for another year legally (or up to 29 months for certain science and technology students). By the day that OPT expires, if they are still not able to find an employer to sponsor their working visa, they have to leave the United States



http://blogs.voanews.com/student-union/2012/04/03/getting-a-job-in-the-us/

[virgogal]

1. Not one ounce of sympathy here. Two of my now middle aged "kids" ,

both with MBAs,were out of work for about 18 months each a couple of years ago.

They also have families.

They did find work but it was awful.

[liberalhistorian]

16. None from me either.

My college student son can't even find a menial job anywhere doing anything, let alone an internship, and many of his equally qualified fellow students are in the same boat and getting desperate. Why the hell should any international student, I don't care where they're from, take any precedence whatsoever over American students? It's being said that this economy may very well be dooming this newest generations's job and financial prospects for decades to come, but where are the stories and articles of "concern" about THAT?

This is at least the third such poor-international-students-and-their-heartfelt-struggles-to-get-a-job-amid-all-the-required-red-tape-oh-poor-them article I've read in the past few weeks from various media. WTF is up with that? And why are they then subsequently ignoring the plight of young American workers and college students/graduates???

[lumberjack_jeff]

2. Here's a problem we can fix.

Issue fewer student visas, and there will be fewer sad stories of the trials and difficulty faced by foreign graduates hoping to displace american workers.

[GopperStopper2680]

3. Let the Chinese Kid go home to China.

That's where all the American jobs are!

[Zalatix]

12. +1000!! n/t

[liberalhistorian]

17. Oh SNAP!

LOL

[Snake Alchemist]

4. They're just doing the work that Americans won't do, trying to make a better life, etc., etc. nt

[Xyzse]

5. See the problem I have with this::

Coming from a party that promotes amnesty for Illegals is that these people actually try to do things legally and get shut out.

Why is it that I get a lot of sob stories about allowing illegals in to America and keeping them here when those who try to get here legally, through hard work, their own money with all the fees they had to go through to get here, they get to be put at the back of the line?

Yes jobs are hard to come by, but it is ok to allow lesser skilled individuals to come in to do the dirty jobs? These people get taken advantage of because they want to follow the rules and do.

Though yes, it is hard to get a job nowadays but deporting or forcing people to leave after just 3 months of not finding a job(after graduation) is ridiculous.

[bart95]

6. 'Though yes, it is hard to get a job nowadays but'

Last edited Wed Apr 4, 2012, 04:50 PM - Edit history (1)

what can you possibly say after the title of this post, to justify making it even worse?

See, the problem I have with that is that we are supposed to be looking out for our own citizens

[Xyzse]

14. Really?

I am merely explaining that my problem is that they give a lot of leeway to illegal immigrants while short-changing those that actually try to do things legally.

Now explain to me why this makes things worse, when many of those who come from other countries to study in US Universities tend to take Science and Engineering degrees that many here don't take. In doing so the US is also suffering the Brain drain of that talent moving to different countries to expand and create new industries such as renewable energy.

While of course allowing illegals to take low to mid skill work which actually affects job prospects of Psych, Lit grads where the number of actual jobs in those fields are limited.

In essence, the problem here I see is not this as to me this is a symptom. The issue is the way the tax system STILL rewards industries that off-shore jobs instead of improving development and infrastructure here.

Secondly, I also take issue with the Education system of America that makes many students unable to excel in advanced scientific and engineering degrees needed to make this workforce strong. No Child Left Behind has been a miserable no abysmall failure. While certain politicians are trying their hardest to keep education standards and higher education achievement low.

[Xyzse]

20. Also!

Do note the advanced engineering and science degrees are dominated by asian and middle eastern students in terms of numbers.

In pushing them back to their countries, which is this Country's right, you take the Industries that would hire them merely to develop infrastructure in their country rather than in the US. Stating that, research and development, money and jobs will then head there as well, along with the secondary and tertiary industries that spring up to support what is done.

The problem in America is that it is slowly turning in to a Service Industry and Marketing Country rather than one that creates and innovates.

Fix the problem of off-shoring work, and if necessary get the work force here. In creating infrastructure and research here where it then creates growth.

Secondly, education is key, the US work force needs to improve on that drastically.

[bart95]

23. H-1b is called 'The Outsourcing visa' by India's commerce minister

please spare us the 'jobs will go offshore without these visas' line

that's been debunked for years

The Outsourcing VisaI

n his floor statement on H-1B Visa Reform, Senator Dick Durbin stated "The H-1B visa job lasts for 3 years and can be renewed for 3 years. What happens to those workers after that? Well, they could stay. It is possible. But these new companies have a much better idea for making money. They send the engineers to America to fill spots--and get money to do it--and then after the 3 to 6 years, they bring them back to work for the companies that are competing with American companies. They call it their outsourcing visa. They are sending their talented engineers to learn how Americans do business and then bring them back and compete with those American companies."[57] Critics of H-1B use for outsourcing have also noted that more H1-B visas are granted to companies headquartered in India than companies headquartered in the United States.[58]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa

[Xyzse]

37. That cuts both ways.

I know differing countries send their workers here to learn American business practices.
What of it? Does that mean that we shouldn't keep workers here to have actual industries here working rather than have it mostly offshore?

Again, to me the problem of these workers can be more appropriately addressed by going after the larger problem of the tax rewards for off-shoring, as well as creating a better educated work force.

Also stating that research and development should be done within the country rather than off-shore, I don't think most could disagree with.

Jobs have gone off-shore, much technical work is done outside the country nowadays, along with the development projects that happen due to such things.

Reading what is mentioned where companies have figured out how to make money by sending workers in to America first to learn business practices and sending it back to a different country to make it cheaper is a fair point. However, there are definitely quite a few companies who are looking to fill workers but can not find much who are qualified in America as it gets specific. So of course they go to a country with a better educated work force and cheaper to boot. Couple that with the way they can declare losses in America while most of their profits are off-shore, well it screws the public even more.

Still, I posit that without a sufficient work force in the US to fill jobs, be it due to education and so forth, those industries will not be here and created elsewhere.

[bart95]

39. 'looking to fill workers but can not find much who are qualified in America'

sorry, that one's been debunked too - got another cheap labor talking point?



Immigration attorneys from Cohen & Grigsby explains how they assist employers in running classified ads with the goal of NOT finding any qualified applicants, and the steps they go through to disqualify even the most qualified Americans in order to secure green cards for H-1b workers.

[xfundy]

34. "America is ... slowly turning in to a Service Industry and Marketing Country"

Yes. That's what the Repiglikkkans promised us during the Bush Error. "A Service Economy."

Only the only ones who get the "service" are the 1% and their Repig enablers.

Not to cast asparagus, of course. I am series.

[Snake Alchemist]

7. You missed the memo.

Taking blue collar jobs is acceptable. Taking white collar jobs is unacceptable.

[bart95]

8. it's not a 'white vs blue collar' thing

you know, if this whole h-1b/L1 visa nightmare, I've heard every false accusation there is, and the 'you didnt care about blue collar workers' is one of my biggest pet peaves

that's total BS

post one single link showing an identifiable tech worker expressing indifference to blue collar jobs being lost

NOTE: POLITICIANS AND MEDIA PEOPLE'S WORDS DO NOT COUNT - THEIR WORDS DID NOT COME FROM OUR MOUTHS, PLEASE DO NOT PUT THEM THERE!!!!!

we get accused of being part of the 'it's ok that manufacturing is being lost, eveyone can get tech jobs' propaganda of the mid 1990s

from pure self interest, why the hell would we ever say that?!?!? 'let your ship sink, come swamp our lifeboat?'

[Snake Alchemist]

11. No, but those who romanticize illegal immigration tend to not do the same when it comes to

H1B and other visa workers.

[Xyzse]

15. Precisely!

Which is why I have a huge problem with those that attack those who try to do things legally. Why do they have to be demonized while those who jump the border gets embraced by the population stating the separation of family and so forth. That happens with Legal immigrants as well.

[bart95]

18. i've been falsely accused of a lot of crazy things, but

'romanticizing illegal immigration' has never been one of them

and no, i dont know where the Lindberg baby is, either

[Xyzse]

26. No accusations here

I actually don't have much of a problem with your view, my issue here is how there is a discrepancy between how legal and illegal immigrants are viewed in this country. Again, not saying that you romanticize illegal immigration, besides your original post does not really touch upon that. The preceding posts did go off on those who have done matters legally and so that to me was disturbing, particularly as this place is where "Democrats" usually are who tend to support the plight of the illegal workers.

Why would many support amnesty for illegals and decry the unfairness of broken families while not considering that such things happen to those who have done things legally as well.

[bart95]

33. i dont get the party's support of either kind

and dont kid yourself, the party supports displacement of American by legal and illegal immigration EQUALLY

meat packing workers in the midwest have been totally busted over the last 30 years - yes, American USED to do that, had a high school friend who did

he got creamed by illegal labor

i got creamed by h-1b

going to college meant being replaced by someone from india, rather than mexico

but i was never 'ok' with what happened to him

[Xyzse]

38. Actually...

I agree with this, just stating that Democrats tend to play up to that just a bit more.
So no, not kidding myself there just mentioning the disparity between the view towards illegals and legals.

[HiPointDem]

10. H1b's have been being issued for white collar jobs since the 90s. Including for doctors.

Blue collar wages were suppressed through legal immigration as much as illegal immigration.

[Egalitarian Thug]

25. The problem I have with this is;

The American immigrant labor system is set up to mask the true value of the work that needs doing. Take McSame's "lettuce picker" example from a few years ago ($50 p/hr wouldn't be enough to entice American workers).

If it really did take paying $50 p/hr to get Americans to do this work (total BS as he learned the next day), then $50 p/hr is the true value of that grueling job. Importing people desperate enough to do it for $40 p/day under unlawful conditions artificially suppresses the true price of lettuce while artificially inflating the profits from owning a lettuce farm.

We have to learn some basic truths here before we can make the nation we all want live in, among them; There are no easy or unskilled jobs and that, in a market economy such as ours, shifting and subsidizing real costs screws up the market and allows the few to manipulate it to the detriment of all.

[RagAss]

9. Go home...we got troubles here...go home.

[Horse with no Name]

13. This issue is definitely a conundrum

These students coming over here paying International tuition rates while they live and consume in these college communities help our economy.

But then...they want something in return for it. A job.

But...by coming over here, their tuition, rent, groceries, entertainment, transportation--creates jobs for Americans.

What to do? Do we sacrifice giving a foreign student ONE job or do we sacrifice the several jobs that their presence here creates?

But one thing for certain. IF we aren't willing to give jobs-then we need to stop issuing the student visas.

[liberalhistorian]

19. No one puts a gun to their head and forces

them to attend college and/or graduate school here. And they are not owed any kind of work whatsoever.

[Horse with no Name]

22. Nobody is "owed" anything

but if they deserve an opportunity, it should be given.

BUT...that being said...by issuing the visas it implies that they are eligible to be considered for work here or they can go home.

IF we are unwilling as a country to let an non-American take a job that an American could do--then the process needs to be changed. Issue the visas with a return date...no jobs implied or don't issue them at all.

America USED to be the land of opportunity. Some foreign born still think that is the case. Perhaps we should let them know up front that we don't extend opportunity to foreign students--but are very willing to let them pay their money to attend school here and be good little consumers, but when the gig is up--get the fuck out and don't expect anything in return.

[bart95]

28. Since when are ordinary workers responsible for the marketing of universities?

last I checked, I'm not on the board of regents

just one more of the ENDLESS claims that 'because of this that or the other thing, tech workers shoudl be displaced to make up for it'

any time you want to volunteer YOURSELF for sacrifice, feel free to do so

[Horse with no Name]

32. Comprehension must not be your strong suit.

It is NOT the fault of the International students any more than it is the fault of the American students. It is a foreign policy issue.

See...if we don't allow foreign students in...we don't get to send our students out either. Tit for tat.

[bart95]

35. 'it is a foreign policy issue'

well, i'll address this at the next cabinet meeting

[liberalhistorian]

29. Again, no one forces them to come

here and be "good little consumers." They make that choice and spend that money voluntarily. When our unemployment rate is as persistently, stubbornly high as it is, and it also greatly affects both current and future prospects of AMERICAN students, when you have thirteen MILLION Americans unemployed and unable to find work no matter what they do or what degree they have, then we have no business putting foreign students and applicants ahead of qualified Americans. I've seen the struggles my son and his friends go through, through no fault of their own, and it infuriates me that non-Americans would be considered first. THEY are the ones who will be paying and contributing and supporting the safety net for the next decades, not the foreign students, and THEY are the ones who deserve the first opportunities.

We don't expect other nations to put our students and workers first above theirs. Where is your concern for the millions and millions of Americans, including college students and graduates, who can't find work? If you're so concerned about international students, then give one of them YOUR job.

I'm certainly not against international students, my own college experience was immensely enriched by them and I remain friends with some nearly thirty years later. But back then, they didn't expect or demand American jobs, they returned home to enrich and build up their own nations, whether European, African, Asian, etc. (my college had a rich variety of international students).

[obamanut2012]

41. They were given an opportunity -- a US university degree

Chinese and Indian international students also go to university in the UK, Canada, etc. They don't go to school at home, they come here. They also get many TA jobs and other aid while here, and many of their spouses are given staff positions during their enrollment.

Until employment levels drop mightily, until poverty levels plummet, until white collar jobs are filled by US grads and blue collar by union members, US citizen graduates should get preference, just like how other countries look after their own citizens first, which is how it should be.

[bart95]

21. then why dont you give them YOUR job?!?!

since you're the one who thinks they're owed something

[Horse with no Name]

24. I work with a lot of people from foreign countries

and I do compete with them in the job market. It does not bother me in the least.

[SoCalDem]

27. Availability of their "college slots" to US kids would create the same "service economy" jobs

Last edited Wed Apr 4, 2012, 07:16 PM - Edit history (1)

When wealthy foreign people want to give their kids a US college education , it should be available to them ONLY if there are truly spots left open after ALL qualified US kids have their own college slots obtained.

[liberalhistorian]

30. Problem is, there are now public/state colleges and

universities that are actively recruiting international students while shutting out slots for state students and other American students. Needless to say, that is really infuriating the people of the states where that's occuring (such as Washington, for one).

[obamanut2012]

42. Exactly -- some states have had to pass laws to limit this

Taxpayers kinda get pissed when their taxes go to a state university system that their qualified kid has no chance to go to, because she'd pay 8k a year or so, instead of 40k.

[Horse with no Name]

31. This is true

But we need to be honest about this. Don't allow them into the country and then foment resentment because they are here.

I have become more protectionist as I am entering into my old age...but, I am not going to blame foreign college students for participating in a legal practice.

If we aren't willing to do it, then we need to shut the doors to foreign students. I don't have a problem with that. What I have the problem with is the expectations that are being laid out to these kids and then resentment when they attempt to utilize what is offered.

[SoCalDem]

43. I don't "resent" them.. BUT when kids with 4.) GPAs do not "make the cut" at some prestigious US

colleges, and the foreign student population at that college is present, it;s not hard to see that there were really no "extra" spots available.

Until laws reflect fair-play, nothing can be done.

It's not the fault of the foreign students.. They are just doing what's legal legal & fair are not interchangeable

[EmeraldCityGrl]

36. This OP strikes me as being incredibly insensitive

especially since there is another thread on GD addressing the problems a DUer is
facing from long term unemployment.

On the other thread one of the suggestions for finding employment most agreed on
was networking within your first and more importantly, second circle of friends and
family. So, what happens when International students find themselves hired, promoted
and in a position to hire support staff? Will it be within there own cultural base of
friends and family that they will look to for possible employment?

I could care less about a Chinese students complicated process for finding an
internship or employment in the US.

[bart95]

40. my purpose in posting it

is to demonstrate that the intractable recession/long term unemployment that people like that DU poster suffer, is a manufactured recession, a recession deliberately created by media, government and corporations, continually placing non-citizens ahead of them in the employment line

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. I am not terribly sympathetic

because I know how hard OTHER COUNTRIES make it for Americans to get jobs.

Now the whole thing about American students not wanting to study science and engineering is a half-truth. During my college teaching heyday in the 1980s and early 1990s, majoring in computer science or engineering was considered a great way to ensure yourself a well-paid job. My 22-year-old former students were making twice as much as I was a year out of college.

But then the Epidemic of Cheapness hit America's tech firms. One started to hear stories about American workers being forced to train their H1B replacement or their division being shut down and relocated to China or India.

Now consider this: Today's college students could be the children of my students. Yes, the freshmen of 2011-2012 were born in 1992-1993, the year I stopped teaching. I taught for 11 years, so some of my oldest students definitely have college-age children.

OK, if the child of one of my former students who majored in computer science or engineering is considering a college major, do you think he or she is going to follow in the parent's footsteps if that parent was dumped from their full-time job and has been surviving on short-term contract jobs for most of that child's life? Do you think that someone who is continually being rejected by high tech firms on the grounds that "your skills are old" (as if an intelligent person who already has proven talent couldn't learn new skills) or "you're over-qualified" ("We'd actually have to pay you and not keep you in a cheap apartment building with all the other H1Bs&quot is going to advise any child of theirs to major in computer science or engineering?

(For the record, the Epidemic of Cheapness has also hit America's colleges, despite rising tuition, and one reason I decided not to look for another teaching job in 1993 was that I saw seeing a shift to short-term and part-time jobs.)

[krypton]

45. Consider a postgraduate degree in Asia or maybe even entering the job market over there?

Wow! It must be an excruciating time for any foreign student trying to get a job in the US. Given the current economic time its not easy for any student so to also have to deal with immigration restrictions must be tough. I'm not surprised that a lot of foreign born students or international students decide to head back. A number of Asian students that I've know about went back for a masters programme to firstly help them get used to the environment and use the time to make friends, and to perfect their language skills. Shanghai Jiao Tong SAIF seems to be particularly good at attracting overseas based Chinese. An interesting story they featured recently was of one of their students who after studying at UC Berkeley went to SAIF for a masters. His original plan was to work in China again had to deal with work visa requirements. George has a US passport and apparently in China, you need to have three years of work experience in the industry you intend to enter. He was offered a job by Thomson Reuters but was posted to their NY office for a year after which he'll return to work in Shanghai.

Getting an MBA is a tactic that other Overseas based Asians are using. I know a student who is currently studying for an MBA on the Nanyang MBA. Eric Oandasan is Co-President of the Schools CSR Club. He grew up in Singapore and the Philippines and attended college at the University of California, Irvine, where he earned a BA in Economics. He returned to Asia in 2006 and worked for advertising and marketing firm BBDO Guerrero in the Philippines for over four years before enrolling on the Nanyang MBA. He is currently doing an internship with Adidas in Singapore.