You know I couldn't care less if Mitt Romney is Mormon.

[Cleita]

I've known a lot of nice Mormon people in my lifetime. As long as their beliefs don't interfere with mine, I'm okay with it. What I do object to is that he's a Republican liar and a billionaire unsympathetic to the plight of others and that includes the cruel and heartless treatment of his dog. Actually his actions are contrary to Mormon beliefs of helping one's fellow man.

It's time to stop making religion a wedge issue in our selection of leaders for our country. It distracts from the real problems we should be having with the candidates. John Kennedy managed to be President without once needing the Vatican to help him out. Jimmy Carter, an Evangelist still was able to govern without blowing up Iran during the hostage crisis. Of course they were Democrats.

George Bush, who was surrounded by wacky religious nut graduates of Bob Jones University, did allow them too much entry into government, but even he got them to back off when they wandered off page from the Heritage Foundation global oil policies of perpetual war that he and Dicky were trying to put in motion.

Religion should be the least of our worries about candidates unless they decide to declare themselves god kings or pharoahs, then we should worry.

[dimbear]

1. Bishop Romney is an important and active member of a church famous for

its repression of women, minorities, and the LGBT community. He is the very public face of the LDS church.

Politics is like a street fight. Want a president who doesn't go there? President Kerry would be your guy.

[Cleita]

2. I thought we tried to get a President Kerry, but no cigar. n/t

[Tom Ripley]

40. Like you, I always refer to him as Bishop Romney, and I encourage others to do the same

[Cleita]

42. That's kind of inaccurate though, because a bishop in the LDS isn't the

same powerful position that a bishop in the Catholic Church would be. It's really middle management in a retail sort of way, like Amway.

[Tom Ripley]

43. When one borrows terms in order to give their enterprise legitimacy, one has to accept the baggage

associated with those terms. One can not have it both ways. The Mormons should have just stuck with their titles that sound as if they were made up by 8 yr old boys in a treehouse. Ex: First President.

[Cleita]

44. Really? We don't have to accept it, which is why I'm not worried about Romney's bishopric.

It's a very small cell of believers in his community. Really, it's more like being the captain of the neighborhood watch.

[Tom Ripley]

45. You can try and convince the Baptists and other fundies of that, and I will be doing the opposite

Oh...the LDS thanks you for all of your hard work.

[onehandle]

3. Mormons I've know are sweet, sweet people. Most Republicans I've known have been at least nice.

But Mittens is a robotic lying sack of shit one-percenter.

Fuck you, Mitt.

[Cleita]

4. That's my problem with him, not his religions. n/t

[stevedeshazer]

5. I don't care, either.

I also have LDS friends. Nice folks. I don't agree with them any more than I do with Catholics, Baptists or Republicans.

No offense to any liberals in those groups about religion, but...

There should be no religious litmus test.

Religion is religion. Government is government.

E Pluribus Unum.

[Cleita]

6. Yes, and if it were true that Obama was a Muslim like the Freepers like to say,

I don't find that a deal breaker either. He still would be a fine President. We might just have a real Muslim President one of these days if we can evolve beyond our racism and bigotry.

[X_Digger]

7. I dont despise him any more than I would any other candidate who claims to believe..

.. in imaginary friends.. which seems to be a pre-requisite for offices higher than dog catcher in this country.

[Cleita]

8. You know if he keeps his imaginary friends out of the Oval Office,

and I think he will, it wouldn't worry me. It's the economic policies that he will bring that I object to.

[X_Digger]

10. Honestly, I think Bush the Dumber was an aberration (thankfully).

I see Santorum being cut from the same mold as Dubya, religion-wise.

Mittens? You're right, his economic policies would kill us, not his magic underwear.

[Cleita]

16. I actually fear Santorum more than I do Romney.

He is truly an orthodox believer in Catholicism and is a moron. I shudder what Santorum would do to women's rights and programs for the poor. Catholics will take care of the poor, but I fear Santorum would prop up the church on this and no one else.

[X_Digger]

17. I agree, and it's kind of sad..

.. since there's an apparent disconnect between the orthodoxy of the catholic church and what most of its members believe / practice.

Your average catholic is a hell of a lot different than the church.

[demosincebirth]

20. Despise is a mighty hateful word. Do you despise Lincoln, FDR, JFK, LBJ, RFK, Clinton and Obama?

All men of faith.

[X_Digger]

23. 'him' in my sentence refers to Romney.

But no, I shake my head at our candidates professing faith to either pander to like-minded elements of the electorate, or to appear that way to not be a target of their wrath.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. That's nice for you. Personally, I see him as part of an organization that spends millions

to oppose my community's rights, when we do them no harm at all. I do not see that calling their organization a 'church' means anything to me, as all I see is folks who willingly join a group that does harm to others who did no harm to them. If that is what religion is, then religion is not a good thing.
Carter was at the time of his Presidency, Southern Baptist. He left that denomination due to their history and current treatment of minorities, in particular African Americans. Just saying. Mitt was high up in his church and past 30 years old when they stopped preaching that African Americans are inferior, a teaching which their founder said 'would always remain true'.....nothing wrong with that, I guess. Nice people do that sort of thing. I guess....
No, sorry. It matters to me when folks join a hate group. It just does.

[Cleita]

11. I agree about the organization. I spent enough time in Utah, Idaho and Nevada to see

how it operates up close. In those states that religious organization has been able to acquire theocratic power in the governments of those states, so I know what you are talking about. However, many of the casinos in Nevada are run by Mormon corporations. Truly! And the sin, gambling and alcohol are very profitable for them so they don't interfere with it. They just don't want it in their own house. I believe a Mormon President would have that kind of hands off attitude. But my objection with him is about who he is and whose puppet he is. Even Mormon voters need to know what he stands for and if they get it, they will know he's not the guy for them. So the religion is not the problem.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. The fact is they organized and funded Prop 8 and Mitt personally did so.

They are most certainly meddling in what goes on in MY house, not their own. So why you would think he'd not do in office what he already does is interesting to me.
And just fyi, I do not see gay as a sin like you suggest, dear. Do not equate my family to a casino or a cocktail, thank you kindly.

[Cleita]

14. Yes, they did and they are bold about it, which is why we need to start enforcing separation of

Church and State. They probably are also behind this birth control thing or maybe the Catholic Church is like they are at the bottom of the abortion debacle. All religions are dangerous if they are allowed in politics. Look what the evangelicals do to promote racism. But, this is a separate thing, a man who has a religion like most Presidential candidates have or claim to have is different from the religion.

I don't want Mittens in the White House, but it's not because of his religion. The Mormons can't take over Washington anymore than the Dominionists could during the Bush administration or the Catholics during the Kennedy administration. btw Kennedy was BFF with some very powerful cardinals in the church. So no, we can't condemn Romney for his religion, because it will distract from what is truly awful about him.

[dimbear]

48. This sums it up excellently well. Bishop Romney belongs to a hate group, supports them financially

and has been a missionary for them. He was a missionary for them at a time when he could conveniently escape serving in Viet Nam--a war which he cheered and demonstrated for. When questioned about the church he maintains a stony silence and claims or at least implies that he is persecuted for his beliefs. I call BS on that.

I usually don't indulge religious prejudices, but I'm declaring an exception for Bishop Romney. There's an old saying in some book somewhere: sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. Reap that, Mitt.

[Ter]

12. He's wealthy, but no billionaire

n/t

[Cleita]

15. I'm sure he is.

Most rich people don't really know how much they have after the first hundred million.

[Raine]

18. I don't care either, the very nicest person I've ever known was my teacher who was Mormon

she kept it to herself (only mentioned it in passing) and never prostelatized (sp?). If Rmoney is like that fine ... as long as he doesn't ram it down everyone's throat policy wise.

[Cleita]

21. Even if he does, his religion is not what we should be upset about but his proselytizing.

So far the only proselytizing I have seen him do, is not his religion, but his motherfucking, awful right wing politics.

[Zanzoobar]

19. Puh-leeze, stop lying about Romney

He's only a multi-millionaire. A quarter billion does not a billionaire make.

[Cleita]

22. They call him a billionaire in the media all the time so I'm not the one lying if

it's not the truth.

[Ter]

24. Please provide a link

I have never seen him called a billionaire once in the media. You're probably thinking of Bloomberg or maybe Trump.

[Cleita]

26. A link is not media.

It's what I have heard on TV and radio while I go about my business. But if you say not, okay.

[Zanzoobar]

49. Man alive! I was joking.

To me, the difference between a multi-millionaire and a billionaire is an RCH.

[Ter]

50. I don't think you're lying at all

I just never heard it and was curious.

[IDemo]

25. Almost my entire working group was Mormon at my previous job

They were a great crew to work with and never was there an attempt by anybody to proselytize. That said, I do believe that Prop 8 made it plain that the church is not shy about involving itself politically. It's a factor, even if relatively small next to Roofdog's economic and foreign policy positions.

[Cleita]

27. I worked with them up north and when my husband had a stroke they couldn't have been

a more helpful and kind group of people to find yourself in the midst of when strangers in a strange land so to speak need help. They really helped me out and I will never forget their kindness. But that being said, yes I feel the power brokers in that church like in all churches need watching. The point of my post though was that we can't judge our presidential candidates by their religion. They might try to bring their religion to Washington with them, but it really doesn't work out for them, so it's the least thing we need to fear from them. We need to concentrate on what they really stand for and in Romney's case his religion is the least problem there is about him.

[Odin2005]

28. The LDS is a totalitarian cult and none of it's members should be anywear near national politics.

And that applies to Harry Reid just as much as it applies to Mittens.

They essentially control Utah with an iron fist, already.

[Cleita]

30. So other than being a milquetoast, what has Harry Reid done that pushes

his religion in politics? I can't see anything in his record. You know even Mormons or Catholics or Jews or Protestants or Muslims or Buddhists or Faery Lovers like me, all need some representation. That's what democracy is about.

[Tom Ripley]

46. His venality?

That certainly seems to be a Mormon value.

[Cleita]

47. It's a human value and particularly a political value that proves my point.

A politician's loyalties have little to do with his religion.

[IDemo]

34. Yet they elected this guy mayor of Salt Lake City, twice

As mayor, Anderson rose to nationwide prominence as a champion of several national and international causes, including climate protection, immigration reform, restorative criminal justice, GLBT rights, and an end to the "war on drugs". Before and after the invasion by the U.S. of Iraq in 2003, Anderson was a leading opponent of the invasion and occupation of Iraq and related human rights abuses. Anderson was the only mayor of a major U.S. city who advocated for the impeachment of President George W. Bush, which he did in many venues throughout the United States.

[Tom Ripley]

41. +1,000,000

[unkachuck]

29. I don't know....

....any Mormons personally, only the ones that knock on my door....I find them a little creepy....but you're right about slick willard, the rich wall-street Mormon,

"...he's a Republican liar and a billionaire unsympathetic to the plight of others..."

....that's his big sin and the reason he should never become president....

[Cleita]

31. That's my point.

It isn't his religion we should be worried about. Also, it's true that any church will try to establish themselves as a theocracy if allowed to. Can't just blame the Mormons about this in Utah. There are plenty of places in the South that are totally ruled by the dominant church cult there. I have had the opportunity to travel and spend time in many places in this country and have observed what is going on.

[Hippo_Tron]

32. The moment Mitt Romney denounces the Republican Party for decades of using religion as a wedge issue

I will cease to use his religion as a wedge issue against him.

[Cleita]

33. That sounds fair enough, however, remember,

most of the wars and genocides of history are because of religion and neither side wanting to give up because they think they have some divine right telling them they are the good guys.

[Hippo_Tron]

35. This isn't a war or a genocide, it's an election

And the Republican Party is going to continue to use religion as a wedge issue whether Mitt Romney's religion is used against him or not.

Furthermore, this isn't really a case of neither side giving up. Democrats seldom attack their opponents using religion or culture war issues, because it doesn't work. Ever hear of Alex Sanders? If you haven't, he's the guy who tried to get elected to the US Senate from South Carolina by implying that Lindsey Graham was gay. Didn't work out so well for him. Seemed to work wonders when George W Bush did it to Ann Richards, though.

However, this year you may have an anecdotal example of where the Republican Party's decision to try and demean those who aren't of the same faith as the majority, may actually come back to bite them in the ass. And if that is the case, it will probably be a long time before the Republican Party nominates another Mormon.

[Cleita]

36. We all know the Tea Party (there are no real Republicans anymore. Today they have taken over our

party as the DLC) play dirty. Remember the Mayberry Machiavellians? They are still alive and well and active, but now we know the Koch brothers are part of that cabal. Yes, they did a number on Ann Richards, however, this will backfire on us if we do it. There are a lot of Mormons in the western USA. They can distinguish between assholes within their enclave and okay guys. If you attack them they will rally behind Romney, which from what I understand, a lot of them don't like him for the same reasons we don't.

[Hippo_Tron]

37. There's a lot of Mormons in Utah and Idaho, two states we have no chance in hell of winning

They make up 2% of the vote in Colorado and 4% in Arizona. Nevada has the biggest LDS population of the potential western swing states with 11%. Most of those are probably not up for grabs though, as Mormons tend to vote overwhelmingly Republican.

If Obama had to answer stupid questions about why Reverand Wright is pissed off at America (hint: look at the way we treated black people 1960's), then Romney should have to answer stupid questions about why his church baptizes dead people.

[Cleita]

39. You forgot Nevada. I have been in all those states and I know that they are underpopulated but

overpopulated with Mormons and they do get two senators just like California and New York. I wish our MSM would ask those questions about why his church baptizes dead people, but they don't so are the Mormons at fault for this? Or, maybe the corporate media who are trying to get a Republican into the White House again, no matter who it is. When you pick on candidate for who they are rather than what they stand for, you are in trouble. You know that all the feces being slung at Obama because he's black (who he is) isn't going anywhere. This won't either.

[slackmaster]

38. Automatic DU Rec for proper use of the expression "couldn't care less"