Gore won, and Nader lost

[stupidicus]

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2001/111201a.html leaving us all to pay the cost.

Why Gore, the yellow-bellied sapsucker who folded like a wet earth-toned suit gets most of the sympathy while Nader is designated by so many as the real "peckerhead" as the term is commonly used, while understandable, remains unjustified to me. As a Gore voter myself, I think he'd deserve my malice as a quitter if I were to have any, not Nader.

Why Nader had less of a right to run on a platform that nobody criticized then or more recently http://votenader.org/issues/ -- but be my guest if you must -- than Gore did to fold and disappoint all those that voted for him, does not compute. Imagine a Bernie Sanders doing a similar independent/under another banner run http://www.change.org/petitions/bernie-sanders-run-for-president-in-2016-as-a-green-party-candidate against the ACA loving but single-payer hating Hillary Clinton in 2016. Must any and all wouldbe candidates on the left with desires of giving a voice to what's left of the real left do so at the cost of a villian branding because of the potential consequences as so many proudly make clear awaits them with the Nader example?

It does appear so. And who or what is to blame for the SCOTUS selecting or the Gore dereliction in duty to his supporters but Gore for failing to sell himself sufficiently well to avoid both scenarios? It seems to me that to detest Nader so for his real or imaginary role in the Gore loss borders on if not crosses the anti-democratic line, and resembles in many respects the way many rightwingers think ANY dem, regardless of religion, color, creed, etc, etc, etc, has no right to be president. It differs only insomuch in the Nader case, to extending that to the right to run for office, win or lose, and regardless of the motivation for doing so. He's no more ignoble politically than his platform linked to above is. He's more a scapegoat than anything else used to ease or explain the pain of the Gore loss that never occurred in terms of votes if the linked to analysis is correct,

As we saw and learned from the Howard Dean experience, our so-called "liberal media" will certainly assist in the destruction of anyone leaning too far to the left running under the dem banner, as well as those not. Just look at the work of Dowd and others in regards to Gore. As a supporter I resigned myself to his failure as soon as he announced that that one of his highest priorities was to bust up the media conglomerates -- a thing that "Big Dog" gave us as a corporate friendly "centrist" with the Telecommunications Act of 1996. You'd think a genius like him would be able to foresee the ramifications of his actions, no, and particularly over something his pecker had no role or presence in to override his better judgement with.

The resurrection of the Nader bogeyman, or the continued whining about him -- however you wanna look at it -- diminishes the role of the selectors on the highest court in our land in the Gore loss, as well as the prospect of anyone speaking for what's left of the real left in the way and manner that he has. He's an endangered species many wanna assist down the road to extinction. It is of course something that can be confused with and related to the ongoing attempts at silencing lefty critics of the dems, and BHO especially and in particular. Nader personifies and exemplifies what can happen when support for dem candidates is sufficiently eroded, and it's far far better to blame it on the better salesmen that takes those votes away than the failure of their candidate to hold them. Since when did so many members of the democratic party start hating democracy in action, or people largely if not solely for participating in that process as Nader did? It's almost like a lefty posing a challenge to dem candidates should be criminalized or something, no? Given all the "lefty extremists" talk and writing I've consumed, it seems we ain't far from that. Let's start with ALL these guys. http://www.cagreens.org/alameda/city/0803myth/myth.html ANd of course, history had lessons available to Nader, like this http://www.leinsdorf.com/perot.htm. Gee, Ralphy musta been real mad over Perot's numbers, which were what, over six times his own in 2000. It's almost like he knew that Florida and the circumstances and happenstances there would lead to to his infamy, which he subsequently sought because he's never been anything but a self-serving jack-ass, which is something no other pol could justifiably be described as, and especially dem ones who all enter politics with noble goals in mind, like wouldbe priest entering the seminary for example.

What slays me most of all, and particularly in the wake of the recent Hobby Lobby decision, is that the guy who has historically been the biggest thorn in their side and who has spent the most time trying to restore the view and legal status of them that our founding fathers held, and to hold them to account, has been CONverted into a villian by the very same people likely whining the loudest about that decision. It's almost like he was supposed to know that Bush would turn into an unindicted war criminal whose only real success would be setting the bar for being spectacularly successful at failure or something. SHeesh, why not blame OBL, without which much of the Bush damage would likely never have occurred? Hell, without the "changing horses" scenario/mentality that the Iraq War posed, can it not be reasonably argued given his record otherwise to that point, that his reelection and last four years of potential damage would never have been as his father was prevented from doing?

I think there's something very inCONgruent/inCONsistent about all of that, but that's just me.

Maybe Gore simply lost his you know whats between here http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrBT4cM.LVTuEQAispXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzOTJ0bWZ2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDQ2MV8x/RV=2/RE=1404463245/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.tvclip.biz%2fvideo%2foAUcyfKESts%2fal-gore-tries-to-intimidate-fight-george-bush-at-debates-nod.html/RK=0/RS=If3xqFOBTWJWrEEFoTgA_F_IZMM- and when he cried mommy and gave up.

Has anyone consulted the shadow about this?

If "we" collectively want the most "liberal" candidate possible, being taken for granted as we are every four years ain't the way to get it. The way to get it is to compel our candidates to fear the loss of doing/being otherwise, which would require more Naders, not less. It's a call for the promotion and maintenance of the status quo, even though for example, the last two dem presidents signed Glass-Steagall and the other let most of the crooks it produced off the hook.

WHat I'd really like to know is how anyone can expect leftism/liberalism to prevail on policy matters when the party that allegedly represents both fail to put those animals in the biggest fighting cage, or can deny the role that the "they're both the same enough to ignore the differences" mentality that results in and explains in no small part the apathy/disenchantment that keeps voter participation as low as it is in this country. How many Nader voters would have even voted period without his candidacy for example?

"In the year 2000, exit polls reported that 25% of my voters would have voted for Bush, 38% would have voted for Gore and the rest would not have voted at all."[18]

and Nader ain't to blame for that. Corporatist/third way/DLC dems that couldn't get their interest and votes then are. While the Nader haters are all concerned about who got/gets the votes, they lose sight of those who don't vote and why, and the same applies to those who voted for him instead of Gore -- because both are due to what the dems either fail to provide or injustices they are instrumental in perpetuating, like income inequality, etc, etc, etc.

Nader represents the failures they support or fail to criticize, while criticizing and/or condemning those that do. The "bizness" he gets/has gotten differs little in substance or form from that recieved by any/all of us alleged racist BHO-haters around here have recieved. The reason/motivation are the same in both cases, given the prominence and prevalence of the "you're trying to cost us the election" charge found in their assaults.

I'm surprised that "Nader Jr" hasn't found its way into common usage around here by now.

[The Magistrate]

1. So By Your Own Figures, Sir, Net Is 13,000 + To Mr. Gore

A gap of 13.000 votes between Mr. Gore and Bush would have been out of reach of sharp practice in the state, and never come near the Supreme Court. The price of Nader running, and running as he did, concentrating his fire on Democrats in swing states, was Bush in the Oval Office.

[stupidicus]

8. yep, I can do math too

I remember Bush being pres as well.

Why would I have posted that if I was gonna dispute it? Did you think I failed to understand that or something?

[Gman]

2. Nader can never, ever be vindicated

He doesn't deserve to be either. He must live out his miserable life with the death of millions and the collapse of Anerica as we knew it being his, and only his, legacy.

Nader had every right to choose to run for president. He chose extremely poorly. It could be the stupidest thing anyone that claims any liberal leanings has ever done in the history of this country. He betrayed everything good and decent about America. But actually, he fully intended to take as many voted from Gore as possible and he succeeded which makes his candidacy a vile disgusting act beyond any meaning of just stupid.

I for one, and I'm sure I'm joined by millions everywhere in spitting on the ground every time that sorry piece if shit's name is ever mentioned. All the blood of everyone who died from 9/11 to the most recent deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq this very hour is on his hands. May he burn in hell.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

3. Nader's liberal leanings are a crock

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/06/27/ralph-nader-turns-rightest-on-cisco/

[joshcryer]

5. You're not alone. There's a reason the Green Party fell into obscurity.

A lot of people were pissed off about it.

Nader should've been our ally.

[stupidicus]

7. be my guest

the close to 3M that voted for him will offset the rest of you

[joshcryer]

4. "Gore, the yellow-bellied sapsucker"

Cute. You live up to your nickname at least.

Here's the thing, and I'll keep it short since I figure you're going to get locked or hidden for this revisionism, Gore was under relentless pressure from the media. They wanted a horse race and they got one. Nader was an enabler of the results of that horse race and a spoiler going back on their promise not to campaign in swing states.

[stupidicus]

6. yep, if I had a nickel for every time I've read that

I coulda retired years before I did.

I originally chose that nic so as to provide an easy out for rightwing idiots when they ran outta ammo. Who knew it would be as effective with presumably lefties as well?

There's little to nothing you can "inform" me about regarding the case, and apparently nothing you can post that will deprive anyone of justification for thinking his conduct in the matter was not stellar -- the fact that his conduct was but a small fraction of the case made notwithstanding.

http://www.newswise.com/articles/iowa-researcher-finds-nader-likely-helped-gore-in-2000-election

now run along, no?