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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
Sun Jul 13, 2014, 07:58 PM Jul 2014

About the children coming into our country from Central America without visas.

This is a feel-good, I feel so sorry, issue for many DUers.

But if you look at the American juvenile justice system and the immigration courts and holding centers, the issues are much more complex. If you lack experience in that system, maybe you should hesitate before judging those who know the system and understand how this influx of children, should it continue at the present pace or increase in numbers will overburden it.

Let's start here:

Normally, you have to be 18 to enter into an enforceable contract. How are these children, even the older teens, supposed to get housing, rent a room, etc. without an adult to sign for them or help them? And how will the majority of them keep out of trouble? They are kids. Kids get into trouble. I''m not just talking about crime. I am talking about depression, poor diet, careless hygiene, medical problems, accidents, etc.

Regardless of the circumstances, intentionally and knowingly placing an unaccompanied minor on a bus or truck or train or plane or whatever to go to a foreign country in which the majority of people speak a foreign language without a visa is the definition of child abandonment and child endangerment.

I understand that the situation is dangerous in some parts of Central America, but placing a child on a perilous journey of neatly 2000 miles alone and without the legal papers required to enter into the country of destination is far more dangerous. Who knows how many children have perished en route from Central America to the US? And if this effort is well organized enough to be safe, it is illegal and an even more irresponsible form of abandonment.

The parents of these children would be considered unfit parents, and most of the children would probably be placed in foster care if the parents and children were American born.

These children do not have the same right to stay here as children who, although their parents were undocumented, have lived in the US most of their lives and are American in terms of language, culture and education.

The children coming in now will need some sort of adult mentoring, guidance, guardianship or foster care. You cannot live in the US as a minor without a legal guardian or person legally responsible for caring for you. Sooner or later you will be picked up by the police, and then there is a problem. These children may end up in juvenile incarceration or orphanages. Any one of these children could be subject to serious abuse.

We have very limited facilities and staff for caring for children who have run away or who have been neglected or abandoned by their parents. If we have 50,000 abandoned children entering the US so far this year, we could have 100,000 by the end of the year. That is an increase of roughly 35 - 40% of the children who were in foster care in 2012. If you care, Google it.

This is a nightmare. It feels very good to express sympathy for the children. But they need much more than sympathy. Politicizing the issue or criticizing those who are protesting the entry of these children may also feel good, but it doesn't help the children. Ask yourself, what am I willing to do to help these individual children? Am I willing to take one or more of them into your home and care for them as my own?

Because if not, maybe you should be a little careful about criticizing others who object to their presence here. It's one thing to be pro-immigration. (I am.) It is quite another to encourage parents to abandon their children in the way that these children are being abandoned.

It has been said that some of these children are sent up here to join family in the US. That is a form of foster care. There is a legal process for assigning children to foster care homes. The home has to be adequate. That may be a tough hurdle for many of the relatives of these children in the US. I would like to know more about the legal aspects involved in sending children on their own to join family members other than parents in a foreign country. We have family in a foreign country. I cannot imagine sending minor children to join them without first getting visas even though we are in frequent communication with the family. Again, that is child endangerment.

The Republicans are refusing to allocate money to provide for temporary and permanent shelter for these children. They are also refusing to increase allocations for immigration courts to speed the deportation or granting of asylum as appropriate for each child.

I think Obama has responded to this crisis very well so far. I recommend that Obama take emergency funds from the military and use it to house, educate and care for the children on military bases. (I think that may be what he is doing.)

The alternative is that individuals volunteer their homes or that churches and civil organizations organize group homes for them. No matter how cute and lovable the children are (and they are), they are not adults and cannot survive without responsible adults to care for them. (I repeat that because a lot of DUers do not seem to be thinking much about that fact.)

Even in California, the juvenile detention system is not a good place for them. They have already been abandoned. They will be further traumatized in an institutional system that is geared toward children who have broken the law or who have also been abused and abandoned.

The law that is encouraging parents in Central America to abandon their children in this way needs to be changed. If the gang problem in Central America is that bad, then it is an international problem.

We also need to ask whether there is a link between CAFTA and this crisis in Central America, whether there is a link between Reagan's wars in Central America and what is going on now?

Our goal should be to help Central American countries solve the problems that are causing parents to abandon their children in this way.

I doubt we have the national consensus to fund what needs to be done. Here is an encouraging report:

One San Antonio-based group is on the front lines of the issue, providing free legal services to many of the unaccompanied children who have crossed the border.

That group is called the Refugee and Immigrant Center for Education and Legal Services. One thing that RAICES does is provide counsel to undocumented children who, by law, are entitled to legal representation. The group receives no government funding and mainly relies on grants and donations.

RAICES executive director Jonathan Ryan said, every day, the group has attorneys that are consulting undocumented immigrants who are being sheltered by the federal government at Lackland Air Force Base.

"Our core set of services begins with education. We give the children a class called 'know your rights presentation' and it involves some posters with some information and photos to keep them engaged," said Ryan. "We explain to them their rights and their responsibilities to the immigration court, and that (their rights) continue even after they may be released from the shelter."

http://www.kens5.com/story/news/local/2014/07/11/san-antonio-group-provides-free-legal-service-to-immigrant-kids-at-lackland/12510255/

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About the children coming into our country from Central America without visas. (Original Post) JDPriestly Jul 2014 OP
Kick&Recommended... butterfly77 Jul 2014 #1
I understand that many of these children have parents who are already in this country. pnwmom Jul 2014 #2
Sending a child to a foreign country to find relatives without attending to the formalities such JDPriestly Jul 2014 #3
What you're not acknowledging is that many of these children are already endangered, pnwmom Jul 2014 #4
So, that is an international problem that requires organization on our part and on the parts JDPriestly Jul 2014 #5
A mother who is here and sends for her child, using the same "service" she used to get here, pnwmom Jul 2014 #7
The programs for Jewish children were organized. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #18
Not all of them. Some were ad hoc. And none of those children had visas. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #19
Some were ad hoc. But the children did not come in the thousands. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #22
Many of these children have relatives willing to take children into their homes. pnwmom Jul 2014 #21
There will no doubt be organized programs for that, but the most important thing is to get JDPriestly Jul 2014 #23
Yes. We should certainly be doing what we can to improve the situation pnwmom Jul 2014 #29
The verdict is not in yet, but I have heard that we may be at fault for what is going on. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #30
Do you really believe that one day all these parents just said "f it, I'm done with my kids, send uppityperson Jul 2014 #26
If they have undocumented parents in the US, the immigration courts need to hear their JDPriestly Jul 2014 #11
Omg treestar Jul 2014 #6
Not as bad as it is in some African and Asian countries. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #9
When you are an American or other First Worlder you don't do that yes treestar Jul 2014 #24
This is a wake up call that our neighbor's problems affect us Babel_17 Jul 2014 #8
Thank you. You get it! JDPriestly Jul 2014 #10
how do you expect a conversation with such a condescending opening? bigtree Jul 2014 #12
++++++++ with many thanks. nt uppityperson Jul 2014 #27
k/r 840high Jul 2014 #13
‘Flee or die’: violence drives Central America’s child migrants to US border G_j Jul 2014 #14
we posted the same article within 3 minutes of each other, lol n/t yodermon Jul 2014 #16
these stories G_j Jul 2014 #20
THEY ARE REFUGEES. The journey is NOT more dangerous than their home situation. yodermon Jul 2014 #15
Our US Embassy in Nicaragua issued this plan and statement after a meeting there today. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #17
these children aren't migrants, they're refugees bigtree Jul 2014 #25
Thank you. I wish we still had the unrec feature. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #28

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
2. I understand that many of these children have parents who are already in this country.
Sun Jul 13, 2014, 08:16 PM
Jul 2014

Undocumented. Or other relatives who are waiting for them. So they're not really expecting to come here and find housing and a job -- they're expecting to meet relatives.

You said: "These children do not have the same right to stay here as children who, although their parents were undocumented, have lived in the US most of their lives and are American in terms of language, culture and education."

So it's okay for undocumented people to have children in this country, but they can't send for their children once they get here?

There are no easy answers.

ON EDIT:

I see you acknowledge that some of these children have relatives here:

"It has been said that some of these children are sent up here to join family in the US. That is a form of foster care."

No, it isn't a form of foster care (unless the relatives choose to make it so, in order to receive public funding). US citizens often take care of the children of other family members, without there being any regulations or state involvement. Whatever housing is adequate for the extended family, is considered adequate for the family + extra children. No legal hurdles are involved (unless a landlord has an occupancy limit that's relevant.)

When I was a child, we had a neighbor's kid living with us for months at a time. It's perfectly legal as long as it happens with the consent of the parents. In our case, no money exchanged hands and neither family was involved in the foster care system.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
3. Sending a child to a foreign country to find relatives without attending to the formalities such
Sun Jul 13, 2014, 08:39 PM
Jul 2014

as visas and without having a family member prepared at the port of entry to receive the child is child endangerment. It is abandonment. Times have changed. A neighbor can live with a neighbor's family, but when it comes time to take the child to the hospital for an operation, who will be considered legally responsible enough to make decisions about the child's care?

I am not talking off the top of my head here. I am not theorizing. Please.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
4. What you're not acknowledging is that many of these children are already endangered,
Sun Jul 13, 2014, 08:41 PM
Jul 2014

where they are living now. They're seeking shelter from living in a war zone.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
5. So, that is an international problem that requires organization on our part and on the parts
Sun Jul 13, 2014, 08:50 PM
Jul 2014

of the countries from which the children come.

A mother who puts her child in the hands of who-knows-who to send them from Central America to the US with no notice, no visa, no organizational backing, nothing, has abandoned her child. She is an unfit mother.

A court must decide whether these children are refugees, whether they are entitled to asylum under American law. That is not for the mothers to decide.

We do not know the real story. The situation may be bad in Central America, but we cannot take in every child in Central America. We have to work with authorities in the region to take care of the underlying crises in those countries. A child deserves and has the right to grow up in the family into which it is born unless the situation requires otherwise.

Immigration courts exist to apply our law to make sure that our immigration system if fair. There are millions of refugees around the world. We need to deal with the violence and economic upheaval in the wake of CAFTA that are causing the dislocation.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
7. A mother who is here and sends for her child, using the same "service" she used to get here,
Sun Jul 13, 2014, 08:59 PM
Jul 2014

is doing her best -- even if it is against the law. I wouldn't say she is an unfit mother.

And a mother in Central America who, because of the terrible conditions there, sends her child here to live with relatives or friends, might simply be desperate.

During the Holocaust, there were Jewish people who also had to depend on strangers to help their children escape from their country. Alone and without proper visas. No one calls them unfit or uncaring. Just people caught in an impossible situation.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
18. The programs for Jewish children were organized.
Mon Jul 14, 2014, 12:06 AM
Jul 2014

That's why I am asking whether DUers are prepared to take children into their homes.

Here is a serious plan to help these children.

http://mexico.usembassy.gov/press-releases/managua-extraordinary-declaration.html

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
22. Some were ad hoc. But the children did not come in the thousands.
Mon Jul 14, 2014, 12:14 AM
Jul 2014

I know a lot of people who were assisted. They did not appear at the border of a foreign country and ask a border guard for help. They would have been returned to where they came from.

If you read the post at the link I posted, there was an international meeting in Managua, Nicaragua to put together a protocol for helping the children. It deals with the issues I have raised.

I am extremely aware of what happened with the Jewish and half-Jewish children in WWII. This is in some ways similar but very different in that these children are not escaping from official persecution but rather from lawlessness -- the failure in their countries to enforce the law.

http://mexico.usembassy.gov/press-releases/managua-extraordinary-declaration.html

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
21. Many of these children have relatives willing to take children into their homes.
Mon Jul 14, 2014, 12:12 AM
Jul 2014

Why can't we start by letting them do so?

We have had a young person living in our home for two years because her home life was untenable. Since she's been with us, she's gotten her GED and by next winter she'll have her AA degree. So I know what it's like to take a stranger into a home. I'm sure there are other DUers willing to do so -- as long as the government wouldn't be prosecuting them for it.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
23. There will no doubt be organized programs for that, but the most important thing is to get
Mon Jul 14, 2014, 12:24 AM
Jul 2014

the situation straightened out in Central America so that there is less crime and the children can be safe with their families.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
29. Yes. We should certainly be doing what we can to improve the situation
Mon Jul 14, 2014, 04:10 AM
Jul 2014

in those countries -- instead of making it worse, as we usually do.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
30. The verdict is not in yet, but I have heard that we may be at fault for what is going on.
Mon Jul 14, 2014, 05:51 AM
Jul 2014

I think the protocol from our embassy in Nicaragua looks good. Very comprehensive and not just feel-good stuff.

I think people have misunderstood what I have been saying on DU.

I think we should help the situation, but at its roots.

What happened to children (not just Jewish children but also children being removed from their homes to escape the constant bombing raids and those who lived through the terrible violence of the war) should not be allowed to happen anywhere in the world. Not in Iraq or Africa. Not in the US. And not in Central America.

We have to be well organized and realistic in changing the many situations in which children are abandoned by their families and harmed by war and violence.

Children who witness or are the victims of such violence can be harmed for the rest of their lives. It is not fair. I wonder why the parents in Central America are not protesting and standing up for peace right where they are.

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
26. Do you really believe that one day all these parents just said "f it, I'm done with my kids, send
Mon Jul 14, 2014, 12:47 AM
Jul 2014

them off to another country"?

Seriously?

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
11. If they have undocumented parents in the US, the immigration courts need to hear their
Sun Jul 13, 2014, 09:30 PM
Jul 2014

cases. The courts know the law and can apply it in each case. But you have to have enough judges to handle the heavy load.

If you are interested in how this works, I suggest that you find the address of the immigration court nearest to your home and go to watch a couple of sessions.

I was in these courts in Los Angeles on occasion a few years ago. Standing room only. The judge handled the cases with incredible speed. But to have an influx of undocumented children like this will take a lot of money, time, judges, courtrooms, lawyers, etc. Money, money, money and most of them will be sent home. Unless we get a Democratic House and Senate, there is virtually no chance of immigration reform.

It's sad. But this is how it is.

We could form a sort of American Union like the European Union within which people could move around from country to country, carry their health insurance with them, etc. work where they can find jobs and unite in that way. But I would not hold my breath.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
9. Not as bad as it is in some African and Asian countries.
Sun Jul 13, 2014, 09:24 PM
Jul 2014

I'm not judging anyone. I'm saying how the US justice system will view them.

You don't send your children to a foreign country unaccompanied unless you have prepared to have someone pick them up and take care of them.

This is abandonment in the US. We have laws that apply to abandoned children and the parents who abandon them.

Are you planning to open your home to some of these children?

Because if not, then what are you personally prepared to do for them?

They need families. They need housing that is safe. They need education. They are not just trash that their parents can throw out because it is too much trouble to take care of them. If the parents in Central America organized to demand that the police protect their children, this would not be a problem.

We should help take care of the problem where it exists -- in Central America.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
24. When you are an American or other First Worlder you don't do that yes
Mon Jul 14, 2014, 12:33 AM
Jul 2014

How do you know what you would do in the situation they are in?

Babel_17

(5,400 posts)
8. This is a wake up call that our neighbor's problems affect us
Sun Jul 13, 2014, 09:00 PM
Jul 2014

We need to sit down with our neighbors to the south and work this out. And we need to reverse course on our hurting their economies by way of causing them to lose jobs.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
12. how do you expect a conversation with such a condescending opening?
Sun Jul 13, 2014, 09:35 PM
Jul 2014

"This is a feel-good, I feel so sorry, issue for many DUers."

I'm not playing some game here and neither are the countless other Americans who expect our government to do more than just pack these children in buses or planes and send them back into jeopardy.

Finding adequate shelter and accommodations for these children has always been a priority expressed by opponents of administration intentions to deport these children.

Thing is, I think you're misrepresenting the reason they're arriving here and that is EVERYTHING when deciding their fate. It's good that you recognize that there has to be a comprehensive approach which does more than just warehouse these children. But, if that's just a precursor to returning these children back into harm's way, then it's a cynical and counterproductive effort, in the end.

The Center for American Progress has determined that violence, not 'deferred action' is driving the exodus. They've concluded that violence is causing children to flee Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador.

Violence is among of the main drivers causing the increase. Whereas Central American countries that are experiencing high levels of violence have seen thousands of children flee, others with lower levels of violence are not facing the same outflow.

By contrast, the evidence does not support the argument that DACA or lax border enforcement has caused the increase in children fleeing to the United States.




So, it's just unrealistic to think that were going to be solving the crises in Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador anytime soon.

Thing is, the U.S. government is already actively working to find and place these children in appropriate shelter. Whether you or I am able or even willing to take these children in is beside the point. We live in a nation with enough resources to handle this. People who spend their time griping about one solution or the other need to tell us where THEY believe it's appropriate to shelter these children. Proponents are already invested in the idea that our government take responsibility for doing that.

I don't know where you get the idea that taking the position of granting these children refugee status comes with some abandonment of responsibility for their ultimate placement in the U.S.. Support for the position of treating these children as refugees doesn't require that we take some sort of direct responsibility, that has always been the responsibility of the people who make the laws and administer them. That's not an irresponsible position to expect them to continue to work to find placement and accommodation.

If you notice, that abandonment of that responsibility and expectation is mainly coming from those who outright oppose their presence here, not proponents of sanctuary. I'm perfectly prepared to support a shift in priorities that provides the resources to make that happen.

It would be nice and fine for me to take a child in. That's not possible for me to do, but I don't have to make that personal commitment to advocate refugee status and recognizing these children as refugees shouldn't depend on me making that commitment.

In my state, several sites are already under consideration and at least one church has solicited funds from the federal government and is already housing several of these children in my state.

I just fail to see why you believe anyone here needs reminding of the challenges in accommodating these refugees. Our country has stepped up to the challenge in the past from other nations. Somehow, it's suddenly a big problem with some people when it comes to Central Americans.

Don't tell me this nation can't handle this; it can. And don't assume that proponents of refugee status are behind any doors about the challenges in finding placement for these refugee children.

G_j

(40,366 posts)
14. ‘Flee or die’: violence drives Central America’s child migrants to US border
Sun Jul 13, 2014, 11:43 PM
Jul 2014
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/09/central-america-child-migrants-us-border-crisis

Obama heads to Texas as the mirage of an open door on the southern border triggers a political storm in Washington

Jo Tuckman in San Pedro Sula
The Guardian, Wednesday 9 July 2014 11.28 EDT

A group of immigrants from Honduras and El Salvador who crossed the US-Mexico border illegally are stopped in Texas. Photograph: Eric Gay/AP


Two weeks ago, Karla arrived at the Texas border with her two very young children, her mother, and three siblings under the age of 15.

It had taken the family a month to make the 1,500 mile journey from their home in northern Honduras, travelling by bus through Guatemala and Mexico. They had sold everything they owned to pay a network of people smugglers who bribed the way clear through checkpoints along the route.

Karla headed north, partly because she had heard the US had begun allowing children to enter legally. This is what the smugglers were saying, and the family knew others who had safely made it across the frontier.

But the main motive for the journey was fear: Karla wanted to get beyond the reach of her father and his contacts in the street gangs which have helped turn Honduras into the country with the highest murder rate in the world.


Karla says her father was seeking revenge after he was convicted of raping her as a child and sent to prison. He had already hired a gunman to kill her older brother who fled illegally to the US.

When the gruelling journey eventually brought them to the banks of the Rio Bravo, Karla thought the family’s nightmare was finally over. But after putting themselves in the care of a US customs agent, a new one began.

Instead of being taken to a detention centre in Texas for processing, they were sent straight back to Mexican immigration control to be sent home.

..more..

---------

http://www.chron.com/news/texas/article/UN-pushes-for-migrants-to-be-called-refugees-5607969.php

UN pushes for migrants to be called refugees

By ALBERTO ARCE and MICHAEL WEISSENSTEIN, Associated Press | July 8, 2014 | Updated: July 8, 2014 9:32pm

SAN JOSE, Costa Rica (AP) — United Nations officials are pushing for many of the Central Americans fleeing to the U.S. to be treated as refugees displaced by armed conflict, a designation meant to increase pressure on the United States and Mexico to accept tens of thousands of people currently ineligible for asylum.

Officials with the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees say they hope to see movement toward a regional agreement on that status Thursday when migration and interior department representatives from the U.S., Mexico, and Central America meet in Nicaragua. The group will discuss updating a 30-year-old declaration regarding the obligations that nations have to aid refugees.

While such a resolution would lack any legal weight, the agency said it believes "the U.S. and Mexico should recognize that this is a refugee situation, which implies that they shouldn't be automatically sent to their home countries but rather receive international protection."

Most of the people widely considered to be refugees by the international community are fleeing more traditional political or ethnic conflicts like those in Syria or the Sudan. Central Americans would be among the first modern migrants considered refugees because they are fleeing violence and extortion at the hands of criminal gangs.

Central America's Northern Triangle of Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras has become one of the most violent regions on earth in recent years, with swathes of all three countries under the control of drug traffickers and street gangs who rob, rape and extort ordinary citizens with impunity.

Honduras, a primary transit point for U.S.-bound cocaine, has the world's highest homicide rate for a nation that is not at war. Hondurans who are used to hiding indoors at night have been terrorized anew in recent months by a wave of attacks against churches, schools and buses.

..more..

G_j

(40,366 posts)
20. these stories
Mon Jul 14, 2014, 12:08 AM
Jul 2014

really help to put faces on the situation. I think they should be treated as refugees.

yodermon

(6,143 posts)
15. THEY ARE REFUGEES. The journey is NOT more dangerous than their home situation.
Sun Jul 13, 2014, 11:45 PM
Jul 2014

5 minutes of googling got me this:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/09/central-america-child-migrants-us-border-crisis

"Flee or Die"

Karla headed north, partly because she had heard the US had begun allowing children to enter legally. This is what the smugglers were saying, and the family knew others who had safely made it across the frontier.

But the main motive for the journey was fear: Karla wanted to get beyond the reach of her father and his contacts in the street gangs that have turned Honduras into the country with the highest murder rate in the world.

Karla says her father was seeking revenge after he was convicted of raping her as a child and sent to prison. He had already hired a gunman to kill her older brother who fled illegally to the US.

<snip>

San Pedro Sula is the most violent city in the world, with a murder rate of around 180 per 100,000. Surviving here begins with knowing the invisible lines that mark the boundaries of rival gang territories, and respecting the de facto curfew that falls at sunset. It is also important to see, hear and say as little as possible. Most residents who agree to speak to a journalist do so anonymously.

There is no choice, they say, but to accept the “war taxes” the gangs extort from businesses, or the “protection taxes” they levy on family homes. If there is a murder, it is better not to go to the funeral. Church organisations and some NGOs do have a presence, but some will admit they have to obtain permission from the gangs and stay away from controversial topics.

<snip>

Stories are also piling up of young children forced to work as lookouts, messengers or spies for the gangs. Eight children, between the ages of 7 and 13, were kidnapped and killed in La Pardera barrio during May. Word on the street is that they were killed for refusing to join the dominant local gang.

<snip>

The gravity of the situation was reflected on Wednesday, when the UN high commission for refugees called for Central American migrants to be treated as refugees displaced by armed conflict. “The US and Mexico should recognise that this is a refugee situation, which implies that they shouldn’t be automatically sent to their home countries but rather, receive international protection,” the agency said.


Much more at link.
Also here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/31/central-america-migrants-flee-mexico

I agree that these situations in Central America are the root cause of the recent influx, and our ultimate goal should be to solve those problems.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
17. Our US Embassy in Nicaragua issued this plan and statement after a meeting there today.
Mon Jul 14, 2014, 12:02 AM
Jul 2014

This is an international issue. That is particularly true if it is found to qualify as a refugee issue.

http://mexico.usembassy.gov/press-releases/managua-extraordinary-declaration.html

The mothers should not send their children unaccompanied in the hands of strangers into a foreign country without knowing someone will meet them.

Looks like the US and the Central American governments plan to set up a process for handling these cases. I hope that they also return the home countries to a state of law and order.

I hope also that we here learn how important it is to have a functioning and fair legal system that treats everyone as equals.

Sounds to me like Central America is a lawless place in which the laws are not enforced. Again, it is an international problem.

The logistics of taking children into our immigration system just because they turn up alone and scared at our border is not an immigration policy.

The Managua statement sounds like a policy.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
25. these children aren't migrants, they're refugees
Mon Jul 14, 2014, 12:44 AM
Jul 2014

. . . basically, all of your arguments come down to the same conclusion: You don't believe they belong here because you view them as immigrants.

However, that determination should be made on an individual basis by an immigration judge, not summarily and collectively. We could even set up asylum centers in their home countries and place judges there. We should allow for a stay of at least 60 to 90 days to provide the children with the opportunity to stage some sort of defense. Lawyers should be provided and other advocate officials should be assigned to conduct fair and impartial interviews.

If we can't determine refugee status according to U.S. criteria, any expectation of violence in their home countries upon return should allow them to remain in the U.S. like we did Haitians and Cambodians under some sort of legal agreement.

What the administration wants is to just summarily return them as they capture them. They even want to eliminate many legal protections to speed up their return. There's no expectation of any due process in that.

The U.S. expects and usually makes demands that other countries take in refugees and many do so by the millions. Currently we grant just under 300,000 individuals refugee status.

You've garbled and misrepresented the U.S. policy in your posts and left out any consideration of these children as refugees. That's the flaw in your argument. You can't make that determination; a judge should be required to adequately answer the question of their status.

It seems to me that when talking about the lives and welfare of children, we shouldn't be making these judgments in the field (as the administration is angling to settle for), rather we should establish a process where we adjudicate each case individually and ensure that there's proper and adequate representation for the children.

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