If I offered to sell you a Nazi era BMW motorbike complete with SS insignia and death's head

[Gravitycollapse]

How disturbed would you be?

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/mcy/4564000531.html

Great looking piece for the military collector.

[msongs]

1. if it is an authentic historical artifact, not disturbed. don't need one tho. after all bible era

artifacts sell and those people were not that nice either in many cases.

[Gravitycollapse]

2. I'm sorry, did you just try to describe the SS as "not that nice...in many cases?"

[msongs]

25. people in the bible era were not that nice in many cases nt

[Gravitycollapse]

5. Would you like to hang some spent Zyklon B canisters on your wall to help spark conversation?

I don't need a personal motorbike of the SS to be in my possession to discuss the horror of Nazism.

[Baclava]

31. SS Sturmbannführer von Brauns's Nazi rockets took us to the moon and you're worried about a bike?

Heil NASA!

[All_Corners]

48. So....

... Don't?

I'll bet that if you could find authentic canisters from Auschwitz that there are several Jewish history museums that would want it as part of their collection.

[IronGate]

7. I would snap it up in a heartbeat.

Like it or not, it's a piece of history.

[Gravitycollapse]

8. It probably belongs in a museum documenting the horror of the Third Reich.

Not ogled over and ridden around to the local motorcycle shows.

That was the underlying point of my OP. I'm disturbed by the fact that someone wants to profit off a piece of the Nazi war machine.

[IronGate]

10. Oh, I wouldn't ride it around,

I'd loan it to a museum for exactly what your suggesting.

[Luminous Animal]

11. Yep.

[Humanist_Activist]

45. I don't understand what's disturbing, there is a lot of Nazi memorabilia floating around...

especially in the States that was, and, I'll say it, outright stolen by American GIs after the war. Outside of items that do have legitimate owners today that should have their belongings returned, or are human remains, what's the big deal here?

[Luminous Animal]

9. And then what would you do with it?

[IronGate]

12. See post #10. nt.

[Luminous Animal]

15. Why loan and not give?

[IronGate]

16. Why not loan and keep?

If I pay for it, I'm keeping it.

[joshcryer]

13. I'd buy it, disassemble it, and destroy it.

I would scan in and document the entire process though.

[Gravitycollapse]

17. A noble cause, I suppose. But I could not endorse anyone paying money for such a monstrosity.

[joshcryer]

18. I'd rather have access to it to do that.

Then return it. Regardless, I'd like to see the actual product destroyed. Material things and all that. Material things of a bygone past of pure evil...

[SpartanDem]

19. What next torching some local museums

because some artifact deal with unpleasant history?

[joshcryer]

20. I think it's proper to record the artifact.

But to preserve it forever I think is unnecessary, yes.

[atreides1]

51. No

There are many artifacts that have been collected and displayed by the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington D.C....would you destroy those as well?

[Barack_America]

36. And that would accomplish?

[joshcryer]

38. The absolute digitization of a Nazi era artifact.

Which can be endlessly copied, analyzed, and replicated, to ones hearts content.

But the original would be forever destroyed, as it was created by a totalitarian, evil, regime.

[steve2470]

21. I'd be tempted to buy it and just give it to the Smithsonian nt

[JayhawkSD]

22. To those who would destroy it...

"Never forget."

[joshcryer]

24. I think I'm the only one who said that.

I said to record it, so it wouldn't be forgotten and replicas could be easily produced and displayed.

[TheBlackAdder]

29. Why create replicas when the actual historical artifact would be emotionally moving?

Your statement doesn't make any sense to me.

If you want replicas, keep the original and make replicas of the original. Making replicas from photos only comes close, such as the model train manufacturers who try to build models off of photos, only to find their measurements and details were way off when laser measuring the original.

Nothing is gained by destroying the original. Nothing at all.

But, once the originals are gone, the conspiracists and racists will move that much closer to pushing their denial of Third Reich atrocities.

[joshcryer]

32. Because, fuck the actual historical artifact?

Next you'll be asking for us to keep the Jonestown plastic cups...

[Humanist_Activist]

33. Why destroy the historical artifact in the first place, what purpose would that serve?

My Grandfather came home with a couple of souvenirs of WWII, namely a K-98 Mauser and a Luger pistol. I do know that there's an extremely small Nazi Germany logo stamped into the barrel of the Mauser, not sure about the Luger, I only saw it once. My dad has the Mauser, my uncle keeps the Luger. They are, outside of non-functional replicas and one functional muzzleloader, the only guns owned by our family. Mostly sentimental, though my dad keeps the Mauser maintained and fires it at least once a year on a range.

As for why they have them, well, my grandfather used to go deer hunting, and he got a free, decent, deer-hunting rifle that he modified slightly, and a free handgun, though I don't know if he ever used it for anything. Should he have destroyed them instead?

[joshcryer]

37. The originals cannot last forever.

Should they be perpetually upkept, parts replaced, until, eventually, nothing of the original is there? Does that convey some nostalgia? What harm is it to break it down, record every aspect of it, and then produce it for the world to see?

I'm saying, simply put, that one object is not the end all of some historical period of time.

Keep your Nazi gun, kill shit with it, I don't care.

[Humanist_Activist]

39. Uhm, you are the one advocating destroying these items for no reason I can discern...

except...spite? The burden is on you to justify why the destruction of historical artifacts is necessary or needed.

I don't understand your objection at attempting to keep originals around, I recently went to our local Art Museum and they have a new exhibit on Arms and Armor from Late Middle Ages to Renaissance era, roughly, these are NOT replicas, but originals, and they were nice to see, everything from full suits of armor to wheel lock pistols and crossbows. They even put on the info plates the estimated dates of manufacture, who owned what, what battles some were known to have been used in, etc.

It may be irrational sentimentality, but we humans seem to add value to objects that have a history, whether good or bad, and assign no value to replicas of the same. In a sense this would be true whether its mundane objects or art, you can order a billion prints of the Mona Lisa, they could replicate it to the atomic level with the original, and they would still be worth nothing next to it.

[joshcryer]

40. Not spite, irreverence.

I really couldn't care the fuck less about some artifacts that represent the lowest of the low of human civilization.

[Humanist_Activist]

42. Apparently you do, you are commenting on this thread, and advocating for their destruction...

using quite strong words, I might add, for what are, at this time, inert objects with some historical value attached to them.

This goes far beyond simple irreverence.

[joshcryer]

43. You should perhaps look up "irreverence."

[Humanist_Activist]

44. The problem is that you seem to have aimed your irreverence, which is...

only a lack of respect, I might add, at history itself, or the objects in question, rather than Nazis or Naziism.

You also failed to justify the destruction in the first place, outside of personal hostility towards inanimate objects.

[joshcryer]

47. And?

I fail to see the issue.

[TheBlackAdder]

60. Yes, you do fail to see the issue.

That is why it is futile to discuss this matter with you.

[woo me with science]

59. +100000 Indeed.

Thank you.

[TheBlackAdder]

26. I would donate it to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

http://www.ushmm.org/

Destroying a historical artifact like that would not be the proper avenue.

[steve2470]

30. yes your idea is better than mine, for sure nt

[CTyankee]

50. probably the best idea, giving it the proper context...

it was an instrument of war and genocide and should be regarded that way...

[nomorenomore08]

28. I agree with you that it should be in a museum. Though who knows if the thing even runs

after 70 years?

But yes, that offer would certainly be unnerving, if made to me personally.

[hobbit709]

34. take off the Nazi stuff and it's just a BMW motorcycle.

[Barack_America]

35. Unfortunate graphics aside, that's a sweet bike. Nt

[Humanist_Activist]

41. I'd buy it and give it to my Dad or Uncle, they goes nuts over old vehicles, he has a

1950s Metro.

My dad also likes war related stuff, mostly WWII and Civil War.

My interests are in computers, someone find me an original Enigma machine, and that will be kickass.

[Katashi_itto]

46. Oh hell yes I would buy it. I make movies, one hell of a prop!

[CBGLuthier]

49. I would buy it and give it a nice rainbow paint job.

Always wanted a side car like my idol Barney Fife.

[PeteSelman]

52. Wouldn't be disturbed at all.

If I had throwaway money I'd buy it. It's a pretty cool piece of history.

[Coventina]

53. It belongs in a museum. It needs to be seen.

It is an important historical artifact.

It needs to be a sobering reminder of the brutality of the Nazi regime, and the collaboration of BMW with it.

[MineralMan]

54. I could not afford such a thing, in the first place.

If I could, I would buy it and donate it to a holocaust museum of some kind. The actual value of that motorcycle, in the excellent condition it appears to be in, is very high. It's a museum piece, and is likely one of very few that has survived in its original condition.

But, I couldn't afford it in any case.

[YarnAddict]

55. It is an actual historical artifact

Yes, if the price was right, I would buy it.

I am kind of a history buff. I go to lots of museums, and inevitably find myself wondering about the people who actually touched/used the items on display, in a way that seeing a replica never would.

My dad is a WWII vet, and he brought home a couple of things--a German army mess kit, and some SS insignia. I wonder about the people they belonged to? What happened to cause them to buy into such a heinous ideology. Whether they ever became disillusioned with their Fuhrer. About their mothers, fathers, wives, children.

[Capt. Obvious]

56. I would disassemble it into a million pieces

and eat it.

[Nye Bevan]

57. Not at all disturbed (nt)

[IronLionZion]

58. Awareness and study of history is the only way

to make sure it never happens again. Never forget.

It probably belongs in a museum. Having it in private collection makes it a target for vandalism or theft or even judgment from visitors.

[dembotoz]

61. if authentic.....

we live in an era when history is rewritten at the drop of a hat.
needs to be in tact at a museum on display

the death camps need to be on display
the graves need to be on display
to documents need to be on display

all need to be on display so that when clowns try to bleach the history. the history remains intact

it is all part of Never forget

[Throd]

62. How about Confederate Army artifacts? Should they all be destroyed?