General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHe's the oil and gas President, not the environmental president.
President Obama will not be remembered kindly on the environment. Actions speak louder than words. And his actions have been more pro big oil and gas than pro environment. Combined with his strong support for fracking, this latest, really egregious opening of the eastern seaboard to gas and oil exploration, illustrates how pro-corporate and pro oil and gas, this President is. He gives good speeches on the environment and global climate change, but many of his policies belie his words.
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The cannons create noise pollution in waters shared by whales, dolphins and turtles, sending sound waves 100 times louder than a jet engine reverberating through the deep every ten seconds for weeks at a time. Arguing that endangered species could be harmed was the environmental groups' best hope for extending a decades-old ban against drilling off the U.S. Atlantic coast.
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The surveys also can map marine habitats and identify solid undersea flooring for wind energy turbines. But fossil fuel mostly funds this research, and corporations keep the data secret, disclosing it only to the government.
The sonic cannons are often fired continually for weeks or months, and multiple mapping projects may operate simultaneously. To get permits, companies will need to have whale-spotting observers onboard and do undersea acoustic tests to avoid nearby species. Certain habitats will be closed during birthing or feeding seasons.
Still, underwater microphones have picked up blasts from these sonic cannons over distances of thousands of miles, and the constant banging amplified in water by orders of magnitude will be impossible for many species to avoid.
Whales and dolphins depend on being able to hear their own much less powerful echolocation to feed, communicate and keep in touch with their family groups across hundreds of miles. Even fish and crabs navigate and communicate by sound, said Grant Gilmore, an expert on fish ecology in Vero Beach, Fla.
"We don't know what the physiological effects are. It could be permanent hearing damage in many of these creatures just by one encounter with a high-energy signal," Gilmore said.
More than 120,000 comments were sent to the government, which spent years developing these rules. The bureau's environmental impact study estimates that more than 138,000 sea creatures could be harmed, including nine of the world's remaining 500 north Atlantic right whales.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/east-coast-oil-exploration-_n_5599674.html
His heart belongs to corporations.
leftstreet
(36,101 posts)billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Our party has been infiltrated by corporatists and foreign and domestic war profiteers who mislead the moderate fools in our ranks who care more about status, image and acceptance then they do the issues. Anyone can SAY anything in a speech. Bush could give a speech about being compassionate and then murder a 100,000 people. He was just stupider and clumsier but Obama had many of the same actions...some even worse because the center had been successfully moved farther right.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)Change has come
(2,372 posts)I can't imagine how far right we'll be if HRC is elected
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)billhicks76
(5,082 posts)People prefer things in more simple terms
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)and a diversion. The tar sands oil will continue being extracted and delivered. Rail transport has increased 800% over the last few years Fracking is a greater threat and one which the U.S. can actually do something about as it's happening in the U.S.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)If so, then I would expect industry to let the project die a quiet death.
rickyhall
(4,889 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Big Oil's report on exploding tank cars:
daleanime
(17,796 posts)they won't see that as sufficient reason to stop.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)tanker cars won't be able to cross the border.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)But after November...and probably the congress will force him too somehow.
If Koch industries wants that pipeline they will get it...and we will get good reasons why they should.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)after the election. Watch the lame duck Congress which is generally where these things get passed. What can we do to stop them? I am not hopeful there is anything. They lie when they run for office so what they SAY is not guarantee.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And I don't have a lot of hope ethier...and I wish I had a plan to stop it but I don't.
The only hope I have is that we will wise up to the game and stop playing it.
obxhead
(8,434 posts)It is simply about making it cheaper to export it abroad.
The tar oil will flow, the XL just makes it easier to sell.
IronLionZion
(45,380 posts)since the Keystone pipeline is a thing that exists and does pipe lots of oil down to Texas without going over any aquifers, for some reason these assholes want to build another pipeline routed over a major aquifer for no apparent reason except to bitch about the "socialist" president who is "anti business" apparently.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)The Gulf is nasty with wells belching fire into the night and now this is what we have to look forward to, yippie?
Oh, and for those who think that he's not going to allow the KXL pipeline to go through...... uh huh, I've a bridge I'd like to sell you.
cali
(114,904 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts)I would imagine it's easy legislation to get through with state of congress. It's like we have no brains and can't see for ourselves what's going on. Maybe we don't have a clue what's going on behind the scenes, but what I'm seeing is obvious and pretty awful.
Is there anyone in the cabinet unaware of how the Germans are doing it? We elect them and pay their salaries to represent us, I say we're being robbed plain as day.
-p
nickknack
(4 posts)leftstreet
(36,101 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,528 posts)I am beyond disappointed. You are so right about where his heart belongs.
K&R
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)They think they'll get 4.72 billion barrels of oil. And the US uses something like 20 million barrels/day.
http://maps.unomaha.edu/peterson/funda/sidebar/oilconsumption.html
So we're going to risk destroying the entire east coast from Florida to Maine. For 236 days worth of oil.
Oh wait, and they'll also get 37.51 trillion cubic ft of nat gas, and the US uses over 24 trillion feet per year. http://www.worldwatch.org/global-natural-gas-consumption-regains-momentum-0
So we'll get enough natural gas for over 18 months!!!!!
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)Which has been worked on by thousands of people in government.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Please. Energy independent at what cost? Our drinking water? Our forests? We could just burn wood after all. National parks have lots of free wood.
The roadmap is pretty clear. "Exhaust all resources while building renewables."
It's the "market strategy." As opposed to a grand bargain.
It's one reason I disagree with Al Gore's "green capitalism" approach (offsets, ugh, cap and trade, ugh ugh).
But that's unfortunately the trajectory.
And yes, I think Obama earnestly believes it's the correct course of action. And to be frank he doesn't have the political capital to make a grand bargain.
jillan
(39,451 posts)imthevicar
(811 posts)The POTUS is a tool of the 1%. He should have quit if he wasn't going to fight.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)I've long thought he might do more to keep that blemish off of his legacy, but am afrain it ain't gonna happen.
http://desmog.ca/2014/07/18/u-s-joins-canada-and-oil-industry-lobbying-offensive-keep-europe-open-oilsands
He'll be just one of many actors that history will surely judge harshly otherwise.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/07/16/3460540/collapse-of-western-civilization-oreskes-conway/
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)obxhead
(8,434 posts)That's what Clinton will bring.
Medical, taxation, environment, economy, war etc.... It will all be continued and intensified.
Sure, a Republican will be worse, but it's by a matter of increments, tiny at that.
supercats
(429 posts)Thats why I will not vote for Hillary. We need REAL (positive) change in America. We need a game changer, not someone who will continue along this 3 decades old path. I would hope it to be Elizabeth Warren. I agree with her, but when wall street and big oil dangle that carrot will she grab it like all the other presidents since Nixon have (except Carter)???
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)Tommymac
(7,263 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)Remember that one?
flvegan
(64,406 posts)They all are. Every single one of them they'll trot out for us to "choose" to lead this country will be beholden to monetary interests. THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT. Get over it.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Corporations in charge of everything will make everything great for everybody.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)Hekate
(90,564 posts)....that if we send Obama a Congress who will work with him and if the next POTUS is a Dem, we can use the breathing space to implement alternative energy plans at a great pace. That seems to make a lot of sense.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)We got the complete corporatization of health care, forever. Your premise has been proven false.
Hekate
(90,564 posts)Ducky
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)70? 90?
Face it - if 60 wasn't enough, he really didn't want to change anything. And his DINO agenda has decimated the party.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)That's why gas is $4.30 a gallon.
Excellent!
We're all paying more to destroy our planet. Yay.
Amonester
(11,541 posts)You're lucky it's not higher than that like it is everywhere else (taxed like you have no idea)
Please elaborate? How is it that it is easier to get off fossil fuels when it will cost us jobs as opposed to foreign jobs?
Obama had that Congress when he started
progressoid
(49,951 posts)obxhead
(8,434 posts)I could have it delivered by Tuesday if interested.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)That's amazing. Because I seem to remember, about two weeks ago, everyone cheering when the Department of Energy approved the first step in a loan guarantee to Cape Wind Farm. http://energy.gov/articles/energy-department-offers-conditional-commitment-cape-wind-offshore-wind-generation-projec-0
Well, you just wait until the Rethugs figure out how to stop that, or something.
Just because Cape Wind has already signed agreements in which the National Grid will be buying at least half of the energy is no reason to think that there can be any movement away from Drill baby Drill. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Wind
I guess we need the oil drilling to make sure our gas guzzling cars are able to move. Obviously no progress is being made on fuel economy, or alternative energy issues. http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/concept-cars/vw-reveals-new-300mpg-coupe
Damn it. Um, perhaps we have to drill because. Well perhaps we need to go hog wild with the drilling because...
Um. Yeah. It's all the Republicans fault. Or something. It couldn't be that we have a weak Individual in the White House who is scrambling trying to get more people to approve of him? No, it couldn't be that. http://www.api.org/news-and-media/news/newsitems/2013/oct-2013/poll-shows-florida-voters-strongly-support-offshore-drilling
Ok, maybe it is that. Maybe this announcement is a desperate attempt by a guy who's trying to get popular again. Like a high school boy who runs to his friends to swear he just got laid by one of the cheerleaders.
I say that because there is no other possible reason for it. We are using less oil. That fact is undeniable, so there is no dramatic increase in usage to justify the drill baby drill mentality. Oil Prices are steady and well below the record highs of a while ago. The public is not screaming about gasoline prices.
Fracking is about as popular as Congress around the nation. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/10/california-fracking-poll_n_3415925.html
So I don't see the real strategic advantage in a sense of you know, need. So what is left? Public Opinion. The President is pandering, sucking up in a desperate effort to get his approval numbers up. Neither he nor the party care if they shit on the Liberals, we smile and say happy to vote for you, when do you need me to volunteer to man the phones to beg people to vote for you? Can I give you a donation now? Or would it be better to wait until next week?
President Obama is running around trying to gin up his Approval numbers. Nothing else makes sense. He's been below 50% for so long that the bet every week isn't if he'll be below 50%, but how far below. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html
Now, you can blame the Republicans, but the facts are that progress is being made on alternative energy despite the gridlock. You can blame anything, or anyone you want. But one man went out and gave the speech. One man went out and outlined the policy. The same one man who had the power to veto the PATRIOT ACT. The same one man who could order the NSA to shut down the illegal surveillance in a single sentence. Somebody else posted that President Obama was a disappointment, but at least we already know that Hillary is a corporatist. He's the thing. I don't think Hillary would be doing these things. Oh she would not be the Liberal Dream in the Oval Office, make no mistake about that. But she wouldn't be doing this.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)the most corporate president in history.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)Hillary is 100 times worse.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)So who held a gun to his head and forced him to cave in? Did the Republicans in Congress offer to give in on funding schools if President Obama caved? Was this part of some larger deal that we haven't seen yet? Perhaps Bonehead won't sue if the President fires up the black and decker planet wrecker drilling platform?
He tried. Trying is when you veto something and the Congress passes it over your objections. Trying is when you are ordered to do so by the courts. Tried is when you gave it some effort and lost. Tried is not when without some significant pressure to do so, like public pressure in response to high gas prices. Nope, there hasn't been much of that, any really. Just out of the clear blue sky. A lightning bolt.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Samantha
(9,314 posts)I can't believe it.
Sam
Response to cali (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
spanone
(135,795 posts)krawhitham
(4,641 posts)Divernan
(15,480 posts)michello
(132 posts)Can you tag me when she comes back?
Divernan
(15,480 posts)The use of seismic airguns is the first step to expanding dirty and dangerous offshore drilling to the Atlantic Ocean, bringing us one step closer to another disaster like the BP Deepwater Horizon oil spill. During this process, our government will jeopardize the health of large numbers of dolphins and whales as well as commercial and recreational fisheries, tourism and coastal recreation putting more than 730,000 jobs in the blast zone at risk.
According to the governments own estimates, these dynamite-like blasts could injure and possibly kill up to 138,200 marine mammals, while disrupting the necessary activities of millions more. Impacts to marine mammals could include everything from temporary or permanent hearing loss, to disruption of vital behaviors like communicating, feeding, mating, calving and migrating, and masking of biologically important sounds.
The Obama administration has apparently learned nothing from the destruction that similar testing has caused off the coasts of Namibia, Australia and Madagascar, which resulted in declines in tuna catch, decreased productivity of the scallop fishery and melon-headed whales being scared into a shallow lagoon where they later died. They seem to be ignoring the voices of concern and opposition from more than 50 Members of Congress, over 100 scientists, 16 coastal towns, 78 local elected officials, 163 conservation and animal welfare organizations, and commercial and recreational fishing groups.
Seismic airguns create one of the loudest manmade sounds in the ocean, each 100,000 times more intense than what one would experience if standing near a jet engine. These dynamite-like blasts will occur every 10 seconds, for days to weeks at a time. They are loud enough to kill small organisms like fish eggs and larvae at close ranges and can disrupt the behavior of large animals like whales and dolphins from up to 100 miles away.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/07/18/1314891/-WTF-Obama-opens-East-Coast-to-oil-search
Airgun blasts kill fish eggs and larvae and scare away fish from important habitats. Following seismic surveys catch rates of cod and haddock declined by 40 to 80 percent for thousands of miles.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)K&R
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)on important issues. Now I see it was the plan all along.
Thanks for this, cali. We need transparency in government, even if we are the ones who have to provide it.
K&R
womanofthehills
(8,661 posts)We have overtaken Saudi Arabia. Much of it is happening in SE New Mexico, West Texas, and North Dakota - extracting oil from shale by fracking. I live in a small town near Mountainair, NM & we are fighting Kinder Morgan bringing a CO2 pipeline through our land going to the Permian Basin. CO2 is heavier than air and if there is a large rupture in the pipeline we are doomed (axphyxiated).
Next, we are going to ruin our land and water even more to export the damn oil. Me - I have a passive solar house and solar panels for electricity.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-04/u-s-seen-as-biggest-oil-producer-after-overtaking-saudi.html
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
cali
(114,904 posts)kentuck
(111,053 posts)He will need a lot of money to compete with the tax-free Clinton Initiative..
Orsino
(37,428 posts)d_b
(7,462 posts)and he turned out to be a fraud. That's not our fault. At least we know Hillary is a vampire, so no sting of betrayal there.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Was Obama the "Drill, Baby, Drill" candidate,
or was that the other guy?
polichick
(37,152 posts)Wonder who they'll serve up next time.
polichick
(37,152 posts)Article with interesting map showing local opposition:
http://oceana.org/en/our-work/climate-energy/seismic-airgun-blasting/overview
greiner3
(5,214 posts)An opportunity to see how many posters I have on ignore.
I do agree with the premise that President Obama's energy policies are pretty crappy, from a Progressive's point of view.
But all the love (read hate) here is pretty amazing.
BTW, I stopped counting at 10 the number of 'ignores' I counted.
polichick
(37,152 posts)emsimon33
(3,128 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Dustlawyer
(10,494 posts)BP never had to put the 20 billion in, they stopped at 7! He gave the U.S. Coast guard to do BP's bidding and spray Corexit all over the Gulf to hide their oil on the bottom and then agree with BP that it just disappeared. He hasn't been back or mentioned it again. It served its purpose to get the media to move on. He sold us out, pure and simple!