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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTo the Word Police and the Habitual Offenders...
You know who you are. Listen up. I'm going to lecture to you.
George Carlin famously recited the seven words you cannot say on television. In that act, he observed that there are no bad words. There are bad thoughts and bad intentions. And then there are words.
One of the words among the seven is the C word (I think its #4 if I am recalling it correctly). But George clearly did not utter that word as a misogynist. He clearly did NOT INTEND to demean women in any way when he included that word on the list. His commentary was about censorship on the airways, and that word was one of the seven not allowed. Being a fan of Mr. Carlins work, I suspect his use of the word in that context may even have been an intentional example of the very point he was making. Words are merely words, and in almost every instance they do not matter nearly as much as the thoughts and intentions behind them.
Similarly, Don Henley used the caricature of the bubble headed bleached blonde in his lyrics to the song Dirty Laundry. He wasn't attacking women or even blonde women. His point was clearly a condemnation of the news channels that were packaging the so-called news in a titillating and sensational form without much concern for content or substance. They want us expect us - to just look at the on-air talent, and not really care whether or not what they say is actually something we need to know.
Most words have multiple meanings, and most meanings can be expressed with different words. For example: If I get pissed off at someone, I might refer to them as a fucking asshole. When my daughter was a few years younger, and became pissed off at her little brother, she might have called him a poopy head. Very different words, but based on the look on my daughters face and the tone she used, they would seem to carry the exact same meaning. Now, shes a little older. She sometimes affectionately calls our family dog a poopy head while she scratches him behind the ear. Exact same words, but very different intentions and thoughts behind them. Sometimes context really IS everything.
On the other hand, you would have to be an abject moron not to realize and appreciate that some phrases and words have evolved in our culture to have a highly offensive subtext. The less than exemplary history of the human race has naturally become a part of our lexicon, sometimes directly, and sometimes in an insidious, creeping way. We have done some horrible things, and then we talked about it. And if the conduct was bad enough, we may have even talked about it in code. Even if we have stopped doing the horrible things, or have curtailed doing them, or have done them differently, often the language references, sayings and phrases persist. A very rational and logical case can be made that the continued use of such words or phrases acts to continue the oppression or abuse at issue, or at least acts to subtly normalize it and condition acceptance or resignation to it. And this can occur even if youre not aware of the history. If you are genuinely a progressive, you should not want any part of that, right? We should respect those we know are here wherever here might be enough to use some common sense and courtesy.
And sometimes, a word itself evolves into a new meaning, and becomes loaded with offensive character as a result. The new meaning is capable of surpassing or overshadowing the original meaning so much so that even using it in the context of the original meaning can be unwise. Im trying not to use examples here, but in this instance the B word fits too perfectly to omit. Sure, you can use it to refer to a female canine. Thats a proper use of the word, no one should be offended by its use in that context, and - damn it - you have a RIGHT (maybe its in the Constitution somewhere?) to use it!!! But why do that when you can just say my dog is a female? While its not your fault that our society has seen fit to attach a vulgar meaning to that word one that is genuinely despised by women almost universally - society has nevertheless done so, and we all know it. So, if you use that word to describe your female dog, you shouldn't be surprised if it elicits an unfriendly reaction. And you shouldn't be surprised if people assume youre baiting that reaction. Because you probably are.
While Carlin was generally correct, and intentions and thoughts almost always matter more than actual words, words do still matter some. There ARE some that are simply offensive in almost any context, and you have to be very careful how you use them. Most of us are not skilled enough as wordsmiths to pull it off, so we shouldn't even try.
So, to the WORD POLICE: the next time someone uses a word or phrase in one of their posts that, on its face, could be taken as offensive before you alert, before you fire up the flame thrower and drop a thread-bomb on it look at the post again. Read it again carefully. Then re-read it yet again. And try to determine if the thoughts and intentions behind the words are bad. You might want to say to yourself Wow. That phrase could be offensive in the right context so maybe I should try to discern the context before I respond. If you satisfy yourself as objectively as possible - that the post WAS the product of bad thoughts or bad intentions, then by all means have at em. I suspect most DUers will support you.
But if it seems clear the phrase used is NOT in the context that might make it offensive, or if it looks like the poster used it thoughtlessly without consideration of its potentially offensive character, back off. You do little to garner support, and even less to raise awareness, when you pile on another poster merely for paraphrasing William Congreves 17th century prose in The Mourning Bride. I think you might have much more success if you politely point out how the words could be viewed as offensive. Give some history. Share your opinion. You may even educate someone or help shape a point of view to a more progressive mindset. Wouldn't it be more satisfying to see a reply that says Damn. I never thought of it that way. Thanks. I've learned something today and I will never use the phrase monkey porn again? Isn't that preferable to the inevitable descent into a squabble-off that serves no purpose other than to be a platform to show off your clever wit and brilliant, biting sarcasm? (Do I need the sarcasm thingy after I just used the word sarcasm in the sarcastic comment?).
If, on the other hand, youre the alleged HABITUAL OFFENDER, youre going to need to recognize that it is entirely possible that you may have used a phrase or word in a post that you didn't think was offensive, or at least that you didn't think was offensive in the context in which you used it or intended to use it. But then someone politely POLITELY - points out that it could be taken the wrong way. Take a minute to reflect on it before you begin typing a reply. Dont reflexively start pounding out Here we go again
or I was wondering how long it would take
shit, where is that eye roll emoticon again
Instead, look at your post. Read it again carefully. Re-read it a third time. Try to understand why someone might have taken offense. You might actually learn something about how to be a better progressive. That has happened to me a number of times, and while part of me is sometimes embarrassed and tempted to respond in a defensive way I try to remember that becoming a better progressive is why most of us are here, and that the varying viewpoints from the many perspectives of our society is really the beauty of the Democratic Party. Big tent, and all.
And remember that if you have said something that appears to have offended someone, it really doesn't matter whether or not YOU would have been offended by it, or whether YOU think THEY should have been offended by it. Its not so mush about you at that point. Person-up and apologize, and explain that you weren't trying to be an asshole, maybe even edit if appropriate. Then leave it alone. You might be genuinely surprised at how people customarily respond to a sincere apology. If they keep at you, however, then youre probably dealing with a Troll, and theyll stay around only as long as you feed them.
Of course, if you WERE trying to be an asshole, and you actually are a habitual offender, then you deserve what you get. And if you were trying to be an asshole, AND the poster giving you grief is also a Troll, please take it to PM. The rest of us are tired of the AvT Wars, especially when we already know that, in the end, everyone will be dead except for Sigourney Weaver and Danny Glover.
NOTE 1: If you think this post is condescending (i.e., its speaking to you as if youre a child), youre absolutely right. I got these guidelines about how to have an adult exchange of ideas from my 7 year old, and hes condescending as Hell!
NOTE 2: This post is in no way intended to condone the production and distribution of monkey porn. It is a heinous practice, and should be banned in all countries.
NOTE 3: All references to Trolls are to the horrid little creature more commonly known as the Internet Troll. If you are an actual Troll, or if you have friends or family who are actual Trolls, no offense is intended. And thanks for looking out for our bridges.
NOTE 4: I apologize to any canine rights activists for the reckless conduct of my daughter. She does not intend to damage the self esteem of the family dog by suggesting that he has fecal matter between his ears (although I have seen him roll around in it, so it may actually be a factual characterization). I have advised her to stop, and we are getting him counseling.
Ohio Joe
(21,753 posts)How many words do we have and you seriously have to be able to use one of the handful that you know will offend?
What is it exactly you want to say that you simply have no other way to say it?
Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)The word fuck is needed, and appropriate?, at times.
Good lecture, Whiskeytide!
Ohio Joe
(21,753 posts)I'd be willing to bet every time it has been hidden on someone, is when it is used as 'fuck you', at someone. Fuckin-A though, just using it does not get a hide.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)I would have been on a timeout every thirty days. I would log in make a days worth of posts and get my five easy as pie because I AM a vulgarian. But that said, I still know the difference between being vulgar and using words that have been used to hurt people.
I saw Carlin in the 70's deliver the 7 words and if I recall the primary joke about the C word was something along the lines of how women will use some words like fuck and shit but p(iss) and c(you know what word it is) are off-limits. Which is to say he did not go on about having a right to use the C word. He merely observed it was a word you can not say on television and that most women did not like or use.
Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)Words...
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)...
Whiskeytide
(4,461 posts)Sorry.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Still, after giving up the whiskey, it's one of the few habits I have left.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)Citation: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12594348#post1 , DU_LexisNexis_cite_Skinner_12122013, et seq.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)listen to her point to the extent of becoming abrasive then taking it to pm to to show his true color of a bottom feeding scum.
so, before lecturing a group of people, maybe you ought to know what happened.
after the fact of him going to pm, discussion about a women scorned ensued.
not that i am trashing your Op. you put a lot of time and thought into it.
Whiskeytide
(4,461 posts)I did see most of it. And I saw the PM posted. Wow. It was just an example and I probably should have used another one - but my powers of recall are not what they use to be, so I took a short cut.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)eppur_se_muova
(36,260 posts)Iffect = something which might happen "if".
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)The trash this thread option works just as well to remove the offender from your view.
Righteous rant
dgauss
(882 posts)Intent vs effect are the arguments that can't seem to be reconciled.
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)Among other things, it aptly describes fans of right wing media who blindly and unquestioningly let Rush Limbaugh and friends punk them into thinking and doing what conservative billionaires want them to.
I posted a link to my YouTube video "Beck's (B-word)s, Rush's Robots and Fox's Fools" here on Democratic Underground. It was taken down by jurors who apparently weren't aware of the new definition (it's only been in use for 20 years or so), and were ignorant of the fact that Glenn Beck's audience is nearly all male.
The video represented about 300 hours of anti-Republican effort.