Cheering and approving of the death of any person,

[madaboutharry]

civilian or soldier, on either side of a conflict is shameful. It shows the lack of humanity of the person who does it. DU can get ugly, but not like I have seen today.

This is not specific to I/P, it is a global comment.

[G_j]

1. ---

Weapons are the tools of violence;
all decent men detest them.

Weapons are the tools of fear;
a decent man will avoid them
except in the direst necessity
and, if compelled, will use them
only with the utmost restraint.
Peace is his highest value.
If the peace has been shattered,
how can he be content?
His enemies are not demons,
but human beings like himself.
He doesn't wish them personal harm.
Nor does he rejoice in victory.
How could he rejoice in victory
and delight in the slaughter of men?

He enters a battle gravely,
with sorrow and with great compassion,
as if he were attending a funeral.

Lao Tzu (c.604 - 531 B.C.)

[RobertEarl]

2. What does one feast on?

A small boy is listening to his grandfather who says, "A fight is going on inside me. It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil. He is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. The other is good. He is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. This same fight is going on inside you and inside every other person, too."

The boy asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

His grandfather replied, "The one that is fed."

[MoonRiver]

9. Beautiful and exactly what I believe.

Thank you.

[malaise]

15. And the so called leaders of our planet are feeding hate, fear

and division.

[LuvNewcastle]

30. Exactly, which is why I never call them leaders, except sarcastically.

I'll call them representatives, but most of them are even poor excuses for that. I have no need for a leader, anyway, so it really grates on me when people call them that, and it especially raises my hackles when they call themselves that.

[defacto7]

24. ^^^^^^^

beautiful.. so true.

[RufusTFirefly]

26. Wonderful fable! Thanks for posting!

[zeemike]

34. Great fable.

Just packed with truth,

[Brigid]

41. Yep, an old Cherokee story, I believe.

[CrispyQ]

3. I'm popping a bottle of champagne they day Rush Limbaugh dies & I'm gonna dance all night. -nt

[hlthe2b]

7. Limbaugh and Cheney--- both would make such a commitment to not "dishonoring" the dead....

damn near impossible.

That said, I do agree with the OP.

[Martin Eden]

8. I'll be sad when Dick Cheney dies ...

... unless he dies in prison.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

13. I have quoted this before, but it goes well here

When Margaret Thatcher died, what went through my mind was a poem by Hilaire Belloc:

Here richly, with ridiculous display,
The Politician's corpse was laid away.
While all of his acquaintance sneered and slanged
I wept: for I had longed to see him hanged.

I shall say the same when Cheney dies.

[Martin Eden]

25. Hadn't seen that before; thanks. Here's something of mine:

I wrote this poem for what I wanted to say to Bush when he left office, and it applies to Cheney as well:


I'd tell you to go fuck yourself
But that is much too kind
Because if you could perform that feat
You'd take pleasure in your behind

I'd like to say eat shit and die
But you deserve much more
You should suffer all the grief and pain
Of your misbegotten war

Though I can never make you feel
Or think, or understand
I'll take solace when you hear your name
Cursed throughout the land

From inside a lonely prison cell
Dark and bare and cold
Where every day you pay for your crimes
Until you're sick, heartbroken, and old

The when you finally leave the earth
You fucked over oh so well
If there is a God and afterlife
You're going straight to hell.

[LuvNewcastle]

32. That's good!

[Arugula Latte]

45. I had these lyrics in my head ...

from the English Beat's song about Thatcher, "Stand Down Margaret"

I said I see no joy, I see only sorrow
I see no chance of your bright new tomorrow

So stand down Margaret, stand down please, stand down
I say stand down Margaret, stand down please, stand down

I sometimes wonder if I'll ever get the chance
Just to sing to my children in a holiday jam
Our lives seem petty in your cold gray hands
Would you give a second thought, would you ever give a damn?

I doubt it
Stand down Margaret
Everybody shout it
Stand down Margaret

[madokie]

53. Yup I want to see

his sorry ass in the dock at the Hague for war crimes and crimes against humanity

[geek tragedy]

12. Dick Cheney is technically undead, so

maybe we get a waiver for him.

[snooper2]

59. don't forget babs bush...that piece of work ---

[villager]

4. Exactly. The litmus test is "Fuck every cause that ends in murder and children crying,"

as espoused by the late Iain Banks.

Many here at the "Underground" spectacularly fail that test.

[4now]

5. Cheering the death and suffering of others is disgusting.

It makes me sick when I see what some people think is acceptable behavior.

[billhicks76]

31. RawStory

RawStory has an article simply mind blowing. It shows Israelis with their kids bring folding chairs, blankets and picnic baskets right up to the border to cheer on the bombing and massacres like it was 4th of July or a drive in movie. They are well dressed and high fiving while enjoying snacks and beverages. I thought they were in danger from rockets? Ever notice we see Israeli videos of shock and awe but never these rudimentary rockets from Palestine? And when they did years ago it was always stock footage. We never see injury or death from these little rockets...maybe one burnt sidewalk. But we see dead Palestinian babies and dismembered civilians daily if we look through the news sources. These are our tax dollars. I like this cartoon from the 80s (about El Salvador)...it shows a US General with a skull on his cap posing as an evil waiter with a plate of dismembered civilians in his hand. He says,"How Can You Say You Didnt Order This...You Paid For It!". Well it seems appropriate to the American people once again...we are paying for so much murder these days in so many countries. You better believe in forgiveness if you're a religious person.

[4now]

46. "How Can You Say You Didnt Order This...You Paid For It!"

This is sadly so very true.

[RobertEarl]

47. Forgiveness

I think that time is well passed, Bill.

Like you bring up, it's all lies. No one has really been hurt by the fireworks from Gaza, but 500 in Gaza are now dead. There will be no forgiveness for this crime.

[billhicks76]

48. And We Are Too Blame

Because we allow our corporate puppet government to do this in our name. People feel powerless here as the economic elite tighten the screws on everyday people but there's coming a point where people could snap.

[RobertEarl]

49. Karma is. Karma will be. n/t

[Iggo]

6. When Dick Cheney bites the shit, I'm gonna cheer loud enough to piss off the neighbors.

And it'll be because of HIS lack of humanity, not mine.

The world will be a better place without him, and I'll celebrate his passing joyously and raucously.

[2pooped2pop]

10. same here but I'd include Koch bros

Addelson, Murdoch. Probably misspelled, but I can't help but think the world would be one step closer to right when these men go.

[geek tragedy]

11. I was glad when bin laden got what

he had coming. But that's an exception to the rule.

[billhicks76]

33. Really? You're Gonna Go There?

You're really going to try and weave Bin Ladens name into this discussion. That's not even the usual subliminal tactic. You going to start off handedly mention mushroom clouds again? Our leaders kill more than anyone. Our corporations hire mercenaries to kill peasants in South America everyday to increase profits. Get used to it. The evil is in your own house start getting that in order first. Bin Laden? Unbelievable.

[geek tragedy]

39. Huh? People were talking about how they'd react when

Cheney and Limbaugh die, figured bin laden would fit right in there. Point being that in extreme cases there will be celebrations.

[Lurks Often]

14. I think there are exceptions to that

When North Korea's leader Kim Jong-un dies, it will be a good day. There are people in this world who are so vile and monstrous, that the world is a better place when they die.

[CTyankee]

17. of course. no one mourns hitler's suicide and subsequent body burning...

ugh...we could only wish he would have been taken out sooner...

[RufusTFirefly]

21. "Cheering" is not the same as "not mourning"

I think some people are making some pretty big logical leaps here.

The former is actively celebrating the death of another human being. I personally find this barbaric.
The latter means failing to lament the passing of someone. We do this all the time.

[CTyankee]

23. If I had had the chance, I would have cheered Hitler's suicide...

or at least given a sigh of relief that he was not longer on earth to wreak death and destruction on so many people...his destruction of European Jewry was hideous...I would have preferred having him killed much earlier...it would have been fine with me...sparing the needless murder of so many people...

[LuvNewcastle]

36. I've always said that if we can be sad when a good person dies,

we can be happy when a bad person does. And damn my black soul, I'll always believe that.

[zeemike]

40. I would not have cheered at all...but not morned it either.

But I would not cheer because he escaped punishment...at least in this world...and he should have been punished...by IMO spending the rest of his life in jail so that he had the opportunity to repent of what he did before his death...

Life is not a sporting event where we cheer when our opponent is downed...I agree with the ones who say it is a disgrace to our humanity that we do.

[Iggo]

61. I will actively celebrate the death of Dick Cheney.

[RufusTFirefly]

63. Good for you. As for me, I refuse to celebrate anyone's demise. n/t

[Iggo]

64. Good for you, too.

Love,

Iggo the Barbarian.

[MADem]

52. Absolutely, and Claus Philipp Maria, Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg is remembered as a German HERO

today.

Of course, when he was trying to assassinate Hitler when the Nazis were running the show, he was an enemy of the state.

[davidpdx]

35. When Kim Jong-il died I sure as hell celebrated

He is a mass-murder and if he had ever been arrested I'm sure he would have been charged with and convicted of crimes against humanity. I live in South Korea about 26 km from the boarder. I've heard the stories of North Korean refugees and their word speak volumes about what him and his family have done.

The next three on my list:

Dick Cheney
Anthony Scalia
George HW Bush

[RufusTFirefly]

16. I agree 100 percent. No exceptions! n/t

[EEO]

18. I disagree. The death of someone is not always a sad thing.

And I am talking about everything from assisted suicide to the death of grossly unethical people like Dick Cheney (who I know is still with us), Jerry Fallwell, Adolf Hitler, and so on and so forth (not that I am saying they are on the same level, these are just examples). The damage one does to the society around them can make their passing a cheerful moment and one to approve of. I see such passings as the end of the damage these people can do to those around them, though systems they left behind may still need to be challenged and dismantled.

[tclambert]

19. No exceptions for Hitler or Bin Laden or Tywin Lannister?

C'mon.

[BainsBane]

51. Tywin Lannister exception

I was cheering that one on. Of course, he's not a real person.

[tclambert]

55. He's based on real people, like Richard III, or the Borgias.

And some of the people Machiavelli wrote about. Agathocles of Sicily and Oliverotto da Fermo were mentioned in Machiavelli, bad men who murdered their way to high office. George R.R.R.R. Martin says he based the Red Wedding on the The Black Dinner of 1440, when King James II of Scotland slaughtered the 6th Earl of Douglas and his clan chiefs after a formal feast.

That was not the only horrible dinner in history. Everybody's heard of Tantalus, and his famous punishment. The crime that earned him that punishment was he killed his own son, cooked him, and served him to the gods. His grandson, Atreus, killed his brother's sons and served them to their own father, then taunted him after he ate some of their flesh. Nice family, the House of Atreus. He had a son named Agamemnon who sacrificed his own daughter so his fleet could have the favorable winds they needed to sail to Troy and start a war to get his brother's wife back. When he came home, his wife and her lover murdered him. Then her own son, Orestes, murdered her. And much later, a guy in my home town opened a diner named the "Orestes Family Restaurant." (I had the chicken fingers.)

[BainsBane]

58. I stayed in Mycenae for a week or two

Where Agamemnon and the rest of his family is buried, back when I was in my early 20s. We got a job picking oranges . My efforts at establishing solidarity among the migrant workers that day were not successful, so we did not get paid in advanced and the farmer ended up only paying half of what he had promised. We also got to pick oranges laced with DDT. You may not realize it, but orange bushes have a lot of thorns. The options were to wear rubber gloves and protect the hands, yet be incredibly hot, or take them off, have one's hands cut by the thorns and the wounds filled with DDT. It wasn't fun and I wasn't broke enough to do it for a second day. Nor was I broke enough to sleep in Agamemnon's tombs, as many others did. So that's my exposure to that particular Greek royal family.

[sarge43]

20. I won't cheer anyone's death, but

there are a few creatures whose passing will make me smile.

[AtomicKitten]

22. Party at my house when Cheney kicks the bucket.

[davidpdx]

38. I'll bring the soju

We have to have schnapps, Kahlua, and a good wine selection.

[Orsino]

62. I'll only cheer if he confesses his crimes...

...and begins to atone.

[JEFF9K]

27. Better to err on the side of ugly comments ...

... than censorship.

[defacto7]

28. Death is death...

I can't think in terms of cheering death.... it's cheering nothing. What a waste of time and a fixation on arrogance.

I can only cheer lives. I cheer lives that make humanity better or jeer the incivilities that kill us. There's no room for cheering nothingness.

If a person who is evil in their acts without remorse dies, they disappear into nothing and I forget them.

[madaboutharry]

29. Some people missed my point entirely.

I was talking about civilians and drafted soldiers caught in war. I wasn't talking about the Hitlers of the world.

[davidpdx]

37. I see

I totally agree with you in that case

[WinkyDink]

42. In that case, why were you posting at all? Who here was "cheering" either (now-specific) victims?

Your use of the phrase "any person" is what was misleading, FYI.

[snooper2]

60. "any person" you put...you could always delete your OP and start over! redo!

[WillowTree]

44. I agree, but too many here and elsewhere don't. Sad.

[BainsBane]

50. I agree. I also saw it last week

In a thread about Cheney. As odious as the man is, that just isn't right.

[Cha]

54. It brings anyone who does this down to

their fucking level. mahalo madaboutharry.

[Puzzledtraveller]

56. I agree.

I am so greatful that I have moved past and evolved to this understanding.

[muriel_volestrangler]

57. Interesting to see this thread right next to this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025275013

Perhaps it's not a universal feeling?

Oh, I see you excluded him in #29. In which case, I agree with #42.

[Dreamer Tatum]

65. It's the product of feeble, simple minds. nt