Those of you who have picked a side on the Palestine/Israel conflict, how did you get there?

[AngryAmish]

This is a really controversial topic and if belongs in I/P delete away...

By and large I support Israel generally and specifically in this war/conflict. I am not Jewish. But I am American and they have been allied with the US my entire life. Also, I am generally unpersuaded by stolen land complaints. Unless Rome is looking to give back land to the Etruscans or Turks give up cities to Greeks, if you are there you get to keep it. Until you can't.

How did you pick a side, if you have?

[NutmegYankee]

2. Partly Jewish family.

Though I think the right wing Likud party policies towards Palestinians are criminal. So many innocent people dead and it'll happen again as the fanatics stoke the anger through mistreatment.

[broiles]

11. +1

[Turbineguy]

3. By reading Robert Fisk's book

Pity the Nation. About how Arafat and his boys fucked up Lebanon.

It's a pity ordinary Palestinians who just want to get on with their lives are saddled with these terrorist groups.

[LittleBlue]

4. I always side with the oppressed against the oppressor.

It's no different, to me, than siding with the black South Africans during Apartheid.

[Uncle Joe]

5. Preponderance of evidence, history, the testimony of Holocaust survivor (s), common sense and logic

Netanyahu reminds me too much of George W. Bush to boot.

Having said that, I believe we do Israel no favors by giving blind support, we only encourage bad leaders for both sides.

Thanks for the thread, AngryAmish

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. I'm with you on this one, my dear Uncle Joe...

It's been a gradual process for me. My views have evolved as I have become more aware of the factors you mention in your post.

[Uncle Joe]

10. My dear, CaliforniaPeggy.

Peace to you.

[politicman]

7. heres my reasoning.

I morally only had one option to support and that was the Palestinian side.

Look at the facts:

Israeli crimes.

1) Israel gets established using mostly European Jews on land that belonged to Palestinians.
2) Israel has one of the strongest armies in the world whilst the Palestinians have at best only rudimentary rockets.
3) Israel has for decades and still continues to periodically demolish Palestinian homes and orchids and build settlements in their places.
4) Israel blockades Gaza and controls anything that enters or leaves, giving it the ability to impoverish the Palestinian people when ever it feels like it.
5) Israel uses the most technologically advanced weaponry to target hospitals, schools, children and civilians and then tries to place the blame on Hamas under the pre-text that Hamas policies is responsible for forcing Israel to conduct its war crimes.
6) Israel steals and confiscates many of the natural resources the Palestinians still have left.
7) Israel continually carries out mass punishment of the Palestinian people even though a crime could have been committed by only one person.
8) Israel refuses to let the Palestinians declare their own country, something which Israel did itself at one point in the past.
9) etc, etc, etc,




Palestinian crimes

1) Palestinians sometime send suicide bombers and lob rudimentary rockets at Israel in response to all the above Israeli crimes and more that I didnt hightlight.
2) Palestinians target Israeli civilians because they are not allowed the militray capability to fairly fight against the Israeli army for all the above crimes.
3) Palestinians want the right of return for many Palestinian refugees forced to leave their land, something which is their right under international law.
4) Palestinians want to determine their own future, have their own country and their own freedom to allow or diaslllow what they see fit into their country, not have an outside force control their livelyhoods.
5) Palestinians will not recognise Israel as a JEWISH state, they have come to accept the idea of Israel existing on their land yet wont accept that to give Israel the legitmacy to discriminate against anyone who is not Jewish by accpeting it as a JEWISH state.


(I went through the above points and my morals could only allow me to accept one position which to support, and it was not hard at all, as one side wants to oppress 1.8 million Palestinians and then use their resistance as a reason to slaughter them, and the other side is asking to have their freedom and rights and using the only way they are able to get attention, which is attack Israeli civilians (which is still bad but they have no other option).

(Palestinians have tried the peaceful way and the Israeli's take that opportunity to build more settlements and oppress the Palestinians even more while the world turns its gaze to the next thing that catches it eye. The Israelis are never made to follow through on promises or deals once the guns have gone silent.

[MohRokTah]

8. I've picked a side.

Hamas are bastards and the Israeli government are brutal fuckers.

I'll just stand here on the sidelines and shake my head at the stupidity of both sides.

Sadly, it's the innocents that get between these two STUPID SIDES that get killed.

I'm 51, and this has been breaking news my entire life.

[4now]

9. Paying Israel to murder civilian children just kind of got to me.

It makes it seem like I am responsible for a lot of death if I paid for it.

[anti partisan]

12. Peace is always an easy side (nt)

[alarimer]

13. I listen to something other than mainstream media.

Like Democracy Now, which usually has very good coverage of the side of thing you almost never hear.

[bigwillq]

14. I'm sick of both sides.

The USA just needs to stay out of it. They've been fighting for years, and will probably continue to fight for years to come. Keep our money, resources, manpower, etc., out of it.

[riverwalker]

15. took an innocent tour

knew nothing about the situation. Had a friend who asked me to go with her on a tour given by a "peace group" I thought sure, sounds benign, and I wanted to travel. It turned out to be a very pro Zionist fundie christian group. (It was long, long ago and I was very politically naïve) Anyway we toured all of Israel, overnite in a Kibbutz, West Bank, Gaza, all the while listening to obvious propaganda (really, really awful John Hagee kind of crap). I started asking too many questions and challenging them until they all viewed me as an enemy by the end of the tour and would barely speak to me. In the middle of the trip my friend and I left the group and took a side trip, on a bus from Jerusalem across the Sinai desert, across the Suez Canal to Cairo (because I wanted to see the Pyramids) then back the same way. When we rejoined them, they were so disappointed when I said I loved the people we met in Egypt. Anyway, it really, really opened my eyes. The injustice was so obvious and clear to me. I would get away from the group whenever I could and explore on my own in East Jerusalem (I was very brave when I was young) I still remember conversations with shop keepers. Once walking in West Jerusalem, my friend and I began to argue because I didn't like all the crap we were being fed and I shouted "BUT I AM NOT A ZIONIST!" Oh boy, did people look. When I got back (it was before Internet) I wrote to Amnesty International and asked them to let me do what I could.

[Rex]

16. No side.

This is a religious issue and a geography issue. Only peace will fix the problem in the ME, hopefully secular heads will find their way into power and stop the insanity on both side.

IMO there is no logic in religion and basing wars on it is sheer madness.

[RobertEarl]

17. I am on the winner's side. Isn't everyone?

Unfortunately there will be no winner.

Sure, one side will kill a thousand people, destroy hospitals and infrastructure and make life miserable for a million people. But they will still be losers.

I got to this position by reading world history.

Kerry understands there are no winners and is trying to bring Peace. But you look around dU and you see that even here, amongst some of the most educated people on the planet, way too many think that war is a winning proposition, and that this war needs all the support they can give it.

Yep, instead of just saying that they hope Kerry and Obama win by bringing peace, they go on and on about why this war needs to keep going. They stand in opposition to Obama.

I have never been more saddened by seeing what is allowed on dU than what I have been reading here recently.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

18. Primarily from listening to Jews.

I grew up during a time that included Munich and hijackings. What I had heard about Israel, like the majority of Americans, had been solely from a pro-Zionist/anti-Palestinian narrative. Vanessa Redgrave's speech at the Oscars was the very first time I had heard a countering view.

Once the Internet was available, I found there was not one monolithic Jewish viewpoint on the situation with the Palestinians. I discovered Israeli Jewish Peace groups and explored their experiences, their take on the history/wisdom of Zionism, and their desire to bring Justice for all in the region. I have also relied on people who I have personally met over any years -- both Zionists and non-Zionists. My current roommate had lived in Israel for 20+ years and he has offered great insight to what it means to live there. Since he is a bi-racial, American Jew he has a unique and enlightening take on the Palestinian/Israel situation.

The side I have picked is that of Justice. I do not believe in Zionism. After much consideration, I have come to support a single, democratic, secular State where freedom of religion is respected and all have equal rights. I am also entertaining the notion of Jerusalem that is overseen by some sort of independent body.

[phylny]

19. I cannot pick a side.

I worked with a family from Palestine. The husband told me about how his family lost everything to Israel in Palestine, and it was heartbreaking.

Both sides are disgusting.