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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWho does this to fellow human beings?
The bombs that hit these streets in the time between the Observer's two visits were visible, and sometimes audible, across the city as huge explosions sent up eruptions of grey smoke into the sky.
What happened here in Beit Hanoun, and in other neighbourhoods of Gaza hardest hit by the Israeli assault, will inevitably demand an explanation: whether the extremity of violence unleashed in these residential areas in recent days was proportionate, or if the destruction amounts to a war crime.
Those are questions for the days ahead. On Saturday, however, in the midst of a 12-hour humanitarian ceasefire, the concerns were more immediate ones, as thousands of Palestinian residents flocked back to their ruined neighbourhoods to see what remained.
As they came on foot and in cars, they were accompanied by fire engines, bulldozers and ambulances of the Red Crescent, whose crews by mid-afternoon had recovered 85 bodies, many of them partially decomposed, buried under the rubble of Gaza's most damaged neighbourhoods. Officials said the death toll among Palestinians had passed 1,000.
In some places visited by the Observer whole blocks had been flattened, dozens of buildings at a time reduced to a moonscape from which the smell of death at times wafted. We came across Mohammad Shaweish at the entrance to Beit Hanoun, sitting on a cane chair in a pink ground-floor room that had been ripped open to the street, an electricity pylon lying black and smouldering outside where it had been felled. His family occupied four homes on this corner, all gutted by the air strike that ripped off the outside walls.
---------------------
Don't expect them to be loving those who did this to them.
stranger81
(2,345 posts)They simply irrationally hate and want to kill Jews. Nothing to do with living circumstances over the last 70 years. Nothing at all.
malaise
(268,701 posts)and their land stolen. They would never fight back - why would they?
When you control the message, it's easy to distort reality.
Reminds of Cheney et al expecting to be greeted with garlands of flowers for illegally invading and bombing the shit out of Iraq.
These people are fugging crazy.
stranger81
(2,345 posts)malaise
(268,701 posts)hubris, blind indifference or both.
stranger81
(2,345 posts)On the other hand, many ostensibly thinking people -- including many here at DU -- clearly DO believe this bullshit.
How they manage to navigate the world with their heads so far up their asses is beyond me.
Skittles
(153,113 posts)Califa
(27 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)it is disgusting.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)We have seen it.
Warpy
(111,145 posts)and a lot of people are finally starting to ask questions about this particular war to rebuild support for the Likud party.
malaise
(268,701 posts)Give thanks for the internet - we can see for ourselves. Additionally there are more than a few journalists are no longer embedded. and even on the corporate media there are a fwe who refuse to push the established meme.
Time to oust all these RW lunatics across the planet.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)And telegenic women wailing for their telegenically dismembered young ones.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)malaise
(268,701 posts)It paralleled Nazi comments.
Typical war criminal
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)calling the Palestinian children "little snakes."
malaise
(268,701 posts)or little rats - although both are as offensive.
I'm waiting for a comment from Obama - he has children,
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)and then she tried to walk it back and blame the press for her words. Its hard when national policy becomes killing children to rationalize language that is no longer hyperbole.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/10/knesset-member-walks-back-on-facebook-post-calling-palestinian-kids-little-snakes.html
malaise
(268,701 posts)for her offensive comments.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)little snakes'. Did someone take control of her FB account? The press SHOULD publish these crimes. And it is a crime to recommend the total annihilation of an ethnic group, especially when you are an elected official with the ability to help make it happen.
Has she been thrown out of office yet? If not, then she spoke for the Israeli Government.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)He's deputy speaker of the knesset. This makes him Israel's John Boehner.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Which is a dessert, so how could they survive there?
It would be a refugee crisis for the rest of the world.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)used at the Wannsee conference, suburb of Berlin, 1942, Ahem!!!!!!!!
a2liberal
(1,524 posts)whathehell
(29,034 posts)saying "Two for One". I'm guessing she owns one.
What scum.
Uncle Joe
(58,284 posts)unanimous carte-blanche approval.
However I believe this tune will be playing for a long time before that occurs.
I also believe that vote helped undermine any diplomatic authority by Kerry to work out a cease fire or peace agreement.
malaise
(268,701 posts)are tres quiet.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)children are being shredded by IDF artillery.
That guy is as sick as Bush II.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)malaise
(268,701 posts)You know I an a genuine Tom Paine fan .
Bet you didn't know he played cricket
brer cat
(24,523 posts)That is probably why we keep you around here...along with your severe weather alerts.
Cricket is by no means 'obscure information'. Cricket is life
Jeff Murdoch
(168 posts)malaise
(268,701 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)the term itself reeks of Godless Communism.
Why not "Individualwealth?"
Jeff Murdoch
(168 posts)The common wealth DID belong to an individual.
Whoever was perched on the British throne.
malaise
(268,701 posts)Nothing common about it and no commoners among the wealthy
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)H2O Man
(73,506 posts)Odd how so many create god in their own image.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)paleotn
(17,884 posts)...he's as spot on today as he was back then.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Most religions demand that people serve the religion.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Police and paramedics inspect the scene after a suicide bomber blew himself up on a rush-hour bus near the Jerusalem neighborhood of Gilo during the Second Intifada, on June 18, 2002
malaise
(268,701 posts)and we both know that
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Not even a pretense of self-defense there.
I despise Netanyahu and think he is trash.
Your posts are totally one-sided.
malaise
(268,701 posts)for the past few years.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)On Monday Shaked quoted this on her Facebook page: "Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."
"They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists," said Shaked. Standing behind the operations on Gaza, "they are all our enemies and their blood should be on our hands. This also applies to the mothers of the dead terrorists," Shaked added.
Read more: http://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/14/mothers-of-all-palestinians-should-also-be-killed-says-israeli-politician
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)So we can't dismiss that as tiny..but I know what you mean, and agree with your
larger point.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)I hate Netanyahu with a passion. Doesn't mean I don't hate Hamas also.
Israelis and people of Gaza have made incredibly poor choices in their leaders.
Both are are paying for it, albeit in very different ways.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)The Israelis have for a long time considered *all* Palestinians as terrorists, even if many if not most Palestinians don't want violence and just want to go on with their lives. Now the Israelis are feeling labeled by what Netanyahu's *terroristic* bunch are doing themselves.
Now, the hate for what the Israelis have done to push Palestinians over the years have probably enabled the terrorists in earlier times as a way to respond to what the Israelis did to Palestinians in pushing them out of their homes and oppressing them in occupied lands. Likewise the Israelis have had their fear of terrorism exploited in to voting in nut balls like Netanyahu that are carrying out more extremist methodologies than they might personally endorse too. Somehow in general the hate on both sides needs to stop as the cancer that it is. There needs to be some leadership on both sides that preach forgiveness, and look at practical ways to enable those that want to have each side live amongst each other in a time of healing.
WE still haven't got rid of the remnants of attitudes of racism, etc. from earlier times when slavery was legal, but setting a framework for freedom for all, etc. has made it so each successive generation can put some of that painful past more behind them and heal over time.
The U.S. NEEDS to find those that would enable healing and give those groups more power on either side of this conflict, NOT give those more power that will provide more bucks to our defense industry that we have been doing for so many years now that have made this conflict so much worse and alienate the world against us too now. THAT is some healing we really need RIGHT NOW!
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)to drive out all the Palestinians.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html
Despite the steady arrival in Palestine of Jewish colonists after 1882, it is important to realize that not until the few weeks immediately preceding the establishment of Israel in the spring of 1948 was there ever anything other than a huge Arab majority. For example, the Jewish population in 1931 was 174,606 against a total of 1,033,314. Edward Said, The Question of Palestine.
The aim of the [Jewish National] Fund was to redeem the land of Palestine as the inalienable possession of the Jewish people....As early as 1891, Zionist leader Ahad Haam wrote that the Arabs understood very well what we were doing and what we were aiming at...[Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, stated] We shall try to spirit the penniless [Arab] population across the border by procuring employment for it in transit countries, while denying it employment in our own country... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly...At various locations in northern Palestine Arab farmers refused to move from land the Fund purchased from absentee owners, and the Turkish authorities, at the Funds request, evicted them...
Before the 20th century, most Jews in Palestine belonged to old Yishuv, or community, that had settled more for religious than for political reasons. There was little if any conflict between them and the Arab population. Tensions began after the first Zionist settlers arrived in the 1880s...when [they] purchased land from absentee Arab owners, leading to dispossession of the peasants who had cultivated it. Don Peretz, The Arab-Israeli Dispute.
Serfs they (the Jews) were in the lands of the Diaspora, and suddenly they find themselves in freedom [in Palestine]; and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause, and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination. Zionist writer Ahad Haam, quoted in Sami Hadawi, Bitter Harvest.
much, much more at the link.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)And the more that is remembered... By some that gives them more justification in hating the others that have traditionally hated and fought with them and their ancestors over those centuries.
Someone at some point needs to say "STOP! Let's live for today!". Try to put aside those painful memories, even if some of them are fresh and affected you even yesterday. You need to look at your innocent children who want happiness and a decent life, and hopefully can look in the eyes of another group of children on the other side that want the same thing and aren't yet troubled by knowing the history of this conflict. Both sides need to look at the next generation in such a way that has them look to not continue to fight the fights of their ancestors, but to move towards a non-violent effort to create a world for that new generation to have the better lives that their innocent eyes want and deserve, and not have them crushed by the bombs that are already killing and maiming them today now and may pollute another generation and set off any kind of peace by another generation instead of something within the current generation's hands to achieve.
It IS a tough challenge for both sides, but until they embrace it and work on it, it will doom these kids, and their kids, and their kids, etc. to more generational violence and doom until the day they wipe each other out with more weapons technology, etc. than they can handle.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Lady welds some power HERVEPA, if she is a tiny percentage why is her voice being carried so loudly?
lark
(23,061 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,365 posts)In both, innocents are the tragic victims.
But one represents the act of a radical individual or group, not a State.
The other is performed by a State with all of the force and power it can muster.
The second is thus a disproportionate response that amounts to deliberate collective punishment of an entire population. As such, it is the very definition of a war crime.
And the US supplied many of the weapons to enable the second.
The world sees both quite clearly, I'm afraid, even if many in the US do not want to.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)You pull an event from 2002 to justify the murder of 1000 people now.
It must be sad being as morally empty as you are.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)It must be tough trying to defend the morally indefensible.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Plenty of blame to go around on both sides, but I just see one side reflected here.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)No. It focuses on finding the criminals responsible.
In this case Israel has decided that finding those responsible is just too hard, so its going to just start destroying Gaza until it feels better.
It's textbook collective punishment, which violates international law. Irrefutable war crime.
hack89
(39,171 posts)People launching rockets at Israel and building infiltration tunnels? Damn, the solution was staring us in the face all along.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)You do realize Israeli police haven't step foot in Gaza for years. They have their own police force- many of whom moon light as rocket shooters.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Our use of drones trying to get Al Qaeda in Yemen, for instance.
Or in fact you'd be OK with bombing Yemen if we think there are Al Qaeda operatives there? Don't the Yemeni civilians have the same duties to stop the terrorists near them?
hack89
(39,171 posts)that is a good way to get killed. I expect the government of that region to stop the terrorists. Which of course is the problem with Gaza - the government are the terrorists
treestar
(82,383 posts)And so it would be OK to bomb the civilians since they are failing, then?
For consistency I would take it you are never one to condemn US drone attacks there. That bridal party that got killed deserved it as their government failed to stop Al Qaeda is what I'd assume you would have to believe.
hack89
(39,171 posts)and frequently operate in coordination with US forces. In principle I support drone attacks. I condemn errors that kill innocents.
treestar
(82,383 posts)The ordinary people have a duty to stop Hamas or be killed.
Meanwhile they do nothing to stop the settlements on Palestinian land and restrict Palestinians in their land - the Israeli only roads they had a while back, for instance.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And the one from malaise is maybe twelve hours old.
Uncle Joe
(58,284 posts)seveneyes
(4,631 posts)As if that was the only suicide bombing against innocents.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)No one has forgotten anything, except you have misplaced you moral center.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Some lives are just worth more than others. Once you realize that, all sorts of things become justifiable.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)constantly.
Or accuse you of supporting the other - but since the Israeli side is stronger they are more often the ones claiming you must support Hamas or their killing.
The Israeli side will claim some sort of moral superiority - the right to "exist," etc. as if they weren't a created and propped up state.
When we get tired of supporting them, it will then become apparent whether or not they really have the military power to exist. And then eat up more land if they do.
Logical
(22,457 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)in the area now (Richard Engel, I think) said he spoke to a Palestinean woman who said that the area she lived in was so obliterated that people couldn't even identify the locations of their homes. This is a massacre, and beyond that, it is the intentional annihilation of peoples' homes and livelihoods. It is beyond appalling, but horrific.
malaise
(268,701 posts)This is a massacre, and beyond that, it is the intentional annihilation of peoples' homes and livelihoods. It is beyond appalling, but horrific.
My question is why does the US government continue to arm these people? Why support this madness?
The place looks like it was hit by a tornado, volcano or tsunami. Even a hurricane does not destroy a place like this. This has got to be stopped.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Jeff Murdoch
(168 posts)around the world.
And I would say that we have done more than our fair share of it.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)Sheesh...that ends it.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The missiles were quiet until Netanyahu broke the ceasefire. He bombed Gaza to kill several Hamas members in retaliation for the murder of the three young men in the West Bank. That bombing broke the long standing cease fire.
Now we know that contrary to his public war-mongering, Netanyahu was told that the Hamas leadership was not involved. Netanyahu started this slaughter for his usual criminal reasons.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Were not even perpetrated by Hamas, it was rogue nuts. The rocket attacks only came AFTER an Israeli reprisal campaign.
Not that a Likudnik would appreciate the order of events in their quest to disguise the evil of the Israeli far right.
malaise
(268,701 posts)They don't want the truth.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)And I despise Netanyahu, and am not a Likudnik.
Check this out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014
stranger81
(2,345 posts)They aren't firing those rockets just because they have nothing better to do.
No justice, no peace.
malaise
(268,701 posts)three Jewish young men.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)At least it's a lie to those who don't want to see the truth.
malaise
(268,701 posts)LIES. Remember Hamas is killing the people of Gaza not Israel.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Your position is flat out wrong and makes you either painfully misinformed or a bloody mouthed Likud supporter.
paleotn
(17,884 posts)...in Gaza and the theft of West Bank land and the rockets might stop. If anyone should know better, it's the damn Israelis.
malaise
(268,701 posts)That's it right there
Warpy
(111,145 posts)There are so many parallels with the Warsaw Ghetto it's uncanny, almost like Netanyahu had used it as a blueprint for how to treat Arabs.
You wonder what it's going to take to strip the blinders of some folks.
treestar
(82,383 posts)which conveys the obvious intention to take all the land.
I don't know why they won't just admit it. Maybe they are afraid of losing US support.
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)Under international law :
Both Israel and Hamas have a legal and moral obligation to protect non-combatant lives , homes and infrastructure. Each is responsible for their own actions in this respect and neither party gets a free pass even if the other is behaving badly.
Looking at the pictures coming out of Gaza today, it's pretty clear that Israel has deliberately and systematically targeted civilian homes, businesses and infrastructure which is a crime. To have done so in response to Hamas rocket attacks, brings a further crime, that of collective punishment, into play. As an aside, in so far as crimes against humanity have a magnitude, this one is big, the scenes are utterly shocking.
It's legally and morally indefensible for Israel to persist with its bombardment of Gaza and she should desist immediately and unilaterally. Likewise, Hamas should, without prior conditions, stop firing rockets into Israel. Both need to be held to account.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I'm a little disappointed by the prevalence of this vile mentality on DU.
malaise
(268,701 posts)I find it fugging scary
n2doc
(47,953 posts)19 months where Israel continued their stranglehold on Gaza. Then when the Palestinians elected a government Israel didn't like, Netanyahu seized on a criminal act by individuals to attack all of Palestine and provoke a war. He lied and people died.
You might wish to question your assumptions.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Maybe you should stop all the crimes on your block before they happen. Control the acts of bad people in your neighborhood.
Collective punishment is what you are advocating.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)malaise
(268,701 posts)Little innocent fugging children.
Israelis are relentlessly killing children - let them defend that statement.
I can't take much more of this. Stop the killing of children.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)MM? Thanks.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Shows up on the right side of the Home Page for maximum views:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/index.php
I always add text from youtube when I do it so people will click on it.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)H2O Man
(73,506 posts)Tragic.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)countryjake
(8,554 posts)earthquake...a man-made earthquake.
The very end of that article...
Repeated shelling has inflicted a terrible reality on Palestinians as they try to salvage something from shattered homes and lives
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/26/gaza-pause-bombing-destruction-seen-israel
If there is something worse than the scenes of destruction, it is what is visible in the faces in Beit Hanoun and Shujai'iya. A man is led away down one street in Shujai'iya; staggering and blind with grief he his held up by two others. Women sit in the dust, crying.
We find 33-year-old Rifaat Suqr sitting outside his gutted house, a stunned look on his face. "It is like an earthquake hit this street," he says. "An earthquake."
Except that this was not an earthquake. This was the work of men.
Shujai'iya neighborhood today
from Mohammed Omer on Twitter
malaise
(268,701 posts)but imagine returning to your home to see this or worse, crawling out of the rubble and dealing with the smell of destroyed family members, pets and farm animals, let alone infrastructure.
Man to man is so unjust!!!
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)malaise
(268,701 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)up properly..will try again later.
Moostache
(9,895 posts)I really hope this is finally a tipping point for people to wake up and see that the Israelis - friends to the USA or not - have got to answer for conducting open warfare on civilian population centers as if this is a modern Dresden.
malaise
(268,701 posts)ir Iraq. Indeed war criminals are now emboldened. Might is right.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Fuck me, you don't see that much rubble in a Michael Bay film!
No. You can't do that and say "we're not targeting civilians." Bullshit. Bull fucking shit.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)malaise
(268,701 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)IMO they also target women and children.
Joe Magarac
(297 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)"So what" is too easy of a dismissal of such horrendous slaughter. Easy and flippant.
Joe Magarac
(297 posts)Demanded and got unconditional surrender (and no "peace" talks).
Result: Peace in that part of the world since 1945.
That's the lesson.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Actually, as you have not paid much attention apparently, no conflicts SINCE then have turned out anything like World War II. The Israel/Palestinian conflict has been going on SINCE then. Read and learn: http://972mag.com/how-can-you-possibly-oppose-this-war/93924
By Dahlia Scheindlin |Published July 19, 2014
How can you possibly oppose this war?
Someone asked me an innocent question: What is the position of Israelis who are against the war?
There are obvious answers.
First, this is a disproportionate war that harms huge numbers of civilians. The IDF is bombarding an area that it has already imprisoned by occupation from 1967, and then through suffocating border, movement, import and export control since 2007. Its residents have been stateless since 1948. It is attacking by air, land and sea, while Hamas attacks civilians in Israel through rockets and now through terrorist infiltration, at an increasingly frenzied pace.
Second, escalation breeds escalation. The south of Israel has not been at peace for a decade, but in this war, the whole country is under attack. And Protective Edge made things even worse for the south; all the Israel casualties so far as of today two civilian deaths, numerous wounded (including children) and one soldier killed have been in the south. Code Red warnings in Sderot all these years were awful, but death is worse. On a good day, there is suffering in Gaza; now the death and destruction there is indescribable.
- snip -
Fourth, the political and social consequences of the war will be a disaster in the short, medium and long term. In the short term, Hamas could easily become stronger, having become the defiant face of military resistance against Israel as diplomacy crumbles.
- snip -
Here is my extremely unpopular answer. There is no such thing as today devoid of yesterday and tomorrow; it is a fiction. The measures of the last ten days grow directly out of the measures in recent years. They will have devastating consequences in years to come. My criticism of this war is not I told you so, because some of us have warned for years that the status quo is illusory. Opposition to this war means finding a different response to predictable situations, so that there wont be a next time, and in two years Israelis wont have to say this is no time to analyze the past.
- snip -
In the long term, I shudder to think about the souls of people who lost two, three, or 18 family members to Israeli bombs. The sobbing father who begged his child to wake up because he had brought new toys; the woman who told her sister in England to stay away and live, so that at least one of the family members would survive. I see what national trauma has done to the Jewish people more than 60 years following their darkest moments. The manifestations of Palestinian suffering in future generations will be terrible.
The fifth and final reason to oppose the operation is that previous wars have failed. Operation Cast Lead in 2008/9 begat Pillar of Defense in 2012, begat Protective Edge in 2014. Hamas was not toppled, Gaza was not disarmed. The only thing changing is the accelerating pace of the wars.
MORE AT LINK
But, yeah, blowing up civilians and kids? World War II!
malaise
(268,701 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)paleotn
(17,884 posts)....some bomb on!
Is that what you're trying to say?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)?w=460&h=345
SO WHAT?!
Response to Scootaloo (Reply #84)
Tetris_Iguana This message was self-deleted by its author.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Response to Scootaloo (Reply #132)
Tetris_Iguana This message was self-deleted by its author.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Response to Scootaloo (Reply #135)
Tetris_Iguana This message was self-deleted by its author.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Response to Scootaloo (Reply #137)
Tetris_Iguana This message was self-deleted by its author.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You are not just dismissing but advocating the annihilation of hundreds of thousands of people, under the logic that "Oh, well, it all turned out okay in the end!" Except it didn't. Those hundreds of thousands of people are still dead. The trauma and destruction remains even after the bodies and rubble are cleared away. And yes, the culprits went to graves unjudged for the massacres they intentionally conducted.
So what, are you advocating Isreal give Gaza the Nagasaki treatment as a method of making friends?
Response to Scootaloo (Reply #147)
Tetris_Iguana This message was self-deleted by its author.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Predictable.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Joe might go earlier because he is under 100 posts but this other clown is clapping for a pizza.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Tetris_Iguana
(501 posts)Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Tetris_Iguana
(501 posts)Apparently commonsense posts that are even the slightest pro-Israel are no longer tolerated in this sudden fervor of pacifism.
So I will politely watch from the sidelines until the echo chamber passes.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Your posts were made in advocacy of the utter flattening of cities and the murder of hundreds of thousands of people with bombs both nuclear and conventional.
I'm not sure how that parses as "Pro-Israel."
Tetris_Iguana
(501 posts)but nowhere was nuclear holocaust suggested. Just polite defense for Israel's current operation.
My apologies if that wasn't clear.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Because they were all "polite defense for israel," and you might get in trouble for that.
That's how it works, yup.
Tetris_Iguana
(501 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)on a much larger scale. They attacked other nations.
This is people who were living in a place and then informed most of it was no longer theirs.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)alterfurz
(2,469 posts)Fuck every cause that ends in murder and children crying. -- Iain Banks
malaise
(268,701 posts)n/t
LiberalArkie
(15,703 posts)I saw an interview with a Palestinian farmer who olive grove had been bulldozed for some new Israelite settlements. He was saying that the olive groves had been in his family for over 5,000 years. His family had been family that plot for over 5,000 years. And Israel put some houses on top of it. I had thought of Israel as a people of history, but it seemed to me that just greed and hate.
malaise
(268,701 posts)for protesting those settlements. Rachel Corrie.
You're so right 5,000 years obliterated by settlements - loot and plunder.
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)Interesting read from 2003 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x216793
malaise
(268,701 posts)YOu see patriotism is quite subjective.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)True there is some thought they are rogue outlaws and the Israeli government does not support them. However, when they demand Palestinians control the actions of other Palestinians, the least they could do is punish settlers in some way.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)ann---
(1,933 posts)We can't even imagine how many bin ladens are being hatched right now due to the Palestinian Holocaust. The world will surely regret allowing this to happen with impunity.
delrem
(9,688 posts)Netanyahu is a bin laden.
vlakitti
(401 posts)Thanks, Malaise...
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)over the past few days has opened my eyes and changed my mind about this situation. At first, I did not see Israel as the aggressor, but now, I can see that nothing can justify this level of horror that has been unleashed upon the Palestinians.
Response to malaise (Original post)
AtomicKitten This message was self-deleted by its author.
brooklynite
(94,352 posts)Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Shiites, Sunnis, Hindus, Buddhists, Daoists, Atheists...
Have I missed someone?
flvegan
(64,406 posts)It's usually done under the context of "I want" and under the flag of religion or money.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Vengeful, hate filled, fucking war criminals.
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)elias49
(4,259 posts)spanone
(135,792 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Published on Jul 23, 2014
Foreign Affairs Correspondent, Jonathan Miller, reports on the latest exchanges between Israel and Gaza, which have so far led to the deaths of around 650 Palestinians.
countryjake
(8,554 posts)The irony, it hurts.
Thanks for sharing the vid, Jefferson.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)You're welcome on the video..gives information everyone should know about.
Uncle Joe
(58,284 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)They do that on purpose.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025277492
malaise
(268,701 posts)The abused becomes the abuser
JEB
(4,748 posts)An exceptionally large share of blame rests right here in the "exceptional" USA.
madokie
(51,076 posts)Thieves.
I try to stay out of these I/P post but this morning I had to make a comment.
malaise
(268,701 posts)The lies no longer work. This must be stopped.
treestar
(82,383 posts)LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)at just the right moment to hear the father say to the boy, "Son, the essence of life is cruelty." Truer words.....
malaise
(268,701 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Those who insist on dividing humanity into little groups called 'religion'. So long as there is 'us' and 'not-us', there will be killing.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Certain leadership now in Israel is doing what abused human beings have done within families. The chain needs to stop somewhere. How can it be stopped?
One thing in my book is for sure. We should not continue to enable the abuse happening. We need to look at withholding any kind of military aid unless certain steps are taken to stop this mess. We should be calling the shots in what we as a country provide to them, not them telling us what to provide them.
valerief
(53,235 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Countdown_3_2_1
(878 posts)Here is a radical thought: Maybe Hamas should stop the attacks and invest in its own people for a change?
When Gaza isn't launching missiles or terror attacks Israel leaves them alone.
Look at the West Bank. Are they under attack? No. Neither are they launching missiles.
Maybe, just maybe it wasn't such a bright idea for Gaza to elect known terrorists to lead them.
randome
(34,845 posts)The West Banks hosts the official Government of the State of Palestine. Hamas is no more representative of Palestine than the Tea Party is representative of America.
Israel is, in effect, saying, "No negotiations until every single one of you is perfect in our eyes." That is not the humane way to deal with a humanitarian crisis. But that's not Israel's concern, is it?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]
Countdown_3_2_1
(878 posts)#1) Hamas refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist. It is in their charter: they want ALL of Israel, not a two state solution. Hamas is in an eternal state of war with Israel.
# 2) Hamas is a terrorist entity. Their one goal is to kill Jews. Further they consistently target civilians.
#3) Hamas has broken every agreement they ever made, even the recent cease fires were all broken by Hamas shelling.
Kinda hard to negotiate with people who want to kill you.
Bottom Line: It takes TWO parties to make peace. Hamas wants war, pure and simple.
OK, let me ask you a question. Why does Hamas store missiles and munitions in schools?
randome
(34,845 posts)And who says Hamas stores missiles in schools? Israel? Maybe that has not been definitively debunked but there is widespread doubt that it's true.
Why not negotiate with the recognized government of Palestine? What is preventing Israel from doing that?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]
Countdown_3_2_1
(878 posts)This is representative govt in it's purest form. The people spoke, and the people placed a terrorist group in power.
http://www.unrwa.org//newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools
UNRWA Condemns Placement of Rockets, for a Second Time, in One of Its Schools
randome
(34,845 posts)Why not make overtures to the 'real' government and hope it catches on to the rest? What does Israel have to lose other than the usual pretexts for killing?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]
Countdown_3_2_1
(878 posts)They aren't shooting missiles. They aren't digging terror tunnels...West Bank are still standing.
Gaza could learn a lesson from the West Bank. Don't commit acts of war, live in peace and Israel will leave you alone.
randome
(34,845 posts)If by 'leave alone', you mean build more settlements in Palestinian territory. Israel wants peace? Then don't commit acts of war. Since Israel is the one holding all the cards, it's up to them to do the humane thing.
Recognize the West Bank as the legitimate government of Palestine and sign a peace treaty. It's better than periodically killing hundreds of people. At least that's how it looks to me.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Most recently in Iraq and Afghanistan, but of course also Vietnam, Cambodia, etc.
kentuck
(111,052 posts)Where do they go?
Where do they sleep? What do they eat?
Does anyone care?
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)The world needs to care. And so do the Israeli people, who wanted so badly for the world to care when they were massacred and displaced from their homes not so long ago.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Qalandiya checkpoint, Occupied Palestine
Boston (photo: Nadeen Abuhasan)
Karachi, Pakistan
Chicago
Cape Town, South Africa
Rabbat, Morrocco
Nazareth
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)It does the heart good to see that there are so many people who understand that the awfulness of the events of the past month without buying into all the political hardsell.
malaise
(268,701 posts)The world has had enough lies.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)July 25, 2014
I want to survive, and if I dont, remember that I was not a Hamas man or a fighter. I wasnt used as a human shield, either. I was home. This tweet came from a young Gaza resident the night of July 23, as the Israeli air force was bombing Gaza. It caught the attention of Orit Perlov, a researcher at the Institute for National Strategic Studies (INSS) and an expert on analyzing Arab societies through social networks. Perlov was quick to retweet it and even posted these words of despair on her Facebook page. She wanted to expose the Israeli public to a different perspective. But most of the Israeli responses were not empathetic. One suggested that the despondent young man organize his friends and launch an Arab Spring against Hamas.
In an interview with Al-Monitor, Perlov says, This is one of the sadder tweets Ive come across. It reflects despair and hopelessness. After all, what do they have in Gaza? 45% unemployment, intermittent power and water supply and now a third war within six years. Its a society seeking to survive. I call it Gaza Ghetto because thats how they feel, and I dont argue with peoples perception of themselves. Such descriptions of the difficult climate in Gaza emerge from the social media all the time, and Perlov constantly monitors them.
She recounts, for example, that The Gazans distinguish among eight different types of Israeli bombings. Theres a bomb that starts with a shriek and then a boom that means it fell far away. If you hear a boom, it fell nearby. There are small shells that fall before the big shell, like a kind of warning. They dont hide, of course, because they have no shelters. Anyone reading the tweets from there will do so with a heavy heart.
Since the start of Operation Protective Edge, Perlov has increased her presence on the networks in Egypt and Gaza. That way she manages to gain insights and interesting assessments of how Hamas is conducting itself, many of them different from those expounded by experts and pundits in the Israeli media. As she explains in a recent report she compiled for INSS, Perlov has been looking at the networks for answers to several questions, among them why Gazas residents, most of whom opposed to Hamas, dont take to the streets to demonstrate or rebel against its rule.
Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/07/orit-perlov-social-media-palestinians-gaza-mahmoud-abbas.html#ixzz38gI2VUSd
Chicago
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Warmongers and war criminals. Just like our MIC did and does. It's what they are.
Trillo
(9,154 posts)and if anyone decides to donate to rebuild. I guess "You break it, You buy it" doesn't apply in war zones.