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malaise

(268,701 posts)
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:26 PM Jul 2014

Who does this to fellow human beings?



The bombs that hit these streets in the time between the Observer's two visits were visible, and sometimes audible, across the city as huge explosions sent up eruptions of grey smoke into the sky.

What happened here in Beit Hanoun, and in other neighbourhoods of Gaza hardest hit by the Israeli assault, will inevitably demand an explanation: whether the extremity of violence unleashed in these residential areas in recent days was proportionate, or if the destruction amounts to a war crime.

Those are questions for the days ahead. On Saturday, however, in the midst of a 12-hour humanitarian ceasefire, the concerns were more immediate ones, as thousands of Palestinian residents flocked back to their ruined neighbourhoods to see what remained.

As they came on foot and in cars, they were accompanied by fire engines, bulldozers and ambulances of the Red Crescent, whose crews by mid-afternoon had recovered 85 bodies, many of them partially decomposed, buried under the rubble of Gaza's most damaged neighbourhoods. Officials said the death toll among Palestinians had passed 1,000.

In some places visited by the Observer whole blocks had been flattened, dozens of buildings at a time reduced to a moonscape from which the smell of death at times wafted. We came across Mohammad Shaweish at the entrance to Beit Hanoun, sitting on a cane chair in a pink ground-floor room that had been ripped open to the street, an electricity pylon lying black and smouldering outside where it had been felled. His family occupied four homes on this corner, all gutted by the air strike that ripped off the outside walls.

---------------------
Don't expect them to be loving those who did this to them.

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Who does this to fellow human beings? (Original Post) malaise Jul 2014 OP
Just remember, Malaise, that they're not upset about this at all. stranger81 Jul 2014 #1
Of course they welcome watching their families slaughtered, their homes bombed malaise Jul 2014 #4
Well, yes. Haven't you heard that the only thing Palestinians love more than killing Jews stranger81 Jul 2014 #6
That people believe they can sell us that BS suggests malaise Jul 2014 #8
I'm gonna go with both. stranger81 Jul 2014 #9
there's a lot of people who are sickened by both sides Skittles Jul 2014 #123
I second that notion...n/t Califa Jul 2014 #205
Look how many here are buying it... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #29
There is that segment of the population they can sell anything. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #46
The propaganda machine hasn't been as effective as it usually is Warpy Jul 2014 #154
That's because all the emperors are now naked malaise Jul 2014 #160
Just a few more telegenic bodies & rubble piles. Jackpine Radical Jul 2014 #62
You'd think they were giving the bodies high-fashion makeovers, from the way Netanyahu said that. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #82
It was one of the most despicable comments ever heard malaise Jul 2014 #86
That comment was especially offensive as well as the one the Knesset member made Skidmore Jul 2014 #90
Was it little snakes malaise Jul 2014 #91
Little snakes.. Skidmore Jul 2014 #94
She blamed the press malaise Jul 2014 #101
Is there a contest among the members to see who can say the most hideous things? Unreal. Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #112
Did she say it or not? She also said their mothers should be killed so they don't 'bear any more sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #139
Oh, not just her. Scootaloo Jul 2014 #159
Step one is impossible in that Egypt would not let them into Sinai treestar Jul 2014 #177
yeah, same word heaven05 Jul 2014 #202
wow, that's horrifying (n/t) a2liberal Jul 2014 #222
Some IDF wear T-shirts depicting Pregnant Palestinian women in cross-hairs whathehell Jul 2014 #168
Or any member of the Congress that gave George W. Bush, I mean Netanyahu's government Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #95
Rmoney and McGramps malaise Jul 2014 #100
Bibi the baby killer will say anything to make Israel look like the victim even as Palestinian R. Daneel Olivaw Jul 2014 #191
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man. Thomas Paine Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2014 #2
Profound malaise Jul 2014 #7
You are such a fount of obscure information, malaise. brer cat Jul 2014 #16
LOL malaise Jul 2014 #20
Fie! Away with your Commonwealth thinking! Jeff Murdoch Jul 2014 #58
LOL malaise Jul 2014 #115
"Commonwealth--" Now that I think about it, Jackpine Radical Jul 2014 #117
Don't be silly. Jeff Murdoch Jul 2014 #120
If they used "individualwealth we'd know it was once all owned by the queen and her British folks malaise Jul 2014 #186
Yes, it does, and it also makes mankind utterly stupid and ignorant. n/t RKP5637 Jul 2014 #35
Outstanding. H2O Man Jul 2014 #39
Thomas Paine had that one right. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #47
Right on, Tom Paine.... paleotn Jul 2014 #75
so true. BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2014 #76
Organized religion in a nutshell. SammyWinstonJack Jul 2014 #124
or this HERVEPA Jul 2014 #3
Both are horrific malaise Jul 2014 #5
You ask who would do that type of thing. HERVEPA Jul 2014 #18
So is the violence against the Palestinians in Gaza malaise Jul 2014 #24
so here is the face of the other side magical thyme Jul 2014 #85
The call for blood is so blatant. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #113
and represent a tiny percentage of all Israelis. HERVEPA Jul 2014 #141
Hervepa, the ones in power are the ones we all worry about, right? Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #142
Thank You for understanding. HERVEPA Jul 2014 #143
I wish they all had better too, totally..and thank you for understanding me as well. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #144
The problem is both sides have been labeling each other as *all* extremists over the decades... cascadiance Jul 2014 #199
The Zionists have made know, since that late 1800s, of their intent magical thyme Jul 2014 #200
Yep, this conflict goes back centuries... cascadiance Jul 2014 #203
As if she is an insignificant noboby HangOnKids Jul 2014 #145
Face of evil lark Jul 2014 #197
Both are horrific. BlueMTexpat Jul 2014 #162
That's all you've got? BillZBubb Jul 2014 #11
+1 Scuba Jul 2014 #15
+2 GeorgeGist Jul 2014 #17
Likud supporters must be running out of steam BlindTiresias Jul 2014 #22
They are definitely running out of excuses. BillZBubb Jul 2014 #27
I answered the poster's question, in case you didn't notice. HERVEPA Jul 2014 #23
When the Mafia kills someone, does the FBI drop bombs on all of Chicago? Maedhros Jul 2014 #54
So Hamas will allow Israel police to arrest hack89 Jul 2014 #81
Yep. So simple. HERVEPA Jul 2014 #92
And delusional hack89 Jul 2014 #98
I wasn't arguing with you. HERVEPA Jul 2014 #104
Got it. Sorry. Nt hack89 Jul 2014 #110
You aren't against use of drones are you? treestar Jul 2014 #180
I don't expect civilians to stop terrorists hack89 Jul 2014 #189
The government of Yemen is responsible for getting rid of Al Qaeda there treestar Jul 2014 #192
Actually the government of Yemen has asked for US assistance hack89 Jul 2014 #193
And they blame the ordinary people for Hamas treestar Jul 2014 #179
Well, that's because the picture you posted is twelve years old Scootaloo Jul 2014 #65
Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy. Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #87
-4, How soon people forget seveneyes Jul 2014 #31
What exactly does that have to do with murdering 1000 people now? BillZBubb Jul 2014 #33
You have no idea of my moral center Bubb HERVEPA Jul 2014 #49
On the contrary, I have a very good idea. BillZBubb Jul 2014 #51
You just have to get into the apartheid mind set. Maedhros Jul 2014 #56
Ah, that's the secret! nt. BillZBubb Jul 2014 #106
+3 Enthusiast Jul 2014 #48
Both sides point the finger at the other treestar Jul 2014 #178
Give them some F-14s and money and they won't use car bombs. nt Logical Jul 2014 #140
The US? n/t hughee99 Jul 2014 #10
Yep, we have done our share, too. nt awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #32
Earlier today on MSNBC, one of the regular correspondents that is Skidmore Jul 2014 #12
I could not say it better malaise Jul 2014 #13
A massacre, I would agree with that..indiscriminate killing. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #21
Sadly, this kind of shit is all too common Jeff Murdoch Jul 2014 #61
Yes, all too common and more than we should have ever initiated.n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #63
An idea...Stop the qassams and other missiles. Rhinodawg Jul 2014 #14
Baloney. BillZBubb Jul 2014 #19
That is a total lie. HERVEPA Jul 2014 #25
The kidnappings BlindTiresias Jul 2014 #30
Shhhhhhhhhhhhh malaise Jul 2014 #34
There have been continuous rocket attacks. HERVEPA Jul 2014 #55
Just like there's been continuous occupation. stranger81 Jul 2014 #68
And now it turns out that it was most unlikely that Hamas killed those malaise Jul 2014 #28
That was part of my point, but apparently it's a "total lie". BillZBubb Jul 2014 #108
Everything is a total lie except their total malaise Jul 2014 #109
Look up the order of events please BlindTiresias Jul 2014 #26
End the Warsaw like ghetto.... paleotn Jul 2014 #78
+1,0000 KoKo Jul 2014 #96
Precisely malaise Jul 2014 #105
I pointed out one of the other parallels and it went right over a pro Israel poster's head Warpy Jul 2014 #157
Yes stop the settlements treestar Jul 2014 #182
No, Israel is Flattening Gaza - Israel Needs to Stop flattening Gaza TubbersUK Jul 2014 #114
There's always an excuse for the massacre of the "wrong kind" of humans, I see Scootaloo Jul 2014 #129
Disappointed is a mild word malaise Jul 2014 #169
They were stopped. For 19 months n2doc Jul 2014 #170
How can ordinary people do that? treestar Jul 2014 #181
Gaza: Is this a war on children? | Channel 4 News ( Warning ) Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #36
Children malaise Jul 2014 #41
Very credible reporting, should be in V&MM for more views. freshwest Jul 2014 #66
Very good point, please share, freshwest...thank you. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #71
Best if you do. Major keyboard issue, have to paste spaces and can't respond well. Keyboard ordered freshwest Jul 2014 #83
Oh ok, which groups did you suggest...I was not sure which ones you were referring to. Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #93
Here: freshwest Jul 2014 #99
Duh, to me..thank you. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #107
Recommended. H2O Man Jul 2014 #37
Tweet from Palestinian young man: Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #38
Every tweet I've read from Gaza during this ceasefire described it as an... countryjake Jul 2014 #40
The photos are hard to watch malaise Jul 2014 #43
I have seen many isolated photos, none like this one. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #45
Watch these - graphic malaise Jul 2014 #70
Thanks, malaise..I haven't been able to get anything from the Guardian to load Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #79
Those are heartbreaking images... Moostache Jul 2014 #88
No one has answered for Vietnam malaise Jul 2014 #89
Holy shit! L0oniX Jul 2014 #52
Precise, pinpoint targeting, from the most conscientious military in the world Scootaloo Jul 2014 #67
+1,000,000,000 R. Daneel Olivaw Jul 2014 #198
Cross-referencing to this thread, malaise. Skidmore Jul 2014 #42
Good idea malaise Jul 2014 #44
This is not just payback. This is extended punishment too. L0oniX Jul 2014 #50
The USA did in WWII. So what? n/t Joe Magarac Jul 2014 #53
I would hope we learned a lesson. Skidmore Jul 2014 #57
Bombed the shit out of Germany... Joe Magarac Jul 2014 #111
The lesson of Hiroshima and Nagasaki looms large. Skidmore Jul 2014 #116
Yeah, all war crimes and atrocities are justified because: World War II Oversimplified. Hissyspit Jul 2014 #122
Unbelievable isn't it malaise Jul 2014 #190
Congratulations, you got the obligatory "But...but...but..." post in. NuclearDem Jul 2014 #60
Hell, everybody does it.... paleotn Jul 2014 #80
So what. So what? Scootaloo Jul 2014 #84
This message was self-deleted by its author Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #130
Wow. n/t Scootaloo Jul 2014 #132
This message was self-deleted by its author Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #133
So does indifference to the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people Scootaloo Jul 2014 #135
This message was self-deleted by its author Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #136
What utterly disgusting bullshit n/t Scootaloo Jul 2014 #137
This message was self-deleted by its author Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #138
Evidence that you're spouting disgusting bullshit? Scootaloo Jul 2014 #147
This message was self-deleted by its author Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #150
He deleted all his comments HangOnKids Jul 2014 #151
They are both on alert HangOnKids Jul 2014 #148
2 hidden posts in less than 90 days on a site also has a certain effect HangOnKids Jul 2014 #149
You tell me Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #152
Nice deletes, Tetris. n/t Scootaloo Jul 2014 #158
My good friend, hangonkids, gave me the heads up. Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #161
Yes, your plight is terrible Scootaloo Jul 2014 #163
Nice twist Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #164
Which is why you deleted your posts, of course Scootaloo Jul 2014 #165
Better safe than sorry. Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #166
Whatever fuels your fantasy I guess Scootaloo Jul 2014 #167
Germans and Japanese were the aggressors treestar Jul 2014 #184
so did Germany ... MisterP Jul 2014 #209
Only the winners decide what were war crimes. -- Gary Wills alterfurz Jul 2014 #59
That simple malaise Jul 2014 #64
Every thing sunk into my head about 5 or 6 years ago. LiberalArkie Jul 2014 #69
I remember a young American lady was bulldozed and killed malaise Jul 2014 #73
I remember on DU2 someone calling Rachel Corrie a "stupid bitch" U4ikLefty Jul 2014 #134
How sad is that malaise Jul 2014 #172
Here's a song about that: Ken Burch Jul 2014 #121
The settlements are the part I find unreasonable treestar Jul 2014 #185
Only meanies Boom Sound 416 Jul 2014 #72
Exactly ann--- Jul 2014 #74
What kind of "bin ladens" did this? delrem Jul 2014 #102
Great post, great thread. vlakitti Jul 2014 #77
Horrible, I must say that seeing all the death and destruction smirkymonkey Jul 2014 #97
This message was self-deleted by its author AtomicKitten Jul 2014 #103
Who does this? Well, let's see... brooklynite Jul 2014 #118
I dare say that everyone with the means to do so, does so. flvegan Jul 2014 #119
Who does it? War criminals. morningfog Jul 2014 #125
A nation that has, sadly, lost its moral compass. n/t TubbersUK Jul 2014 #126
Those who can, it seems. nt elias49 Jul 2014 #127
... spanone Jul 2014 #128
Gaza under attack: 'You've got three minutes to get everybody out' | Channel 4 News Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #131
Did you see the ad that appeared over that at YouTube? countryjake Jul 2014 #146
No I hadn't seen it..I can only imagine what those facts would be. Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #153
Thanks for the video, Jefferson. Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #155
Same here, Uncle Joe. :( Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #156
The Telegenic Dead Octafish Jul 2014 #171
That's Nazi speak malaise Jul 2014 #173
And we (USA) supply the arms. JEB Jul 2014 #174
One word covers it madokie Jul 2014 #175
Even the most reserved people have reached breaking point malaise Jul 2014 #183
They're just defending themselves from that lady treestar Jul 2014 #176
One day while on a walk, I passed a father and son LibDemAlways Jul 2014 #187
Profound indeed n/t malaise Jul 2014 #196
Who does this? randome Jul 2014 #188
It's like the inherited chain of family abuse where the abused become the abusers... cascadiance Jul 2014 #194
People who make money off war. nt valerief Jul 2014 #195
Warmongers! Plain and simple. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #201
Consequences. This is what happens when you lob missiles into other countries. Countdown_3_2_1 Jul 2014 #204
So what's the excuse for Israel not negotiating with the official Palestinian government? randome Jul 2014 #207
Three Reasons Countdown_3_2_1 Jul 2014 #211
I just said Hamas is not representative of Palestine and you ignored that. randome Jul 2014 #213
Hamas was overwhelmingly voted in by palestinians. Countdown_3_2_1 Jul 2014 #214
They govern the Gaza Strip only. The West Bank has the officially recognized Palestinian gov't. randome Jul 2014 #215
Amazingly the West Bank is Not being attacked by the IDF. Countdown_3_2_1 Jul 2014 #216
"Israel will leave you alone." That's rich. randome Jul 2014 #218
We do. Arugula Latte Jul 2014 #206
The last I heard, there are about 150,000 Palestinians "displaced"... kentuck Jul 2014 #208
Exactly. Skidmore Jul 2014 #210
In Photos: Worldwide protest against Israeli attack on Gaza (Updated) Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #212
Thanks for this post. Skidmore Jul 2014 #219
Thanks for this malaise Jul 2014 #221
Tweets from Gaza show Israel other side of war Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #217
Who does this? 99Forever Jul 2014 #220
Looks like there will be some construction jobs, if bombs and rockets ever stop flying, Trillo Jul 2014 #223

stranger81

(2,345 posts)
1. Just remember, Malaise, that they're not upset about this at all.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:29 PM
Jul 2014

They simply irrationally hate and want to kill Jews. Nothing to do with living circumstances over the last 70 years. Nothing at all.

malaise

(268,701 posts)
4. Of course they welcome watching their families slaughtered, their homes bombed
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:37 PM
Jul 2014

and their land stolen. They would never fight back - why would they?

When you control the message, it's easy to distort reality.

Reminds of Cheney et al expecting to be greeted with garlands of flowers for illegally invading and bombing the shit out of Iraq.
These people are fugging crazy.

stranger81

(2,345 posts)
6. Well, yes. Haven't you heard that the only thing Palestinians love more than killing Jews
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:41 PM
Jul 2014
is killing their own children? All those pictures you see in the media of crying Palestinians -- they're actually crying with joy that all of their immediate and extended family members are finally dead.

stranger81

(2,345 posts)
9. I'm gonna go with both.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:46 PM
Jul 2014

On the other hand, many ostensibly thinking people -- including many here at DU -- clearly DO believe this bullshit.

How they manage to navigate the world with their heads so far up their asses is beyond me.

Warpy

(111,145 posts)
154. The propaganda machine hasn't been as effective as it usually is
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:15 AM
Jul 2014

and a lot of people are finally starting to ask questions about this particular war to rebuild support for the Likud party.

malaise

(268,701 posts)
160. That's because all the emperors are now naked
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 07:56 AM
Jul 2014

Give thanks for the internet - we can see for ourselves. Additionally there are more than a few journalists are no longer embedded. and even on the corporate media there are a fwe who refuse to push the established meme.

Time to oust all these RW lunatics across the planet.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
62. Just a few more telegenic bodies & rubble piles.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 06:11 PM
Jul 2014

And telegenic women wailing for their telegenically dismembered young ones.

malaise

(268,701 posts)
86. It was one of the most despicable comments ever heard
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:26 PM
Jul 2014

It paralleled Nazi comments.
Typical war criminal

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
90. That comment was especially offensive as well as the one the Knesset member made
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:38 PM
Jul 2014

calling the Palestinian children "little snakes."

malaise

(268,701 posts)
91. Was it little snakes
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:40 PM
Jul 2014

or little rats - although both are as offensive.

I'm waiting for a comment from Obama - he has children,

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
94. Little snakes..
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:53 PM
Jul 2014

and then she tried to walk it back and blame the press for her words. Its hard when national policy becomes killing children to rationalize language that is no longer hyperbole.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/10/knesset-member-walks-back-on-facebook-post-calling-palestinian-kids-little-snakes.html

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
139. Did she say it or not? She also said their mothers should be killed so they don't 'bear any more
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:07 AM
Jul 2014

little snakes'. Did someone take control of her FB account? The press SHOULD publish these crimes. And it is a crime to recommend the total annihilation of an ethnic group, especially when you are an elected official with the ability to help make it happen.

Has she been thrown out of office yet? If not, then she spoke for the Israeli Government.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
159. Oh, not just her.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 03:50 AM
Jul 2014
Moshe Feiglin had some interesting things to say, too. His, ahem, solution for Gaza. No, that's not me editorializing, that's what he fucking calls it.

He's deputy speaker of the knesset. This makes him Israel's John Boehner.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
177. Step one is impossible in that Egypt would not let them into Sinai
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 10:52 AM
Jul 2014

Which is a dessert, so how could they survive there?

It would be a refugee crisis for the rest of the world.

whathehell

(29,034 posts)
168. Some IDF wear T-shirts depicting Pregnant Palestinian women in cross-hairs
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 09:22 AM
Jul 2014

saying "Two for One". I'm guessing she owns one.

What scum.

Uncle Joe

(58,284 posts)
95. Or any member of the Congress that gave George W. Bush, I mean Netanyahu's government
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:56 PM
Jul 2014

unanimous carte-blanche approval.



However I believe this tune will be playing for a long time before that occurs.

I also believe that vote helped undermine any diplomatic authority by Kerry to work out a cease fire or peace agreement.
 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
191. Bibi the baby killer will say anything to make Israel look like the victim even as Palestinian
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:07 PM
Jul 2014

children are being shredded by IDF artillery.

That guy is as sick as Bush II.

brer cat

(24,523 posts)
16. You are such a fount of obscure information, malaise.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:57 PM
Jul 2014

That is probably why we keep you around here...along with your severe weather alerts.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
117. "Commonwealth--" Now that I think about it,
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 09:27 PM
Jul 2014

the term itself reeks of Godless Communism.

Why not "Individualwealth?"

malaise

(268,701 posts)
186. If they used "individualwealth we'd know it was once all owned by the queen and her British folks
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:12 AM
Jul 2014


Nothing common about it and no commoners among the wealthy
 

HERVEPA

(6,107 posts)
3. or this
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:35 PM
Jul 2014

Police and paramedics inspect the scene after a suicide bomber blew himself up on a rush-hour bus near the Jerusalem neighborhood of Gilo during the Second Intifada, on June 18, 2002


 

HERVEPA

(6,107 posts)
18. You ask who would do that type of thing.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:02 PM
Jul 2014

Not even a pretense of self-defense there.
I despise Netanyahu and think he is trash.
Your posts are totally one-sided.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
85. so here is the face of the other side
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:24 PM
Jul 2014


On Monday Shaked quoted this on her Facebook page: "Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."

"They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists," said Shaked. Standing behind the operations on Gaza, "they are all our enemies and their blood should be on our hands. This also applies to the mothers of the dead terrorists," Shaked added.

Read more: http://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/14/mothers-of-all-palestinians-should-also-be-killed-says-israeli-politician

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
142. Hervepa, the ones in power are the ones we all worry about, right?
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:29 AM
Jul 2014

So we can't dismiss that as tiny..but I know what you mean, and agree with your
larger point.

 

HERVEPA

(6,107 posts)
143. Thank You for understanding.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:32 AM
Jul 2014

I hate Netanyahu with a passion. Doesn't mean I don't hate Hamas also.
Israelis and people of Gaza have made incredibly poor choices in their leaders.
Both are are paying for it, albeit in very different ways.

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
199. The problem is both sides have been labeling each other as *all* extremists over the decades...
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:38 PM
Jul 2014

The Israelis have for a long time considered *all* Palestinians as terrorists, even if many if not most Palestinians don't want violence and just want to go on with their lives. Now the Israelis are feeling labeled by what Netanyahu's *terroristic* bunch are doing themselves.

Now, the hate for what the Israelis have done to push Palestinians over the years have probably enabled the terrorists in earlier times as a way to respond to what the Israelis did to Palestinians in pushing them out of their homes and oppressing them in occupied lands. Likewise the Israelis have had their fear of terrorism exploited in to voting in nut balls like Netanyahu that are carrying out more extremist methodologies than they might personally endorse too. Somehow in general the hate on both sides needs to stop as the cancer that it is. There needs to be some leadership on both sides that preach forgiveness, and look at practical ways to enable those that want to have each side live amongst each other in a time of healing.

WE still haven't got rid of the remnants of attitudes of racism, etc. from earlier times when slavery was legal, but setting a framework for freedom for all, etc. has made it so each successive generation can put some of that painful past more behind them and heal over time.

The U.S. NEEDS to find those that would enable healing and give those groups more power on either side of this conflict, NOT give those more power that will provide more bucks to our defense industry that we have been doing for so many years now that have made this conflict so much worse and alienate the world against us too now. THAT is some healing we really need RIGHT NOW!

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
200. The Zionists have made know, since that late 1800s, of their intent
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:49 PM
Jul 2014

to drive out all the Palestinians.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html
Despite the steady arrival in Palestine of Jewish colonists after 1882, it is important to realize that not until the few weeks immediately preceding the establishment of Israel in the spring of 1948 was there ever anything other than a huge Arab majority. For example, the Jewish population in 1931 was 174,606 against a total of 1,033,314.” Edward Said, “The Question of Palestine.”

“The aim of the [Jewish National] Fund was ‘to redeem the land of Palestine as the inalienable possession of the Jewish people.’...As early as 1891, Zionist leader Ahad Ha’am wrote that the Arabs “understood very well what we were doing and what we were aiming at’...[Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, stated] ‘We shall try to spirit the penniless [Arab] population across the border by procuring employment for it in transit countries, while denying it employment in our own country... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly’...At various locations in northern Palestine Arab farmers refused to move from land the Fund purchased from absentee owners, and the Turkish authorities, at the Fund’s request, evicted them...

“Before the 20th century, most Jews in Palestine belonged to old Yishuv, or community, that had settled more for religious than for political reasons. There was little if any conflict between them and the Arab population. Tensions began after the first Zionist settlers arrived in the 1880’s...when [they] purchased land from absentee Arab owners, leading to dispossession of the peasants who had cultivated it.” Don Peretz, “The Arab-Israeli Dispute.”

“Serfs they (the Jews) were in the lands of the Diaspora, and suddenly they find themselves in freedom [in Palestine]; and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause, and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination.” Zionist writer Ahad Ha’am, quoted in Sami Hadawi, “Bitter Harvest.”

much, much more at the link.

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
203. Yep, this conflict goes back centuries...
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:03 PM
Jul 2014

And the more that is remembered... By some that gives them more justification in hating the others that have traditionally hated and fought with them and their ancestors over those centuries.

Someone at some point needs to say "STOP! Let's live for today!". Try to put aside those painful memories, even if some of them are fresh and affected you even yesterday. You need to look at your innocent children who want happiness and a decent life, and hopefully can look in the eyes of another group of children on the other side that want the same thing and aren't yet troubled by knowing the history of this conflict. Both sides need to look at the next generation in such a way that has them look to not continue to fight the fights of their ancestors, but to move towards a non-violent effort to create a world for that new generation to have the better lives that their innocent eyes want and deserve, and not have them crushed by the bombs that are already killing and maiming them today now and may pollute another generation and set off any kind of peace by another generation instead of something within the current generation's hands to achieve.

It IS a tough challenge for both sides, but until they embrace it and work on it, it will doom these kids, and their kids, and their kids, etc. to more generational violence and doom until the day they wipe each other out with more weapons technology, etc. than they can handle.

 

HangOnKids

(4,291 posts)
145. As if she is an insignificant noboby
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:41 AM
Jul 2014

Lady welds some power HERVEPA, if she is a tiny percentage why is her voice being carried so loudly?

BlueMTexpat

(15,365 posts)
162. Both are horrific.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 08:09 AM
Jul 2014

In both, innocents are the tragic victims.

But one represents the act of a radical individual or group, not a State.

The other is performed by a State with all of the force and power it can muster.

The second is thus a disproportionate response that amounts to deliberate collective punishment of an entire population. As such, it is the very definition of a war crime.

And the US supplied many of the weapons to enable the second.

The world sees both quite clearly, I'm afraid, even if many in the US do not want to.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
11. That's all you've got?
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:48 PM
Jul 2014

You pull an event from 2002 to justify the murder of 1000 people now.

It must be sad being as morally empty as you are.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
27. They are definitely running out of excuses.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:06 PM
Jul 2014

It must be tough trying to defend the morally indefensible.

 

HERVEPA

(6,107 posts)
23. I answered the poster's question, in case you didn't notice.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:05 PM
Jul 2014

Plenty of blame to go around on both sides, but I just see one side reflected here.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
54. When the Mafia kills someone, does the FBI drop bombs on all of Chicago?
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:57 PM
Jul 2014

No. It focuses on finding the criminals responsible.

In this case Israel has decided that finding those responsible is just too hard, so its going to just start destroying Gaza until it feels better.

It's textbook collective punishment, which violates international law. Irrefutable war crime.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
81. So Hamas will allow Israel police to arrest
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:11 PM
Jul 2014

People launching rockets at Israel and building infiltration tunnels? Damn, the solution was staring us in the face all along.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
98. And delusional
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 08:07 PM
Jul 2014

You do realize Israeli police haven't step foot in Gaza for years. They have their own police force- many of whom moon light as rocket shooters.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
180. You aren't against use of drones are you?
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:00 AM
Jul 2014

Our use of drones trying to get Al Qaeda in Yemen, for instance.

Or in fact you'd be OK with bombing Yemen if we think there are Al Qaeda operatives there? Don't the Yemeni civilians have the same duties to stop the terrorists near them?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
189. I don't expect civilians to stop terrorists
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:06 PM
Jul 2014

that is a good way to get killed. I expect the government of that region to stop the terrorists. Which of course is the problem with Gaza - the government are the terrorists

treestar

(82,383 posts)
192. The government of Yemen is responsible for getting rid of Al Qaeda there
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:14 PM
Jul 2014

And so it would be OK to bomb the civilians since they are failing, then?

For consistency I would take it you are never one to condemn US drone attacks there. That bridal party that got killed deserved it as their government failed to stop Al Qaeda is what I'd assume you would have to believe.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
193. Actually the government of Yemen has asked for US assistance
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:18 PM
Jul 2014

and frequently operate in coordination with US forces. In principle I support drone attacks. I condemn errors that kill innocents.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
179. And they blame the ordinary people for Hamas
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 10:58 AM
Jul 2014

The ordinary people have a duty to stop Hamas or be killed.

Meanwhile they do nothing to stop the settlements on Palestinian land and restrict Palestinians in their land - the Israeli only roads they had a while back, for instance.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
65. Well, that's because the picture you posted is twelve years old
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 06:25 PM
Jul 2014

And the one from malaise is maybe twelve hours old.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
33. What exactly does that have to do with murdering 1000 people now?
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:11 PM
Jul 2014

No one has forgotten anything, except you have misplaced you moral center.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
56. You just have to get into the apartheid mind set.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 06:01 PM
Jul 2014

Some lives are just worth more than others. Once you realize that, all sorts of things become justifiable.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
178. Both sides point the finger at the other
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 10:56 AM
Jul 2014

constantly.

Or accuse you of supporting the other - but since the Israeli side is stronger they are more often the ones claiming you must support Hamas or their killing.

The Israeli side will claim some sort of moral superiority - the right to "exist," etc. as if they weren't a created and propped up state.

When we get tired of supporting them, it will then become apparent whether or not they really have the military power to exist. And then eat up more land if they do.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
12. Earlier today on MSNBC, one of the regular correspondents that is
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:50 PM
Jul 2014

in the area now (Richard Engel, I think) said he spoke to a Palestinean woman who said that the area she lived in was so obliterated that people couldn't even identify the locations of their homes. This is a massacre, and beyond that, it is the intentional annihilation of peoples' homes and livelihoods. It is beyond appalling, but horrific.

malaise

(268,701 posts)
13. I could not say it better
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:52 PM
Jul 2014

This is a massacre, and beyond that, it is the intentional annihilation of peoples' homes and livelihoods. It is beyond appalling, but horrific.

My question is why does the US government continue to arm these people? Why support this madness?

The place looks like it was hit by a tornado, volcano or tsunami. Even a hurricane does not destroy a place like this. This has got to be stopped.

Jeff Murdoch

(168 posts)
61. Sadly, this kind of shit is all too common
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 06:11 PM
Jul 2014

around the world.

And I would say that we have done more than our fair share of it.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
19. Baloney.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:02 PM
Jul 2014

The missiles were quiet until Netanyahu broke the ceasefire. He bombed Gaza to kill several Hamas members in retaliation for the murder of the three young men in the West Bank. That bombing broke the long standing cease fire.

Now we know that contrary to his public war-mongering, Netanyahu was told that the Hamas leadership was not involved. Netanyahu started this slaughter for his usual criminal reasons.

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
30. The kidnappings
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:07 PM
Jul 2014

Were not even perpetrated by Hamas, it was rogue nuts. The rocket attacks only came AFTER an Israeli reprisal campaign.

Not that a Likudnik would appreciate the order of events in their quest to disguise the evil of the Israeli far right.

stranger81

(2,345 posts)
68. Just like there's been continuous occupation.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 06:30 PM
Jul 2014

They aren't firing those rockets just because they have nothing better to do.

No justice, no peace.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
108. That was part of my point, but apparently it's a "total lie".
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 08:41 PM
Jul 2014

At least it's a lie to those who don't want to see the truth.

malaise

(268,701 posts)
109. Everything is a total lie except their total
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 08:43 PM
Jul 2014

LIES. Remember Hamas is killing the people of Gaza not Israel.

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
26. Look up the order of events please
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:05 PM
Jul 2014

Your position is flat out wrong and makes you either painfully misinformed or a bloody mouthed Likud supporter.

paleotn

(17,884 posts)
78. End the Warsaw like ghetto....
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:00 PM
Jul 2014

...in Gaza and the theft of West Bank land and the rockets might stop. If anyone should know better, it's the damn Israelis.

Warpy

(111,145 posts)
157. I pointed out one of the other parallels and it went right over a pro Israel poster's head
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:56 AM
Jul 2014

There are so many parallels with the Warsaw Ghetto it's uncanny, almost like Netanyahu had used it as a blueprint for how to treat Arabs.

You wonder what it's going to take to strip the blinders of some folks.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
182. Yes stop the settlements
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:03 AM
Jul 2014

which conveys the obvious intention to take all the land.

I don't know why they won't just admit it. Maybe they are afraid of losing US support.

TubbersUK

(1,439 posts)
114. No, Israel is Flattening Gaza - Israel Needs to Stop flattening Gaza
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 09:03 PM
Jul 2014

Under international law :

Both Israel and Hamas have a legal and moral obligation to protect non-combatant lives , homes and infrastructure. Each is responsible for their own actions in this respect and neither party gets a free pass even if the other is behaving badly.

Looking at the pictures coming out of Gaza today, it's pretty clear that Israel has deliberately and systematically targeted civilian homes, businesses and infrastructure which is a crime. To have done so in response to Hamas rocket attacks, brings a further crime, that of collective punishment, into play. As an aside, in so far as crimes against humanity have a magnitude, this one is big, the scenes are utterly shocking.

It's legally and morally indefensible for Israel to persist with its bombardment of Gaza and she should desist immediately and unilaterally. Likewise, Hamas should, without prior conditions, stop firing rockets into Israel. Both need to be held to account.





 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
129. There's always an excuse for the massacre of the "wrong kind" of humans, I see
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 11:25 PM
Jul 2014

I'm a little disappointed by the prevalence of this vile mentality on DU.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
170. They were stopped. For 19 months
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 09:29 AM
Jul 2014

19 months where Israel continued their stranglehold on Gaza. Then when the Palestinians elected a government Israel didn't like, Netanyahu seized on a criminal act by individuals to attack all of Palestine and provoke a war. He lied and people died.
You might wish to question your assumptions.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
181. How can ordinary people do that?
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:01 AM
Jul 2014

Maybe you should stop all the crimes on your block before they happen. Control the acts of bad people in your neighborhood.

Collective punishment is what you are advocating.

malaise

(268,701 posts)
41. Children
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:30 PM
Jul 2014

Little innocent fugging children.
Israelis are relentlessly killing children - let them defend that statement.
I can't take much more of this. Stop the killing of children.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
83. Best if you do. Major keyboard issue, have to paste spaces and can't respond well. Keyboard ordered
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:19 PM
Jul 2014
but won't arrive until next week. I suggest a link to this thread for the discussion.

countryjake

(8,554 posts)
40. Every tweet I've read from Gaza during this ceasefire described it as an...
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:27 PM
Jul 2014

earthquake...a man-made earthquake.


The very end of that article...

A pause in the bombing by Israeli forces – and the ruins of Gaza are laid bare by Peter Beaumont in Gaza

Repeated shelling has inflicted a terrible reality on Palestinians as they try to salvage something from shattered homes and lives

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/26/gaza-pause-bombing-destruction-seen-israel

If there is something worse than the scenes of destruction, it is what is visible in the faces in Beit Hanoun and Shujai'iya. A man is led away down one street in Shujai'iya; staggering and blind with grief he his held up by two others. Women sit in the dust, crying.

We find 33-year-old Rifaat Suqr sitting outside his gutted house, a stunned look on his face. "It is like an earthquake hit this street," he says. "An earthquake."

Except that this was not an earthquake. This was the work of men.



Shujai'iya neighborhood today
from Mohammed Omer on Twitter

malaise

(268,701 posts)
43. The photos are hard to watch
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:32 PM
Jul 2014

but imagine returning to your home to see this or worse, crawling out of the rubble and dealing with the smell of destroyed family members, pets and farm animals, let alone infrastructure.

Man to man is so unjust!!!

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
79. Thanks, malaise..I haven't been able to get anything from the Guardian to load
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:04 PM
Jul 2014

up properly..will try again later.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
88. Those are heartbreaking images...
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:34 PM
Jul 2014

I really hope this is finally a tipping point for people to wake up and see that the Israelis - friends to the USA or not - have got to answer for conducting open warfare on civilian population centers as if this is a modern Dresden.

malaise

(268,701 posts)
89. No one has answered for Vietnam
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:37 PM
Jul 2014

ir Iraq. Indeed war criminals are now emboldened. Might is right.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
67. Precise, pinpoint targeting, from the most conscientious military in the world
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 06:29 PM
Jul 2014

Fuck me, you don't see that much rubble in a Michael Bay film!

No. You can't do that and say "we're not targeting civilians." Bullshit. Bull fucking shit.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
50. This is not just payback. This is extended punishment too.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:50 PM
Jul 2014

IMO they also target women and children.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
57. I would hope we learned a lesson.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 06:06 PM
Jul 2014

"So what" is too easy of a dismissal of such horrendous slaughter. Easy and flippant.

 

Joe Magarac

(297 posts)
111. Bombed the shit out of Germany...
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 08:49 PM
Jul 2014

Demanded and got unconditional surrender (and no "peace" talks).

Result: Peace in that part of the world since 1945.

That's the lesson.

Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
122. Yeah, all war crimes and atrocities are justified because: World War II Oversimplified.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 10:06 PM
Jul 2014

Actually, as you have not paid much attention apparently, no conflicts SINCE then have turned out anything like World War II. The Israel/Palestinian conflict has been going on SINCE then. Read and learn: http://972mag.com/how-can-you-possibly-oppose-this-war/93924

http://972mag.com/how-can-you-possibly-oppose-this-war/93924/

By Dahlia Scheindlin |Published July 19, 2014

How can you possibly oppose this war?

Someone asked me an innocent question: “What is the position of Israelis who are against the war?”

There are obvious answers.

First, this is a disproportionate war that harms huge numbers of civilians. The IDF is bombarding an area that it has already imprisoned by occupation from 1967, and then through suffocating border, movement, import and export control since 2007. Its residents have been stateless since 1948. It is attacking by air, land and sea, while Hamas attacks civilians in Israel through rockets and now through terrorist infiltration, at an increasingly frenzied pace.

Second, escalation breeds escalation. The south of Israel has not been at peace for a decade, but in this war, the whole country is under attack. And “Protective Edge” made things even worse for the south; all the Israel casualties so far – as of today two civilian deaths, numerous wounded (including children) and one soldier killed – have been in the south. “Code Red” warnings in Sderot all these years were awful, but death is worse. On a good day, there is suffering in Gaza; now the death and destruction there is indescribable.

- snip -

Fourth, the political and social consequences of the war will be a disaster in the short, medium and long term. In the short term, Hamas could easily become stronger, having become the defiant face of military resistance against Israel as diplomacy crumbles.

- snip -

Here is my extremely unpopular answer. There is no such thing as today devoid of yesterday and tomorrow; it is a fiction. The measures of the last ten days grow directly out of the measures in recent years. They will have devastating consequences in years to come. My criticism of this war is not “I told you so,” because some of us have warned for years that the status quo is illusory. Opposition to this war means finding a different response to predictable situations, so that there won’t be a next time, and in two years Israelis won’t have to say “this is no time to analyze the past.’”

- snip -

In the long term, I shudder to think about the souls of people who lost two, three, or 18 family members to Israeli bombs. The sobbing father who begged his child to wake up because he had brought new toys; the woman who told her sister in England to stay away and live, so that at least one of the family members would survive. I see what national trauma has done to the Jewish people more than 60 years following their darkest moments. The manifestations of Palestinian suffering in future generations will be terrible.

The fifth and final reason to oppose the operation is that previous wars have failed. Operation Cast Lead in 2008/9 begat Pillar of Defense in 2012, begat Protective Edge in 2014. Hamas was not toppled, Gaza was not disarmed. The only thing changing is the accelerating pace of the wars.

MORE AT LINK

But, yeah, blowing up civilians and kids? World War II!

Response to Scootaloo (Reply #84)

Response to Scootaloo (Reply #132)

Response to Scootaloo (Reply #135)

Response to Scootaloo (Reply #137)

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
147. Evidence that you're spouting disgusting bullshit?
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:50 AM
Jul 2014
Here and here and here.

You are not just dismissing but advocating the annihilation of hundreds of thousands of people, under the logic that "Oh, well, it all turned out okay in the end!" Except it didn't. Those hundreds of thousands of people are still dead. The trauma and destruction remains even after the bodies and rubble are cleared away. And yes, the culprits went to graves unjudged for the massacres they intentionally conducted.

So what, are you advocating Isreal give Gaza the Nagasaki treatment as a method of making friends?

Response to Scootaloo (Reply #147)

 

HangOnKids

(4,291 posts)
148. They are both on alert
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:53 AM
Jul 2014

Joe might go earlier because he is under 100 posts but this other clown is clapping for a pizza.

Tetris_Iguana

(501 posts)
161. My good friend, hangonkids, gave me the heads up.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 08:04 AM
Jul 2014

Apparently commonsense posts that are even the slightest pro-Israel are no longer tolerated in this sudden fervor of pacifism.

So I will politely watch from the sidelines until the echo chamber passes.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
163. Yes, your plight is terrible
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 08:09 AM
Jul 2014

Your posts were made in advocacy of the utter flattening of cities and the murder of hundreds of thousands of people with bombs both nuclear and conventional.

I'm not sure how that parses as "Pro-Israel."

Tetris_Iguana

(501 posts)
164. Nice twist
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 08:13 AM
Jul 2014

but nowhere was nuclear holocaust suggested. Just polite defense for Israel's current operation.

My apologies if that wasn't clear.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
165. Which is why you deleted your posts, of course
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 08:18 AM
Jul 2014

Because they were all "polite defense for israel," and you might get in trouble for that.

That's how it works, yup.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
184. Germans and Japanese were the aggressors
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:06 AM
Jul 2014

on a much larger scale. They attacked other nations.

This is people who were living in a place and then informed most of it was no longer theirs.

alterfurz

(2,469 posts)
59. Only the winners decide what were war crimes. -- Gary Wills
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 06:09 PM
Jul 2014

Fuck every cause that ends in murder and children crying. -- Iain Banks

LiberalArkie

(15,703 posts)
69. Every thing sunk into my head about 5 or 6 years ago.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 06:30 PM
Jul 2014

I saw an interview with a Palestinian farmer who olive grove had been bulldozed for some new Israelite settlements. He was saying that the olive groves had been in his family for over 5,000 years. His family had been family that plot for over 5,000 years. And Israel put some houses on top of it. I had thought of Israel as a people of history, but it seemed to me that just greed and hate.

malaise

(268,701 posts)
73. I remember a young American lady was bulldozed and killed
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 06:43 PM
Jul 2014

for protesting those settlements. Rachel Corrie.

You're so right 5,000 years obliterated by settlements - loot and plunder.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
185. The settlements are the part I find unreasonable
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:08 AM
Jul 2014

True there is some thought they are rogue outlaws and the Israeli government does not support them. However, when they demand Palestinians control the actions of other Palestinians, the least they could do is punish settlers in some way.

 

ann---

(1,933 posts)
74. Exactly
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 06:46 PM
Jul 2014

We can't even imagine how many bin ladens are being hatched right now due to the Palestinian Holocaust. The world will surely regret allowing this to happen with impunity.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
97. Horrible, I must say that seeing all the death and destruction
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 08:00 PM
Jul 2014

over the past few days has opened my eyes and changed my mind about this situation. At first, I did not see Israel as the aggressor, but now, I can see that nothing can justify this level of horror that has been unleashed upon the Palestinians.

Response to malaise (Original post)

brooklynite

(94,352 posts)
118. Who does this? Well, let's see...
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 09:29 PM
Jul 2014

Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Shiites, Sunnis, Hindus, Buddhists, Daoists, Atheists...

Have I missed someone?

flvegan

(64,406 posts)
119. I dare say that everyone with the means to do so, does so.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 09:35 PM
Jul 2014

It's usually done under the context of "I want" and under the flag of religion or money.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
131. Gaza under attack: 'You've got three minutes to get everybody out' | Channel 4 News
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 11:38 PM
Jul 2014

Published on Jul 23, 2014



Foreign Affairs Correspondent, Jonathan Miller, reports on the latest exchanges between Israel and Gaza, which have so far led to the deaths of around 650 Palestinians.

countryjake

(8,554 posts)
146. Did you see the ad that appeared over that at YouTube?
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:44 AM
Jul 2014
"Israel needs your help. You need the facts to defend Israel. Get your FREE Israel ebook to learn the facts."

The irony, it hurts.


Thanks for sharing the vid, Jefferson.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
153. No I hadn't seen it..I can only imagine what those facts would be.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:12 AM
Jul 2014

You're welcome on the video..gives information everyone should know about.

 

JEB

(4,748 posts)
174. And we (USA) supply the arms.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 10:39 AM
Jul 2014

An exceptionally large share of blame rests right here in the "exceptional" USA.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
175. One word covers it
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 10:46 AM
Jul 2014

Thieves.

I try to stay out of these I/P post but this morning I had to make a comment.

malaise

(268,701 posts)
183. Even the most reserved people have reached breaking point
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:03 AM
Jul 2014

The lies no longer work. This must be stopped.

LibDemAlways

(15,139 posts)
187. One day while on a walk, I passed a father and son
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:48 AM
Jul 2014

at just the right moment to hear the father say to the boy, "Son, the essence of life is cruelty." Truer words.....

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
188. Who does this?
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:59 AM
Jul 2014

Those who insist on dividing humanity into little groups called 'religion'. So long as there is 'us' and 'not-us', there will be killing.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
194. It's like the inherited chain of family abuse where the abused become the abusers...
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:19 PM
Jul 2014

Certain leadership now in Israel is doing what abused human beings have done within families. The chain needs to stop somewhere. How can it be stopped?



One thing in my book is for sure. We should not continue to enable the abuse happening. We need to look at withholding any kind of military aid unless certain steps are taken to stop this mess. We should be calling the shots in what we as a country provide to them, not them telling us what to provide them.

Countdown_3_2_1

(878 posts)
204. Consequences. This is what happens when you lob missiles into other countries.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:14 PM
Jul 2014

Here is a radical thought: Maybe Hamas should stop the attacks and invest in its own people for a change?

When Gaza isn't launching missiles or terror attacks Israel leaves them alone.
Look at the West Bank. Are they under attack? No. Neither are they launching missiles.

Maybe, just maybe it wasn't such a bright idea for Gaza to elect known terrorists to lead them.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
207. So what's the excuse for Israel not negotiating with the official Palestinian government?
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:19 PM
Jul 2014

The West Banks hosts the official Government of the State of Palestine. Hamas is no more representative of Palestine than the Tea Party is representative of America.

Israel is, in effect, saying, "No negotiations until every single one of you is perfect in our eyes." That is not the humane way to deal with a humanitarian crisis. But that's not Israel's concern, is it?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

Countdown_3_2_1

(878 posts)
211. Three Reasons
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:43 PM
Jul 2014

#1) Hamas refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist. It is in their charter: they want ALL of Israel, not a two state solution. Hamas is in an eternal state of war with Israel.

# 2) Hamas is a terrorist entity. Their one goal is to kill Jews. Further they consistently target civilians.

#3) Hamas has broken every agreement they ever made, even the recent cease fires were all broken by Hamas shelling.

Kinda hard to negotiate with people who want to kill you.
Bottom Line: It takes TWO parties to make peace. Hamas wants war, pure and simple.

OK, let me ask you a question. Why does Hamas store missiles and munitions in schools?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
213. I just said Hamas is not representative of Palestine and you ignored that.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 03:31 PM
Jul 2014

And who says Hamas stores missiles in schools? Israel? Maybe that has not been definitively debunked but there is widespread doubt that it's true.

Why not negotiate with the recognized government of Palestine? What is preventing Israel from doing that?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

Countdown_3_2_1

(878 posts)
214. Hamas was overwhelmingly voted in by palestinians.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 03:45 PM
Jul 2014

This is representative govt in it's purest form. The people spoke, and the people placed a terrorist group in power.

http://www.unrwa.org//newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools
UNRWA Condemns Placement of Rockets, for a Second Time, in One of Its Schools

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
215. They govern the Gaza Strip only. The West Bank has the officially recognized Palestinian gov't.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 03:47 PM
Jul 2014

Why not make overtures to the 'real' government and hope it catches on to the rest? What does Israel have to lose other than the usual pretexts for killing?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

Countdown_3_2_1

(878 posts)
216. Amazingly the West Bank is Not being attacked by the IDF.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 03:50 PM
Jul 2014

They aren't shooting missiles. They aren't digging terror tunnels...West Bank are still standing.

Gaza could learn a lesson from the West Bank. Don't commit acts of war, live in peace and Israel will leave you alone.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
218. "Israel will leave you alone." That's rich.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 05:12 PM
Jul 2014

If by 'leave alone', you mean build more settlements in Palestinian territory. Israel wants peace? Then don't commit acts of war. Since Israel is the one holding all the cards, it's up to them to do the humane thing.

Recognize the West Bank as the legitimate government of Palestine and sign a peace treaty. It's better than periodically killing hundreds of people. At least that's how it looks to me.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

kentuck

(111,052 posts)
208. The last I heard, there are about 150,000 Palestinians "displaced"...
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:22 PM
Jul 2014

Where do they go?

Where do they sleep? What do they eat?

Does anyone care?

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
210. Exactly.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:31 PM
Jul 2014

The world needs to care. And so do the Israeli people, who wanted so badly for the world to care when they were massacred and displaced from their homes not so long ago.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
212. In Photos: Worldwide protest against Israeli attack on Gaza (Updated)
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 03:24 PM
Jul 2014
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/worldwide-protest-israeli.html


Qalandiya checkpoint, Occupied Palestine


Boston (photo: Nadeen Abuhasan)


Karachi, Pakistan


Chicago


Cape Town, South Africa



Rabbat, Morrocco


Nazareth

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
219. Thanks for this post.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 05:30 PM
Jul 2014

It does the heart good to see that there are so many people who understand that the awfulness of the events of the past month without buying into all the political hardsell.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
217. Tweets from Gaza show Israel other side of war
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 03:57 PM
Jul 2014

July 25, 2014

“I want to survive, and if I don’t, remember that I was not a Hamas man or a fighter. I wasn’t used as a human shield, either. I was home.” This tweet came from a young Gaza resident the night of July 23, as the Israeli air force was bombing Gaza. It caught the attention of Orit Perlov, a researcher at the Institute for National Strategic Studies (INSS) and an expert on analyzing Arab societies through social networks. Perlov was quick to retweet it and even posted these words of despair on her Facebook page. She wanted to expose the Israeli public to a different perspective. But most of the Israeli responses were not empathetic. One suggested that the despondent young man organize his friends and launch an Arab Spring against Hamas.

In an interview with Al-Monitor, Perlov says, “This is one of the sadder tweets I’ve come across. It reflects despair and hopelessness. After all, what do they have in Gaza? 45% unemployment, intermittent power and water supply and now a third war within six years. It’s a society seeking to survive. I call it ‘Gaza Ghetto’ because that’s how they feel, and I don’t argue with people’s perception of themselves.” Such descriptions of the difficult climate in Gaza emerge from the social media all the time, and Perlov constantly monitors them.

She recounts, for example, that “The Gazans distinguish among eight different types of Israeli bombings. There’s a bomb that starts with a shriek and then a boom — that means it fell far away. If you hear a boom, it fell nearby. There are small shells that fall before the big shell, like a kind of warning. They don’t hide, of course, because they have no shelters. Anyone reading the tweets from there will do so with a heavy heart.”

Since the start of Operation Protective Edge, Perlov has increased her presence on the networks in Egypt and Gaza. That way she manages to gain insights and interesting assessments of how Hamas is conducting itself, many of them different from those expounded by experts and pundits in the Israeli media. As she explains in a recent report she compiled for INSS, Perlov has been looking at the networks for answers to several questions, among them why Gaza’s residents, most of whom opposed to Hamas, don’t take to the streets to demonstrate or rebel against its rule.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/07/orit-perlov-social-media-palestinians-gaza-mahmoud-abbas.html#ixzz38gI2VUSd


Chicago

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
223. Looks like there will be some construction jobs, if bombs and rockets ever stop flying,
Mon Jul 28, 2014, 11:46 AM
Jul 2014

and if anyone decides to donate to rebuild. I guess "You break it, You buy it" doesn't apply in war zones.

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