Five Israeli Talking Points on Gaza—Debunked

[eridani]

http://www.thenation.com/article/180783/five-israeli-talking-points-gaza-debunked?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=email_nation&utm_campaign=Email%20Nation%20%28NEW%29%20-%20Headline%20Nation%20Feed%2007292014&newsletter=email_nation

1) Israel is exercising its right to self-defense.

As the occupying power of the Gaza Strip, and the Palestinian Territories more broadly, Israel has an obligation and a duty to protect the civilians under its occupation. It governs by military and law enforcement authority to maintain order, protect itself and protect the civilian population under its occupation. It cannot simultaneously occupy the territory, thus usurping the self-governing powers that would otherwise belong to Palestinians, and declare war upon them. These contradictory policies (occupying a land and then declaring war on it) make the Palestinian population doubly vulnerable.

2) Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005.

Israel argues that its occupation of the Gaza Strip ended with the unilateral withdrawal of its settler population in 2005. It then declared the Gaza Strip to be “hostile territory” and declared war against its population. Neither the argument nor the statement is tenable. Despite removing 8,000 settlers and the military infrastructure that protected their illegal presence, Israel maintained effective control of the Gaza Strip and thus remains the occupying power as defined by Article 47 of the Hague Regulations. To date, Israel maintains control of the territory’s air space, territorial waters, electromagnetic sphere, population registry and the movement of all goods and people.

3) This Israeli operation, among others, was caused by rocket fire from Gaza.

Israel claims that its current and past wars against the Palestinian population in Gaza have been in response to rocket fire. Empirical evidence from 2008, 2012 and 2014 refute that claim. First, according to Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the greatest reduction of rocket fire came through diplomatic rather than military means. This chart demonstrates the correlation between Israel’s military attacks upon the Gaza Strip and Hamas militant activity. Hamas rocket fire increases in response to Israeli military attacks and decreases in direct correlation to them. Cease-fires have brought the greatest security to the region.

During the four months of the Egyptian-negotiated cease-fire in 2008, Palestinian militants reduced the number of rockets to zero or single digits from the Gaza Strip. Despite this relative security and calm, Israel broke the cease-fire to begin the notorious aerial and ground offensive that killed 1,400 Palestinians in twenty-two days. In November 2012, Israel’s extrajudicial assassination of Ahmad Jabari, the chief of Hamas’s military wing in Gaza, while he was reviewing terms for a diplomatic solution, again broke the cease-fire that precipitated the eight-day aerial offensive that killed 132 Palestinians.

[malaise]

1. Good read

Rec

[Swede Atlanta]

2. Excellent read.......

In this conflict neither Israel nor Hamas/Palestinians are innocent. There is plenty of blame to go around if we had access to all of the facts, not the political spin but the actual facts.

That said, despite Israel's spin, they are using disproportionate force to quell the rocket fire from Gaza into Israel. There are certainly less violent and deadly methods of finding weapons' caches, tunnels, etc. than simply bombing the strip out of existence.

By controlling all human movement in the strip they have effectively corralled the Palestinians into a 'barrel' and their use of sophisticated bombs and other armaments amounts to nothing more than the proverbial 'shooting fish in a barrel'. The Palestinians have no where to go.

So any moral high ground Israel may have thought they had is gone. I for one have long thought about a trip to the Holy Land but now I would never set foot in Israel in this lifetime. I am checking for any products/services I purchase or use that may be from Israeli manufacturers or providers and eliminating them.

[eridani]

17. Hamas is certainly not innocent

However, their attacks on Israel are as much a threat as kids kicking the back of the driver's seat because they are going to Aunt Em's in Kansas instead of Disneyland. Totally powerless to get their way, they use the tactics of the powerless to make the ones with power enjoy themselves less.

They can't stop Israel from conquering Gaza--all they can do is make the fruits of conquest less enjoyable.

[Roy Serohz]

49. Truth

No one is innocent, but the balance of power counts!

[JDPriestly]

55. I will say it again.

Wars end in one of three ways: 1) a negotiated settlement between two sides with one side getting somewhat more than it wants but not crushing the other side; 2) a stalemate (usually meaning more war eventually); 3) one side conquers the other (think WWII).

Palestine has or is in the process of being conquered. It is one way to end a war. Palestine would be wise to make a very good offer to Israel.

I have watched this situation since 1952. I remember so many Palestinian terrorist attacks and wars begun by Palestinians and their former allies. It's time to settle the situation.

Neither side is free from fault.

A negotiated settlement would be the best. Palestinians could trade a guarantee of peace, enforcing peace against their own extremists for what they want, land, assistance, etc.

That is the reality. It may not be "fair" but life is not fair. Israel exists and is determined to remain in existence. Palestinians are not well enough organized and do not have the material means or support to "win" justice through violence. So they need to win justice or as close to justice as they can get at the negotiating table. That means helping to guarantee that Israel can live within agreed borders in peace. That is how Palestinians can also get the right to live in peace. The Palestinians still have time to negotiate, but they have to understand the reality of their situation. I think it is very sad that things have come to this point.

Divorce is not an option for Palestinians and Israelis. Both sides need to admit that to themselves. They both are going to exist for a long time.

[regnaD kciN]

64. That's assuming Israel WANTS a negotiated peace...

If that were true, they had a golden opportunity over the last decade, with the extremely-moderate Abbas in charge of the P.A. Instead, they made no effort in that direction.

Israel rejects a two-state solution, and wants no part of a one-state solution (which would require giving the people of the occupied territories Israeli citizenship and the right to vote), because it would cease to be a Jewish-dominated state.

What Israel wants is a perpetuation of the status quo -- where they possess the land and its resources, but where Palestinians are kept as a captive people without political rights, useful as slave-labor when needed, and otherwise imprisoned behind walls and left to starve.

[JDPriestly]

68. Here is a list of Palestinian terrorist acts from 1989-2008.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks

Be prepared. It's long.

There was a truce in 2008, but it was uneasy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_ceasefire

Palesinians do not have frree access to the world. They continue to fire off rockets when they feel angry. The Israelis feel unsafe and angry. Both sides need peace but neither side trusts the other enough to stop fighting.

They have to negotiate a slow, incremental peace. They have to agree on tiny steps they will take and set up a commission with representatives from different factions in each country to monitor compliance.

For one thing, you have to get rid of the influence of the internal political rivalries both in Palestine and Israel with regard to the execution of border protection and the military actions on both sides in order to insure a peace.

The problem is that there is no trust, and neither side sees the other as human and deserving to live in peace. The incentive of revenge needs to be dismantled on both sides.

If you have ever raised children, you are familiar with the syndrome: "He hit me." "No, he hit me first."

Palestine refused to accept the existence of Israel and tried to get rid of Israel through military means. It lost repeatedly. Its allies got tired of the violence, and here we are.

If we could put the most angry citizens on both sides in separate corners, we might be able to get peace. But how to do that?

The problem need more than just condemning one or the other side. They both need to learn to live in peace with each other, regardless of who started this round of killing.

Who started it depends on how far back you go.

Palestine bears more of the burden of stopping the violence because it has less control over those who are violent. Israel can easily order its troops back because they are well organized and have discipline. Apparently, the Palestinian authorities, it appears to me, cannot control the violent or do not try to control the violence among their people as well as the Israelis can and do. It is a matter of civil and military organization. It seems that Palestine is not nearly as well organized in terms of government, does not have the civic traditions, as Israel is and has.

[delphi72]

4. So....

I guess you are saying that there are no missiles being fired into Israel and Hamas is not a terrorist organization who's leadership and members stand in perpetuity as potential targets for termination (based upon their actions).

Gotcha.

[leftynyc]

9. Don't expect an answer

Hamas - a terrorist organization - tells the truth about everything and Israel never tells the truth about anything - according to DU. And people want to know why the far left (which is what DU is) is discounted and ignored.

[eridani]

19. The people Hamas kills are Israeli soldiers

The people IDF kills are civilians. Racists always discount critics of racism.

[leftynyc]

24. Why are you pretending

hamas just came into being? Are you denying they're a terrorist organization?

[PDJane]

27. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter....depending on who holds the power.

Personally, I think the state of Israel is a terrorist power, too.

[leftynyc]

36. Here's what your freedom

fighters have been up to and this is just up till 2010.


September 1, 2010: Two Israelis were wounded, one seriously, when Hamas terrorists ambushed their car as as the couple was driving near Kochav Hashachar.

August 31, 2010: Four Israelis, including a pregnant woman, were murdered when terrorists ambushed their car as they were driving near Kiryat Arba in the West Bank. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack, which coincided with the restarting of Israeli-Palestinian peace talks.

August 28, 2005: A suicide bombing outside the Central Bus Station in Beersheba severly injured two security guards who stopped the bomber from entering the bus station.

January 13, 2005: Six Israelis were killed and five other civilians were wounded in a double suicide bombing at the Karni crossing between Israel and the Gaza Strip. The two suicide bombers used a very large explosive device to blast through a defensive wall that separates the Israeli and Palestinian sides at the crossing. Following the blast, the bombers crossed into the Israeli side, carrying explosives on their bodies, which they detonated.

August 28, 2004: Sixteen people, including a 3 year old, were killed and about 100 injured when two buses in Beersheba were attacked within minutes of each other by suicide bombers.

June 28, 2004: A Kassam rocket fired by Hamas terrorists in the Gaza Strip struck near a nursery school in the northern Negev town of Sderot, killing an Israeli man and a 4-year old Israeli child.

April 17, 2004: A border policeman was killed and three others wounded when a Palestinian suicide bomber blew himself up at the Erez Crossing in Gaza.

March 14, 2004: Ten people were killed and 16 wounded in a double suicide bombing in the area of the Ashdod Port. Hamas and Fatah claimed responsibility for the attack.

January 14, 2004: A female suicide bomber killed four people and wounded 20 at the Erez Crossing in the Gaza Strip. Hamas and the Fatah Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades claimed responsibility for the attack.

October 15, 2003: Three Americans were killed and one wounded at the Beit Hanoun junction in the Gaza Strip when a massive bomb demolished an armor-plated jeep in a convoy carrying U.S. diplomats and CIA personnel. Both the militant Islamic Jihad and Hamas movements denied responsibility for the attack.

September 9, 2003: Hamas claimed responsibility for two suicide bombings, the first at an entrance to the Tzrifin army base near Rishon Lezion and the second at Café Hillel in the German colony neighborhood of Jerusalem, which killed a total of 15 people and wounded at least 80.

August 19, 2003: Hamas and Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the suicide bombing of a bus in Jerusalem killing at least 18 people and wounding nearly 100.

August 12, 2003: Suicide bombers killed two Israelis and wounded more than a dozen people in two attacks within a half hour of each other, one at a shopping mall in the Tel Aviv suburb of Rosh Ha'ayin and the other at the entrance of the West Bank town of Ariel. The Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade claimed responsibility for the Rosh Ha'ayin bombing and Hamas claimed to have carried out the Ariel attack.

June 20, 2003: An Israeli motorist was shot dead and three of his passengers were wounded when their car was fired upon by Palestinian terrorists near Ofra, north of Ramallah. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

June 11, 2003: Sixteen people were killed and more than 80 wounded when a suicide bomber blew up a Jerusalem city bus during the afternoon rush hour. The bomber was disguised as an ultra-orthodox Jew. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

May 19, 2003: A Palestinian suicide bomber on a bicycle attacked an Israeli checkpoint on the Gaza Strip, wounding three Israeli soldiers. Hamas claimed responsibility.

May 18, 2003: Seven people were killed and more than 20 wounded when a suicide bomber blew up a Jerusalem city bus at the start of the Israeli work week. The bomber was disguised as an ultra-orthodox Jew. Soon after, a suicide bomber carrying explosives and dressed in the garb of an ultra-orthodox Jew was stopped at a roadblock. The Palestinian detonated his explosives, killing only himself. Hamas claimed responsibility in both attacks.

May 17, 2003: A pregnant Israeli woman and her husband were killed when a suicide bomber detonated himself next to them in a public square in Hebron. Hamas claimed responsibility.

April 30, 2003: Three people were killed and dozens wounded in a suicide bombing at a beachfront pub in Tel Aviv. The Fatah Tanzim and Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack, carried out as a joint operation.

March 7, 2003: Two Israelis were killed and five were wounded when armed terrorists infiltrated the community of Kiryat Arba and attacked during Shabbat. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

March 5, 2003: Sixteen people were killed and more than 30 wounded when a terrorist detonated a powerful bomb on a bus en route to Haifa University. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

January 5, 2003: Twenty two people were killed and about 120 wounded in a double suicide bombing near the old Central Bus Station in Tel Aviv. The Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, Islamic Jihad and Hamas all claimed responsibility for the attacks.

November 21, 2002: Eleven people were killed and 47 injured when a Palestinian suicide bomber exploded on a bus filled with passengers, including schoolchildren, in the Kiryat Menahem neighborhood in Jerusalem. The bus was traveling toward the center of the city during the morning rush hour. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

October 27, 2002: Two Israeli police officers and a soldier were killed, and 20 bystanders were wounded in a suicide bombing at a gas station near the settlement of Ariel in the West Bank. The two officers and soldier were killed while trying to prevent the terrorist from detonating the bomb. Hamas and the Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades claimed responsibility for the attack.

September 19, 2002: Six people were killed and 60 wounded when a terrorist detonated a bomb on one of Tel Aviv's busiest streets, in a bus opposite the Great Synagogue. Many of the wounded were in critical or serious condition. Both Islamic Jihad and Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

August 4, 2002: Nine people were killed and about 50 wounded in a suicide bombing of an Egged bus at the Meron junction in northern Israel. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

July 3, 2002: Eight people were killed and 86 injured, 14 seriously, when a bomb went off at the Frank Sinatra Cafeteria on the Hebrew University Mt. Scopus campus during the busy lunchtime rush. Israeli authorities reported that the explosive device had been planted ahead of time, with the terrorist possibly detonating it by remote control. Five Americans were among the dead. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

June 18, 2002: Nineteen people were killed and more than 70 were injured, in a suicide bombing on a bus just outside of Jerusalem. The bus, which was completely destroyed, was traveling from Gilo to Jerusalem and had many students on board. In addition to the bus, at least two other vehicles were severely damaged in the attack. Hamas claimed responsibility.

June 8, 2002: Three Israelis, including a pregnant woman, were killed, and five were injured when an armed terrorist inflitrated the community of Carmei Tzur, south of Jerusalem. Hamas claimed responsiblity for the attack.

May 19, 2002: Three Israelis were killed and more than 50 injured in a suicide bombing at an open-air market in Netanya. A Palestinian disguised as an Israeli soldier carried out the attack. Both Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine claimed responsibility. Two of the victims were identified as Yosef Haviv, 70 and Arkadi Wiselman, 40, both of Netanya. Wiselman, a chef at the Park Hotel, survived the Passover bombing on March 27.

April 27, 2002: Three Palestinian gunmen disguised as Israeli Army soldiers cut through the perimeter fence of Adora, a settlement on the West Bank, and entered several homes, firing on residents in their bedrooms. Four people, including a 5-year-old girl, were killed in the attacks. Another seven were injured, including one seriously. Both Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine claimed responsibility.

March 31, 2002: Fourteen people were killed and more than 40 injured in a suicide bombing in Haifa, in the Matza gas station restaurant near a shopping mall. Several of the injured were in serious to critical condition. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

March 27, 2002: Twenty-two people were killed and 140 injured - 20 seriously - in a suicide bombing at the Park Hotel in the coastal city of Netanya, in the midst of the Passover holiday seder with 250 guests. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

March 19, 2002: 1st Lt. Tal Zemach, 20, of Kibbutz Hulda, was killed and three soldiers were injured when Palestinian terrorists opened fire at the paratroop training compound in the Jordan Valley. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

March 9, 2002: Eleven people were killed and 54 injured, 10 of them seriously, when a suicide bomber exploded at in a crowded cafe at the corner of Aza and Ben-Maimon streets in the Rehavia neighborhood in the center of Jerusalem. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

March 7, 2002: Aharon Krogliak of Beit El, Tal Kurtzweil of Bnei Brak, Asher Marcus of Jerusalem, Eran Pikar of Jerusalem, and Ariel Zana of Jerusalem, all aged 18, were killed and 23 people were injured, four seriously, when a Palestinian gunman penetrated a highschool that combines religious studies and military training in the Gush Katif settlement of Atzmona late Thursday night. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

March 5, 2002: Palestinians fired two Kassam II rockets at the city of Sderot shortly before 18:00 PM on Tuesday. One of the rockets hit a residential building, moderately wounding a 16-month-old infant. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

February 10, 2002: A drive-by terrorist shooting at the entrance to the IDF Southern Command base in Be'er Sheva killed two female soldiers and injured four others. One of the Palestinian terrorists was killed at the scene; the second, wearing an explosives belt, fled in the direction of a nearby school when he was shot and killed by a soldier and police officer. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

December 2, 2001: A suicide bombing on a No. 16 Egged bus in Haifa killed 15 people and injured about 40 people. Hamas claimed responsibility for the Haifa blast, while Hizbullah's radio and television stations expressed support for the attacks.

December 1, 2001: A double suicide bombing at the Ben-Yehuda pedestrian mall in Jerusalem at 11:30 p.m. on a Saturday night killed 11 people, aged 12-21, and injured 188 people. A car bomb exploded 20 minutes later. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

[PDJane]

40. And Israel, during that time, has been killing and injuring Gaza's children.

Last edited Wed Jul 30, 2014, 08:30 PM - Edit history (1)

1 every thiree days for the past 14 years. And frankly, they have control of water, air, and land......and have been restricting food and goods getting to Gaza.

There is no difference in the two sides except the balance of power resides with the Israelis, and the Israelis kill more people.

[leftynyc]

51. Since when did body counts

become the barometer to being right? Israel has better weapons and better defense so that automatically makes them the villain? Is that really the barometer you wish to use?

[eridani]

46. 330 dead in nine years, or 37 people per year

406 civilians in Gaza in three weeks, or 7037 per year. That makes about 190 untermenschen worth one real person.

[leftynyc]

52. Using the language of nazis

How predictable.

[eridani]

54. By the numbers, Nazis were worse

One assassination and 445 killed in reprisal. That does indeed beat out the Israeli 15 to 1 by quite a bit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidice



25 Israeli soldiers

2 Israeli civilians

0.08 civilians for every soldier

86 armed Palestinian militants

406 Gaza civilians

4.7 civilians for every soldier

[leftynyc]

57. HOw much did it pain you

to admit the nazis were worse? I wasn't aware that body counts made one side more right than the other.

[eridani]

59. The size of the body counts is an excellent measure of evil, IMO n/t

[leftynyc]

61. That's pretty simpleminded thinking

When I saw this story, I wondered how someone like you would defend this doctor. I'm sure you'll find a way.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.608220



A Belgian physician who refused to treat a Jewish woman with a fractured rib suggested she visit Gaza to get rid of the pain.

The physician made the remark on Wednesday while manning a medical hotline in Flanders, Belgium’s Flemish region, whose capital, Antwerp, has a sizeable Orthodox Jewish population, the local Jewish monthly Joods Actueel reported Thursday.

The woman, Bertha Klein, had her son, who is American, call the hotline at 11 p.m.

“I’m not coming,” the doctor reportedly told the son and hung up. When the son called again, the doctor said: “Send her to Gaza for a few hours, then she’ll get rid of the pain.” According to Joods Actueel, the doctor confirmed the exchange, saying he had an “emotional reaction.”

[Fantastic Anarchist]

11. I say no to your straw man. n/t

[eridani]

13. You mean to say that Tinker Toys are being fired into Israel

2000 Tinker Toys = 1 casualty.

[leftynyc]

25. Are you willing to volunteer

to stand underneath one of those tinker toys?

[eridani]

45. Vastly preferable to being in a hospital in Gaza n/t

[eridani]

48. Israelis are volunteering for just that

http://rinf.com/alt-news/war-terrorism/israelis-cheer-whoop-whistle-bombs-rain-palestinians-gaza/

Israelis watch from hilltop being “entertained” as Palestinian’s in Gaza are bombed by the IDF, Israeli Defense Force

It’s been hard following the horrific Israeli assault on Gaza and then I came across this account from Harriet Sherwood entitled “Israeli’s Gather on Hillsides to Watch and Cheer as Military Drops Bombs on Gaza” published in the ICH, Information Clearing House, July20, 2014. It grabbed my attention.


This is traditional--it happened in 2009 as well. They certainly don't seem to be afraid of all these "rockets," do they?

Israelis Picnic On Israel/Gaza Border To view Action.

http://item.liveleak.com/2/view?i=b3d_1231628428&comments=1&use_old_player=1

[leftynyc]

50. Spare me

I see people who are on the border of gaza who are watching what's going on. Saying they're being entertained is just a twisted reflection of what's actually going on. I notice you have no desire to stand underneath those tinker toys - as you call them. Can't blame you as you know very well they're deadly. But your habit of continually downplaying the dangers to Israeli's has become very predictable.

[eridani]

53. If they were all that deadly, Israelis would not be picnicing on the border.

Sure they pose some risk, but so do kids kicking the back of the driver's seat in a car.

[leftynyc]

58. Rockets raining from the sky

being compared to kicking the back of a chair. Well, I've finally heard the most disgusting downplaying of the danger Israel faces I've ever witnessed. And now I'm done with you.

[eridani]

60. 2000 rockets and one casualty?

That's about as impotent and powerless as chlldren get.

[leftynyc]

62. Continually downplaying the danger

Israel faces is precisely one of reasons why the far left has absolutely zero power in this country. When you want to defend the leaders of Gaza - a terrorist organizaiton - you pretty much marginalize yourselves.

[frylock]

20. i didn't see that anywhere in the OP..

so.... I guess what your saying is that you're cool with the wholesale slaughter of children that never cast a vote for Hamas.

Gotcha.

[Maedhros]

29. It's best to ignore Israeli propaganda.

/ignore list.

[Scootaloo]

37. "I guess you are saying" - clear indication of invented bullshit in the next sentence

Maybe respond to what is actually said, instead of the make-believe conversation you'd rather be having.

[SCVDem]

5. Whenever the holocaust is memorialized

There is an phrase which is oft used.

NEVER AGAIN!

I guess what the true meaning of that is, Never again, TO US!

Israel seems perfectly fine in pushing the Final Solution on the Palestinians.

It is time to get the US out of funding another genocide.

I refuse to have my tax dollars causing the extinction of a group for no good reason.

Religion is NOT a good reason!

[Moostache]

6. SCOTUS disagrees about the religion part anyway...

I happen to agree with you 100%.
Abandon Israel to their fate...if they believe being a belligerent bully in a region they are a distinct minority is a good long range plan for peace and prosperity, then good luck with that...but do it WITHOUT US aid, money and weaponry....

[Rhinodawg]

7. Final solution to the Palestinians ?

How much does that innuendo disgust me?

Considering Hamas has openly stated their desire to wipe Israel off the map , you have unusual views.

[eridani]

14. I'm openly stating my desire to date Robert Redford n/t

[Rhinodawg]

16. Thx.

Why bother.

[riverwalker]

28. it's Gaza being "wiped off the map"

and besides where did they actually say that? I've read they've said they don't want Israel to exist as the current occupation, but this "wipe off the map" business is thrown around but never seen the actual quote.

[Larkspur]

30. History has shown that when the persecuted take control of the state, they become...

the next generation of persecutors and are often worse than those that persecuted them.

Israelis are making the same mistake Roman Christians did after Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire.
Power corrupts and Israel has been corrupted by it.

[stranger81]

43. So are the views of this guy unusual? Or widely shared in Israel?

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/15326

Because what he's suggesting -- a Deputy Speaker of the Knesset -- is ethnic cleansing, in no uncertain terms.

[stranger81]

44. Not innuendo -- it's what officials in the Israeli government are openly calling for.

Like this guy, Deputy Speaker of the Knesset:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/15326

[LTX]

8. Posts like this have not only become perfectly acceptable now, they are applauded.

It is indicative of a moral rot in the progressive soul. While you should be ashamed of yourself, I'm reasonably certain you actually feel no shame at all.

[leftynyc]

10. And it's why

the far left has marginalized themselves into oblivion. Nobody in power gives them a second thought and this is one example why.

[Rhinodawg]

15. ^^^^^ this

.

[eridani]

18. Contending with the racism of the majority is always going to be a problem n/t

[leftynyc]

26. So now everyone who

doesn't share your high view of the terrorist hamas are racists? Disgusting.

[stranger81]

42. There can be no serious dispute that much of the Israeli propaganda in this campaign

is motivated by racism. The argument that Palestinians have no concern for their own children or their own dead, for instance, and are motivated only by inexplicable bloodlust is a racist argument that assumes Palestinians are not reacting as any other human would to incredibly dehumanizing circumstances over many generations. It assumes they are subhuman.

[Scootaloo]

38. Ah yes, the "far left."

Where have I heard that one before...

[ChairmanAgnostic]

21. It is posts like yours that make Israeli supporters look dense and

Willfully ignorant.

[stranger81]

41. The moral rot in the progressive soul is the rot that allows so-called progressives

to tolerate -- and in some cases, even celebrate -- the deaths of unarmed civilians (many of them children) with no ability to flee. A war that kills more than 80% civilians should be anathema to any genuine progressive, no matter what their national origin.

[regnaD kciN]

65. The only people who should be ashamed...

...are those who cheer the massacre of children.

Oh, right, I forgot. Palestinians aren't really human -- they're just Ay-rabs. Right?

[delphi72]

12. Really....

You people need to drop this "genocide" crap. For such a technologically advanced nation, Israel seems pretty bumbling if they intend to exterminate the Palestinians. They've had...how many years?...and still haven't done that? Credibility is important here and anytime someone brings up this canard of "genocide" against the Palestinians, you just look more foolish.

[frylock]

22. as opposed to how many years that Palestine has had to wipe Israel off the map?

[delphi72]

23. Since 1947?

Not only "Palestine&quot even though there has never been a "nation" of "Palestine&quot , but Egypt, Transjordan/Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq? They have all tried - sudden wars, sneak attacks, multi-front wars, they just can't seem to get 'er done, those Arab nations.

[PDJane]

33. That's another part of the Myth of Israel...that plucky little nation against all those Arabs.

The nation of Palestine didn't become a country because Great Britain was planning to put the Jewish Problem there, assuming that the Palestinians would be treated as citizens. The only reason for the separation and the creation of Israel was terrorism and retailiation....and most of the terrorism was Jewish. They felt, and it seems correctly, that if they showed that Arab and Jews couldn't live together, the international community would give Palestine to the Jews, regardless of the Arab population.

The wars since have been simply to remove the Palestinians from more territory. I suspect that the next move will be to annex the West Bank in its entirety, and create a truly apartheid state.

[atreides1]

32. What would you call it?

Genocide
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.


Nothing in there about how much time it has to take!

[MrNJ]

31. If Israel was the kind of country that wanted to exterminate the population of Gaza

they could do it before lunch.

The fact that they don't, the fact that they go out of their way trying (not always succeeding) to avoid civilian deaths proves you completely wrong.
Too bad we have too many "blame Israel first" folks here.

[atreides1]

34. Too bad

We have so many that keep equating being Palestinian with being a member of Hamas!

Israel won't do it, that quickly...they do it slowly in the hope that those they don't kill, will leave!

[NM_Birder]

39. You should read about the split of authority in Palestine.

Hamas claimed 76 of the 132 Parliamentary Seats in 2006.
If 1/2 of a population elects a governing body, would you not agree that the governing body is representative of the people's choice ?

[countryjake]

47. Why Hamas Won Gaza - Bill Clinton

The Gaza Bombshell by David Rose April 2008

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaza200804

After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.


Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and President George W. Bush, whose secret Palestinian intervention backfired in a big way. Photo illustration by Chris Mueller; left, by Debbie Hill/Sipa Press; right, by Issam Rimawi/ApaImages/Polaris; background by Ibraheem Abu Mustafa/Reuters/Corbis.

The Al Deira Hotel, in Gaza City, is a haven of calm in a land beset by poverty, fear, and violence. In the middle of December 2007, I sit in the hotel’s airy restaurant, its windows open to the Mediterranean, and listen to a slight, bearded man named Mazen Asad abu Dan describe the suffering he endured 11 months before at the hands of his fellow Palestinians. Abu Dan, 28, is a member of Hamas, the Iranian-backed Islamist organization that has been designated a terrorist group by the United States, but I have a good reason for taking him at his word:
I’ve seen the video.

It shows abu Dan kneeling, his hands bound behind his back, and screaming as his captors pummel him with a black iron rod. “I lost all the skin on my back from the beatings,” he says. “Instead of medicine, they poured perfume on my wounds. It felt as if they had taken a sword to my injuries.”

On January 26, 2007, abu Dan, a student at the Islamic University of Gaza, had gone to a local cemetery with his father and five others to erect a headstone for his grandmother. When they arrived, however, they found themselves surrounded by 30 armed men from Hamas’s rival, Fatah, the party of Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas. “They took us to a house in north Gaza,” abu Dan says. “They covered our eyes and took us to a room on the sixth floor.”

The video reveals a bare room with white walls and a black-and-white tiled floor, where abu Dan’s father is forced to sit and listen to his son’s shrieks of pain. Afterward, abu Dan says, he and two of the others were driven to a market square. “They told us they were going to kill us. They made us sit on the ground.” He rolls up the legs of his trousers to display the circular scars that are evidence of what happened next: “They shot our knees and feet—five bullets each. I spent four months in a wheelchair.”

Abu Dan had no way of knowing it, but his tormentors had a secret ally: the administration of President George W. Bush...

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[regnaD kciN]

66. By that standard...

...each of us, in the world's eyes, should be worthy of death because Bush was "the people's choice." As is the current Congress.

[NM_Birder]

67. The world seems incapable of solving any problem without US involvement

Every problem the word has ...... lands at the doorstep of The United States, we are the root cause AND the necessary solution to all the worlds problems, ........."in the world's eyes".

So I've come to the conclusion that until the world stops relying on The United States, then blaming The United States, then back to relying on The United States ............... fuck em'

[PDJane]

35. That has to do with international opinion, not Israel's abilities or proclivities.

[joshcryer]

56. Tiresome.

3 is just silly. Saying that Israel "provoked Hamas" to start shooting 100 rockets a day. Also, each cease fire happened after Israel went on the offensive and killed hundreds of Palestinians. Saying "cease fires" are the reason for the decrease in rocket fire is just nonsense. Especially when one of the "cease fires broken by Israel" was in response to Hamas firing on Israeli military (ie, Hamas broke it, not Israel).

[eridani]

63. That's not what the chart at the link says n/t