To Hillary or not to Hillary...What is most important issue of ALL? Voting Rights, I say...

[randys1]

I dont know if this is the correct forum, I hope it is, for this discussion, because I think it is important .

I wanted to express two thoughts here, first, what is the most important political issue of modern day America?

I say it is voting rights because when you lose those, you have no issues to debate anymore, because you are not part of the debate.

So lets marry these two thoughts; the first one is you must protect the vote and yet right now in NC and other rightwing states we know for a fact MANY minorities, students and the elderly will NOT be permitted to vote due to unconstitutional ID laws and overt attempts to make it harder in certain areas than others to vote such as placing polling locations way out in the middle of nowhere without public transportation or parking.

Now, while we work to help others get to the polls, because the STAKES ARE SO HIGH, right?

Wait, stop there, some of us, myself included, are working quite hard both on the ground and in social media

https://twitter.com/DidTheyLetUVote


to make sure as many people as possible will vote.

YET, some of the very people we ASSUME will vote and will vote for the least amount of harm, i.e. str8t dem ticket to limit harm from the insane assholes on the right, some of these people have assured us they will NOT vote Democratic if Hillary is the nominee.

So my job and some of yours just got that much harder, didnt it.

I AM NOT A FAN OF HILLARY CLINTON! I am not a fan of lamb chops either, but if I had to choose between fully cooked and USDA inspected lamb chops and rancid hamburger meat that has been left out to rot for a week under a garbage can behind a restaurant, I would choose the lamb chops.


So, lambchops or rancid hamburger meat, is the first question, and WHAT can YOU/I be doing that we are not doing to see to it that the targeted groups in your local town are able to get out and vote?

[Scuba]

1. So, vote for the neocon to avoid getting a worse neocon?

Can't we get a progressive candidate, or did the DLC/Third Way kill that option entirely?

[PowerToThePeople]

2. Rat poison or rotting meat? n/t

[randys1]

4. I like you, have watched your posts, tell me what do you accomplish

by risking putting someone like Rick Perry or Rand Paul or Mike Huckabee in the Oval office?

[JaydenD]

5. There are a lot of us that think that if it isn't Hillary

that doesn't mean it's going to be a Paul or Perry or Huck.

There are other democrats than can win against those feebles and putting all the eggs in Clinton's basket is not helpful at all. It is harmful.

[randys1]

6. Oh hell yes, Bernie or Elizabeth or Alan Grayson (my personal preference)

but my point is about IF we are down to Hillary vs any repub

I know there are liberals and Democrats who will NOT vote for her no matter what, and that is what I am struggling with

[JaydenD]

8. That's probably the case in most elections - you can't win them all.

The Party Unities My Asses were very upset Clinton didn't win and some of them begrudged Obama a vote because their personal anger took over practicality. I personally don't think that Hillary Clinton is left enough for this point in history where she can take the hard work that has been done in so many areas these last few years and run with it to make them even better - for example the ACA. I don't think she is the one to do that, and we must have someone who is willing to do that. But even though my doubts are very high as to Clinton's true nature and who she serves, there is absolutely no doubt that a Perry or a Paul would really set things in motion to go backwards at lightspeed. I hope the choice isn't going to be so dismal.

[PowerToThePeople]

9. Thank you for the compliment

I am to the point that maybe what is needed to fix this county is the fast path to hell that is a full blown fascist theocracy being pushed onto the public. Currently we get just enough sugar to hide the taste of the poison that is slowly (or not so slowly any more) killing us.

I wish there was a good answer. A constitutional amendment overturning Citizens United and an implementation of public election financing is really the only path out I can see other than revolution.

[randys1]

11. ACtually I have been saying for a few years now that maybe we need to just let the idiots have

their way, that within months, wont even take years. they will all be on their knees begging us, the adults, to bail them out.

When their water kills their dog first then their son or daughter, when their road falls apart completely since Walmart doesnt need it to transport goods, when their workplace becomes so unsafe, the hours so long, the pay so low, that their coworkers start dying from workplace injuries, heart attacks from stress, etc.

Then they will beg us.

When their elderly father is killed in an airplane crash, and now that there are no TORT payments in court and they cant sue the airline who knowingly allowed unsafe planes to fly because one crash was cheaper than fixing the planes, etc.

When the police routinely round up and arrest anyone not wealthy walking or driving around in the wrong areas, at which time they will first realize that the Koch bros do NOT consider them in the "club", etc.

But, I have been warned that the pain for the rest of us will be so bad we cant risk it.

[samsingh]

3. Mine would be

1. voting rights
2. broad based healthcare
3. replacing the repug supremes when they retire

[randys1]

17. Do the Hillary bashers realize she wanted healthcare reform too? She wasnt the first

but she was for it before Obama was even in office.

[conservaphobe]

7. Clinton criticism is overstated

Most Democrats will be overjoyed to have the Clintons back.

The rest will always find a reason to dislike and distrust a President.

Looking at the world through an idealistic lens might work for creating art, but the world is complex and requires an unobstructed view of reality.

[randys1]

10. Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, create such a stark contrast to W and Dick

that it is hard not to welcome someone who in comparison to the alternative is a literal breath of fresh air.

But none of these 3 are my idea of liberals, at all.

I worked for the Obama campaign and would again, will work on Hillary's if I am able, if it comes down to her.

[Chan790]

12. I disagree. It's economic issues.

Voting is less than valuable when the choice presented to the proletariat is between the butcher's axe and the butcher's knife. We cannot afford a Clinton win unless HRC is going to repudiate her entire career's worth of economic positions, anti-worker, anti-union, free-trader, Wall-Street-buddy positions.

Otherwise, we have no say through the vote...only the choice of how we want to be slaughtered by the monied interests.

[randys1]

13. So rightwing Supreme Court overruling Roe v Wade, you will accept responsibility

for that?

Overturning the civil rights act?

what else, my brain is slow today

[11 Bravo]

14. Which means SCOTUS, which means that it is fucking imperative that ...

no matter who the Democratic candidate for President may be, they must defeat whomever the Repukes nominate.

[randys1]

15. Yes, I would think someone so liberal they would despise HIllary's record

and I dislike much of her record myself, but how could someone THAT liberal take ANY chance of a rightwing SC any worse than what we have now?

How?

[ieoeja]

16. AMENDMENT XIV. Section 2.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,* and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.


According to this, when they improperly disenfranchised 80,000 voters in Florida in the 2000 election, we should have deleted 80,000 people from the census count when determining how many Representatives and Electors are awarded to Florida.

ACLU or somebody should have brought a suit.

Hopefully when they do this going forward somebody will. Disenfranchise voters and lose Representatives and Electoral votes.

[question everything]

18. Supreme Court. Without which you can forget about other rights

And we need a Democrat in the White House to nominate progressive judges.

And if Hillary has the best chances of winning, even with all the bad press that she has here, than anyone who cares about our rights should vote for her.

[randys1]

19. Yep, and hold your nose if you have to, throw up afterwards too if you feel that strongly

about it, but for KRIST SAKE, you have to vote in a way that doesnt help the terrorists.