"We tortured some "folks"... "?????

[elehhhhna]

fuck me running this ain't America anymore.

Love the downhomey use of "folks".

wow, casual, huh?

[dawg]

1. I'm just glad to hear a U.S. President admit that ...

and actually use the word "torture" to do so.

[elehhhhna]

4. okay you make a great point -thank you

[calimary]

40. Yeah, none of this "extraordinary rendition" and "enhanced interrogation techniques."

Last edited Sat Aug 2, 2014, 01:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Fuck it. Have the balls to call it what it is. And it's TORTURE. PERIOD.

But then again, it's a shame that this minuscule a "victory" should even be considered remarkable - or in any way an improvement.

And still, that's what it is.

That said, you'll NEVER EVER EVER hear bush/cheney or anyone involved say anything like this. They aren't man enough even to use the word. They never admit they did anything wrong. Chris Matthews was talking about it a couple of days ago on "Hardball", actually articulating it - that bush would NEVER admit he'd made a mistake about the Iraq War - as ANY really "great" president WOULD have, once confronted with hard and clear evidence that his original decision was WRONG and NECESSITATED a change of tactics accordingly. And he correctly noted that bush NEVER did that. To this very DAY he's never done that. He can't. He can't afford to - because heaven forbid his lordship ever admit he was wrong! He can't admit he was wrong. He has to perpetuate the illusion. And so does EVERYBODY else around him who had a hand in it and are, themselves, war criminals also. People like contradicta, rummy, cheney, wolfie, dougie feith, scooter libby, and a whole host of others on the extreme imperialistic opportunistic marauder "right". They all know if they EVER admit to this stuff, they'd be subject to the long arm of the law - sooner or later, and they'd have to go into hiding to avoid even the possibility of being arrested and charged. And when you go into hiding, it's kinda hard to get all those five-figure speakers' fees while you're out working the "mashed potato circuit" (as reagan called it - which he got to do ONCE, for a two-million-dollar paycheck in Japan, immediately after he left office, until his Alzheimers became too big an obstacle to be able to sustain, in public, the fairy tales about him anymore).

[dickthegrouch]

65. Thankfully they shouldn't have to admity it now

If the country is really a Nation of Laws, the law enforcers now have an actual accusation, by someone in a position to back it up to start Indicting and Jailing. Even if they are not US-based, someone has the authority to enforce Geneva Conventions.

Even Boner demands that the law be upheld

[krawhitham]

44. It is not the 1st time he has said it was torture

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/1/5960317/obama-has-been-calling-bush-era-interrogations-torture-for-years

In April 2009, just a few months into his presidency, he rebuked former Vice President Dick Cheney's defenses of waterboarding and other Bush interrogation methods by stating outright, "I believe that waterboarding was torture and, whatever legal rationals were used, it was a mistake."

In November 2011, waterboarding came up during the Republican presidential primary, with candidates endorsing the Bush-era practice and competing over who could appear tougher on the issue. Again, Obama did not equivocate on calling it torture.

"They're wrong. Waterboarding is torture," he said at the time. "Anybody who has actually read about and understands the practice of waterboarding would say that that is torture. And that's not something we do -- period."

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/1/5960317/obama-has-been-calling-bush-era-interrogations-torture-for-years

[sabrina 1]

50. Grateful for a small crumb. I'm not, I want the TRUTH in the starkest of terms

when it comes to War Crimes. We didn't just TORTURE 'some folks', we tortured some of those 'folks' to DEATH. We raped women, sodomized children, and our government KNOWS because they viewed the videos and then hid them from the public.

But it does show how beaten down this nation has become when we have to be grateful for such a tiny 'victory'. And that would not have happened had the CIA not been caught spying on Congress. A dozen years later.

[MisterP]

66. praises them as merely-overzealous defenders of the nation, gives them a free pass, and says

we'll do it again

[elehhhhna]

2. before the flames begin

I doubt he has any real control over anything and that the Prez has been a spokesmodel since Reagan.

I know he can 't squirt hot tears and lament the death of our honor. Bad optics.

But tortured some "folks"

Next up, Israel: "We genocided some folks" all homeylike.

[jberryhill]

6. you won't hear any sort of admission of error from Israel

The Israeli government can do no wrong, and there is no limit to anything which they do, because it is entirely the fault of the other side. Therefore there is no wrong and there are no limits.

[DonViejo]

9. Perhaps you need to do some research and learn the

use of the term "folks," e.g., who uses the term and why it is used.

[magical thyme]

18. because everybody tuning in to listen to the President speak

takes the time to research the use of the term "folks" and understand who uses the term and why.

Face it; for the context in which it was used, it was a very poor choice of words. To put it very, very mildly.

As to who was using the term and why, our President was in an attempt to sound like one of the 99% and to diminish the impact of the word "torture" that was buried in the middle of the sentence.

As jberry wrote above, next we'll be writing about how we "genocided some folks."

[calimary]

41. And that's another thing. He uses the word "folks" to refer to teabaggers and other vermin as well.

It's his style of speaking.

I think in some cases he uses the term "folks" to refer to those we ourselves might classify in the "asshole" category.

[JaneyVee]

101. Folks is good considering none were convicted of any crimes.

[jberryhill]

3. I'll take "an admission you'll never hear from a lot of leaders" for $200, Alex

[newfie11]

5. No noone goes to jail

Just it's to bad about the torture.
Sad that we've sunk this low!

[elehhhhna]

7. the architects got medals of FREEDOM from Bushhole

[treestar]

8. Obama uses that word for "people"

It's a tic of his. Nobody's perfect.

[DonViejo]

11. It's a term commonly used by black folk in reference

and instead of the term "people," e.g., "you people are always complaining about something"

[msanthrope]

22. Thank you!!! I find the OP tone deaf. nt

[kath]

31. of course you do.

[handmade34]

12. "It's a tic of his"

his demeaner during the press conference told me what I need to know… disappointed so many are focusing on the word 'folks'…

I absolutely hate what we have become since 9/11… I blame the Bush Administration and their tactics for making us a fearful, suspicious, hateful, vengeful people… what can President Obama do? "we tortured" he said it, it's true and we as a Country need to take responsibility (...do wish individuals would be held responsible)…

so many of us knew all of it was wrong 12 years ago… I hate what we have collectively become

[TwilightGardener]

16. Yeah. Weird how everyone fixates on it, he says "folks" in every speaking

engagement. The use of the word "torture" is far more important.

[msanthrope]

20. Some people forget he was raised by white Midwesterners, and then moved to Chicago.

His speech reflects that.

[rhett o rick]

10. We tortured children. We tortured innocent people to death. And why? Because we were afraid?

Plez!! We did it as conscientious acts of terror. We became what we claimed we were fighting. And now we are going to minimize it. And maybe forgiveness isn't too far away.

[msanthrope]

21. How does the word "folks" minimize that? If anything, the use of the word "folks" indicates

that President Obama sees who we tortured not as the "other."

"Folks" is a colloquialism I would expect from a man raised by white Midwesterners and who later lived in Chicago.

[rhett o rick]

55. What? I didn't say that the word "folks" minimized anything.

I think the expression "We tortured some folks." Is a bit too casual. IMO it minimizes the seriousness of the offenses.

[RufusTFirefly]

47. Mistakes were made. The President gamely admitted it. Case closed. Now let's move on, folks.

What more can you possibly expect from him?
Justice? Come on!
You're not going to get your silly little pony.

Besides, we can be 100 percent certain that nothing nefarious has happened under this administration.
Unlike Comrade Eddie, President O. had the guts to "man up."

[rhett o rick]

56. I see you used the "sarcasm" thing to try to save yourself from

another embarrassing hide. Well I am alerting anywayz just for drill.

[RufusTFirefly]

62. Haha! Touché!

I'm gradually learning to aim a little lower. The halcyon days of nuanced, polysyllabic rants are numbered.

[rhett o rick]

69. I did think it was amazing that someone seemed to be looking out for Manny.

Either that or they like you worse.

[RufusTFirefly]

71. "I welcome their hatred"

"I'll show 'em they can't fiddle around with old Firefly!"



As for Manny, I have a hunch he can take care of himself -- although I do think we need to look out for him!

[rhett o rick]

76. I don't know about Split Personality Manny. He keeps me confused. I think that's his

tactics.

[TDale313]

13. There are valid reasons to criticize the President...

But to me, using the word "folks"? Not really on my list.

[Sunlei]

14. not as 'informal' as your term :)

folk
/fōk/
noun
plural noun: folks
1. informal
people in general.
"some folk will do anything for money"
synonyms: people, individuals, 'men, women, and children', (living) souls, mortals; citizenry, inhabitants, residents, populace, population; formaldenizens
"the local folk"


define "fuck me running"
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=define+%22fuck+me+running%22
869,000 results
1. fuck me running

its a expression of disbelief or amazement.

guy: i caught my dad smoking reefer last night.
girl: well fuck me running!

[AngryOldDem]

15. Bothered me a little, too.

Just a little too informal for what happened. As if using the colloquial instead of "persons" would somehow soften the blow?

But at least he admitted it.

[canoeist52]

17. Whenever I hear the term "folks", my skeptical defenses are activated.

I think, "salesman" and hold on to my wallet.

[msanthrope]

19. Downhomey? What an inartful word. The use of the word "folks" is a colloquialism.

It's pretty commonly used in Chicago, and throughout the Midwest.

This President was raised by Midwesterners who transplanted to Hawaii. A simple google search would have told you that "folks" is a word he commonly uses.

He isn't being casual.

[steve2470]

35. he always uses the word folks, far more than I would (and that's cool)

It's who he is. I'm ok with it. I don't think we can expect him to speak as if he's presenting a case to SCOTUS, when he would say defendants, detainees, etc.

[BrotherIvan]

72. He is an intelligent, very well-educated man

Acting as though he is not and speaks in colloquial terms because he has no choice is offensive. I am a PoC and I do not speak that way in formal situations. Low expectations are a dog whistle. You're not helping.

[msanthrope]

89. You sound concerned. nt

[BrotherIvan]

92. Hypocrisy noted

BTW, your username has always been my favorite. Clever.

[DirkGently]

23. Yes. No one's missing the deliberately casual tone here.

Although I see a few people are trying to pretend otherwise. Obama doesn't make accidental word choices, and "folks" comes out when he'd like to soften the tone. Trying it in juxtaposition to something as irredeemably toxic as torture was colossally disingenuous and landed with an ear-shattering splat.

I don't know why this President continues to think he can or should soft-peddle the war crimes of the previous administration, but it's painful to hear it and always rings hollow.

[bbgrunt]

49. perfectly said.

"Trying it in juxtaposition to something as irredeemably toxic as torture was colossally disingenuous and landed with an ear-shattering splat. "

[JayhawkSD]

24. He said the word "tortured" and he said the word "folks"

and so, of course, we focus on him saying "folks." You have to be kidding me.

This nation signed a United Nations Convention Against Torture, text here, which requires us to take into custody and prosecute any person who commits an act of torture in our nation or territory. Here we have the highest elected official in this nation announcing to the world that persons did, in fact, commit torture and that we will not take them into custody and will not prosecute them for that crime.

He will undoubtedly, as some point in the next few days, say that we are "a nation of laws," which will be a hollow mockery, given that he personally is sheltering persons who have committed acts that are against our laws and which we are required to prosecute under international law.

[onecaliberal]

78. Thank you! That was my point too.

[corkhead]

25. I saw that too and had the exact same reaction

makes it sound like it was done by Barney Fife.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. Are some of the "folks" who did the torturing going to prison? When?

[BrotherIvan]

73. +1

[Lint Head]

27. Was it these folks?

Our just "plain" folks?

?w=500&h=355

[onecaliberal]

28. Let me get this straight...

People here are more upset with the vocabulary that POTUS used to describe treatment of prisoners by the bush administration than they are with the fact that Bushco has not been forced to answer for it.

[DirkGently]

33. That seems a rather bald mischaracterization.

The choice of language is an index to the attitude of this administration toward the crimes of the former. "Stuff happened. Some bad stuff."

Infantilizing and minimizing horrific wrongdoing by THE UNITED STATES is the issue here, not whether Obama is exactly as much to blame for doing that as were those who actually carried it out.

[onecaliberal]

37. He was avoiding using the word people

The "folks" who ordered and carried out the torture ought to be the subject of ire, and the fact there hasn't been a single individual prosecuted for war crimes.

[DirkGently]

38. Right. Avoiding calling those tortured "people."

And that is the problem.

[conservaphobe]

36. Yep. I thinks 'folks' gave the people we did those horrible things to their humanity back.

After years of dehumanizing them.

He could have said: "We tortured some terra-ists" or "enemy combatants."

Not sure why others don't see it that way.

[onecaliberal]

39. ^^^* This

[rhett o rick]

68. You make the point very well. You think that calling the victims "folks" gives them their

humanity back. That's exactly what I am objecting to. We need to do a whole hell of a lot more than calling them "folks". Maybe an apology. Many weren't terrorists but innocent people.

[tularetom]

43. POTUS was the one minimizing the crimes of the Bush administration

And his use of the word "folks" to describe those who were tortured makes it seem that he really isn't very concerned about the torture.

[onecaliberal]

45. He uses the word folks all the time.

That being said, if POTUS was concerned with what Bushco did he would have sent his justice dept after them instead of turning his head. I said the people on DU seemed more concerned about vocabulary than the fact Bushco is still free.

[tularetom]

61. I don't care if he uses it in every sentence

It lends a casual tone to a very serious situation. It's inappropriate to apply it to the torture of human beings. And it makes him sound complicit in Bush administration human rights violations. Or at least like he isn't really bent out of shape over it. Like, "Yeah, we tortured some folks and it was wrong but, hey, shit happens".

[onecaliberal]

77. Uhm, in case you hadn't noticed

He's aware of the torture but isn't prosecuting WTF do you call that?

[tularetom]

79. If you look back a few threads you may notice that I call it complicit

I'm not sure why you seem to want to argue with me about this.

[BumRushDaShow]

29. Here is the result

of using the key word never admitted to by the highest official of the land - "tortured" vs the over-focus on the use of "folks".

http://mediamatters.org/video/2014/08/01/fox-gives-liz-cheney-a-platform-to-attack-obama/200303

RW heads explode.

[progressoid]

30. We've been torturing some folks for decades.

We're just not hiding it anymore.

[BlueMTexpat]

32. It is getting very hard to justify to anyone

that the US actually follows - or even understands - international law.

Or even just common human decency.

Our days as a "role model" of a country that follows the Rule of Law seem to be in their twilight, if not extinguished altogether.

[conservaphobe]

34. President Obama made me proud at that press conference yesterday.

That's the man I voted for.

[Octafish]

42. We tortured some children, too.

It was OK, per John Yoo.

[eShirl]

46. WE TORTURED. why give a fuck if he used the word folks.

[WinkyDink]

60. Because "folks" is a deliberate placement to mitigate the preceding word "torture." Is "why."

[RufusTFirefly]

64. Yes. Torturing "folks" is quaint. Torturing "people" is a war crime.

Changing one simple word automatically makes everything better.

[sadoldgirl]

48. "We tortured some folks

..We did some things that are contrary to our values."
Mind you, not contrary to our laws. Yes, I remember President Reagan:"Mistakes were made." Same thing.

Just play it down,nothing here to get excited about, go back to work. (sarc)

[jberryhill]

51. Yes, we did

As startling an admission as this may be to you, or however much you want the president to deny it, it is true.

[IcyPeas]

52. you know who else always says "folks"

bill o'reilly.

[bobthedrummer]

53. This is one of the outcomes of continuing to follow the policies of war criminals who were covered

when the multimillionaire Democratic (DLC) leadership took impeachment "off the table". They politically constrained Rep. Dennis Kucinich who did, in fact, introduce Articles of Impeachment against both George Walker Bush and Richard Bruce Cheney who authorized the TORTURE of anyone at all...the "folks"......

I voted for YOU twice President Obama-I never TORTURED or even remotely endorsed it. I speak only for myself, not "we". Another result is that I'm now hated all over the world just by being an American citizen. Yep. This is now a fascist coming out party in progress.

[RufusTFirefly]

54. And 79 years ago, we incinerated some folks in Japan

From time to time, America just gets scared and makes a boo boo.
Whoops!

[elehhhhna]

96. And the Iraq Occupation? Another slip up! Fool me once...

[RufusTFirefly]

97. Doh!

We're optimists in Murica! We'll try harder the next time.

[Psephos]

57. And "we" vaporized some folks with drone strikes...

Hand-picked by me in the White House basement with the advice and counsel of John Brennan, our illustrious CIA Director who lied to Congress and spied on Senators.

But the good news is that although we broke international law, murdered innocent people, and violated the Constitutional rights of some US citizens, we didn't torture any of those folks we pink-misted.

[sadoldgirl]

58. Question to you lawyer guys

Would it be too late to prosecute anyone? There is no admission to having killed someone.

Not that I get my hopes up.

[HooptieWagon]

80. Not a lawyer, but here's my take:

I don't think there's a statue of limitations on war crimes or violations of human rights. And although not publicly admitted, I'm fairly certain a few of the tortured "folks" did die as a result of torture... which is probably 2nd degree murder.
I don't think this chapter can be closed until those responsible are prosecuted. Sweeping it under the rug with a "mistakes were made, but we have to look forward" is morally indefensible.

[WinkyDink]

59. I have always viewed the use of "folks" (plural) to be condescension to the max.

[RufusTFirefly]

63. Not to confuse the issue, but...

... I often use "folks" as a superior, gender-neutral alternative to "you guys," as in "Folks, we really need to get organized." That said, I don't think I'd use it in the context of torture. I'm just funny that way.

[Comrade Grumpy]

67. No, Mr. President, "we" didn't torture some folks. You didn't torture some folks.

I didn't torture some folks.

The Bush administration and its CIA thugs tortured some folks. When will the torturers be held accountable?

[Enthusiast]

86. PLUS ONE, a whole bunch!

[elehhhhna]

95. Please make this an OP

Please? Huge point, not in the msm narrative

[L0oniX]

70. It's just some folks torturing some folks. Kinda folkseyish.

[Enthusiast]

87. Obviously that was the intention.

[Blue_In_AK]

74. That particular use of the word "folks" grated on my nerves, as well,

but I'll give the president the benefit of the doubt and assume it's just an idiom he uses. I'd rather he said "people," at least.

[whatchamacallit]

75. Okay, we tortured some folks. Thanks for fessing up. Now what the hell are you going to do about it?

Never mind I already know

[B2G]

81. He makes it sound like we waterboarded the town of Mayberry.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

82. But..but...Andy and Barney did it becasue they were under a "lot of pressure".

[Dragonfli]

94. And the folks that tortured some folks are patriots, lets not forget that /nt

[polynomial]

83. A real game changer

There is nothing funny about the law and torture. It is evil with Nazi tendencies.

But that’s being real, however, to be even more serious a very curious thought occurred to me, that is the Republicans opened the fraud-gates for another razzle dazzle gaming theater with the complicit main stream media in this idea of suing the President for not doing his job.

Here is the perfect chance to use the current denouncement of the Iraq war the momentum of 911 as a wrong war, and to make Bush and Company accountable would fill the definition of turning on their own.

While creating the best game changing tactic, the whole election could turn to their favor to take power all over the place. In other words sue President Obama for not engaging 911 investigations to indict Bush for war crimes. the Democratic Party would lose by a landslide with a platform like that even if it was not carried out.

Talk about a game changer plus a way for the Republicans to get the presidency; then after the election say well didn’t find anything wrong in the investigation with the Iraq war. That’s the plan…then the Democratic Party gets punked again.

[riseabove]

85. BUT HE ADMITTED TO IT!! So that makes everything A OKAY now, haven't you read!??!

[steve2470]

90. not a-ok by a long shot, seriously nt

[treestar]

98. Straw man

Nobody said it was OK. But that it was amazing a US official would admit it.

[steve2470]

88. Come on people, an American president ADMITTED THAT WE TORTURED......

I admit, we can debate other things, but "folks" ? HE ADMITTED ON LIVE TELEVISION IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE WORLD THAT WE TORTURED. Holy shit. Give the guy a break.

/rant over YMMV

[kentuck]

91. Knowing that would be the big story...

instead of the latest act of spying on the Senate Committee that was charged with oversight. The "torture" is old news. The spying on the Senate is a new story. Let's forget one and talk about the other. They are playing us people.

[greatauntoftriplets]

104. Thanks, you get it.

[steve2470]

105. yep, come on, "folks" is the outrage du jour ? GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK, FOLKS ! nt

[greatauntoftriplets]

106. Some folks just don't get it.

It's a term that President Obama has used all along.

[steve2470]

107. He always says that. I'd say "people", but he says folks. BIG FUCKING DEAL nt

[greatauntoftriplets]

108. I say "people", too.

Complaining about this term is picking flyshit out of pepper.

[steve2470]

109. yep you nailed it nt

[questionseverything]

111. he admitted he is covering for war crimes

http://generalstrikeusa.wordpress.com/2014/02/10/30-kinds-of-approved-torture-used-by-the-c-i-a/

[JEB]

93. Talk is talk.

I don't think our country will regain any shred of moral standing until we hold our very own home grown war criminals to account. When do the prosecutions begin? Or do we just say fuck it and stop pretending to be anything other than a criminal nation?

[IrishAyes]

99. Well, obviously some jerkheads need to be reminded that we are dealing with

PEOPLE. Denying the humanity of prisoners is a first step in being able to excuse torturing them. And for those of you who still don't give a damn, let me remind you that torture creates even fiercer hate in one's enemies. How is that good for our overall benefit?

Count yourself lucky it's so late at night that I'm well aware my self control isn't at top form, so this is all I'm going to say for now.

[Jamaal510]

100. Of all the things to

be upset with Obama about, this by far has to be the most absurd I have seen so far, especially when we've got other things going on. Whether or not he uses the word "people" instead of "folks" isn't going to reverse the torture that went on. The important thing here that some are apparently overlooking is that he at least admitted that this country wrongfully used torture. Besides, he talks like that all the time, anyway. His diction isn't even relevant to the topic.

[Gormy Cuss]

102. Politicians should never use "torture" and "folks" in the same sentence.

We tortured people, not "folks."

[BuelahWitch]

103. Amen! n/t

[nolabear]

110. In my Southern culture it's a humanifying term. As in African American culture.

When we say "folks" instead of "people" it's a softening of the reference. I've heard him use the term before and though it might be a deliberate attempt, it's a term usually used inclusively.

[steve2470]

112. I've always been struck by the fact....

that he constantly says FOLKS. Big deal, imho. I would say "people", but that's me. Tempest in a rancid teapot, if you ask me. I am NOT directing my annoyance at you, nolabear, please understand me.

[nolabear]

113. Oh, I get that. It's just a thing. This teapot rocks and rolls sometimes.