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Sun Aug 3, 2014, 03:42 AM

 

U.S. Official: Spy Plane Flees Russian Jet, Radar; Ends Up Over Sweden

Washington (CNN) -- The Cold War aerial games of chicken portrayed in the movie "Top Gun" are happening in real life again nearly 30 years later.

A U.S. Air Force spy plane evaded an encounter with the Russian military on July 18, just a day after Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was downed by a suspected surface-to-air missile that Ukraine and the West allege was fired by pro-Russia rebels in eastern Ukraine.

The RC-135 Rivet Joint fled into nearby Swedish airspace without that country's permission, a U.S. military official told CNN. The airplane may have gone through other countries' airspace as well, though it's not clear if it had permission to do so.

The U.S. plane had been flying in international airspace, conducting an electronic eavesdropping mission on the Russian military, when the Russians took the unusual action of beginning to track it with land-based radar.

The Russians then sent at least one fighter jet into the sky to intercept the aircraft, the U.S. official said Saturday.

The spy plane crew felt so concerned about the radar tracking that it wanted to get out of the area as quickly as possible, the official said. The quickest route away from the Russians took them into Swedish airspace. The U.S. official acknowledged that was done without Swedish military approval.

more..

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/02/us/us-spy-plane/?sr=google_news&google_editors_picks=true

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Reply U.S. Official: Spy Plane Flees Russian Jet, Radar; Ends Up Over Sweden (Original post)
Purveyor Aug 2014 OP
postulater Aug 2014 #1
bemildred Aug 2014 #2
HereSince1628 Aug 2014 #4
bemildred Aug 2014 #5
newfie11 Aug 2014 #7
ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2014 #8
NuclearDem Aug 2014 #12
newfie11 Aug 2014 #3
HereSince1628 Aug 2014 #6
newfie11 Aug 2014 #9
HereSince1628 Aug 2014 #11
Igel Aug 2014 #14
longship Aug 2014 #10
NuclearDem Aug 2014 #13

Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 04:50 AM

1. It's unusual for a SPY plane to be tracked

by radar?

A SPY plane?

Maybe it's just unusual that you got CAUGHT SPYING?

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Response to postulater (Reply #1)

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 06:00 AM

2. It means the Russians "lit them up" with targeting radars.

They always track them, but targeting radar is different.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #2)

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 07:18 AM

4. Yes, that's the way I interpreted it, too.

Surveillance of fleet operations is common at any time, but NATO/US has stated publically that it is providing increased support for eastern Baltic states as a consequence of Russian posture toward Ukraine. Surveillance is also basic to that.

Considering the increasing prickliness of current relationship with Russia I'm not surprised that the Russians upped the ante. Because these sorts of response require communication of command and control, back in the day these sorts of interactions were exploited as information generating.


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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 07:24 AM

5. +1. All this dick-waving has consequences. nt

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Response to bemildred (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 08:05 AM

7. Exactly

This is what children do not adults. Humanity will kill itself off.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 08:09 AM

8. here...

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Response to bemildred (Reply #2)

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 09:35 AM

12. Precisely.

 

RJ flights from Mildenhall to collect near Russia are frankly routine, and Russians being dicks in return is just as much so.

There's obviously a reason the pilot found it necessary to abort and maneuver like he did.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 06:34 AM

3. Do we really need to play these dumb ass games?

We have satellites and I'm pretty sure their checking out Russia all the time.

We can spend money on this shit but people in this country are living on the street with no food!

The crap we've pulled in South
America and what we did to Vietnam, does not give me a proud to be American feeling.

Will we ever learn? No!

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Response to newfie11 (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 07:32 AM

6. Provoking a response generates interceptable communications traffic

that satellites wouldn't.

A military definitely wants to know how its opposition's command and control networked and what is 'normal' vs 'notable' communications traffic within those networks.

All sides do this.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #6)

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 08:10 AM

9. Two wrongs don't make a right

Or stupid is as stupid does. I'm sure with all the spying being done America knows what's going on in Russia already and now it is their turn to play.
As I said meanwhile there's bigger fish to fry so to speak.
Global warming may end the whole shebang!

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Response to newfie11 (Reply #9)

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 08:26 AM

11. You seem to be assuming surveillance is wrong.

I'm antiwar, but I don't think that's a given that surveillance/spying is wrong. It certainly can be done in ways that violate ethics, as well as personal and national rights.

Global climate change is certainly a huge problem, but it makes belligerence between nations MORE likely not less likely. The global context of life requires awareness on many fronts.

At this time there aren't many bigger fish to pay attention to than a Russia interested in reacquisition of it's sphere of influence by intimidation/force of its former satellites.

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Response to newfie11 (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 10:23 AM

14. However, spy planes often do more than satellites.

It's easy to hide things from satellites. Or dispute what the blips on the ground are. And since "they" know when the satellites are overhead that makes it a bit less useful. (Note that the Russian Def Min "debunked" the US-provided satellites by stating when they would have been taken. Accurate or not, nobody came back with the response, "You can't know that!"

This kind of thing produces real-time continuous data on air movements of the other side's planes. So in Ukraine where Russia frequently intrudes on Ukrainian airspace, a satellite won't cut it. You want real-time radar data, and if the distance is too great you need to collect that data from the air so you can "peek" over the horizon a ways.

It's also good for picking up short range or directed communication. During the time involved there were troop movements all along the Russian western perimeter. (There still are. Troops moving to the Ukraine border along Russia and Belorus. Air units were redeployed.) You want spy *planes* to pick up what satellites can't. Moreover, spy planes often contain some processing ability so the data might be pre-processed before it's transmitted to HQ in a secure way.

Perhaps this was just dickwagging and Russia flexing its muscles, saying "This is international air space, that means it's Russian territory." Perhaps Russia didn't want the spy plane to see what was happening.

Plus it's possible that this involved Kaliningrad--you know, some of that historically Prussian-German territory annexed by Russia after the end of WWII as spoils of war. (The Prussians are extinct as an ethnicity, their language was mostly dead by 1700.) It's largely closed territory, even Russians have trouble visiting there, and Russia is really anxious about "separatist" and "federalist" movements on its territory. It views the Ukrainian Maidan as a trial run for Russia.

Kaliningrad is also a bone of contention because it's like Alaska with no land access from the rest of Russia. (Instead they have to go through the Baltics. Russian blockade of another country = just and right. Blockade of Russia by any country = act of war. Crush separatist movement in Chechnya through massive bombardment of civilians, good if it spares a Russian life. Crush separatist movement in Ukraine through much less massive bombardment, genocide if it kills "innocent Russians" in masks and camo manning Grad launchers. Understand the thinking.)

Not everything is Vietnam, 50 years ago. If you had any authority over what happened in Vietnam you're very likely to be in your 80s, at the least. Even an old ex-felon who was convicted of rape is allowed to put locks on his doors, and his children and grandchildren are certainly allowed to. We don't visit the sins of the fathers on the children unto the 10th generation.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 08:23 AM

10. That's a Boeing 707! Old technology.

And certainly not a high flying U-2.

I worked on the first CFM-56 re-engined KC-135s at Boeing in the 80s. Pretty amazing aircraft, even considering their age then. Of course, the military has had many variants of the 707 in service since the 50s and the first passenger versions were actually an adaption of the military version.

It's a beautiful plane.

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Response to longship (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 09:36 AM

13. Old as dirt.

 

Same airframe, but does nothing for the collection boxes constantly breaking down.

(Yes, I was an RJ backender)

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