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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRevealed: how Israel offered to sell South Africa nuclear weapons/GuardianUK
"Ally"? Riiiiight.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons
Secret South African documents reveal that Israel offered to sell nuclear warheads to the apartheid regime, providing the first official documentary evidence of the state's possession of nuclear weapons.
The "top secret" minutes of meetings between senior officials from the two countries in 1975 show that South Africa's defence minister, PW Botha, asked for the warheads and Shimon Peres, then Israel's defence minister and now its president, responded by offering them "in three sizes". The two men also signed a broad-ranging agreement governing military ties between the two countries that included a clause declaring that "the very existence of this agreement" was to remain secret.
The documents, uncovered by an American academic, Sasha Polakow-Suransky, in research for a book on the close relationship between the two countries, provide evidence that Israel has nuclear weapons despite its policy of "ambiguity" in neither confirming nor denying their existence.
The Israeli authorities tried to stop South Africa's post-apartheid government declassifying the documents at Polakow-Suransky's request and the revelations will be an embarrassment, particularly as this week's nuclear non-proliferation talks in New York focus on the Middle East.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)follow international treaties.
This effectively makes any negotiations with Iran concerning nuclear non-proliferation impossible.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)so how exactly do you plan on getting Israel to cooperate? Besides everybody knows that Israel has nuclear weapons, it's been known for decades, even if Israel refuses to confirm or deny it.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)It is now provable.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)and is not subject to it.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)its stance on nuclear weapons is unacceptable.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)There is no other option.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)Do you have any real world solutions?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Iran has every right to develop nuclear weapons now.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)There are 4 countries that have nuclear weapons that have not signed the Treaty: Isreal, India, Pakistan & North Korea.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)Iran is not exactly a country particularly susceptible to international pressure
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)Purveyor
(29,876 posts)TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...Iran is more trustworthy than Israel. That's a list that I wouldn't think Israel would want to be on. Look at the company they're keeping; Pakistan and North Korea...
TYY
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)Lancero
(3,003 posts)Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)that South Africa had worked with both Israel and Pakistan on developing nuclear weapons and possibly traded some military technology, although not actual equipment. It makes sense since all three countries had one or more hostile countries on their border, did not have a lot of support in the international community and lacked the money, people and resources to be able to be assured of a victory in a major war by just relying on conventional weapons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel
It's interesting to see the involvement of France, England and Argentina in the early stages of Israel's nuclear program
malaise
(268,930 posts)This was well know but well ignored as well.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)like the American President makes me feel a bit uneasy. I don't think he's mentally unstable but I think there's no limit to what he would do if he felt that Israel was cornered, told to stand down militarily, and if the UN and U.S. tried to install an arms embargo on the entire region some time in the future.
The French in the 1950s gave Israel their first nuclear research reactors and worked closely with Israel in giving them all their data from nuclear tests in French Polynesia. Of course Israel has the bomb and has had it for quite awhile.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)and he or she had no other options, then yes, there are going to be mushroom clouds over a bunch of cities and maybe not just Middle Eastern cities depending who Israel feels is the country most responsible for it's imminent destruction.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)What a chilling statement. Frankly, statements like these make it sound like some of Israel's supporters are as nutty as the people they claim are all terrorists.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)The USAF believes that the Jericho-3 has a potential maximum range of 11,500 kilometers (7,145 miles).
To put that in context, the US Minuteman III has a range of approximately 8,100 miles & the Trident II has a range between 4,200-7,000 miles depending on payload.
Can you give me a good reason why Israel would go to the extra expense to build that much range into a nuclear capable missile when all of their potential Arab enemies are all far closer?
My comments were based on that, you don't build that much (potential) range in a nuclear capable missile and spend the extra money to do so without a reason
I've stayed out of most of the Israel/Gaza/Palestine threads, I hardly think I fall into the category of the wild eyed, "nutty" Israel supporters simply because I researched their nuclear capabilities and projected their response to an absolute worst case scenario.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I truly can contribute nothing further than my own previous comment.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)other then to insult a fact based post with a possible Israeli response to an absolute worst case scenario?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)that further comments from me are not necessary.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)and provocation aren't a discussion. That is why the entire region is where it is right now.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)that was positive. Hold on to those laughs.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)...If Botha had the bomb, maybe the Afrikaners would still be in power.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)They constructed six warheads in the 1980's. Dismantled in 1989.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Alleged_collaboration_with_Israel
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)Since come the time the South Africans had the bomb their 1950's vintage British bombers just weren't combat ready in any credible number.
Wolf Frankula
(3,600 posts)weren't useful in South Africa's situation. South Africa could defeat any of its neighbors or combination of it's neighbors, the threat was internal. Hitting say, Soweto with a nuke would damage the rest of Johannesburg. Radiation doesn't respect borders or boundaries.
Wolf
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)more proof that anything you post shouldn't be considered credible or rational.
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)if that works for you.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)and trying coming up with a solution that bears some resemblance to reality if you don't like being criticized.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Purveyor
(29,876 posts)the US invasion of Iraq, the one event that split the ME wide open.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Interesting find.