India’s Toilet Race Failing as Villages Don’t Use Them, dont want to be "locked in with own filth"

[Liberal_in_LA]

Sunita’s family in the north Indian village of Mukimpur were given their first toilet in February, one of millions being installed by the government to combat disease. She can’t remember the last time anyone used it.

When nature calls, the 26-year-old single mother and her four children head toward the jungle next to their farm of red and pink roses, to a field of tall grass, flecked with petals, where the 7,000 people of her village go to defecate and exchange gossip.
Only dalits, the lowest Hindu caste, should be exposed to excrement in a closed space, “or city-dwellers who don’t have space to go in the open,” said Sunita, who uses one name, as she washed clothes next to the concrete latrine. “Feces don’t belong under the same roof as where we eat and sleep.”

Sunita’s view reveals one of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s biggest challenges in combating the world’s biggest sanitation problem, one that costs India 600,000 lives annually from diarrhea and exposes a third of the nation’s women to the risk of rape or sexual assault. With no toilets for half the population, Modi promised to build 5.3 million latrines by the end of his first 100 days in office -- one a second until Aug. 31, according to the Ministry of Drinking Water and Sanitation. Without education, they’ll make little difference.

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http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-03/india-s-toilet-race-failing-as-villages-don-t-use-them.html

With little access to running water, government latrines typically consist of a large, concrete septic tank with a ceramic squat-toilet on top, enclosed by a cement or brick cubicle with a narrow door. The government says it has built 138 toilets in Mukimpur since February.

Sunita finds them disgusting.
“Locking us inside these booths with our own filth? I will never see how that is clean.” She points to the field. “Going out there is normal

[fujiyama]

1. Sanitation and poor infrastructure are two of India's biggest challenges going forward

and people there need to be thoroughly educated on this. Water borne diseases are a huge threat to millions - and especially children.

I'm glad this is an issue getting more international coverage recently. Perhaps the government will be shamed and embarrassed into doing something about this. Many poorer countries are addressing this issue much more effectively than India.

[JI7]

6. the problem seems to be prejudice and discrimination of people more than just being informed

about sanitation.

this idiot in the article is talking about dalits and not living like that.

[Mopar151]

54. Not just in India

I've heard from someone in the apartment rental biz that some folks from the subcontinent will move out rather than clean the bathroom.

[onehandle]

2. Tea Party thinking is not only stateside. nt

[BlueJazz]

3. Oh boy.

[JI7]

4. backwards dumbass, they need to start giving them fines and even jail

[BlueJazz]

7. Be careful. 8 months ago I said that Indian is a dirty place and a country with poor sanitation.

(I was forced to live there for a year..Job) Anyway, the proverbial Shit-hit-the-fan. Went to jury and got lost...of course. Got a nasty Email for my insensitivity and I was a "bad Person".
Seems you can talk down (on DU) about America and it's problems but Indian.. NOoooooooo
This post is more for me than anything..I'm still pissed about it.

Thank you Vedy much.

[JI7]

8. actually your comments on india/indians were very bigoted

you are attacking an entire country and people and think action should be taken against an entire people. mines was directed towards people who don't comply with certain rules.

btw i am indian american.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=677897

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=677930

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=147439

[BlueJazz]

9. Here we go again >>

So because I hate India and think the country is a shit-hole...that (to you) is the same as saying I hate the people in India.
Yes...how true. When I say America sucks at times...meaning of course, it's policies...I REALLY mean that I despise every
single-person-who-lives-in-America.

If you want, I can perhaps help you with your thought patterns regarding the correlation of reading one's posts and thinking something entirely different.
You apparently have much to learn in that area....but I'll make it simple.
1. Bluejazz feelings= India is a crowded, over-populated shit-hole
2. Bluejazz feelings= Indians (the people who LIVE in India) are (for the most part) decent, nice human beings.

If this is too much for you to "get it" ...call the jury again.

[JI7]

10. this is what you said "I'd like to see Indian Men banned from H-X Visas

"When your country cleans up it's act toward women, we'll think about reinstating it."

[BlueJazz]

11. I do mean it..still. When I was there, Women were treated like dirt and told me so often.

They would rant about how much more fair it is in America for women. (That..I'm not so sure of)
The men I worked with constantly talked down to females and in turn, seem to bring much sadness to the table.

My MAIN reason for "I'd like to see Indian Men banned from H-X Visas" was because I don't want any new workers coming here that want to bring their hateful ways toward females. They can leave that bullshit and ignorance back where they came from.
In short, I have NO Patience with the Chaste system. It belongs in the Dark-ages.
To me..Indian men are "Preachy" and irritating. The women...fairly level headed

You DID notice I said Men and not Women. ?

[JI7]

12. oh, so it's only all indian men who are that way

well, thanks for clearing that up .........

[BlueJazz]

13. Over and out.

[Ms. Toad]

16. Wow - do yourself a favor and stop digging a deeper hole.

I had not seen your posts before - but I would have hidden all three that are still standing. I don't even want to imagine what is in the one that did get hidden.

[BlueJazz]

17. My opinions are not unfair nor cruel. Walk in somebody's shoes...and all that.

I don't call the cops because somebody does not like a large area of dirt.
That's just totally ridiculous. The next time you see somebody driving a car that you hate (Hummer?), tell them you despise the people driving the vehicle. That's also totally ridiculous.

[Ms. Toad]

18. You need to be honest with yourself about what it is you really hate -

because it isn't a large area of dirt, any more than people who bash the south hate that large area of dirt. Your negative experiences in that country - with the people and the living situations you encountered - not negative experiences with the dirt - is what your posts were about.

Aside from which - it is generally accepted that if a minority group about whom you are speaking is offended by your speech, you are the one who needs to change, not them. In this thread, an Indian American shared his offense at what you have said.

[BlueJazz]

21. I don't agree with you. It's the politics and the condition of the country that 'causes myself to..

...either like or dislike an area. I don't like the south (which I am a person living here) but I like most of the people here.
The South is a drain on the US, most of the politicians are horrible and crooks plus an added taste of shysterism. (is that a word?)
When I say, area, dirt or whatever, my thoughts go to the people who own the area and dirt.
...and I'll give you a clue, it's not the people you see every day. It's the rich and their slaves (politicians) that make a country, area or dirt lousy.
People here sometimes take words or feelings as the whole sum of what somebody writes.

I assume that when people here write something that strikes me the wrong way, they're saying something a little more deep than..
"Tarzan Good, Fire bad"
One other thing I'll get off my chest...DUer's seem to assume the worse of somebody. I look at their post count and remember what they've said in the past about various things.
If anybody here thinks I hate any group of people..(Ok, Rush Limbaugh, Fox news)...they don't know me at all.
I DO dislike some of their actions and treatment of others but that should go without saying..

[JI7]

24. you said an entire gorup of people should be banned so trying to claim

it's not the people now doesn't work.

[BlueJazz]

25. You insist on seeing everything in Black and White. Have you lived in India?...

Have you seen the way a lot of men treat women there??

Sorry, I stand by my words on that one.
You don't like it ?..Tough.

[JI7]

26. yes, every single man there does that

have you read about how minorities are treated in the US . do you think someone wanting to ban every white person somewhere would be ok ?

[BlueJazz]

29. If it meant reforming the system that causes the mistreatment? In a Heartbeat.

I'd tell them: Until you straighten up your own actions and stop destroying others existence, you're not welcome here...We have our own problems with assholes: Sorry, we're all filled up.

As soon as I saw that laws were passed and actions were taken to alleviate the sorrow, I'd welcome them with open arms.

[JI7]

30. so you think it would be ok to ban white americans from places because

of the way minorities are treated ?

look at the US military and problems with sexual assault there, the colleges also. should american men be banned from all colleges and the military ?

how about we ban all nigerians because of the missing girls and the anti gay laws ?

[BlueJazz]

32. this>

"look at the US military and problems with sexual assault there, the colleges also. should American men be banned from all colleges and the military ?" Yep.
Perhaps men would get their shit together if you refused to let them rape women...or at least, caused the men to make sure that a woman didn't have to be scared to death 1/2 of their life.
It would be the-shit-hit-the-fan for a time but ANY sign of another man hurting women would result in the man being...ah..."Taught"
that it won't be tolerated.
We men are to blame for the abusive conditions that you speak of. It's up to us to stop it.
Nigerians...not sure...never been there.

[JI7]

33. you don't have to have been somewhere to learn about things that happen

but still you only said indian men should be banned so i don't think your concern is really about women.

[BlueJazz]

37. Oh..For pete sakes..Do I have to spell it out?

Yes, Yes, Yes...until the Indian Men stop this bullshit "Child Bride crap" and a host of other ridiculous, complete subjugation of Women, I don't want them here.

"I don't want them here" + 3 dollars might get you a hamburger.
My feelings on the subject do not matter...nothing is going to change.
Other people feel completely different on the subject and (should not) care a rat's ass how I feel.

It's just a feeling...Not the Law.

[JI7]

38. you are blaming an entire group , how about we get rid of all the white people in this country

because look at the people they elect to office, look at them terrorizing kids from the south of the country, the gun nuts etc.

let no white person in the country.

[BlueJazz]

39. We probably ARE getting rid of all the white, black and every other colour people anyway.

We may be gone sooner than you think.
Look..you really shouldn't care so much how I feel. It just doesn't matter.

[JI7]

40. this is a discussion board andi will call out racists

[BlueJazz]

41. Call out to your heart's content. Have fun...or not.

[etherealtruth]

50. I am wondering what the poster would do about my sons?

Are they only half bannable?

They have a "Pillsbury doughboy" white mother (me) .... but their father is a first generation American (from India via South Africa) .... should they be banned?

Apparently my daughter is OK.

This is sickening filth ... I can't even respond to "that" poster as I do not want to engage with someone spewing that kind of racist filth.


For the record my former in-laws are some of the most wonderful folk on this planet

[Ms. Toad]

42. But you're rejecting far more than the politics and condition of the country

You're rejecting the people who live there, as well - how else can "The only thing I would like to see in India is 2 million Tigers," be interpreted? If you get rid only of the politics and the conditions, there are still billions of ordinary people who live there - and you essentially said tigers would be worth more than they are.

When you say, "I'd like to see Indian Men banned from H-X Visas - 'When your country cleans up it's act toward women, we'll think about reinstating it.'" you are rejecting half of the Indian population based on prejudice against some - perhaps even many - Indian males who behave badly. That is the same as painting the South with the broad brush that all who live there are racisst, backwards, or conservative. You later backed off of that and said that the reason you object had to do with protecting American workers (paraphrasing), but if that was the reason for your statement you never would have addded the two qualifiers: male and Indian in the first place.

You may not understand how your statements come across - but when several people (at least the jury that hid your post, an American Indian male, and me) have told you that your comments feel bigoted and hurtful. Perhaps instead of lashing out, and continuing your rationalizations into another thread, you should seriously think about how what you are saying comes across.

In another context - I am positive that the vast majority of people on DU who initially joked about Ann Coulter being male didn't understand how hurtful those comments were. Those who listened when the LGBT community pointed it out corrected their inadvertently hurtful behavior. Several others who dug their heels in, insisted that because they didn't mean it to be hurtful it wasn't, and continued to make the same jokes. For the most part, they are no longer here.

[BlueJazz]

43. This>>

"When you say, "I'd like to see Indian Men banned from H-X Visas - 'When your country cleans up it's act toward women, we'll think about reinstating it.'" you are rejecting half of the Indian population based on prejudice against some - perhaps even many - Indian males who behave badly. That is the same as painting the South with the broad brush that all who live there are racisst, backwards, or conservative. You later backed off of that and said that the reason you object had to do with protecting American workers (paraphrasing), but if that was the reason for your statement you never would have addded the two qualifiers: male and Indian in the first place."

I feel that the seriousness and crime that a lot of Indian Men foster on their female counterparts overrides the inconvenience that would be put on the other men.
Is it fair ?.. Probably not but people are caught in the crossfire of change all the time.
If it were the other way around (I'm a MCSE) and say..France said "American men are too so and so to come here and work...strange as it may seem, I would understand for one reason. It's for the common good and MIGHT ??...bring change.
It's a harsh cold way..I know, but people are usually too damn lazy to start change until they have to.
As for the tigers, I have no idea what I meant. I do know the cats were not suppose to eat anybody ??
Probably some symbolic crap of mine.

[Ms. Toad]

46. Let's look at similar situation, then.

Would it be acceptable, in a progressive community, to advocate for a curfew on black men because 1 in 3 will commit a crime* in their lifetime? The crimes they have been convicted of - often committed at night so a curfew might be curtailed by keeping the perpetrators off the streets at night. But would it really be okay to advocate a solution that catches the other 2/3 in the crossfire in order to minimize the damage the 1/3 have been convicted of doing?

*or at least be incarcerated for a crime - there are many factors, including systemic racism which disproportionately charges and convicts black men, which contribute to the high incarceration rate for black males.

[BlueJazz]

49. No. That would be silly. (with all due respect) Black men are citizens of the USA...

...with all the rights and privileges. Indian men are not citizens who come hear to work. If they ARE citizens or will be citizens..Fine.

My feelings on this subject are not cruel or nasty. I simply don't want a group of people freely coming here who have no respect for half of our population. It's that simple. It's really THAT simple.
People on this forum have turned that fact into "He's a racist"

Also..who in the hell is Bluejazz? Do I have any power to change stuff. Not much.
It's only the way I feel.

Plus this.....If Women from Australia had a history of degrading Men, I would feel exactly the same way. I would not like them coming here to work.

[Ms. Toad]

55. The comparison I made had nothing to do with whether it would be legally possible

The point is whether it is fair to making generalization (and advocate treating an entire group badly) based on the behavior of some portion of that group. I deliberately used an analogous example that any progressive would immediately recognize as wrong so you might be able to see how you are coming across. You apparently just can't see it.

[BlueJazz]

56. "You apparently just can't see it."

You may very well be correct, Ms. Toad. I may be biased but please keep this in mind.
The horror stories I listened to are etched in my mind and quite possibly have destroyed any sense of fairness on my part.....regarding this subject. I suppose I'm trying to speak for the women who tearfully confided in me and I just don't know how to do it.

[Ms. Toad]

59. You do it

by speaking out against the individuals who perpetrated the crimes, and challenge the cultural practices and biases which perpetuate it (which also exist in this country) - not by blaming all males in the country.

I was raped by a black man, at a time in my life when I had had very little prior contact with any black men - so I understand the impulse to be angry (directly, or on behalf of others) and lash out, and to attach the only personal experience you have had to the group the person who perpetrated the acts. But it was not all black men who raped me - and it was not all Indian men assaulted the women who confided in you, and your words will be less likely to be hidden here if you regain that perspective.

[CTyankee]

23. I am very hesitant to visit India even tho I feel very sorry for the discrimination the caste system

has brought upon the poorest of their nation. I can understand this woman's feeling about an enclosed toilet. It is sad that she hasn't had good sanitation all along so she can feel more comfortable with it.

[littlemissmartypants]

5. Disguise them as shrines. j/k

[Skittles]

48. LOL

[WinkyDink]

14. Which explains a lot about what I've as the pervasive odor of India.

[BrotherIvan]

44. It's because cow dung is used as fuel

It's not from humans. Also, the old way to wash clothes is gasoline. The cities do not have this same sanitation problem, though their toilets are not like ours. Often they are just a hole in the floor.

[bklyncowgirl]

15. Local cultural prejudices have to be taken into consideration when instituting health reforms.

If people see defecating in a field as cleaner than using a stinking latrine then yes, they are going to continue to do their business in the local field. Then there are the problems with flush toilets when people are not educated how to use them.

[brooklynite]

19. Where do you think the term "night soil" came from?

Fecal matter has probably been used as fertilizer for millenia. Outside of built up areas, I can see where introducing an "unnecessary" cultural change wouldn't go over well.

[CBGLuthier]

20. Wow the ethnocentrism and thinly disguised racism in this thread is disgusting

I would argue each disgusting post but I no longer try to change the minds of bigots. Sad to see so-called progressives with such arrogant attitudes.

[tammywammy]

31. Agreed. n/t

[tritsofme]

45. There's nothing bigoted about promoting public health

Ignorance is not bliss, it is dangerous. Education on modern sanitation methods to promote public health is always a positive thing.

[CBGLuthier]

47. suggesting they disguise them as shrines and calling them a dirty people is fucking bigoted

I alerted on the shrines comment and struck out 7-0 which says a lot to me about the kind of people on DU nowadays.

They consider indoor toilets dirty and we are the ones that are disgusting but rah rah western civilization eh. So much to offer.

[Dreamer Tatum]

57. Actually, yes, rah rah Western Civilization

Let's all go back to shitting outdoors and see if that causes any public health issues.

My god, the stupidity that gets propagated in the name of "multiculturalism."

Funny, in all the years of multiculturalism indoctrination I've been exposed to, not once, not ever
was I called upon to "celebrate diversity" by approving of masses of people shitting and pissing outdoors.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

62. You don't have to go very far...

You can find impassioned defenses of public urination and defecation on this very website.

[Rex]

22. But you only say 'hi' to your filth and then 'bye' when you unlock the door to exit!

Maybe pooping in the forest is more natural, but I will take the porcelain god any day to a patch of dirt behind a tree.

How many billions would it cost for India to build a huge underground system that leads to waste treatment plants?

[notadmblnd]

27. I bet they'd use them if the were made to look like recliners

Then they could install a big screen TV and charge a small sum for their use.

[arcane1]

28. "The Big Necessity" is a fascinating book on this topic.

It covers not just India but all over the world.

[Strelnikov_]

34. "access to a toilet adds 20 years to the average life"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Necessity

[tabasco]

35. India needs to get rid of this caste bullshit

Toilets can be disgusting if they're not cleaned.

[alarimer]

36. Hookworms were endemic in the south, until outhouses came into widespread use

People used the bathroom in the fields or wherever.

If people are doing their business outdoors in India, I'm guessing they are needlessly exposing themselves to parasites, maybe not this one. Some of these can have serious consequences from a health standpoint, and also an economic one.

This is a parasite that is found throughout the world. It can cause pernicious anemia and is spread because people walk though soil (barefoot) that is infested with hookworms.

It was nearly eradicated in the US because of a widespread program of treatment and the building of outhouses. But it was a tough sell at the time and took a while for people to see the benefits. These people might also benefit from an education campaign that takes culture into account.

More here...

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/bodyhorrors/2011/04/25/blood-money-hookworm-economics-in-the-postbellum-south/#.U-VUmvk7uM4

[liberal N proud]

51. So they would rather walk around in their and everyone else's filth.

[Glorfindel]

52. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there are plenty of dogs (wild, feral, or pets) who cheerfully

consume the filth...maybe jackals, too. Where there exists a source of nourishment, nature provides something to consume it.

[Lilyhoney]

53. The real sanitation problem for the people and future generations of India is this;

children are exposed to a bacterial brew that often sickens them, leaving them unable to attain a healthy body weight no matter how much food they eat.

"These children's bodies divert energy and nutrients away from growth and brain development to prioritize infection-fighting survival," said Jean Humphrey, a professor of human nutrition at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. "When this happens during the first two years of life, children become stunted. What's particularly disturbing is that the lost height and intelligence are permanent."


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Indias-poor-sanitation-linked-to-malnutrition/articleshow/38573266.cms


Please read the article at the link above.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

58. I'm personally partial to this approach, I think it should also be adopted by US cities

"You Stop, We Stop."

[badtoworse]

60. This would have been perfect for Zuccotti Park

OWS peeing and crapping in the streets was a big problem.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

61. I think those vagrants did that everywhere

The police and fire department in LA wouldn't go in without hazmat suits.