Police fatally shoot man holding an air rifle in Walmart toy aisle

[LiberalElite]

This wasn't an "open carry" situation. Victim was Black.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/07/1319862/-Police-fatally-shoot-man-with-air-rifle-in-Walmart-toy-aisle

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Unbelievable. What the @#$%?

Do they train these cops by playing Grand Theft Auto or Doom?

How @#$%&ing insane is this?

[Hoppy]

2. Every inch of Walmart stores is likely video recorded.

That will tell if the guy was shot while already on the ground.

IF so, the cop will likely get promoted.

[DireStrike]

3. I thought you had to shoot someone restrained in an ambulance for the instant promotion?

Oh well, live and learn.

[littlemissmartypants]

5. And a bonus if the cameras

Caught the peace officer with his boot on the victims Back while putting one hand on his hip hoisting his firearm in the air.

[Tsiyu]

6. Or if the suspect is handcuffed on his belly unconscious

while the peace officer bashes in his skull while screaming "Stop resisting arrest!"

After shooting the perp's chihuahua, of course.

[FarPoint]

34. I heard that the Officer who shot the young man....

He has done this before...2012...Now has 2 kills in his career. I hope this story surfaces...I heard this during a group conversation. I live in the area.

[savalez]

15. they have the video.

Hopefully tomorrow it'll be released.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

4. Sounds like one of those "Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam!.....

....Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam!............Blam!..........Police officers! Freeze!" kinda situations.

[NutmegYankee]

53. It certainly seems like that happens a lot.

If a citizen shot someone 15 times they'd be charged with murder even if it was clear self defense. And yet cops can empty several mags into someone without a single punishment. Free vaycay!

[Iggo]

7. Yay, Cops!

They're the best!

[ReRe]

8. l'm bad at this...

... i.e., not clicking on the link and reading the story. But I did this time. There was a woman in the WalMart who was scared of him. Being the hyper-vigilant biddy she was, and looking for trouble and all... she called the cops. The cops came and shot him down. Story over. I hope to hell she feels all safe now.

[linuxman]

9. Hmmm...

More than a few times I've seen posters here extol the virtues of calling the cops on anyone they see with any kind of gun in a sort of "It's not my job to know his intentions/know if it's real!" sort of way.

Wish: Granted!

If only the young man hadn't expressed such an unhealthy attraction to (air)gun culture...right?

[ReRe]

16. It was a TOY gun!

Maybe toy guns like that should be taken from the shelves and not even sold? There was another case a year or so ago where a kid was walking down the street with a gun similar to this one and he was shot dead by police.

[BrotherIvan]

19. Yes, they should

If a cop can't tell the difference, how could anyone else? Realistic toy guns should not be sold. All toy guns should be rainbow-colored. I know stupid cops shoot small children with colored guns too, but at least logic says those guns look to much like the real thing. I would have called the cops on someone carrying what looks like a large rifle.

[ReRe]

21. That's an excellent idea...

... rainbow colored guns!

[BrotherIvan]

22. Or no guns

It's just a marketing tool to sell the expensive stuff later. I would give my kids some hand shovels and let them got to town in the garden. Kids love it.

[ReRe]

25. That's right...

... The only guns I bought my boys were those wild west pistols held in the holster belt around their waist. Cowboy hats and chaps and boots and they were ready to go play coyboys and Indians. (Isn't that awful? ) Anyway, they played with them a couple times, threw them down and never played with them again.

[marshall]

68. Are air rifles considered toys?

I certainly wouldn't give one to a child, regardless of whether it is being marketed as a toy gun.

[ReRe]

92. Nobody but a gun nut would give it to their kid, I agree. n/t

[rollin74]

95. no air rifles are not toys and many look like real guns

the one the guy in Wal-Mart had is designed to resemble an actual firearm

MK-177 air rifle



Bushmaster ACR

[FreeManNYC]

111. Yes and No

Airguns generally called BB guns are usually used by kids for plinking (informal shooting) in backyards, open fields and in the woods. When I was growing up almost every kid had one. When my kids learned to shoot they started with Crosman and Daisy guns hitting cans and plastic water jugs in the backyard. There are professional and expensive airguns that can be used for hunting and competition these are not toys and can cause serious injuries if they are misused.

[Mosby]

70. it wasnt a toy gun though

It was a .177 caliber pellet gun. You can use those to shoot birds and small game.

I'm not saying the cops handled this well, just wanted to clarify about the weapon.

[ReRe]

91. It was sold in the toy isle, evidently

... because that appears to be where he picked it up. Yeah, I did read that it was a pellet gun.

[Dustlawyer]

87. They outlawed candy cigarettes being marketed to children, shouldn't they outlaw BB guns

that look like real hand guns or assault weapons?

[ReRe]

90. Absolutely! n/t

[FreeManNYC]

112. Outlaw toy guns absolutely not!

I think it totally up to parents to decide what their children should have as toys. I know in NYC realistic toy guns are banned an that includes cap guns. Parents who want their kids to have these toys simply purchase outside the city.

My questions is why in the last ten years or so toy guns have become such a problem? Is it because of our militarized police forces who act like they are on the streets of Iraq rather than those of the U.S. are now more to shoot first and ask questions later?

[ReRe]

113. Why have toy guns become such a problem...

... in the last ten years? Probably because of GWB's war-all-the-time mentality. Also, we're just a violent society, don't you think? And hey, capitalism will sell anything--it has no conscience.

I remember cap guns. God, I loved those things. I had two older brothers who always had them, but they wouldn't let me and little sister play with them. So sister and I saved up our money and bought one for ourselves at the $5 and dime store with a box of caps. All we wanted was the sound of the cap popping. It's was like fireworks in our hands.!

[marshall]

115. Children are also mostly unsupervised

Raising themselves, with the assistance of televisions and other electronic nannies.

[ReRe]

116. Neglect is so cruel...

This has nothing to do with the St Louis shooting, but did you catch that "neglect" story the other day out of PA? 7-8 yr old boy was found in home of parents weighing only 25 lbs. They had 3 other kids. Parents were thrown in jail, no bail and children were place in child protective services. The little boy is hospital, has gained about 20 lbs and they think he's going to survive.

When my boys were little, I didn't dare take my eyes off of them. Truth be known, they neglected me.

[Politicalboi]

27. So then no one should open carry

We don't know what their intentions are. And us anti gun people have the right to be free of seeing weapons. I don't trust these yahoo's with guns. Why must we be possible statistics just so someone can carry their paranoia with them.

[truebluegreen]

102. + a zillion Thank you!

[Quackers]

12. Read post 11

[ReRe]

17. Thanks!

[valerief]

13. And that makes the cop's actions okay how? I guess Wal-Mart should just

NOT SELL GUNS. Or ban black people from shopping there. Otherwise, more black people will be killed by police when shopping for guns.

[ReRe]

18. Hello?

I am very sorry if that's how you read my reply. I MOST DEFINITELY was not defending the police. I'm pissed because they shot a young man with a toy gun in his hands! There was another case in the past year or so where a kid was walking down the street with one of these realistic-looking guns and the police shot him dead!

This is happening more and more (cops killing kids with toy guns/rifles) and maybe it would be a good idea to do away with toy guns all together.

[valerief]

42. Sorry if I misunderstood. These stories piss me off, too.

I agree, it's happening more and more. Or else we're being made aware of it more and more via the Internet.

Toys guns could be banned but better yet, OPEN CARRY SHOULD BE banned. And guns should only be sold in GUN stores, not discount department stores. If Wal-Mart wants to sell guns, let them open up stores solely designed to sell only guns. But that would never happen, because (1) they'd never do it willingly and (2) no govt official would ever make them do it because Wal-Mart owns them.

And then there's the even bigger problem. Our Gun Violence Culture. And our law enforcement all want to be freakin' Rambos. Thank you, Hollywood, for cultivating the Gun Violence Culture. Hollywood tells us it's okay to be powerless, because we have guns as our equalizers. Only they're never used on our true enemies, are they?

[NutmegYankee]

75. Actually the warrior cop thing is associated with the war on drugs.

The cops actually think they are going into battle against "drug terrorists".

ACLU Report: War Comes Home: The Excessive Militarization of American Policing - https://www.aclu.org/war-comes-home-excessive-militarization-american-policing

http://www.washingtonpost.com/people/radley-balko (Balko is a strong Civil Libertarian who holds many views we on DU will agree with). Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces

[Sparhawk60]

38. But...

But he may have been wearing a hoodie, we all know how scary a hoodie is, so of course the police shot him.

[ReRe]

40. Sadly...

... you say that in jest, but it could very well be true. WalMart hasn't let go of their video yet.

[yeoman6987]

55. The woman should be charged

I knew the story was something like that. Facts are such a burden to some.

[exboyfil]

10. Open Carry is permitted in Ohio

White with a real gun???? Probably would be considered to be persecuted.

[Quackers]

11. My wife's cousin was the woman that died there.

We still don't know the whole story. We were called around 9:15 that night and told that there was a shooting and she died from a heart attack.

[BrotherIvan]

23. So sorry to hear that

Best wishes to you and your family. I hope you can find some comfort and rest from this ordeal.

[ReRe]

24. I went back and read....

Last edited Fri Aug 8, 2014, 08:11 PM - Edit history (1)

... the dailykos article over again, and then started clicking on the links. About 3 screens in, I did find a small amt of info on your wife's cousin. Said she was a nurse (I think) in a nursing home. I think she was across the store in another isle and hearing the gun shots going off was the reason for her heart attack. Time was around 9PM.

Give your wife my condolences.

Edited Fri, 8-8-14, 8:11pm EDT

[cui bono]

74. I don't think you should post that info. I would self-delete that out of respect

to the DUer related to them.

[FarPoint]

82. It's all over the news locally.

Just saying.

[FarPoint]

30. I'm so very sorry for your loss.

I understand that she was to be married on Saturday... So very sad....((((Hug)))..

[jtuck004]

14. "He didn't really want to be looked at and when people did look at him, he was pointing the gun

at them."

From the link.

If true, stupid dumb.

Lucky some citizen didn't pull out a gun and start blazing away, taking a couple of other shoppers out instead.

[TorchTheWitch]

20. he was threatening people in the store with this "toy"

and caused a panic. People were scared shitless and called the police saying there was a gunman walking up and down the aisles threatening people in the store. One woman died as a result of the panic collapsing and dying while trying to run away from him. Apparently she had some kind of medical condition. When police arrived he was ordered to drop the gun and apparently didn't causing the shooting by police.

I'm not seeing where the police were obligated to check the gun up close and personal to see if it was a toy or not, and for the safety of themselves and the people in the store who believed it was real and were terrorized by the guy SHOULD assume it's not a "toy". Actual toy guns have to have an orange tip to signify it's a toy, and this one didn't. It was apparently some type of real BB or pellet gun, which is not a toy and doesn't look like one. People in the store believed it was real, and the guy's actions of threatening people with it - including children - as though it was a real bullet-using rifle that was armed was beyond stupid, and the panic he knew he was causing should have been a big clue that what he was doing was an epically bad idea. One woman DID die because of his terrorizing actions.

Why in the world did he not just drop it when ordered to by the police? He had to have known what the outcome was going to be by not complying, and he certainly knew that everyone thought it was a real bullet-using rifle and that what he was doing with it was causing a panic.

I don't feel one ounce of sympathy for this asshole and don't give a shit what color he is. His actions caused a woman to collapse and die trying to run away from him, and he purposely terrorized everyone in the store. My sympathy is reserved for her. She was to be getting married on Saturday, but she's dead because of this guy terrorizing her and everyone else in the store.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/walmart-near-dayton-ohio-evacuated-after-gusnshots-fired-inside-store

[Egnever]

33. My guess

hopped up on paint or some similar stupid substance.

[Separation]

37. /thread

Very well said.

[BklnDem75]

41. If there was a panic, it was incited by those two 'concerned' citizens

An Ohio man is dead after police are called into a Walmart for reports of a man walking through the store with a rifle. It turns out, a law enforcement source for WHIO said, that it wasn't a real gun but a toy, either a BB or pellet gun, that he had opened at the store Tuesday night.

WHIO reported a couple were in the hardware department when they saw John Crawford walking past them with a rifle pointed toward the sky. They followed Crawford through the store as they called 911 and warned other shoppers to stay away.

One witness, Ronald Ritchie said Crawford "was just waving it at children and people. Items.... I couldn't hear anything that he was saying. I'm thinking that he is either going to rob the place or he's there to shoot somebody else." The man looked kind of serious, Ronald Ritchie said. "He didn't really want to be looked at and when people did look at him, he was pointing the gun at them. He was pointing at people, children walking by."

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/man-holding-realistic-looking-toy-gun-shot-killed-/ngxTX/

What a bunch of bs. No grown adult does this in real life, not even with pop guns. Dude was on the phone with the mother of his children, completely unaware two idiots created a deadly situation.

[savalez]

54. I agree.

"warned other shoppers to stay away"

That creates hysteria.


"I couldn't hear anything that he was saying"

He wasn't talking to himself. He had a cell phone between his shoulder and ear.


"The man looked kind of serious"

Compared to what?


"He didn't really want to be looked at and when people did look at him"

Completely normal.

[FarPoint]

86. George Zimmerman packaging...

Alarming, creating a crisis and centers around a black male.

[Number23]

97. What you say makes a hell of a lot of sense.

Dude was on the phone with the mother of his children, completely unaware two idiots created a deadly situation.

[LittleBlue]

48. The full story comes out

Shame what happened, but damn, you can't wave something that looks like a gun at children in a Walmart.

RIP to the guy who was shot and the woman who died.

[savalez]

52. Wow, you believe the report hook line and sinker.

I'll wait for them to release the surveillance video.

Try this. Go to walmart as a couple (man and woman) and act frightened and stop random people and tell them that there's a guy threatening people with a gun and see what happens. My guess, hysteria. When asked, most of those people will repeat the guy-with-a-gun story without ever having seeing it.

[cwydro]

83. Good post.

But the cop haters will not like your reasoning.

[FarPoint]

114. Many customers in the store.

Only one couple viewed him threatening... The former marine who followed him and his wife who was in a mobile cart. No other customers, even those with children did not feel threaten... No other 911 calls or fearful screaming... Nothing but the 911 aka George Zimmerman like call made by the ex marine. ....just trying to give a visual of the reported event.

[RandySF]

26. Careful

The gun people will try to force you put to put this on their forum so they can shout you down.

[Eleanors38]

98. Oh, not at all. Please do continue. Many views. nt

[KeepItReal]

28. Incitement by a the couple who called 911...overreaction by cops

Neither happens if it's a not a Black or Brown man.

[FarPoint]

29. The guy who called 911 is ex military....

He has been on TV news bragging at how he discovered this guy with a gun, followed him in store while on phone to 911. He painted an active shooter style scene. Said the guy didn't follow commands so it's his fault he is dead.....Oh, a nurse, 37 years old, was in a panic leaving the store and collapsed.... Died as well.

Go to the new web site WHIO news Dayton, Ohio. Several up to date reports and interviews. But...they may soon remove them to stifle the story. WHIO Facebook comments are filled with blaming the 22 year old with the toy gun...
I fear this will get twisted and the real victim will be painted as monster. This area is an NRA haven. The store is like 5 miles from Wright Pat AFB.

The ex military guy, I think his last name is Riche...reminds me of a George Zimmerman type.

[BklnDem75]

35. Ex military who couldn't tell the difference between a toy and real gun?

Smells like crap to me. Sounds like he got the outcome he was hoping for.

[FarPoint]

36. He thinks he is a hero.

His TV interviews are nauseating. There may still be clips on the WHIO TV site.

[HereSince1628]

39. Crossman models the gun to look real...that's basic to the jingoism

that surrounds firearms. Children want to "play army" to emulate adult "heroes" and apparently gun buyers are attracted to shooting military-styled weapons.

A bb gun needn't look like something it isn't. The picture in the article shows it has a flash suppressor, vented barrel-guard and what looks like a standard issue removable magazine. Those are purposeful features that are intended to make a bb gun look like something it is not.

Introduce the distortions introduced by fear, which might be amplified by racial biases or by aggressive appearing yet playful behavior of the person carrying it or both, and disaster ensues.

This is not the first time this has happened with 'a toy gun'. Consequently the risk are known, and -should- be anticipated by the manufacturer and the retailer.

It seems to me there is room to argue that Crossman and Walmart acted with indifference to the known risk of producing and retailing an item purposefully designed to have a deceptive appearance, an appearance the public and police consider to be a military 'assault' style look.

[rollin74]

72. it wasn't a toy, it was an air rifle

the mk-177 air rifle is based on and intended to resemble a bushmaster acr (real firearm)

[FarPoint]

84. It's sold in the toy area and not behind a counter.

Stocked on open shelf. No required service assistant ...no locked safety cabinet...

[cui bono]

76. I thought the gun the victim was holding was from Wal-Mart, that he picked it up in the store?

If that's the case why was this ex-marine following him into the store?

[FarPoint]

80. He did not bring the toy gun into the store.

It was in the toy section. I believe he was shot in the next aisle, pet supplies. He picked up toy gun in that store.

[Niceguy1]

31. he was waving it

At customers and scaring people. ......it may turn out to be justified.

[Beaverhausen]

46. According to one source

Has anyone else made this claim? Let's wait for the video.

[gwheezie]

32. My grandson is black

He's only 10 but his dad said he will never have a toy gun for the very reason young black males get killed if they appear to be any kind of threat. My grandson already knows the rules that he has to follow that his white friends don't think twice about. My son in law will reinforce those rules to keep him alive.
People act stupid in front of cops all the time. You almost expect it. The cops don't get called because someone is acting right so I expect cops to be able to deal with it. I don't blame anyone for calling the cops. I blame the cops.

[liberalhistorian]

43. Not only do I expect them to be able to

deal with stupid people, as you say, but I would certainly expect them to be able to tell a fucking toy gun from a REAL gun. I'm sorry, but that's the least I would expect from them. And if the guy hadn't been black, I really don't think the hero-wannabe busybodies would have even bothered to call 911.

[justiceischeap]

45. I didn't play with toy guns a lot as a kid

but didn't they used to have bright orange tips so you could tell it was a toy? The image of the gun he was supposedly carrying around, pointing at people, looks like a real gun to me.

[libodem]

44. This fits here, too

. [img][/img]

[liberalhistorian]

47. Oh, that is perfect!

Wish I could find a way to post that on FB and piss off some RW family, lol!

[cui bono]

77. Do you not have a Facebook page?

Or do you need help in how to do it?

If you want to save the pic to your computer just right click it and "save image as" or something similar to that. Save it where you want and then post to FB. I do not use FB so I don't know the exact instructions for that part, but it should be simple, or someone else can finish teaching the course.

[nilesobek]

49. A police officer told me, in the last few weeks,

that they are being overwhelmed by petty reports from citizens. Most of them turn out to be unfounded. He says its mainly the same people doing the calling over and over and over. Some people just want to call the cops.

[dilby]

51. Well it was the suggestion of many of people here on this site.

I could go back and find the original thread but there are a lot of people on this site who will call the cops the second they see a gun or what they think is a gun.

[unblock]

57. what a surprise, when the government puts ads out begging people "see something, say something".

[NutmegYankee]

79. There was an open carry, call 911 movement

https://www.facebook.com/opencarry911, but the site has since deleted. I know several DUers supported calling the police on anyone open carrying. This is the inevitable result.

[truebluegreen]

103. I'd call it the inevitable result of open carrying...

[NutmegYankee]

105. I chimed in because people were attacking the person who called police as a racist.

But many had themselves expressed that they would so the same if they saw open carry. It's hypocritical. I myself don't support open carry (except in designated hunting locations), but recognize that it is legal in many jurisdictions.

[truebluegreen]

110. OK.

Sorry I overreacted. The open-carry advocates make me crazy.

[BronxBoy]

59. I heard a report on the radio this morning.........

that a mother called the cops to her home on her young son because-------He was watching porn!

Oy vey!!!!!

I'm going to reserve judgement on this one until more info is released. As a Black man, no way in hell would I pick up a gun like that and wander around a store.

I do wonder if anyone else called the cops. Given our recent history of mass shootings, it seems to me that people would have been stampeding out that place.

[nilesobek]

61. Yes. Good points all.

Why wasn't there a stampede? Really good question. Just speculation here but maybe the original report of the black man "pointing the gun in the air," is exaggerated or a falsehood. This wouldn't surprise me.

[dilby]

50. I am pretty sure they don't have BB Guns in the toy aisle.

They are usually kept in the sporting good isle and they are kept in boxes not out for you to walk around with and scare the crap out of customers. What this guy did was dumb and it cost him his life and the life of an innocent woman.

[savalez]

93. Wrong, they are in an isle.

Here's the actual photo

What this guy did was dumb and it cost him his life and the life of an innocent woman.

Please share the surveillance video that you saw of him doing any of what the 911 caller says he did. You know, the "dumb" stuff.

It is possible that he was merely checking out a product. How was he to know that a customer (an ex marine no less) was going to be afraid of him and start a panic? Should Mr. Crawford have thought, "Gee, I'm not an out-of-shape-white-guy-trying-to-make-a-political-point - I'm black - so maybe I shouldn't check out this pellet gun that Walmart sells"?

[dilby]

94. Thanks for proving my point.

That is the sporting aisle like I said and they are in boxes like I said. He was shot in the toy aisle with it not in the box like the report says.

[savalez]

96. Oh that's right!

Everybody knows that you're not supposed to take products from one isle to another. That's why they have cash registers and exit doors at the end of each one! If fact, I went there to buy milk, cereal and oranges and it took me 3 round trips through the parking lot.

[Historic NY]

56. Just what happened to the Federal Mandate on orange tips???

I own an airsoft it has one...

[pokerfan]

71. It's complicated

Although airsoft guns in the United States are generally sold with a 6mm (0.24in.) or longer orange tip on the barrel in order to distinguish them from real firearms, this is not in fact required by federal law. Manufacturers and importers may cite Title 15 of the Code of Federal Regulations, which stipulates that "no person shall manufacture, enter into commerce, ship, transport, or receive any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm" without approved markings; these may include an orange tip, orange barrel plug, brightly colored exterior of the whole toy, or transparent construction (part 272.2, formerly part 1150.2). However, section 272.1 (formerly 1150.1) clearly indicates that these restrictions shall not apply to "traditional B-B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of compressed air, compressed gas or mechanical spring action, or any combination thereof." [18] This language clearly exempts airsoft guns from these requirements, placing them in the same category as bb-guns, pellet, air, and paintball, none of which are conventionally sold or used with an orange tip, and many of which bear as much resemblance to real firearms as airsoft guns do.[19] Another difficulty the airsoft-playing community has with a legal or mandatory requirement for any orange-tipped or bright-colored paint on all airsoft guns is that lawless elements could deliberately paint real guns to have orange-tips or make them look like airsoft guns and thus cause more harm or alarm for the public.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft#Orange-tipped_airsoft_gun_muzzles

[NutmegYankee]

81. Airsoft guns are toys. Pellet rifles are not.

Anything with a velocity over about 460 fps has not been considered a toy and has never been allowed to have the blaze orange tip.

[Lurks Often]

58. Here is a picture of the air rifle in question

directly from the maker's website:




and company link so no one thinks I am making things up: http://www.crosman.com/airguns/rifles/pump/30110


As for the everything else, I will wait for ALL the facts to come out.

[MineralMan]

62. NOT a toy gun. It is a real air rifle that fires lead pellets.

I wrote another reply, just below. NOT A TOY!

[Lurks Often]

63. And where did I say it was a toy gun?

I'm perfectly aware of what an air rifle is and that they can be dangerous.

[MineralMan]

64. I neither said nor implied that you called it a toy.

Others in the thread did, though, which is why I wrote my reply below.

[Lurks Often]

66. It certainly came across that way

Oh well, not a big deal

[MineralMan]

69. Well, you certainly interpreted it that way.

I was actually agreeing with you.

[MineralMan]

60. This was NOT a toy gun, sadly.

It's a .177 air rifle that shoots either lead pellets or bbs. It's one of Crosman's multiple pump air rifles, designed to look sort of military. There's no orange tip on it, because it is not a toy. When fully pumped up, it fires a .177 caliber lead pellet at over 600 feet per second. If that pellet hits you, it will penetrate the skin, at least. It can put out an eye, and can even lead to a fatal injury in some circumstances.

There was definitely an over-reaction on the police's part here, but saying that it was a toy gun simply isn't accurate. Air rifles and pistols that fire lead pellets or BBs are considered firearms in almost all jurisdictions. They can easily kill small animals, and have the potential for being deadly against humans, too, although fatalities are quite rare from these weapons.

Walmart does sell this Crosman model, for about $85. NOT a toy at all, and you won't find it in the toy section.

[BronxBoy]

65. Aren't these usually boxed up???

I've seen BB guns at WalMart, not this particular one, but I have seen them.

But they have always been in boxes in the sporting goods department

[MineralMan]

67. Yes, of course they are.

The person could easily have unpacked it, though. Or perhaps he brought it into the store. I have no idea. But, yes, they would be sold in the sporting goods department. He could have bought it there, unpacked it, and was carrying it around. That information isn't in the article, though.

[NutmegYankee]

78. Other links on the local site stated that he didn't have it when he entered, and

there was an empty pellet rifle box in the store. Putting the two together...

[Inkfreak]

73. Cops are the most dangerous people in America (nt)

[NickB79]

85. I've handled unboxed pellet guns in Walmart before

Like most of Walmart, the section with pellet guns is usually in disarray, open boxes, boxes on the floor, no employees in sight. Earlier this year, I was even looking at and handling one of these that someone else had left lying around:

I most certainly will NOT be doing that, ever again

[yodermon]

88. pic of rifle (from article)

[CincyDem]

89. Officer's "second" shooting victim in 5 years

Local Cincinnati news reported that the officer involved was also the officer involved in a shooting of "questionable circumstances" in early 2010. He was cleared in that event and returned to active duty.

At the same time, another big local story is about a pit bull who killed the owner's mother. Mauled her in their back yard. No witnesses so no story. Community outcry ensured and the dog was eventually turned over to be put down. One of our local radio guys made the comment "the dog has to be put down...once it gets the taste of blood it will always be a risk".

So...I'm wondering how these two stories go together.

I'm certainly not suggest that an officer be "put down" but I do have to confess, there's something that makes sense about taking an officer off the street if he's involved in a questionable shooting. I know cops that didn't pull their gun in 35 years on the force, let alone shoot it, let alone kill someone.

But once that happens, if feels like there should be a desk job in the future...however long that future may be.

[DiverDave]

99. WE WORK FOR YOU!!

fucking pigs.

[avebury]

101. Walmart should be forced to post a warning:

Caution: Shopper may be shot if seen checking out toy guns.

[marshall]

104. And they should put orange tips on the muzzles of toy guns

That is the law, and helps police and others know the difference.

[NutmegYankee]

106. Pellet rifles can't have orange tips.

They are not toys and can seriously harm people if it hits them. Many air powered pellet rifles can project a .177 caliber BB/pellet to a velocity of 700-900 feet per second (fps). I owned one that was rated for 950 fps made by Crossman many years ago. A .22LR handgun round travels at about 950-1100 fps.

By comparison, the Red Ryder BB guns of old would use a spring to propel a BB at 350 fps. Airsoft, a popular sport similar to paintball, is normally limited to no more than 400 fps.

[MineralMan]

107. Pellet air rifles are not toy guns.

They're real guns. Crosman variable pump air rifles fire a .177 caliber pellet at up to 750 feet per second. Not toys by any definition.

The police overreacted, but this was not a toy gun.

[NutmegYankee]

108. Look at the velocities on these in the newpaper photo

http://www.daytondailynews.com/photo/news/photo-beavercreek-walmart-day-after-incident-shows/pCMxpP/

1200 & 1300 fps! That's faster than a handgun fired .22LR!

[MineralMan]

109. Some air rifles do generate that kind of velocity.

The one in the story, though, is rated at 750 fps, max by Crosman. About the same as a .22 short, although the weight of the pellet is much smaller. Still, pellets fired from air guns have killed people. They've also blinded people. Not a toy, by any means.