Hamas could have chosen peace. Instead, it made Gaza suffer.

[Fozzledick]

By Dennis Ross August 8 at 3:36 PM

Dennis Ross, counselor at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, served as President Bill Clinton’s Middle East negotiator and was a special assistant to President Obama from 2009 to 2011.


In the winter of 2005, Ziad Abu Amr, a Gaza representative in the Palestinian Legislative Council, invited me to speak in Gaza City. As I entered the building for the event, I saw Mahmoud al-Zahar, one of the co-founders of Hamas. Before I could say anything, Ziad explained: “We decided to invite the opposition to hear you. We think it is important that they do so.”

I had not expected senior Hamas leaders to be there, but it didn’t alter my main message. Israel was slated to withdraw from the Gaza Strip in several months, so I emphasized that this was a time of opportunity for Palestinians — they should seize it. I told the audience of roughly 200 Gazans that this was a moment to promote Palestinian national aspirations.

If they took advantage of the Israeli withdrawal to peacefully develop Gaza, the international community and the Israelis would see that what was working in Gaza could also be applied to the West Bank. However, I then asked rhetorically: If Palestinians instead turn Gaza into a platform for attacks against Israel, who is going to favor an Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank and the creation of a Palestinian state?
...
Unfortunately, we know the path Hamas chose. Even as Israel was completing the process of withdrawing all its settlers and soldiers from Gaza, Hamas carried out a bus-station bombing in Israel. Then, from late 2005 to early 2006, Hamas conducted multiple attacks on the very crossing points that allowed people and goods to move into and out of Gaza. For Hamas, it was more important to continue “resistance” than to allow Gazans to constructively test their new freedom — or to give Israelis a reason to think that withdrawal could work. Some argue that Israel withdrew but imposed a siege on Gaza. In reality, Hamas produced the siege. Israel’s tight embargo on Gaza came only after ongoing Hamas attacks.

The embargo on Gaza might have hurt the Palestinians who live there, but it did not stop Hamas from building a labyrinth of underground tunnels, bunkers, command posts and shelters for its leaders, fighters and rockets. The tunnels are under houses, schools, hospitals and mosques; they allow Hamas fighters to go down one shaft and depart from another. According to the Israeli army, an estimated 600,000 tons of cement — some of it smuggled through tunnels from Egypt, some diverted from construction materials allowed into Gaza — was used for Hamas’s underground network.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/hamas-could-have-chosen-peace-instead-it-made-gaza-suffer/2014/08/08/eefd2b48-1d83-11e4-82f9-2cd6fa8da5c4_story.html

[4now]

1. Israel could have chosen not to murder it's neighbors children

but it didn't.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025353523
Today I saw a picture of a weeping Palestinian man holding a plastic carrier bag of meat. It was his son. He’d been shredded (the hospital’s word) by an Israeli missile attack – apparently using their fab new weapon, fléchette bombs. You probably know what those are – hundreds of small steel darts packed around explosive which tear the flesh off humans. The boy was Mohammed Khalaf al-Nawasra. He was four years old.
I suddenly found myself thinking that it could have been one of my kids in that bag, and that thought upset me more than anything has for a long time.

[oberliner]

16. Indeed

Someone needs to try some outside of the box thinking here at some point otherwise this will keep repeating itself.

[BillZBubb]

21. Precisely!

The Israeli apologists blaming Hamas for Israeli atrocities is pathetic.

[former9thward]

25. The Hamas apologists blaming Israel for Hamas atrocities is pathetic.

[RedFury]

30. Give both sides...

...the same weapons and American aid & let's see who apologizes to whom.

[former9thward]

41. The Arab militaries were well armed by the Soviet Union.

They didn't apologize. They just lost.

[AgingAmerican]

31. Israel drove 80% of the population out of Palestine in 1948

They ethnically cleansed Palestine of Palestinians. They forced them on an exodus.

IN 1967 when Israel captured territory in the 6 day war, they drove another 300,000 Palestinians out of captured areas.

By 2000, there was stability between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Tens of thousands of Palestinians crossed back and forth over the border daily into Israel. Terrorist attacks were rare.

This peaceful situation was unacceptable to Ariel Sharon, who went On September 28, 2000, the Israeli opposition leader together with a Likud party delegation surrounded by hundreds of Israeli riot police, visited the Al-Aqsa Mosque, an Islamic holy site. This idiotic act sparked what is now known as the Second Intifada.

The Second Intifada still goes on to this day. The extreme right of Israel created this situation.

[former9thward]

40. No, they did not drive "80% of the population" out.

The Arab armies did. They told the Palestinians to leave so they would have free reign to kill all the Jews. The Palestinians, wanting all the land, did so. The Arab armies lost and abandoned the Palestinians.

[Douglas Carpenter]

43. that is simply NOT true!

to quote former Israeli Foreign Minister, Shlomo Ben-Ami from his book, Scars of War Wounds of Peace: The Arab Israeli Tragedy

from page 42:

"The reality on the ground was at times far simpler and more cruel than what Ben-Gurion was ready to acknowledge. It was that of an Arab community in a state of terror facing a ruthless Israeli army whose path to victory was paved not only by its exploits against the regular Arab armies, but also by the intimidation, at at times atrocities and massacres it perpetrated against the civilian Arab community. A panic-stricken Arab community was uprooted under the impact of massacres that would be carved into the Arabs' monument of grief and hatred."


and from page 43:

" Benny Morris found no evidence to show 'that either the leaders of the Arab states or the Mufti ordered or directly encouraged the mass exodus'. Indeed Morris found evidence to the effect that the local Arab leadership and militia commanders discouraged flight, and the Arab radio stations issued calls to the Palestinians to stay put, and even to return to their homes if they had already left. True, there were more than a few cases where local Arab commanders ordered the evacuation of villages. But these seemed to gave been tactical decisions taken under very specific military conditions..."

From page 44:

"The first major wave of Arab exodus in April-May 1948, essentially in the wake of the Dir Yassin massacre that was perpetrated by Lehi and Irgun with the Haganah's connivance and the unfolding of Plan D, might perhaps have taken the leadership of the Yishuv by surprise. But they undoubtedly saw an opportunity to be exploited, a phenomenon to rejoice at -- Manachem Begin wrote in his memoirs, The Revolt, that 'out of evil, however, good came-and be encouraged. 'Doesn't he have anything more important to do?' was Ben-Gurion's reaction when told, during his visit to Haifa on 1 May 1948 that a local Jewish leader was trying to convince Arabs not to leave. 'Drive them out!' was Ben-Gurion's instruction to Yigal Allon, as recorded by Yitzak Rabin in a censored passage of his memoirs published in a censored passage of his memoirs published in 1979, with regard to the Arabs of Lydda after the city had been taken over on 11 July 1948....Plan D, however, was a major cause for the exodus, for it was strategically driven by the notion of creating Jewish contiguity even beyond the partition lines and, therefore by the desire to have a Jewish state with the smallest number of Arabs.

from page 44:

"The debate about whether or not the mass exodus of Palestinians was the result of a Zionist design or the inevitable concomitant of war could not ignore the ideological constructs that motivated the Zionist enterprise. The philosophy of transfer was not a marginal, esoteric article....These ideological constructs provided a legitimate environment for commanders in the field to encourage the eviction of the local population even when no precise order to that effect was issued by the political leaders. As early as February 1948, that is before the mass exodus had started but after he witnessed how Arabs had fled West Jerusalem, Ben-Gurion could not hide his excitement."

"Ben-Gurion's reaction when told, during his visit to Haifa on 1 May 1948 that a local Jewish leader was trying to convince Arabs not to leave. 'Drive them out!' was Ben-Gurion's instruction to Yigal Allon, as recorded by Yitzak Rabin in a censored passage of his memoirs published in a censored passage of his memoirs published in 1979, with regard to the Arabs of Lydda after the city had been taken over on 11 July 1948....Plan D, however, was a major cause for the exodus, for it was strategically driven by the notion of creating Jewish contiguity even beyond the partition lines and, therefore by the desire to have a Jewish state with the smallest number of Arabs.

[former9thward]

44. That book is a score settling book.

If you want to believe its BS, go ahead.

In their report published in 2003, the Or Commission held him responsible for the behavior of security forces during the October 2000 riots in which Israeli police killed 12 Israeli Arabs and one Palestinian, and failed to predict and control rioting which resulted in the death of a Jewish Israeli. The report recommended that Ben-Ami be disqualified from serving as Internal Security Minister in the future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shlomo_Ben-Ami

[Douglas Carpenter]

45. well if you don't accept the history from the standpoint of a former Israeli Foreign Minister

this article by world renowned Israeli hisorian Avi Shlaim of Oxford regarding transfer:

London Review of Books, 9 June 1994.

link to full article:

"While the ethics of transfer had never troubled Ben-Gurion unduly, the growing strength of the Yishuv eventually convinced him of its practical feasibility. On 12 July 1937, for instance, Ben-Gurion confided to his diary:

The compulsory transfer of the Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had ... a Galilee free from Arab population .... We must uproot from our hearts the assumption that the thing is not possible. It can be done.

The more Ben-Gurion thought about it, the more convinced he became that "the thing" could not only be done but had to be done. On 5 October 1937, he wrote to his son with startling candour:

We must expel Arabs and take their places ... and, if we have to use force - not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places - then we have force at our disposal.

The letter reveals not only the extent to which partition became associated in Ben Gurion's mind with the expulsion of Arabs from the Jewish state but also the nature and extent of his territorial expansionism. The letter implied that the area allocated for the Jewish state by the Peel Commission will later be expanded to include the Negev and Transjordan. Like Vladimir Jabotinsky, the founder and leader of Revisionist Zionism, Ben-Gurion was a territorial maximalist. Unlike Jabotinsky, Ben-Gurion believed that the territorial aims of Zionism could best be advanced by means of a gradualist strategy.

When the UN voted in favour of the partition of Palestine on 29 November 1947, the struggle for Palestine entered its decisive phase. Ben-Gurion and his colleagues in the Jewish Agency accepted the partition plan despite deep misgivings about the prospect of a substantial Arab minority, a fifth column as they saw it, in their midst. the Palestinians rejected the partition plan with some vehemence as illegal, immoral and impractical. By resorting to force to frustrate the UN plan, they presented Ben-Gurion with an opportunity, which he was not slow to exploit, for extending the borders of the proposed Jewish state and for reducing the number of Arabs inside it. By 7 November 1949, when the guns finally fell silent, 730,000 persons, or 80 per cent of the Arab population of Palestine, had become refugees. "

link to full article:

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/It%20Can%20Be%20Done.html

[Jefferson23]

46. It's disappointing the evidence that is rejected out of hand..especially in this case. n/t

[MFM008]

67. exactly

with some people you may as well talk to the cat.

[Jefferson23]

69. It is an indication of how much effort is placed on the propaganda for this conflict...fierce. n/t

[former9thward]

52. We can trade quotes all day.

Since 1948 Arab leaders have approached the Palestine problem
in an irresponsible manner.... they have used the Palestine
people for selfish political purposes. This is ridiculous and,
I could say, even criminal.
-- King Hussein of Jordan, 1960

Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of the refugees... while it is we who made them leave.... We brought disaster upon ... Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave.... We have rendered them dispossessed.... We have accustomed them to begging.... We have participated in lowering their moral and social level.... Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson, and throwing bombs upon ... men, women and children-all this in the service of political purposes .
-- Khaled Al-Azm, Syria's Prime Minister after the 1948 war

District Police Headquarters
(C.I.D.)
P.O.B. 700.
Haifa.
26th April, 1948.
S E C R E T
A/A.I.G., C.I.D.

Subject:- General Situation Haifa District.

Haifa remains quiet. Yesterday produced a noticeable change in the general atmosphere and businesses and shops in the lower town were open for the first time in many days. Traffic started to move normally around the:town and people returning to the places of business filled the streets. In fact, Haifa presented a more normal appearance than it had done for a long while. Some Arabs were seen moving among the Jews in the lower town and German Colony area and these were allowed free and unmolested passage. An appeal has been made to the Arabs by the Jews to reopen their shops and businesses in order to relieve the difficulties of feeding the Arab population. Evacuation was still going on yesterday and several trips were made by 'Z' craft to Acre. Roads too, were crowded with people leaving Haifa with all their belongings. At a meeting yesterday afternoon Arab leaders reiterated their determination to evacuate the entire Arab population and they have been given the loan of ten 3-ton military trucks as from this morning to assist the evacuation.

Yesterday morning a Jew attempted to pass the drop barrier of Police H.Q. facing Palmers Gate wheeling a barrow. He was shot and killed by a Police sentry.

At 0640 hrs. yesterday Tireh village was again attacked with mortar fire. Casualties and damage not known.

A report has been received from Military to the effect that at 23.50 hrs. yesterday Jews attacked Acre from the direction of Ein Hamifratz and Tall al Pukhkhar. An advance Party succeeded in demolishing three houses in the Manshiya Quarter and then heavy mortar fire was directed at the town. Several mortar bombs landed in Acre Prison and all the inmates have escaped. The British Warden staff are safe. Military proceeded to the scene and opened fire with artillery on Ein Hemifratz. The Jews thereupon withdrew and a convoy of 11 vehicles was seen proceeding in the direction of Haifa. casualties to both sides are not known.

(A.J. Bidmead.)
for SUPERINTENDENT OF POLICE




But at the end of the day you will believe what you want to fit your agenda. And I will do the same.

[Douglas Carpenter]

55. NYT April 22, 1948:The Arabs agreed to leave Haifa by sea as a surrender condition to Zionist forces

and to stop the bombardment and mortar fire.

April 23, 1948, Friday
By DANA ADAMS SCHMIDT Special to THE NEW YORK TIMES.
Page 1, 1038 words

Title of article: "JEWS SEIZE HAIFA IN FURIOUS BATTLE; ARABS AGREE TO GO. Evacuation of Key Palestine Port Is Commenced in Face of Surrender "

DISPLAYING FIRST PARAGRAPH - JERUSALEM, April 22 -- The Haganah, Zionist militia, today swooped upon and occupied Haifa, Palestine's only deep-water port, in a furious battle, in which scores of Jews and Arabs were killed.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9402E1D81738EE3BBC4B51DFB2668383659EDE

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as the Jewish Mayor of Haifa attempting to convince Arabs to stay - yes that is absolutely true - But to quote again Shlomo Ben Ami's book:


Ben-Gurion's reaction when told, during his visit to Haifa on 1 May 1948 that a local Jewish leader was trying to convince Arabs not to leave. 'Drive them out!' was Ben-Gurion's instruction to Yigal Allon, as recorded by Yitzak Rabin in a censored passage of his memoirs published in a censored passage of his memoirs published in 1979

From page 44: Scars of War Wounds of Peace: The Arab Israeli Tragedy

------------------------------------------------------------




On the more broader subject, if ethnic cleansing had not occurred, there would have hardly been a need to destroy several hundred Palestinian villages, cease their bank accounts and personal belongings and establish extraordinary efforts to prevent return to their home and their homeland.

Chaim Weizmann, who became Israel's first president, hailed the Arab evacuation as "a miraculous clearing of the land: the miraculous simplification of Israel's task."

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/It%20Can%20Be%20Done.html

[Blue Meany]

61. Ironically, this incident is what led to the famous

(but largely fabricated) quote about Arabs driving the Jews into the sea. An Arab spokesman, whose name I have forgotten, was asked what would happen if the they won, and he replied that the Jews who been born in Palestine would be allowed to stay, but there would be boats waiting for the others, just as there had been for Arabs in Haifa. This, of course, morphed into something quite when it was spread around by the press.

[AgingAmerican]

48. You actually believe this?

lol

[Spider Jerusalem]

50. Nope

that didn't happen.

In the opening pages of "The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem", Benny Morris offers the outlines of an overall answer: using a map that shows the 369 Arab towns and villages in Israel (within its 1949 borders), he lists, area by area, the reasons for the departure of the local population (9). In 45 cases he admits that he does not know. The inhabitants of the other 228 localities left under attack by Jewish troops, and in 41 cases they were expelled by military force. In 90 other localities, the Palestinians were in a state of panic following the fall of a neighbouring town or village, or for fear of an enemy attack, or because of rumours circulated by the Jewish army - particularly after the 9 April 1948 massacre of 250 inhabitants of Deir Yassin, where the news of the killings swept the country like wildfire.

By contrast, he found only six cases of departures at the instigation of local Arab authorities. "There is no evidence to show that the Arab states and the AHC wanted a mass exodus or issued blanket orders or appeals to the Palestinians to flee their homes (though in certain areas the inhabitants of specific villages were ordered by Arab commanders or the AHC to leave, mainly for strategic reasons)." ("The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem", p. 129). On the contrary, anyone who fled was actually threatened with "severe punishment". As for the broadcasts by Arab radio stations allegedly calling on people to flee, a detailed listening to recordings of their programmes of that period shows that the claims were invented for pure propaganda.

http://mondediplo.com/1997/12/palestine

[former9thward]

54. See post #52.

Everybody can cite anybody to fit their version. Have fun with yours...

[Spider Jerusalem]

56. Sorry, but that refers very specifically to the single town of Haifa.

Which wasn't the whole of Palestine and doesn't materially alter the situation more broadly. You may think that's a "gotcha", but isolated instances of evacuation (as noted by Benny Morris, "for strategic reasons&quot are taken into account by historians examining the Palestinian refugee crisis of 1948 (and the conclusion is still that it was generally the result of a deliberate policy of expulsion).

[AgingAmerican]

57. Then why didn't they come back

...after it was all over? Please explain.

[former9thward]

60. They have been hoping for generations to come back as conquers.

The Arab states have used them cynically for decades for their own ends. Always promising them that the 'Jews will be driven to the sea'. Now it is no longer possible to come back.

[AgingAmerican]

63. You actually believe this?

You openly support ethnic cleansing, AKA genocide, in Israel.

[former9thward]

64. Do you have "You actually believe this?" cut/paste in your computer?

Seems to be the subject line of your posts. And since you ask the question it makes me think you post things you don't actually believe.

[AgingAmerican]

65. Shame

You offer no denial

[former9thward]

66. To someone whose content in posts is "lol"

Or strawmen. No denial is needed.

[appal_jack]

47. Hamas apologists denying Israel's right to exist - right here.

Last edited Sat Aug 9, 2014, 08:29 PM - Edit history (1)

The state of Israel was authorized by UN Resolution 181:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Establishment_of_the_State_of_Israel

Now, this resolution defined smaller borders for Israel than the territory it currently holds, and the same resolution also authorized an independent state of Palestine. But the Palestinians (most recently via their sometimes-elected representation of Hamas) have refused to recognize Israel for the nearly 70 years since. The wars and terrorist actions that Palestinians (sometimes in conjunction with Arab states) turned out rather poorly (from the Arab perspective). These wars have consequences: namely, less territory than the 1948 resolution would have provided to Palestine.

Funny how Hamas apologists tout all the various anti-Israel UN resolutions endlessly, but the very first Resolution on Israel is dismissed as "ethnic cleansing." That there is some propagandistic bullshit.

Real negotiations will not move forward until the Palestinian side recognizes that it is not 1948, it is not 1967, it is not 1972. It is 2014, and the poor choices made by the PLO, Hamas,and other Palestinian factions in the past determine what is possible now. Israel has every reason to keep much of the territory it occupied in 1967, and it is not 'apartheid' for them to negotiate from this position.

-app

[Spider Jerusalem]

51. Nope

right of conquest is not recognised under international law and hasn't been since the inception of the UN Charter.

[AgingAmerican]

59. Show where Israel affirms Palestine's right to exist

Thanks in advance.

[Spider Jerusalem]

2. Israel could have had peace over a decade ago.

Arik wouldn't give up the settlements, though.

[oberliner]

17. Date on that article is May 2001

I wonder what Hamas was up to at that time?

Netanya centre bombing January 1, 2001 Netanya 60 injured Hamas claimed responsibility.

Beit Yisrael bombing February 8, 2001 Jerusalem 2 injured Hamas claimed responsibility.

Netanya bombing March 4, 2001 Netanya 3 Hamas claimed responsibility.

Egged bus 6 bombing March 27, 2001 French Hill, Jerusalem 28 injured Hamas claimed responsibility.

Or Yehuda bombing April 23, 2001 Near Ben Gurion Airport 8 injured Hamas claimed responsibility.

HaSharon Mall suicide bombing May 18, 2001 HaSharon shopping mall, Netanya 5 Hamas claimed responsibility.

[Spider Jerusalem]

19. And?

A settlement freeze was a condition of peace negotiations on the part of the Palestinians. (And importantly Hamas at the time were not part of the Palestinian authority government; Fatah carried 88% of the vote in the 1996 Palestinian election.)

[former9thward]

26. Until Fatah leaders were murdered in Gaza by Hamas.

I guess you forgot that fact.

[oberliner]

38. Had a deal been made, Hamas would have continued to ramp up attacks

One could only imagine what the results may have been.

[Purveyor]

3. None of this would be happening if israel was not practicing apartheid against

the Palestinian people.

It is no wonder at all why the people of Palestine voted for the Hamas leadership. What other options did they have.

More apartheid?

[Fozzledick]

5. Whenever I see someone use the fraudulent "apartheid" propaganda meme

I know they're not honest enough to take seriously.

[morningfog]

6. You seem to have a hard time focusing on the issue rather than the DUer.

[Fozzledick]

10. Not at all. The claim is a hateful fraud and part of a malicious propaganda campaign.

Whenever I see it used, I know where it's coming from and the pro-war agenda behind it.

[morningfog]

13. Please. Whatever you tell yourself you are doing, you routinely personally attack DUers.

And it helps to make DU suck. Issues. Issues are fair game, posters are not.

[Bohunk68]

39. Thank you.

[Purveyor]

11. That's desperation in all its glory. I would worry I was being thorough if it

was otherwise.

[m-lekktor]

9. after watching the excellent documentary "roadmap to apartheid"

i beg to differ.

[4now]

15. That is a very interesting looking documentary trailer

I hope I can find the complete video.
Thanks for posting the link.
Here is a link to the videos webpage.
http://roadmaptoapartheid.org/

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. ...

From every West Bank Palestinian village, from every reservoir and power grid that is for Jews only; apartheid screams from every demolished tent encampment and every verdict of the military court; from every nighttime arrest, every checkpoint, every eviction order and every settlement home. No, Israel is not an apartheid state, but for nearly 50 years an apartheid regime has ruled its occupied territories. Those who want to continue to live a lie, to repress and to deny are invited to visit Hebron. No honest, decent person could return without admitting the existence of apartheid. Those who fear that politically incorrect word have only to walk for a few minutes down Shuhada Street, with its segregated road and sidewalks, and their fear of using the forbidden word will vanish without a trace.

The history of the conflict is filled with forbidden words. Once upon a time, it was forbidden to say “Palestinians” was forbidden, after that came the prohibitions against saying “occupation,” “war crime,” “colonialism” or “binational state.” Now “apartheid” is prohibited.

The forbidden words paralyze debate. Did you let the word “apartheid” slip out? The truth is no longer important. But no political correctness or bowdlerization, however sanctimonious, can conceal reality forever. And the reality is an occupation regime of apartheid.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.588252

The most accurate way to describe Israel today is as an apartheid state. For more than 42 years, Israel has controlled the land between the Jordan Valley and the Mediterranean Sea. Within this region about 6 million Jews and close to 5 million Palestinians reside. Out of this population, 3.5 million Palestinians and almost half a million Jews live in the areas Israel occupied in 1967, and yet while these two groups live in the same area, they are subjected to totally different legal systems. The Palestinians are stateless and lack many of the most basic human rights. By sharp contrast, all Jews -- whether they live in the occupied territories or in Israel -- are citizens of the state of Israel.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/20/opinion/oe-gordon20

Most of the Jewish public in Israel supports the establishment of an apartheid regime in Israel if it formally annexes the West Bank.

A majority also explicitly favors discrimination against the state's Arab citizens, a survey shows.

The survey, conducted by Dialog on the eve of Rosh Hashanah, exposes anti-Arab, ultra-nationalist views espoused by a majority of Israeli Jews. The survey was commissioned by the Yisraela Goldblum Fund and is based on a sample of 503 interviewees.

The questions were written by a group of academia-based peace and civil rights activists. Dialog is headed by Tel Aviv University Prof. Camil Fuchs.

The majority of the Jewish public, 59 percent, wants preference for Jews over Arabs in admission to jobs in government ministries. Almost half the Jews, 49 percent, want the state to treat Jewish citizens better than Arab ones; 42 percent don't want to live in the same building with Arabs and 42 percent don't want their children in the same class with Arab children.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/survey-most-israeli-jews-wouldn-t-give-palestinians-vote-if-west-bank-was-annexed.premium-1.471644

[awoke_in_2003]

24. if it isn't apartheid...

then what the hell is it?

[Jefferson23]

68. I think the more apt question is, how close does a country need to get to that definiton before

they're stopped?

Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 09:08 AM PDT
U.S. CENTCOM General: If Kerry-led Peace Talks Fail, Israel May Become an "Apartheid" State

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/22/1225584/-U-S-CENTCOM-General-If-Kerry-led-Peace-Talks-Fail-Israel-May-Become-an-Apartheid-State#

[RedFury]

32. Might as well

Call me "The Joker." 'cept I am totally serious as is most of the sane world -- though they they lack the balls to confront the US-backed, Israeli butchery in Gaza.

[LTX]

36. The willfully blind and unabashed pro-Hamas support around this place is stunning.

The responses in this thread alone, replete with historical revisionism and mindless repetition of a purely fanciful, decidedly juvenile, and painfully simplistic Comic-Con meme portraying Hamas as innocent, Elfin freedom fighters and Israel as Mordor, speaks volumes about the honesty and seriousness of the posters.

I'll add that, when Dennis Ross speaks, everybody should listen.

[AgingAmerican]

49. Apartheid

"A policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race."

Yep, it's apartheid. With the added bonus of genocide. Typical right wing extremist behavior.

[4now]

14. The world is standing up to Isreali apartheid

The Boycott, Divestment and Sanction movement is getting bigger everyday.
End Israeli apartheid:
Boycott, Divest, Sanction.
http://www.bdsmovement.net/

[former9thward]

27. The world is not.

Your imaginary world is.

[enid602]

28. APARTHEID

Latin America is standing against it. Europe is lukewarm; they absented on the UN condemnation, but their public is standing against it. Here in the US, all politicians blithely support Israel and dutifully recite the prescribed refrain that Israel has the right to defend itself, but most don't seem quite so energetic as in previous conflicts. Hollywood is silent, perhaps sensing a change in in public attitude.

[4now]

33. Petition asking White House to defund ‘apartheid’ Israel surpasses 100K signatures

A “We the People” petition urging the White House to condemn the “apartheid state of Israel” for its supposed human rights violations has well surpassed the required 100,000 signatures for an official response.

The petition, created July 5 by a Missouri resident by the name J.P., says its purpose is to “raise awareness of the plight of the Palestinian peoples under the Apartheid Regime in Israel.

“I seek recognition by my government that without our American tax dollars, Israel could not conduct such criminal acts against the civilian population of Palestine,” the petition reads.

Nearly 120,000 people had electronically signed the petition by Monday afternoon, just nine days after it was created.

The website states that petitioners have 30 days to get 100,000 signatures in order to get an official White House response.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/14/petition-asking-white-house-defund-apartheid-israe/

The Boycott, Divestment and Sanction movement is getting bigger everyday.
End Israeli apartheid:
Boycott, Divest, Sanction.
http://www.bdsmovement.net/

[former9thward]

42. 100k Israel haters out of 315 million.

Impressive!

[catnhatnh]

62. The perfect microcosm....

...in your little universe every signer MUST be an "Israel hater".

[oberliner]

18. Nor would it be happening if Hamas didn't spend the early 2000s blowing up Israeli civilians

Lots of players here could have made some different choices.

[Purveyor]

23. Clawing our way back to the earlier 2000's eh? The "Bulldozer/Butcher" Sharon legacy

must make you pine for the good ole days...indeed!

That bastard was a terrorists terrorist and karma finally caught up with him and served justice.

Hell fill another vacancy with his passing.

[oberliner]

37. I think you misunderstood

I'm saying that all players, Sharon included, could have made different choices that could have put the region on a different path.

[Throd]

7. The absence of war weakens Hamas.

[RobertEarl]

20. No

The absence of being treated with dignity as a living human being is what created the reaction of the people of Gaza.

It is weird how some here complain the Gazans react when the bully Israel pushes them around and off their native lands.

Without the military backing of the US and GB, Israel would have to seek peace and quit being so war like.

[Fred Sanders]

8. Likud could not accept the Palestinian Unity government. End of story.

[BillZBubb]

22. You mean the Palestinians could have given in to Israeli occupation and brutalization.

They didn't, so Israel makes them suffer more.

[Live and Learn]

29. Sometimes, both sides are wrong.

In which case, we should stand with neither and for peace!

[RedFury]

34. Why,exactly

....are "both sides wrong"? What did Palestinians do to have their land and homes taken away?

Lesser weapons? Trust you keep at least a huge tank in your backyard. Heck, might as well add an F-16 or ten. And some nukes to be totally sure it won't happen to you.

[Live and Learn]

35. Because killing is never right and it never leads to anything but more killing. nt

[dembotoz]

53. if i lived there i would prob be a member of hamas--so hate me

i would imagine i would be way angry about my friends and family being murdered.

i know it makes me sound anti semetic

but i would be angry and some damn piece of paper signed in 1948 would have no real meaning
i would be out for revenge.....

[kentuck]

58. I'm sorry that I broke your fist with my nose...

-type of thinking...