These are the things men say to women on the street

[Liberal_in_LA]

More at the link

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/08/things-men-say-to-women-on-street-harassment_n_5659877.html?cps=gravity

[SunSeeker]

1. I'll never forget the punk who yelled, "Gonna rape you!" as he drove past me.

I was trying to cross the street in front of my own house.





But there's no such thing as male privilege.

[n2doc]

2. An old cartoon (2010), but appropriate

Last edited Sat Aug 9, 2014, 12:10 PM - Edit history (1)

[Liberal_in_LA]

40. good one

[Warpy]

102. That's my favorite

and Mr. Clueless on the end is NOT going to be getting lucky tonight or most other nights when his lady comes home verbally battered and not liking any men very much.

I wish men would catch onto that part. Maybe they'd get a little more serious about telling the hooting jackasses to shut the fuck up.

[SnakeEyes]

3. Where does this happen?

I have never heard anything like this on the streets anywhere that I have been. Only seen it on tv/movies. I'm not doubting it exists but I'm surprised Ive never heard it

[CrispyQ]

5. The bus stop is where I got harassed the most.

Guys driving by, guys walking by, guys waiting at the stop with you. Sometimes when I'd see a guy alone at the stop, I'd walk to the next one if I had time. Amazingly, not so much on the bus. Weird, huh?

on edit: I still ride the bus, only at 57, I'm the one most likely to strike up a convo with anyone not reading or looking at a device. I love asking people where they're from, what they're doing in the area, if they're going to school, what they're studying. I've met some delightful people. It's fun.

[redqueen]

6. This comic describes the reason for that

[CrispyQ]

7. "...based on the problematic idea that public spaces are actually men's spaces."

That sums it up perfectly.

[hfojvt]

19. I don't think that's what's going on

Or if it is, you'd have to ask the question

What percentage of men think (or act in such a way that shows they believe) that public spaces are men's spaces?

I bet the answer would be quite low, lower than 10%. Maybe even lower than 1%.

Granted, if you live in a city with 50,000 adults or near-adults, then even 5% is a lot of people (about 1,250) and you could easily run into such a person once or twice a week.

I think it is more complicated than a simple "some men want to rule the world" hypothesis.

[kwassa]

33. What is the source of your statistics?

Do you have a source?

what? no?

[hfojvt]

41. and what is the source of anybody else's statistic?

Was I not responding to somebody who was claiming the number was, what 70% or 95% (without, of course, any attempt to quantify it at all, only to claim that it is somehow ubiquitous)

Especially in regard to an OP that said "This is what men say".

Not what SOME men, sometimes say.

But I know, it is a terrible thing to ask some people to narrow the focus of their attacks.

And I think it is quite absurd to postulate that very many men have the attitude that "public spaces are men's spaces".

I mean, I can only speak for one man, myself, but there's nothing I love better than going out and seeing attractive women out and about.

If one really wants to know why those guys do what they do, it might help to do a little bit of investigation about who they are and why they do anything.

[bettyellen]

47. "nothing I love better than going out and seeing attractive women out and about." Seeing women,

but again, not hearing them, it would seem.

[redqueen]

49. SPOT FUCKING ON

[Ms. Toad]

100. ding ding ding!!!

[Egnever]

109. Certainly not

If their mindset is such they think I believe public spaces are men's spaces.

Would seem to me any woman who believes garbage like that is a complete waste of time to try to listen to. The chip there is so large one might consider it a boulder.

I certainly have have no desire whatsoever to interact with a woman who sees me as a threat or as someone trying to otherwise dominate or exclude her.

This is no way for anyone to have a relationship and would not likely lead to one I would be interested in be it a friendship or a love affair.

Of course I am only myself and can't speak for other men.

[CrispyQ]

45. The world IS ruled by men.

Whether individual men think about ruling the world or not, you do rule the world & you rule the public space. I don't know what percent of men behave this way, but it's enough that women are often uncomfortable going out alone. You may never witness it, but you know men who behave this way when they are alone.

[hfojvt]

48. that is such a strange statement

"you (presumably meaning "we&quot rule the world"

First of all, what does it mean to "rule the world". These world rulers do not have the slightest bit of control over what I am going to say next or what I am gonna do in the next hour or two. At that point though I probably will goto work.

But even at work I am somewhat self-supervised.

But above me is my supervisor - a woman, and above her is the department head - another woman. Well, my supervisor is herself, semi-autonomous in running her section and the department head even more so. So there is a good portion of my world which is ruled by women.

Okay, furthermore, let's say there is a group of kings with lots and lots of power and they are all men, meeting in a secret hideaway like they do on the Simpsons and deciding things, pulling the strings, as it were. To say that "we" rule the world because a ditch digger like myself and the masters of the universe share the same gender seems kinda silly.

"women are uncomfortable going out alone" and yet everywhere I go I see lots and lots of women (and that's the way, uh huh, uh huh, I like it).

And my observation, as years of being a lone wolf is that most people move in packs, and further that people are more likely to behave badly in packs. As a college sophomore, for example, there was this girl who used to give me crap whenever she saw me in the dorm lunchroom. Once I happened to meet her all alone in some back way around some construction. I noticed she didn't have anything to say.

In my experience, I am usually getting set on by packs of bullies, not by just one.

[uppityperson]

73. You like to see lots of women out and about even if they are uncomfortable by men's overt lewdness?

wtf?

[Egnever]

111. Stuff those words in his mouth

Well done.!

[SnakeEyes]

51. I wish I ruled the world

and the actions of others are their own actions, not mine. And I don't know men that do. Must just be a good circle of friends.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

9. what a great graphic. explains it so well. should be easily understood by anyone on a fourth grade

reading level and I especially like how they have portrayed women as also not understanding ...

please note the 11th panel if scrolling upwards =

this one: You know He was Just trying to compliment you .... that has been said by other women To Other women.

Thank you, redqueen for posting it.

[redqueen]

10. My pleasure.

It's really good.

[MadrasT]

11. "He was just trying to compliment you"

That excuse makes me nuts. It's idiocy.

Does any self-respecting woman actually give a flying fuck what some random stranger thinks about her?

I can't fathom why anyone would.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

13. Not to get into the psychology of it all or, cyber diagnose but, I could venture to guess at

self-esteem issues (no self-respect) or, just so immersed in the patriarchy they themselves do not even realize what they are doing/saying, no self awareness or, autonomy .... blah blah blah, yanno

Or else, the freedom to be a loser just like the men who do it.

A Mating call as it were.

Seems like I discussed this in HoF with someone the other day.

I mean in America everyone has the right to be a Loser if they so choose.

I do not want to take anyone's rights or freedoms. I really don't.

[CrispyQ]

17. I think this covers a lot of women:

...just so immersed in the patriarchy they themselves do not even realize what they are doing/saying

[hfojvt]

22. I don't know why anyone wouldn't.

Otherwise, why do we comb our hair and try to look presentable?

And if a random stranger tells me "you look good" then presumably that means that other people will think so too.

Heck, even a crude comment didn't bother me, some girl drives by and yells at me "bend over baby" while I am doing some work and I wanted to yell back "hey, if you like what you see, I AM single."

It would, of course, be less of a funny incident if she was really unattractive and much bigger than me.

[nomorenomore08]

29. If it were only "you look good" then there wouldn't be such a problem.

Or rather, it would be irritating at worst, rather than potentially terrifying.

"It would, of course, be less of a funny incident if she was really unattractive and much bigger than me."

I think you've stumbled upon something there...

[Tsiyu]

36. What if a big, burly guy said it?

or ten guys throughout the day made comments like that?

[hfojvt]

44. I have had guys compliment my legs

presumably they thought those legs were attached to a woman's body, although one guy knew better since he worked with me.

I did, I believe, actually have a guy try to pick me up in Lincoln, Nebraska although I did not realize it at the time. I just thought it was strange to start talking to somebody that you saw on the street like that. I sorta went all porcupine on him - quills out, keep away, even though nothing overt was said. He didn't even compliment my bodacious bottom. I don't think I would have freaked out if he had.

I cannot imagine a universe where I was getting even one compliment a day, let alone ten.

I said, I can see how burliness might be seen as a threat. As a little guy I am pretty much always on high alert for burly guys who might wanna kick sand in my face too. Like Calvin, my strategy is to run like a squirrel. But that seems like it was more of an issue when I was under 25 or so.

[1StrongBlackMan]

96. And I have asked males ...

what they hoped to accomplish by cat-calling?

I've never gotten a genuine response.

[FSogol]

25. I agree. Awesome comic. Thanks. n/t

[SnakeEyes]

18. This did nothing to answer my question n/t

[redqueen]

20. Wow. OK. nt

[Tsiyu]

39. Seriously?

It very CLEARLY addressed your question as to why you "don't see it."

There are plenty of things you "won't see" because the people who do those things are not going to let you see them do these things.

That is just not too hard to understand. Or to figure out on your own should you choose to do so.

Unless you don't want to see it, or figure it out.

[SnakeEyes]

50. Doesn't make sense

It's a prevalent act in public but I don't see it because the people, that I don't know, that are making these comments aren't letting me see it. But others do

[Tsiyu]

55. There appear to be a lot of things you will never see. n/t

[sufrommich]

58. I doubt that there is a woman alive who hasn't

experienced this form of public humiliation.Ask any freaking woman you know.

[hfojvt]

74. the people who are the victims (probably most women)

know that it is happening. Since you are not one of the victims, you don't see it. Most of the perpetrators, unless they are acting with a bunch of lowlife friends, are gonna act when there are no other witnesses.

That is, if you are walking with a lady friend, somebody is not gonna walk by and say "nice tits" to her, BECAUSE of your presence. She's far more likely to hear it when she is alone.

And in that case, what is even worse than the crude, unsolicited comment, is the potential threat of sexual assault.

It's a selection bias, and I don't doubt that most women have experienced it. We live, after all, in a nasty world. Although most of the women I know do not spend a lot of time complaining to me about it. Which I would expect them to do if they were really upset.

But you are correct in that the cartoon never did get around to answering the question posed - WHERE do you experience it?

[LanternWaste]

76. We often see only that which validates our biases, and are blind to those things which do not.

We often see only that which validates our biases, and are blind to those things which do not.

[SnakeEyes]

108. That's a nice thought

but we are talking about overt gestures and obvious audible comments.

[1StrongBlackMan]

97. And more ...

when they do some of the less overt things, you misinterpret it as nothing more than an innocent compliment.

[cyberswede]

53. Maybe because people do it to women when you're not around?

I've never seen anyone buy heroin, or make meth, but I know it happens.

[TorchTheWitch]

8. everywhere and anywhere

Even in those places you'd never suspect it. Like a job interview. And AFTER the asswipe turned me down for the job.

[MadrasT]

12. Every time it every happened to me,

I was walking down the street, either alone, or with one other female.

It has happened to me on rural country roads.
It has happened to me in big cities.
It has happened to me in small towns.

But every time, I was alone, or with one other female.

If a woman is with a man, it never, ever happens.

Oh wait, there was one time I was at a flea market with my husband, a couple of young men leered at me (but didn't say anything), and my husband had one pinned up against a wall by his throat in about half a second. I am guessing meeting that kind of reaction teaches boys/men to tone it down if the woman appears to be "taken". Although I think most boys/men instinctively steer clear of women who are "taken".

The ownership mentality is fucking sick.

I was angry at my husband for reacting that way. It made me feel as if I was some kind of prize being fought over, like dogs fighting over a scrap of meat. And not a grown person with my own free will.

[hifiguy]

15. I had the same thought.

I live in downtown Minneapolis and use only public transportation. I hear spectacular vulgarity
(let me point out I can and do swear like a sailor but NEVER in public places) regularly expressed at 110 dB, people who have no indoor voice whtsoever, and obnoxiousness by the cubic ton, but I have never heard this.

Like you, I do not doubt for even a nanosecond that it regularly happens, though.

[jamzrockz]

23. New York city

Just kidding, but I always wonder what kind of person would say that. Its quite unbelievable.

[mythology]

35. I know in my case I haven't heard it for two reasons

If I'm walking by myself, I've got my headphones on. Or if I'm walking with a woman, I'm a big enough guy that most people aren't going to do anything stupid whether they think I'm her significant other or not.

On the other hand, pretty much all of my female friends have had this happen to them to one degree or another. And as another poster said, either when the women were alone or if it was something like grabbing her ass, doing it and mixing in with a crowd.

I think it happens when there's not a threat of getting caught, or having to pay for it.

But what I don't understand, is if the point is to get her to talk/date/sleep with you, how does this further that goal? Maybe the goal is to creep women out, but to what end? Are there that many guys who get off emotionally on being creepy? Of course, maybe I'm just over thinking it and they just suck as human beings.

[TDale313]

37. The point is not to actually pick the woman up.

It's to put women in their place- let them know they're only there for the viewer's entertainment. It's fucked up, but that's really what it comes down to.

[yewberry]

42. I'm sorry to report... most everywhere.

Take a walk with me. Please.

I'm a woman who uses public transportation and has to walk on public streets daily. Seattle is a blue city... but I get propositioned routinely. Told to "Smile" because I'm "beautiful." Cussed out when I don't respond to sexual advances on the street. Followed by men in cars offering me money for sex.

It totally sucks. I don't deserve this crap.

[LWolf]

46. It doesn't happen to me any more.

I'm too old, and wear the evidence of a hard life. I also went gray early, and never covered it up. Gray hair is a good silencer.

When I was younger, though, it happened all over. Walking or riding my bike to school and back...fucking jr high school as well as high school. Public bus stops. Parking lots. Grocery store aisles. Walking down any street past any place where there were men. Not all men, thankfully, but enough of them.

Once it happened IN a movie theater. My friend and I sat down to watch an afternoon matinee; we, and a few guys in the back row, were the only ones there that afternoon. The called down to us repeatedly, and when we didn't respond, one of them came down from the back row, sat behind me, leaned over, and got real close to my ear. When he reached for my hair, to move it out of his way, I acted. I stood, moved out into the aisle (I was in an end seat,) and looked at him. He grinned, stood, and said something like "Now you're talkin', baby," reaching his hand out for me. I nailed him in the gonads as hard as I could with my boots, and my friend and I moved several rows down and finished watching our movie. I was 14.

[MrMickeysMom]

59. I was 14 years old...

I was shocked, but very quiet afterwards, probably because I thought it should meant something when a few adult men were audibly nearby. One said, "Man… In about 4 more years, you're gonna be beautiful".

Benign? I dunno… I've remembered it for long time as a cue that I better be beautiful… or what, I didn't figure out for a while.

[Le Taz Hot]

60. To my great dismay

I started developing early so by the time I was 13 I was already a C cup. I mention 13 because that was the age I was when some sick-ass pervert told me how much he wanted to titty fuck me. Walking along, minding my own business and some asshole felt he had the right to make that comment. I had NO idea what he was talking about. I just knew it creeped me the fuck out. I can assure you, shit like this happens all the time.

[sufrommich]

61. I would venture to guess that most young

teenage girls have similar stories,I know I had experience with these creeps by the time I was a young teen,along with my friends.It's a sick sort of right of passage I guess.

[OLDMADAM]

72. I don't want a fight, but I agree with you..

I haven't ever been talked to in this way.. I have been subjected to inappropriate talk directed at me, and who the hell hasn't, but nothing as obnoxious as this..

I'm a bit uncomfortable with the amount of man hating I read on these threads.. I have many fine men in my life, starting with my father, uncles, brothers and my own dear sons.. I can't decide how bad some of the posters have treated to bring them to their positions, but you speak for yourselves, not me or most of my women family members, or personal friends..

[cyberswede]

79. Man hating? Oh FFS.

Posters here don't hate men. They hate street harassment.

[redqueen]

82. LOL, of course you do.

Enjoying your stay, are you?

[WhollyHeretic]

83. man hating? Seriously?

I'm a man and don't feel the least bit of hatred in this thread or anywhere on DU.

[LanternWaste]

85. The depths you've plumbed for this are absurd.

Pointing out incivility towards women is now man-hating? The depths you've plumbed for this are absurd.

[raccoon]

91. Your post has the ring of falsity to it. nt

[Gormy Cuss]

92. Inappropriate talk directed at you by men?

Would criticizing those men make you a man hater?

[LanternWaste]

75. Arlington, Texas. The Parks Mall. This past weekend.

Arlington, Texas. The Parks Mall. This past weekend. Directed at the three females I was shopping with. Multiple times.

[Blue_Tires]

77. Where do you live?

I'll point out the nearest geographical spot where you're damn near guaranteed to hear it...

[redqueen]

84. Since others are sharing their stories I'll share one.

Walking down the street with a group of girls, on our way to see a movie. I was 15. Guys driving by slowed down and shouted at us, "How much?"

[Gormy Cuss]

87. It can happen anywhere.

Following places where it's happened to me or I've witnessed it:
--in big cities
--in small cities
--on rural roads
--in sports venues
--at concerts
--in parks
--at the beach

Pretty much any place where some guy can make a hit and run statement, it's happened.

[redqueen]

90. At school. Starting earlier than most bother thinking about. nt

[lululu]

89. everywhere

If you are female and asking that, this is some alternate universe.

[LadyHawkAZ]

93. Usually in my ear where others can't hear it

The more vulgar the suggestion, the closer they usually stand or sit, unless they are in a group.

[1StrongBlackMan]

94. Let me guess ...

you're a male ... with no male friends.

[cyberswede]

95. It happened to me just this summer...

I was walking to my car, alone, at 5:15 in the afternoon. Two college-aged guys made some crude remark or another...I don't even recall the details, but it was sexual in nature. Which is really weird, because I'm probably old enough to have been their mother. WTF? Creepy.

It happened to me all the time when I was young - probably starting when I was about 12 or 13 - usually when I was alone or with one other girl. It continued, regularly, all through jr high, high school & college. And I'm talking about strangers on the street saying inappropriate things...not even the countless times it happened in bars, or by acquaintances being "funny."

Of course not all men do this, but enough do.

[bullwinkle428]

107. Never seen it in real life? How old are you?

[CrispyQ]

4. Wow, they've gotten a lot more crude since I was a young woman.

Everything has.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

14. you really said a mouthful here ...

it is the larger issue and the wider context of what we have been trying to say all along.

As a society, we have deteriorated to such a low level that the degradation has to be worse and worse as people become more and more desensitized to it all ... and so also does the porn.

People argue that we as individuals are not affected but, clearly we are.

[hifiguy]

16. Civility is dying a swift death.

It makes me very sad, but there is nothing that can be done to change the crude, rude Teeming Millions.

[nomorenomore08]

30. I think your sigline is quite apt here...

[Iggo]

21. Yeah, I suck.

[cyberswede]

54. Why?

[davidn3600]

24. A form of bullying

And the world is full of bullies. That's just the reality.

Bullies won't stop until you stand up to them.

[Prophet 451]

26. My SO gets this shit all teh time

My SO is overweight, rather buxom and (picking words carefully) not stereotypically attractive. And she frequently gets pointing fingers, insults and such shouted at her. They used to stop when I was with her but now I'm disabled and on crutches, they feel free to be assholes even when I'm with her.

[nomorenomore08]

31. That is just pathetic. I really hate the human race sometimes.

[JI7]

43. says a lot about the type of people who do that

fuck them

[SummerSnow]

27. I remember my husband and I...

went to a neighborhood store. I was shopping for a sewing kit. Before entering the store my husband saw a guy he knew and they started conversing. My husband told me to go inside and shop but he'll be outside in front of the store talking with his friend. So I went into the store and while browsing this man came out of nowhere and was saying sexual things to me and he cornered me. I had recognized him by other women in the area pointing him out to me saying he was the neighborhood pervert and to keep an eye on him. I left the store told my husband and he quickly came in cornered the guy and threatened him with profanities.The guy got scared and ran out the store. Every time I saw that guy I noticed when he saw me he would cross the street. Avoiding me.Punk ass mf.

[hopemountain]

28. "how would you like a piece of that ass?"

i was 15.

[nomorenomore08]

32. Would any sane person consider any of those a "compliment"?

I notice none of the "There's nothing wrong with being told you look nice!" folks have weighed in here...

[Xolodno]

34. Reality...

[nomorenomore08]

38. I saw that one too (I'm a sporadic Jezebel reader/commenter). Awesome stuff.

[HockeyMom]

52. REAL Men don't need to prove their Manhood that way

Learned that one 40 years ago. DU Men will probably know what I mean by that.

Think: You are talking about another man's wife, SO, daughter, sister, aunt, niece, and maybe even mother. How would you feel if she was YOUR relative?

[KitSileya]

57. She is a person.

It os important to emphasize that all women deserve respect because they are humans, not because of their relationship to men, or even to (generic) you. Men who street harass do not consider women as deserving of respect because they are women. We shouldn't only be respectef because some man has a prior 'claim' on us.

Please don't think I think you were wrong in your post, HockeyMom. I just wanted to emphasize this point, because too often men are asked to treat women well because they are their mothers, sisters, daughters, but I and all women deserve respect because of our humanity, period.

[De Leonist]

56. I get harassed on the streets

Because I have difficulty walking a in straight line even when I'm sober. So yeah I get that it sucks and generally speaking try not to harass women like that. Though I have to admit I didn't know that it affected women that much.

On the flip side that part of me that motivates me to do very weird but harmless things for my own amusement is telling me to put a bottle of coke in a brown paper bag and walk around yelling things like " you look like an intelligent person" or " I really like your shoes"
at every woman I come across just to see their responses.

Yeah, I don't always understand the method to my own madness either.

[cyberswede]

63. "generally speaking" ?

Oh dear.

[De Leonist]

65. I have done it unintentionally....

Because of my Autism I sometimes commit Faux Pas such as cat-calling unintentionally. It happens because sometimes I'm not always aware of how I word things can be easily misinterpreted.

[sufrommich]

66. How does one "cat call unintentionally"? nt

[De Leonist]

68. Well for me....

It usually happens when I see a female acquaintance I haven't seen in a long time and I end up yelling at her to get her attention instead of approaching her to say hi which seems to result in them being less unnerved.

[sufrommich]

69. That's not really a cat call though.

Cat calls are unwanted sexual comments to strangers.

[De Leonist]

70. I realize that

But a few times because of how I worded it ended up being misinterpreted as that. It's not easy to explain. But for some reason how I have something worded in my mind does not always come out worded that way.

[cyberswede]

67. Thank you for the explanation.

I have a nephew with Asperger's. Social etiquette is difficult (if not impossible) for him, but he's a sweet fella.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. I have been with guys who said some pretty offensive things about women

But never to one...


That's messed up...You have to be a real cretin to do so...

[Electric Monk]

64. There is an important word ommitted from your headline: some

These are the things some men say to women on the street



In my experience it is nowhere even close to most men. It is a small minority of guys who behave this way.

[99Forever]

71. I suspect that omission was no accident.

I would never say such things, nor would it be accepted by those I associate with.

[cyberswede]

81. You'd have to ask the author of the article, I guess, since that's what the OP used as the title.

I'm glad you don't do it, and I'm glad it wouldn't be accepted by people you associate with.

However, since 70-99% of women experience street harassment in their lifetime, someone must be doing it - even if it's a "small minority."

[99Forever]

98. With all due respect,

I'm speaking with you, as you chose to post it, not the author of the article.

As I said above, it's not tolerated by the people I associate with, nor would I ever act in such a manner, so I'm somewhat puzzled as to just what more it is that you expect me to do?

[cyberswede]

99. Huh?

I chose to post the thread headline? *scratch head*

As I said, I'm glad you don't harass strange women or girls on the street.

I don't expect you to "do" anything - but it's a little curious that the one thing you did do was imply that the OP had nefarious intentions.

You wrote:

I suspect that omission was no accident.

Presumably, you were speculating that the writer of the OP intended to imply that all men behave this way (which isn't the case); I merely pointed out that the OP didn't write the title.

[cyberswede]

80. Duh. I can't believe anyone thinks this means ALL men (or even most).

I'm glad it's a minority, but it's still too many. And I wager there are some people who have no idea how prevalent it is, until they see a site like the one in the OP. Education is good.

(and unless you're a woman walking alone, your "experience" might not be particularly accurate).

[Skittles]

101. oh don't you know? It's all about THEM

they get confused and upset very easily

[LanternWaste]

86. There is an important phrase omitted from your title: "my experience"

There is an important phrase omitted from your title: "my experience"

[redqueen]

88. Not all men!

Not All Men: A Brief History of Every Dude’s Favorite Argument
Jess Zimmerman
The "not all men" defense against feminist arguments is infuriating and unhelpful, but it also represents a weird kind of progress

...

Before its meteoric rise as an object of mockery in the early parts of 2014, “not all men” had a past life as an object of frustration. For feminist bloggers it was a classic derail, a bad-faith argument used to shift the focus of a discussion instead of engaging with it.

...

It’s true that previous derailment favorites like “patriarchy hurts men too” were paraphrases in a way that “not all men” is not. The demand is the same — “please move me to the center of your discussion” — but “not all men” is, in many cases, straight from the horse’s mouth; even an amateur Reddit spelunker can turn up plenty of sulky or defensive uses of the phrase.

“Not all men” also differs from “what about the men?” and other classic derails because it acknowledges that rape, sexism, and misogyny are real issues — just not, you know, real issues that the speaker is involved with in any way. The “not all men” man, at least in some cases, agrees with you and is perfectly willing to talk about how terrible those other guys are, just as soon as we get done establishing that he himself would never be such a cad. It’s infuriating and unhelpful, but in a way it represents a weird kind of progress.

...

The Not-All-Man hero and his minions are paralyzingly obsessed with protecting their own self-concept, to a degree that prevents them from engaging in sincere discussion. But this contrast — between “not all men” and earlier derailing tactics — suggests that maybe they also represent a small and subtle shift towards good-faith argumentation.

Not all men will make that shift, ultimately. But some is better than none.

http://time.com/79357/not-all-men-a-brief-history-of-every-dudes-favorite-argument/

[Liberal_in_LA]

104. i used the article's title

[KamaAina]

78. It's true. We are all pigs.

Well, most of us, anyway.

[pipi_k]

103. And what about the things women

say on the street?

I can honestly say I've been disrespected by nearly as many WOMEN as I have men.


Women who have called me a "slut", "pig", "whore", etc., all because their men have dared to look at me. Or because they thought I wanted to "steal" their boyfriends/husbands away from them.

And people go on about how men won't say anything derogatory to a woman when she's with another man. What about women who flirt with a man even though he's clearly WITH a girlfriend or wife??? Is that not disrespectful?

And tell me...is it sexual harassment for a woman to proposition another woman? It's happened to me a handful of times. "Oh, if I were gay, I could really go for you". That was said to me one time in a bar while I was there with my second husband and brother in law.

Then there was a time, many years ago when I was slimmer than today. I had gotten my hair cut short (had to, because it got ruined when I dyed it dark then bleached it back light again). Walking my dog down a busy street, a bunch of girls driving by from my back yelling "Hey baby!!!" at me, then realizing their mistake as they got past and noticed I actually had breasts, small as they were at the time.


So, while I've also had some disrespectful things said to me by men, why are we pretending that women are totally innocent of the same type of behavior?

[Liberal_in_LA]

105. good points

[cyberswede]

106. Who is pretending that women are innocent of that type of behavior?

This thread is about a specific article. Nowhere in the article, or the thread, does anyone say that women don't say offensive things.

I don't know that anyone has posted signs about it, as in the article, but if they have, feel free to post it.

[pnwmom]

110. When you were 12, did adult women cat-call you on the street?

When you were 13, on your way to babysit, did adult women surround you in a pack, walking along with you and saying things like, "She looks like she's walking on marshmallows"?

Nothing you say indicates that harassing women ever scared you. But this is common for men to do, even with young girls.