This quote, true or false: "For the most part the slaves were not mistreated"

[CreekDog]

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[underpants]

1. Could they leave if they wanted to?

[Blue_Adept]

2. Their very being slaves is mistreatment of their humanity.

That's it.

[CreekDog]

4. Yes and physical and other forms of abuse accompanied that

[XemaSab]

41. Exactly

Making it about how many whippings they got per month or how much pecan pie was served at Thanksgiving is missing the essential point.

[Cha]

79. Thank you, Blue Adept.

[magical thyme]

94. exactly.

[WinkyDink]

140. EXACTLY. The very word "SLAVES" answers definitivley this poll, just as "torture" suffices per se.

[Orrex]

3. They were given all the whippings and brutally hard physical labor that they could want.

Sounds like a sweet deal!

[Marr]

5. I've heard right wingers say that, but they never take me up on my offer to

let them do one single day of back breaking work in my yard without pay. They seem to consider the notion quite unappealing.

[LisaLynne]

86. Just like Hannity's whole "oh waterboarding isn't torture" thing.

They like to say it, but they won't put their money where their mouth is.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. The condition of slavery is itself mistreatment.

[steve2470]

7. Slavery = mistreatment, end of story, no matter how "benevolent" nt

[Starry Messenger]

8. As many people pointed out yesterday-

the actual state of slavery itself is a gross human rights violation in its own right, and is mistreatment.

Maybe yesterday's OP was one of these people with the stupid questions:

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

38. That's very well done. In episode 2, the abolitionist says:

Although the institution of slavery is morally reprehensible, there were and are some good slave masters and owners.

[Starry Messenger]

45. That's a brilliant episode too.

"Old Bill gives his slaves bacon. Who doesn't love bacon?"

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

48. I'll bet one has to exercize massive amount of self control to deal with the

public when portraying any character in Williamsburg, but I suspect those acting the parts of slaves have a particularly challenging task.

[Marrah_G]

125. This is great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

9. owning vs. renting a human.

[Gormy Cuss]

10. For the most part

I don't want to read that revisionist opinion here nor do I want to see it defended. I'm also not interested in pretending that it's a teachable moment when someone spews that crap here.

[Boom Sound 416]

14. Yup

[CreekDog]

17. i agree

ugh.

as bad as holocaust denial.

[Starry Messenger]

19. Yup.

[yardwork]

27. Well said.

[bettyellen]

31. agreed- I had thought changes in hosting would result in RW, sexist,racist nut job OPs being locked?

but it seems they are still allowed to shit all over GD if they are polite about their RW bigotry and hatred. hey, as long as everyone's polite and not discussing guns, right?

[zappaman]

54. The bigger question is

how did it survive a jury?

[bettyellen]

56. I think one impacts the other, in that people see that RW crap is okay with hosts, so it must be ok

with Skinner, and who are they to say different?
Slowly it has become more and more "okay" to discuss any old crap in GD, to post drunk and unintelligible crap, completely random personal things, as well as offensive RW crap, and I think a lot of jurors how a lower standard because the see lowers standards. Having standards is now a game of hot potato around here.

[Starry Messenger]

59. That's what I think too.

Jurors lower their standards because they see standards lowering.

And then you get sanctimonious finger-wagging from others if you take the only remedy left--registering your verbal disapproval and anger at what is being posted.

But I'll be dead in the ground before I let something so awful like that pass without comment.

[bettyellen]

66. you see it in jury results, and in the hosts group too, a race to the bottom is what it is

and the effect of this "every OP is special" nonsense is to triple the volume of racist ans sexist trolling going on and a ridiculous amount of vanity posts. And yeah, I am seeing finger wagging from people who give blatant racism a pass. Awesome.

[SidDithers]

96. Because some DUers think that anything should be allowed at DU...

and that if you see something that you don't like, you can just trash the thread. They feel that the use of alerts to hide or lock content that has no place at a progressive messageboard is censorship and should be avoided at all costs.

Sid

[hlthe2b]

62. Actually, I'd hoped the new GD SOP clarification would allow some latitude for hosts to lock

threads like this, but, Skinner has apparently decided anything that is not overtly complaining about DU and DU members--and thus all community standards violations--are NOT in the perview of hosts, but only juries. He clearly does not want hosts to come anywhere near to the old moderation system. Personally, I think this will move DU further and further into a "standard" most of us will not like, but...

[bettyellen]

64. As did I, and the SOPs would allow for many more locked threads if it was followed, as it was in LBN

V&M and even the Lounge. All other fora took the SOP seriously- except GD. Some hosts their would rather offend us all with nonsensical racist and sexist trash than actually lock anything. And they are the most vocal ones.

[SidDithers]

99. +1...

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Sid

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. Which is more likely to be cared for; a car you rent or a car you own?

I'm not suggesting that slavery is tolerable in any way. Owning another person is inherently wrong, period.

However, unlike "labor" slaves were capital assets.

Absent strong worker protections, today we're all rented cars. I'm not sure that I'd use the poor physical treatment of slaves relative to the poor physical treatment of say, coal miners, to be the primary problem with slavery.

The primary problem, and only relevant one, is slavery's inherent dehumanization. A reason for abolishing it important enough to stand on its own.

[Gormy Cuss]

75. Why are you changing the subject?

The post is about slaves, not at will workers.

[etherealtruth]

131. My thoughts exactly!!!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you

[hlthe2b]

11. By its essential nature, enslavement = mistreatment. n/t

[CreekDog]

16. Yes.

very simply stated.

[tkmorris]

12. The very circumstance of BEING A SLAVE is mistreatment of the highest order

And yes, mistreatment over and above that act was rampant.

[Xyzse]

13. Might I ask what brought this about? Just out of curiosity.

I have heard some people describe the treatment of those who were "indentured" workers in the US, and how they cost less than slaves.

Where, since they were considered "cheaper", they would get the more dangerous jobs that they would not give to slaves, since they have to pay for slaves and upkeep. Work conditions for them were horrible, and mistreatment was rampant, and in some cases they were treated worse.

I heard some guys justify themselves that way, on how their ancestors went through a horrible ordeal to get to where they are now.

This still does NOT justify how slaves were treated, nor does it allow them to make light of the experience slaves have gone through, and the continual racism and setbacks their descendants go through.

Yes, slaves were mistreated. No matter how well they would be taken cared for physically, it is still not proper treatment.

Like others say here, slavery is by definition mistreatment.

Nevermind. I just found the reason.

[yardwork]

29. I studied transatlantic slavery in college.

The idea that slaves were "protected" because they were valuable is a myth. I read original sources documenting the number of slaves who died each day clearing lumber in swamps, digging tunnels through bedrock, etc. They were expendable. A cost of doing business.

The phrase "sold down the river" refers to slaves being sold into brutal conditions in the Mississippi delta, where the remainder of their lives would be short.

Don't believe the myths. When people own people, there are no protections.

[Xyzse]

36. I wasn't saying I believed them. Just mentioning what I heard...

While reiterating that even if they believe such a thing, it doesn't take away from the fact that slaves were mistreated.

[treestar]

15. It doesn't matter

Sure some may have been treated OK sometimes, but that was at the whim of the slaveowner. Even if they were treated "well," it is human rights violation. One person cannot own another without having the power to violate their human rights, and having that power allows the worst to happen at a whim. Even with a "good" owner, you could be sold away from family, he could die and a bad owner follow.

Racists like to paint a happy picture of the antebellum South, with happy and well treated slaves, as if that 1)were at all true or 2) mattered at all even if it generally was.

[Octafish]

18. What one slave observed in a letter to his ex-master...

Dayton, Ohio,

August 7, 1865

To My Old Master, Colonel P.H. Anderson, Big Spring, Tennessee

Sir: I got your letter, and was glad to find that you had not forgotten Jourdon, and that you wanted me to come back and live with you again, promising to do better for me than anybody else can. I have often felt uneasy about you. I thought the Yankees would have hung you long before this, for harboring Rebs they found at your house. I suppose they never heard about your going to Colonel Martin's to kill the Union soldier that was left by his company in their stable. Although you shot at me twice before I left you, I did not want to hear of your being hurt, and am glad you are still living. It would do me good to go back to the dear old home again, and see Miss Mary and Miss Martha and Allen, Esther, Green, and Lee. Give my love to them all, and tell them I hope we will meet in the better world, if not in this. I would have gone back to see you all when I was working in the Nashville Hospital, but one of the neighbors told me that Henry intended to shoot me if he ever got a chance.

I want to know particularly what the good chance is you propose to give me. I am doing tolerably well here. I get twenty-five dollars a month, with victuals and clothing; have a comfortable home for Mandy,—the folks call her Mrs. Anderson,—and the children—Milly, Jane, and Grundy—go to school and are learning well. The teacher says Grundy has a head for a preacher. They go to Sunday school, and Mandy and me attend church regularly. We are kindly treated. Sometimes we overhear others saying, "Them colored people were slaves" down in Tennessee. The children feel hurt when they hear such remarks; but I tell them it was no disgrace in Tennessee to belong to Colonel Anderson. Many darkeys would have been proud, as I used to be, to call you master. Now if you will write and say what wages you will give me, I will be better able to decide whether it would be to my advantage to move back again.

As to my freedom, which you say I can have, there is nothing to be gained on that score, as I got my free papers in 1864 from the Provost-Marshal-General of the Department of Nashville. Mandy says she would be afraid to go back without some proof that you were disposed to treat us justly and kindly; and we have concluded to test your sincerity by asking you to send us our wages for the time we served you. This will make us forget and forgive old scores, and rely on your justice and friendship in the future. I served you faithfully for thirty-two years, and Mandy twenty years. At twenty-five dollars a month for me, and two dollars a week for Mandy, our earnings would amount to eleven thousand six hundred and eighty dollars. Add to this the interest for the time our wages have been kept back, and deduct what you paid for our clothing, and three doctor's visits to me, and pulling a tooth for Mandy, and the balance will show what we are in justice entitled to. Please send the money by Adams's Express, in care of V. Winters, Esq., Dayton, Ohio. If you fail to pay us for faithful labors in the past, we can have little faith in your promises in the future. We trust the good Maker has opened your eyes to the wrongs which you and your fathers have done to me and my fathers, in making us toil for you for generations without recompense. Here I draw my wages every Saturday night; but in Tennessee there was never any pay-day for the negroes any more than for the horses and cows. Surely there will be a day of reckoning for those who defraud the laborer of his hire.

In answering this letter, please state if there would be any safety for my Milly and Jane, who are now grown up, and both good-looking girls. You know how it was with poor Matilda and Catherine. I would rather stay here and starve—and die, if it come to that—than have my girls brought to shame by the violence and wickedness of their young masters. You will also please state if there has been any schools opened for the colored children in your neighborhood. The great desire of my life now is to give my children an education, and have them form virtuous habits.
Say howdy to George Carter, and thank him for taking the pistol from you when you were shooting at me.

From your old servant,

Jourdon Anderson.

[CreekDog]

20. +1

thanks for posting that.

[Octafish]

22. Come visit Detroit in February (and March) and see it performed on stage...

...at the Charles H. Wright Museum of African American History by the Theatre Company of University of Detroit-Mercy.

http://liberalarts.udmercy.edu/programs/depts/performing_arts/theatre/season/play1/

Makes you cry and then want to get up and fight for justice.

[Whiskeytide]

21. That is genuinely a wonderful letter...

... I would have loved to have seen the Colonel's face when he read it. I wonder if there was a response?

[Starry Messenger]

23. I looked this up, I was interested too.

Not a written response, but get a load of this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2174410/Pictured-The-freed-slave-moving-letter-old-master-asked-work-farm.html

"In a 2006 speech at a conference on slavery reparations, historian Raymond Winbush retold the story of Anderson’s letter. He also revealed that he had tracked down some of Patrick Henry Anderson’s descendants, still living in Big Spring.

'What’s amazing is that the current living relatives of Colonel Anderson are still angry at Jordan for not coming back,' knowing that the plantation was in serious disrepair after the war, said Winbush, director of the Institute for Urban Research at Maryland’s Morgan State University."

Wow! That's some cognitive dissonance!

[Octafish]

24. It is wonderful...a window into the place where our world came from.

Regarding the plantation feller, he passed away two years after receiving the letter from his former property:

And what happened to Colonel Patrick Henry Anderson? He died just 2 years after the letter was written, in September 1867, at the age of 43.

SOURCE: http://www.daytonhistorybooks.com/jourdon_anderson.html

[Nay]

25. What a GREAT LETTER. This should be in every kid's history book. nt

[Scootaloo]

28. It likely would be... except for the fact it talks about fair wages for labor

THAT'S SOCIALISM!!!!!

[sarisataka]

26. Slave

according to Merriam-Webster:

someone who is legally owned by another person and is forced to work for that person without pay

mistreat

to treat (someone or something) badly

perhaps I am overly literal but owning a person and forcing them to work without pay seems to be treating them badly. Therefore slavery is mistreatment.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

34. +1

Slavery is by definition mistreating. It is
true that some owners treated their slaves more kindly than others. That didn't make it right.

[CreekDog]

39. yes, that is inhumane mistreatment

absolutely.

i thought most if not all DUers would agree that there is no way one could call anything associated with being a slave proper treatment.

[bklyncowgirl]

30. Many farmers treated their work horses well too--bottom line a man or a woman is not a horse.

Even if, for argument's sake a master treated his slaves well, clothed and housed them properly, allowed them to form families and earn money on the side and as I've had people whose ancestors owned slaves told me "treated them like family" that does not erase the fact that we are talking about human beings here not livestock.

A horse knows only what its instincts and it experiences in life teach it. A well cared for horse can be 'happy' in his work but he cannot talk to other horses and learn that he is a slave or should be enjoying a better life. A human can.

[Rowdyboy]

32. Slavery is destructive both to the slave and the master....

Saw a play last spring "The Whipping Man" set in in a Jewish planter's ruined estate in the closing days of the Civil War and that was one point it made clearly. The planters wounded son and 2 former slaves are the only cast but they deliver beautifully...

[ZombieHorde]

33. Of course they were mistreated.

Enslaving someone is mistreatment, and that is a bit of an understatement.

[CreekDog]

40. it is

and i was asking DUers to respond to the particular quote, which i found appalling. so if the answer seems obvious, i expected this result. i see nothing wrong with letting people see the unequivocal opposition to the idea that slavery could be associated with anything but mistreatment.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

35. It's a trick question

Slavery is an inherent state of mistreatment.

If what you are asking is "were there varying degrees of physical and mental abuse of slaves by slaveholders" the answer is obviously "yes". Some slaveholders were more humane than others.

[CreekDog]

37. No, it's not a trick question.

the correct answer is that the statement is false, because it is.

slaves were mistreated by any definition, either in the narrow sense in terms of day to day abuse that went on and in the larger sense of being enslaved, period.

i even debated removing the "true" choice from the poll altogether, but luckily nobody has voted for that, which would be repugnant.

and i AM NOT asking were there varying degrees of mistreatment. slavery is mistreatment and in addition to that were many other forms of mistreatment that were pervasive in slavery.

finally, the other reason it's not a trick question: i voted in the poll. next time look for the author's vote if you think they are trying to trick people. i voted first and i voted as everyone else has.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

42. So why ask it as a poll question?

I supppose we could poll DU on whether water is wet or on the identity of the person in Grant's tomb.

By the way, we don't disagree. I just chose not to play. We agree that slavery is an inherent state of mistreatment. Where we disagree on the definition of trick question. In this case, the "trick" is that anyone dumb enough to answer "true" is most likely going to get swarmed or get bounced as a troll.

[CreekDog]

43. yes, and what would be wrong with someone answering yes getting swarmed and bounced?

not a damned thing.

and since i saw the quote here, i see nothing wrong with having DUers' opinion of that quote made loud and forcefully clear.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

50. It's more interesting to discuss quotes in which there are two valid viewpoints

I recently posted a DUer's quote about blatant anti-semitism at DU. It led to what I thought was a lively discussion with two sides and an interesting poll. This is like watching fish get shot in a barrel.

[CreekDog]

44. are you saying it's a trick question because a bigot might answer honestly and reveal their feelings

[Algernon Moncrieff]

52. Nobody with more than half a brain would answer that question "yes" in this venue.

It's like posting a poll on whether you'd vote for McConnell or Grimes.

(my response to your eyeroll)

[NYC_SKP]

93. Just as I thought.

Not that I needed a confirmation.

You're not here to discuss, the use of a poll instead of just a "K and R if you think all slaves were mistreated" reveals your intent here, CreekDog.

I wish you could discuss instead of try to trap people and stir stuff up.

Or was there some post or reply that prompted this "solidarity poll"?

[CreekDog]

95. I'm not trying to trap anybody and this OP hasn't trapped anybody

and why oh why, are you so so so concerned that someone who thinks slaves weren't mistreated might be criticized for saying so, here?

and so you don't like it, almost 200 people have answered the poll voluntarily.

why is that not good enough for you?

You know what? that thread you wish i had posted instead of this one...

POST IT YOURSELF. i'm not here to post things that you think are awesome.

if there's something you want, YOU create it. i'm not your monkey.

[Gormy Cuss]

109. A " K & R" is a cloddish way to gather the same information.

With a poll, no post reply is needed. All it takes is a vote. It's easier and faster than posting a K & R.

As to trapping people, who would agree with that statement and also belong here ?

[NYC_SKP]

114. I look at poster's patterns.

The patterns reveal a lot about a member's motive.

As a shareholder, I'm not at liberty to say more.

[Gormy Cuss]

115. Looking at a poster's patterns is a criticism often leveled at the OP, as evidenced in this thread.

Apparently it's okay if others do it.

[CreekDog]

116. are you threatening me?

you don't own the place.

and who am i supposed to listen to, the 218 people that voted in the poll or you?

or are you saying your opinion is more important than 218 other opinions?

i actually think that's what this is all about. some posters are regular DUers and some aspire to be, you know, a little more.

[NYC_SKP]

121. Oh, heaven's no! You're my good buddy, you're the cowbell in my otherwise sedate DU world.

My opinion, who knows?

I was just thinking, by the way, of you after two weeks in the city, I was staying near Second at Folsom.

Damn, the construction projects are really impressive, though they do tie up traffic. I still think pedestrians need to let traffic flow and be cautious.

I think that we're almost at a point that we should just shut our private autos altogether, downtown.

And, it was good to see SF catch up to other cities with rentabikes or whatever they're called.

[lumberjack_jeff]

68. For the same reason CreekDog asks any poll question.

To create and maintain a shit list.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

69. Jeff...Jeff...Jeff

You're right, of course, but jeeze!

[lumberjack_jeff]

70. Since I'm already on the list, I see little reason to participate in any more polls. n/t

[Algernon Moncrieff]

71. Feel free to participate in my polls

I don't keep score, in general. Sometimes, I even end up agreeing with posters I had knock-down fights with the prior week.

[CreekDog]

81. hey, I don't keep score nor do i keep records

i'm glad you made a new friend, but if you're going to question my poll, you could at least not just blindly accept as truth whatever Jeff said about me.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

83. I'm done playing. I'm now in mourning

Enjoy this video. Good night.

[CreekDog]

84. +1

[AverageJoe90]

90. RIP Robin Williams. =( nt

[YoungDemCA]

46. Even if *some* slaveowners were sometimes "nice" to their slaves....

...that by no means excuses the evil, inhumane, peculiarly cruel and barbaric practice and institution that was the white European/American enslavement of African peoples and their descendants.

"#NotAllSlaveOwners"

[Hugabear]

47. There is no such thing as a good slaveowner

Anyone who makes that argument, ask them if they would be willing to give up all of their freedom, and be 100% owned and controlled by another person.

[oberliner]

49. What is the point of this survey question?

With 100 percent giving the same response - it seems to be a pointless exercise.

[CreekDog]

55. i think pointing out that DUers are united in opposing this RW quote (posted here by another...)

is a useful thing to do.

[oberliner]

57. OK

I missed the context of the earlier quote.

[Paladin]

51. Neo-Confederate propaganda, which has been around for decades.

At least six decades that I'm personally aware of, as I started hearing it when I was a small child. Genuinely sad that it still circulates in the present day.

[ladjf]

53. Being bought and sold like a farm animal is mistreatment not to mention

the brutalities of capture and transportation from Africa.

[ieoeja]

58. FYI: there was such a thing as "benevolent slavery".

Unfortunately, like all other facts regarding slavery in America, it is another fact that the pro-slavers today are trying to revise. They start by using the simple existance of benevolent slavery as evidence that "some" slaves were not mistreated. Later "some" becomes "many" and ultimately morphed into "most".

This revision rests on ignoring a very important portion of benevolent slavery. In most of the South, you could not free a Slave even if you wanted. It was illegal. So what could a free Black man do for his still enslaved family? Or for an enslaved friend?

He could buy them! And it is that to which benevolent slavery refers. In these circumstances the person is only legally a slave. In reality, there is no master-slave relationship.

In case anyone misses a second point, this not only explains where the weird idea of the happy slave comes from, but it also explains most of those "Blacks owned slaves in the South too" arguments. Free Blacks mostly only owned Black slaves so they could effectively free those slaves.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

61. My opinion only: What you describe would not truly be considered slavery

Yes, in a technical sense, there was (by the law of the day) ownership; however, the intent of the relationship was to circumvent the institution of slavery.

Good observation.

[AverageJoe90]

74. Slavery was nothing less than an extreme tragedy.

And I am thankful that we had men like Abe Lincoln, Frederick Douglass, William Garrison, Sojourner Truth, etc., who all took a principled stand against slavery, and all contributed to it's end. They are all heroes.

[Generic Other]

60. Is this the substitute thread for the annual

whether we should have dropped the bomb on Japan threads? Or did someone just pee in the genepool?

[Jefferson23]

63. Mistreated is not the language I would use, brutalized, terrorized and on and on. Owning another

human being goes beyond the depth of the meaning of the word, mistreated.

[AverageJoe90]

67. Sadly, false. Many were. nt

[CreekDog]

72. oh you didn't say that..."Many" slaves were mistreated? Seriously?

why not just say all slaves were mistreated?

given your track record...

[AverageJoe90]

73. Don't be an asshole about this. Please.

For goodness sakes, I was basically agreeing with your OP, and this is the kind of stunt you pull? I am seriously considering finally putting you on my ignore list. Enough is enough.

And this:

given your track record...

Just what are you implying by this, exactly?

[CreekDog]

76. i asked a simple question

many slaves were mistreated or they all were?

it's not a game of gotcha. i'll assume you mean all slaves were mistreated, by the institution itself and by those who owned slaves (by mere fact of owning them) and through other forms of abuse in addition to ownership.

[AverageJoe90]

78. "it's not a game of gotcha." Are you sure?

But perhaps I'll humor you.

i'll assume you mean all slaves were mistreated, by the institution itself and by those who owned slaves (by mere fact of owning them) and through other forms of abuse in addition to ownership.

You could say that, perhaps. Poor wording may have been a problem on my end, but there was still no excuse for the "given your track record...." comment, however. And I'd like an apology for that.

[CreekDog]

82. yeah and i'd like to stop hearing your whining about being a victim of your own words

in a thread about slavery.

i mean really.

[AverageJoe90]

88. What whining?

In fact, I even admitted to an error(or at least potential error) on my end. So, forgive me for not being oh-so-perfect, but at least I owned up to my mistake. I do deserve a little credit for that, at least.

[chrisa]

77. It's axiomatic that a slave is mistreated.

The very act of slavery is mistreatment.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

80. All slaves were mistreated...

...and mistreated is a mild way to say it. Rights are protected to secure liberty. Slavery violates the spirit of the Declaration of Independence and cheapens any illumination brought to society by the founding of the US.

[Takket]

85. 180-0 so far

not looking good for "yes".

[AverageJoe90]

89. And that's a good thing, in my view.

At least many of us know our history. Sadly, I doubt the same can be said of FreeRepuglic, or the Conservatroll Cave.

[CreekDog]

98. i agree it's a good thing

[NYC_SKP]

87. Why the use of past tense?

We still have slavery today, it's just taken a different form.

It's a no-brainer question, and you know it. Of course anyone living under any form of slavery is being mistreated.

The pathetic part is that people would rather use the in a non-anonymous poll as a way of generating nonproductive arguments than actually look at what's happening today, here in America and around the world.

Slavery is alive and well, friend.

[CreekDog]

92. the simple fact is this thread isn't for arguments, it's to show unity

about a horrendous statement that was made.

and the poll has done just that.

arguments? almost everyone is in agreement.

don't lecture me unless you get it right. you didn't.

[1StrongBlackMan]

126. We still have Slavery today ...

in America?

Please explain.

[NYC_SKP]

130. If you think American slavery is limited to the use of African slaves during the 17-19th century....

Then I will happily agree that your position is a fair, if narrow one. However, I won't accept that it's the only one.

To speak to that topic in a way that proposes it no longer exists except in our culture's past is a great disservice to people suffering today under debt bondage, child exploitation, prostitution, human trafficing and other modern every day instances. In America. Yes, indeed.

Maybe you should take it up with the US State Department: http://www.state.gov/j/tip/what/

Slavery is defined by the following international conventions:

The Slavery Convention (1926) says that “slavery is the status or condition of a person over whom any or all of the powers attaching to the right of ownership are exercised.”

International Labour Organization (ILO) Forced Labour Convention (No. 29), from 1930 defines forced labour as “All work or service that is exacted from any person under the menace of any penalty for which the said person has not offered himself voluntarily.”

Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 1948, says: “No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.”

Supplementary Convention on the Abolition of Slavery, The Slave Trade, and Institutions and Practices Similar to Slavery, 1956, lists modern forms of slavery: “Debt bondage, serfdom, forced marriage and the delivery of a child for the exploitation of that child are all slavery like practices and require criminalisation and abolishment.”
http://www.antislavery.org/english/slavery_today/what_is_modern_slavery.aspx

Maybe this thread is good for something, after all!

`

[1StrongBlackMan]

134. You neglected to mention that all of the forms of slavery ...

that you list is illegal in the United States.

http://www.state.gov/j/tip/what/

So, alive, yes: well ... nope.

[NYC_SKP]

135. Duh. Your link comes from my reply. Legality has nothing to do with it. It exists, FFS.

Did the OP specify legality? It really doesn't matter, it was a poll in response to a post that's still alive.

The OP didn't even link to the still-open post.

When we were moderators, we'd have locked this OP as a continued argument.

I don't think you and I disagree on any particular here. Slavery still exists, and yes, it's illegal now.

Shame that all this energy is wasted on such an obvious matter.

[1StrongBlackMan]

136. Okay. eom.

[alarimer]

91. I went to high school in the south and there was a lot of revisionist history around slavery.

How they had to "protect their investment." Seriously, I learned that in school.

It's nonsense, of course, because if they lost one, they could no doubt just acquire another.

[hlthe2b]

97. Of those who chose "other" only Algernon has provided his thoughts..

I'd surely like to hear from the others.

[KamaAina]

100. Who on Earth said that?!

[Gormy Cuss]

104. A DUer.

One who has now been shown the door.

[KamaAina]

106. Phew!

(big sigh of relief)

[bettyellen]

105. Someone started a thread after seeing "12 Years a Slave" saying it wasn't always so bad....

and at least one long time DUer defended that statement- and posted links about well treated slaves to "educate" us.
And yeah, the jury and hosts let it stand, but the Admins stepped in and locked it.

[KamaAina]

107. Jebus.

[bettyellen]

108. my thoughts exactly. apparently the SOP covers the rants of dumbshit racists these days....

I guess those are considered "current events", and not trolling. indeed.

[CreekDog]

113. and a jury wouldn't hide the statement saying slaves weren't mistreated

considering you had a timeout for hidden posts, i think given that the post on slavery wasn't hidden, your timeout was bullshit.

[Motown_Johnny]

101. Enslavement IS Mistreatment ! (to put it lightly)

It is not possible for someone who is a slave to not be mistreated. It would not matter in what manner they were housed or clothed or fed or treated. The denial of self determination is mistreatment.

[justabob]

117. right

Even if housed and served with five star luxury, slavery is slavery.... There's just no getting around that.

[KamaAina]

102. It is true that some slaveowners tried to protect their investment

in 1840's New Orleans, for instance, really heavy-duty labor like canal-digging was done by Irishmen, not slaves. The theory was that, if the Irishman died, there'd be another one on the dock the next day to take his place.

But it is one hell of a long way from that to "most of them weren't mistreated".

[TheKentuckian]

103. True or False, most liquid water is wet?

I feel like I missed the plot somewhere.

[dionysus]

110. doesn't matter if they were mistreated in the classical sense (beating). being owned as property is

mistreatment in and of itself.

[joeybee12]

111. I know what this is in response to, and I have to say the jury system is broken,

beacuse that post was allowed to stand...ridiculous...what was that poster doing, channeling the tiny, no-talent mind of Margaret Mitchell?

[Sunlei]

112. slavery is still legal and is always an injustice to those mistreated

Thirteenth Amendment, read it and understand that much of todays, 'made in America' is made by slaves.

[NM_Birder]

118. REALLY ?!

And I got two posts hidden, because when I called Chloe Kardashian "Mongo the Kardashian" people freaked and thought I was making fun of autistic children ??? SHE'S HUGE COMPARED TO HER SISTERS !

"Were slaves mistreated" ................. is that really a question ?

[Brickbat]

119. Being bought and sold is being mistreated.

[CreekDog]

120. yep, yep, yep

and it was posted on DU. i thought this would be an appropriate way to tell the now banned poster how we feel about right wing defenses of slavery. and no, they aren't better if they are phrased as a question.

[NYC_SKP]

122. You really should have put a link to whatever OP or reply prompted this whole discussion.

As it stands, it just looks like a poll about a question with a pretty obvious answer.

Makes me curious, and it's not like DU where you could have a post removed for continuing an argument from another thread.

It's a new DU!

It's DU3! Lemon freshened and juries!

[CreekDog]

123. Skippy, stop being lazy. If you know a better way to post something, DO IT YOURSELF

what am I, your servant?

ps-I wanted the quote judged on its own, apart from DU, just as the stupid RW meme that it is.

I see nothing wrong with freepers reading DU and reading a poll result that shows we are united in thinking RW memes about slavery are total bullshit.

[NYC_SKP]

124. I get it, I know, this is a "Unity Poll" to prove to Freepers that we are united in our whatever.

I love it when you call my Skippy!



And, no, I don't need a servant. They just make more work for me, thanks anyway.

So, seriously, why not just post the quote or the link to the reply or statement that made you compose this OP?

There's no rule against it on DU3, callouts used to be forbidden, as were arguments continued from another thread.

So, why no link or quote?

[MADem]

127. What the....? The condition of slavery is the definition of cruelty.

It doesn't matter if the slave is dressed in silk and riding in a Rolls Royce, slavery is dehumanizing, and inherently cruel.

There's only one answer to that question.

[CreekDog]

128. yes.

[Hosnon]

129. Even if you treat someone like royalty, denying them freedom equals mistreatment.

No wiggle room.

[rustydog]

132. They were kidnapped from their homes and families

they were sold as property. Some masters let them sleep in huts, with dirt floors, food was scraps starving dogs wouldn't touch and they were beaten for any reason on any day...when Master was horny, he'd rape whomever he wanted to rape...hang then if they looked at a white woman...

If that is the definition of good treatment, I need to get another dictionary.

[badtoworse]

133. Would have been relevant 150 years ago.

What difference does it make today? You can't change the past.

[CreekDog]

138. You mean we shouldnt talk about it or teach about it?

Smooth. But obvious.

[badtoworse]

141. It's just not that high on the radar right now.

[CreekDog]

143. whatever

badtoworse (5,183 posts)
337. "That seems like a pretty straightforward case of taxation without representation"

You're right; it is. The founding fathers did not want the capitol to be part of any state. You can argue that it's not or shouldn't be an issue anymore and there is some validity to that. My reasons for opposing it are personal. In any case, a constitutional amendment would be needed and that isn't in the cards.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4856805

[badtoworse]

144. So?

[CreekDog]

145. we're going to talk about it whether you want to change the subject or not

so that.

[badtoworse]

146. Knock yourself out.

[Tom Ripley]

137. It is false unmitigated bullshit

[Greybnk48]

142. The statement is stunningly ignorant!

Really offensive and not worthy of a discussion.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

147. Anyone who thinks slaves weren't mistreated needs to read some narratives

If there was a way to be physically or even emotionally cruel, the masters did it.

As Michael Parenti remarked many years ago, the owners did no work whatsoever. They did no farm work, no housework, and didn't even take care of their own children. They even hired overseers to run their plantations and keep the accounts. Yet they complained that the slaves were lazy.

And why not? Slavery lasted 250 years, longer than it has been illegal. Slaves knew that no matter how hard they worked, they would never be anything but slaves, nor would their children. There was no reason to work any harder than necessary to avoid a whipping.