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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Gunshine State
By DARA KAM
Palm Beach Post Capital Bureau
Updated: 9:21 a.m. Saturday, April 7, 2012
Posted: 11:18 p.m. Friday, April 6, 2012
TALLAHASSEE Gun rights supporters and gun control activists alike see Florida as one of the nations gun-friendliest states.
Its reputation as the Gunshine State is rooted in politics, culture and the seemingly irresistible force of Marion Hammer, a soft-spoken grandmother who parlayed her gun rights advocacy in Florida into becoming the first female president of the National Rifle Association.
The Feb. 26 shooting death of unarmed Trayvon Martin by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in Sanford has cast a national spotlight on Floridas first-in-the-nation stand your ground law, which allows individuals who feel threatened to use deadly force to defend themselves in any public place where they have a right to be.
But that law is just one of a slew of pro-gun laws that Florida has put on the books in the past 25 years.
It started in 1987 when Florida became the first state to create a shall issue concealed weapons license.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/how-the-nra-attained-dominance-in-the-gunshine-2288357.html?cxtype=rss_state
Daniel537
(1,560 posts)The Wild West, contrary to popular opinion, we are not.
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)Daniel537
(1,560 posts)Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)Kaleva
(36,248 posts)"but the county saw a 100% increase in murders: from 3 in 2009 to 6 in 2020."
Daniel537
(1,560 posts)is there any proof that Stand Your Ground had something to do with those additional 3 murders? Do we even know the method of killing?
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)"In the seven years since it was enacted, the Florida law and others like it have become an effective defense for an increasing number of people who have shot others, according to state records and media reports.
Justifiable homicides in Florida have tripled, according to Florida Department of Law Enforcement data. Other states have seen similar increases, FBI statistics show."
http://www.adn.com/2012/04/08/2412644/justifiable-homicides-increasing.html
Daniel537
(1,560 posts)SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)Daniel537
(1,560 posts)SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)Daniel537
(1,560 posts)Your the one questioning whether all the cases were correctly ruled, so as such i'm asking you if you think the police/state attorneys/judges/juries got them all wrong.
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)The point is that Florida is turning into the Wild West since gun laws have been weakened.
Statistics that show a decrease in crime rates don't tell the whole story. Gun violence has increased since murder-by-gun has been decriminalized.
Daniel537
(1,560 posts)I take it you've never heard of Caracas, Baghdad, Mogadishu, Ciudad Juarez etc...? If things are really that bad here, you should tell all those Cuban rafters who try to reach our shores every week that their headed towards a hell-hole! Turn back while you can!
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)No-one here has claimed it was.
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)belcffub
(595 posts)I posted this in another thread... seems to still fit
Under Stand Your Ground law a spike in justifiable homicides but there may be many causesThe majority of justifiable homicides among civilians occurred during commission of a felony by the victim. But the data show fully 60 percent of all killings ruled justifiable from 2000 to 2010 in Florida involved shootings by police who, because they deal with armed criminals on a daily basis, are trained in the use of deadly force and granted greater leeway in applying it.
so from your earlier posting and what I have read elsewhere the number of justifiable homicides in Florida went from 12 to 32ish per year... but if 60% are committed by law enforcement you are probably talking about 14 non-law enforcement justifiable homicides.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)Although keep in mind that they "tripled" from about 35 to about 100. So those 800,000 CCW permittees managed to kill only an extra 65 people in self-defense in a year, some of which will be home-defense situations where CCW is not a factor.
I don't see the problem with an extra 65 violent attackers dead by their intended victims a year. Probably stopped 10x that number of violent crimes.
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)It makes no difference if the shooters were civilians or police, if the killings were justified or not, or if the shooter or victim were criminals. They were all incidents of gun violence.
The earth got warmer too. Why do you think that gun laws caused the lower crime rate? I contend that it is the warmer earth doing it.
Prove me wrong.
spin
(17,493 posts)but while the new gun laws may not be the only cause of the decrease in the violent crime rate the fact that the violent crime rate decreased does prove that the new gun laws did not cause the violent crime rate to skyrocket.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)but there's no way I want them to fall into bad hands. I've quite a few handguns and rifles (including big scary ones I used to use for work- security and investigations) that I no longer need. I'm hoping to find friends or family who will give them a good home. My friend said I could sell them online, but I'd hate myself and be racked with guilt if they were ever used in a crime or accident.
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)You're certainly restricting your ability to sell them by not being willing to sell them to someone you don't know personally. Be aware that if you did choose to sell them on the internet (at a website such as gunbroker.com) you would have to sell them to someone who already had a Federal Firearms License (FFL) unless the buyer was in your state. Even then, some states require such private sales to go through an FFL. The FFL-holding person you sold it to would then have to follow all Federal firearms laws if they chose to re-sell it.
Er, I don't suppose any of those handguns are military issue, WW2 or earlier...?
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)I forgot if I went online that the buyer would have to be checked out by the ffl where they received the shipment. I may look into that. Thanks
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)at a local gun shop; the same rules would apply.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Come on, you don't really need us to do this thinking for you, really?
spin
(17,493 posts)and I also have to personally know the buyer.
The last time I sold any firearms was five years ago when I retired and moved from the Tampa Bay area of Florida. I sold five handguns to a co-worker and fellow shooter who had a carry permit and therefore had went through a background check. He tried out all these handguns on the range and was very satisfied that they were in excellent condition and functional reliable and accurate.
I was confident that my firearms had found a safe owner and would not be misused. I had found other handguns though the years which I personally preferred and rarely took the weapons I sold to the range.
I would like to see the NICS background check system currently in use for new purchases required for the sale of all private firearms or at least opened up for sellers who wished to insure that the weapons that they sold we not being bought by an individual with a criminal background.
I understand your concern. I would never want to see one of my firearms misused.
-..__...
(7,776 posts)Some pretty impressive accomplishments on the NRA's behalf...
The National Rifle Association has achieved many victories in Florida in recent years, but its been forced to compromise on a few measures.
NRA victories
Lists (2004): Prohibits creation of lists of gun owners by any governmental agency or private person or entity and creates a $5 million fine for creating any lists or registry.
Stand your ground (2005): Expands the Castle Doctrine, which allowed people to use deadly force when acting in self-defense in their homes, to include cars and any public place where they have a lawful right to be. Gives the presumption of innocence to people who claim self-defense when they use deadly force. Also removes a persons duty to retreat in the face of peril that was required under a previous self-defense law.
Public records (2006): Exempts permits to carry concealed weapons from public records laws, allowing people who have the permits to remain anonymous.
Pawnshops (2009): Blocks law enforcement officials from collecting data on firearm sales at pawnshops.
Adoption (2010): Prohibits adoption agencies from requiring prospective adoptive parents to disclose information about gun ownership and restricts gun ownership from being used to determine someones suitability to adopt a child.
Local laws (2011): Prevents local governments from enacting ordinances regulating firearms and ammunition. Includes a $5,000 fine, possible suspension, for elected officials who violate the law. The new law forced counties and municipalities to wipe hundreds of ordinances off the books. The Palm Beach County Commission has sued Gov. Rick Scott and Attorney General Pam Bondi over the law, arguing its sanctions are a form of political bullying that serves no governmental purpose.
Age limit (2012): Requires the state to issue a concealed weapons permit to applicants younger than 21 if they have military experience and are otherwise eligible. Otherwise the age requirement is 21 and older.
belcffub
(595 posts)NY has around 1,000,000 permit holders now... Erie County (where I live) I think was around 50,000 permit holders... but I would have to double check when I get home for an exact count... I get a yearly update to all NY weapons laws and they publish the numbers by county...
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)Thanks for trying, though.
-..__...
(7,776 posts)Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)sales to a gun control organization.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)While mainstream comics can be counted on to have the occasional anti-gun message slipped in (especially in Batman books), in large part they stay away from politics.
CanonRay
(14,084 posts)Astounding and very scary. i'm sure all 42,000 of those Orange county folks are responsible though. Right.
Kingofalldems
(38,422 posts)NRA! NRA! NRA!