General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHalf Of Americans Believe In Medical Conspiracy Theories
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/03/19/291405689/half-of-americans-believe-in-medical-conspiracy-theories"...
Half of Americans subscribe to medical conspiracy theories, with more than one-third of people thinking that the Food and Drug Administration is deliberately keeping natural cures for cancer off the market because of pressure from drug companies, a survey finds.
Twenty percent of people said that cellphones cause cancer and that large corporations are keeping health officials from doing anything about it. And another 20 percent think doctors and the government want to vaccinate children despite knowing that vaccines cause autism.
...
Oliver was studying political conspiracy theories when he realized that quite a few of them involved medical care, including vaccine avoidance and a vote rejecting water fluoridation in Portland, Ore.
...
Three other theories were each supported by 12 percent of people surveyed. They were that the CIA deliberately infected African-Americans with HIV, that genetically modified foods are a conspiracy to reduce population worldwide and that companies use water fluoridation to cover up pollution.
..."
I know this has been discussed before, but it seems like these conspiracy theories keep popping up, again and again.
Anyway...
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)so you can't blame some people for projecting even further.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Can you name the things of which you mention?
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Here's just one of many very real conspiracies that I am referring to:
Health-care costs and the moral hazard problem
An article posted Sunday on the Los Angeles Timess Web site reports that two new, potential blockbuster drugs to treat hepatitis C, Sovaldi and Olysio, will be priced as high as $1,000 per pill, or $84,000 for a 12-week treatment cycle.
Given the incidence of the illness, these prices could cost patients, insurers and taxpayers billions of dollars a year for California patients alone. This story illustrates one problem although certainly not the only one with the U.S. health-care system that makes it by far the most expensive in the world. (We spend about 18 percent of economic output on medical care.)
In the United States, private health insurance sometimes excludes from coverage certain categories of care but essentially covers all treatments with any medical efficacy for illnesses that are covered, without any consideration of cost effectiveness. Specifically, almost all insurance policies cover medically necessary care, a term usually left undefined. If the insurance company refuses to cover a treatment recommended by a patients physician, the law of at least 44 states provides the patient with the right to appeal the decision to an external review panel independent of the insurer. In almost all cases, the standard that the reviewer applies is entirely a medical one i.e., whether the treatment is expected to provide any medical benefit with no hint of concern for whether the likely medical benefits are justified in light of the treatments cost, at least in the absence of a lower-cost treatment option that is equally effective to the recommended one.
Under the Affordable Care Act, more people will have private health insurance coverage, and new breadth-of-coverage requirements (when finally enforced!) will mean patients will find that their policies exclude fewer categories of treatment. These reforms are net improvements, in my opinion at least, but they will exacerbate the moral hazard problem that plagues our health-care system and drives up costs.
It is easy to see what kind of incentives this system provides: Patients who have low-deductible, low co-payment insurance will demand any and all pharmaceuticals and other treatments that promise any benefit at all, net of the risks and side effects of the treatment, without regard to cost. This is a standard moral hazard problem. And pharmaceutical companies, device manufacturers and health-care providers will price their products and services accordingly. Especially when the product is under patent, this system provides precious little in the way of a check on the sellers pricing power.
GMO! GMO! GO MONSANTO GO GO GO!
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Come on, you can do better than pure fiction.
Right?
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Professor Korobkin is the author of the leading negotiation textbook, Negotiation Theory and Strategy, the contracts casebook, K: A Common Law Approach to Contracts, both published by Wolters Kluwer, and Stem Cell Century: Law and Policy for a Breakthrough Technology, published by Yale University Press. He has also published more than 50 law journal articles in the fields of behavioral law and economics, negotiation and alternative dispute resolution, contract law, the health care law and stem cell research, including Law and Behavioral Science: Removing the Rationality Assumption from Law and Economics, which is currently the most cited law review article published in the 21st Century. Most of his published articles, along with working papers, can be downloaded from the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) at http://ssrn.com/author=45482.
Contact Information
UCLA School of Law
385 Charles E. Young Dr. East
Los Angeles, CA, 90095
korobkin@law.ucla.edu
Your source?
http://www.monsanto.com/pages/default.aspx
Yeh, I know there's a whole lot of woo out there, and much of it comes from silly folk superstitions. A little common sense can usually separate the wheat from the chaff
But far more woo comes from the Third Way, and Corporate HQ, when they need to sell the public on their products. At one time, cigarettes were "physician tested and approved", and marijuana had no medicinal value. It was "science", damn it! Corporate HQ has the money and motive to sell their woo through by hiring "experts" to back their propaganda for profit.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)WOW!
BTW, because there some conspiracies turn out to be true, doesn't mean any of the conspiracies in the OP are true. The public evidence supporting the scientific consensus for all of those items is vast. Pretending otherwise is, well, pushing a baseless conspiracy theory.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)I'm saying that corporate sponsored "scientists" put out more bullshit woo than the purveyors of folk woo do, except that the woo put out by those seeking profit is generally more dangerous to life on the planet. And that it is irresponsible for individuals with minimal information on these subjects to be parroting the corporate line concerning the safety and efficacy of substances they don't really know jack shit about. Reading and parroting the opinions of corporate sponsored "scientific experts" does not make someone an all knowing scientific genius, and those who parrot such information subject themselves to justifiable questioning of their motivations for parroting and touting possibly toxic substances produced by profit seeking corporations that have not been proven by time to be completely safe.
I'm also saying that people who are lied to or cheated once too often have a tendency to be distrustful of those who lied to and cheated them, and that this itself can result in the production of some seriously stupid folk woo.
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, and a good deal of what was science yesterday is killing us today.
Here is just one small list containing the names of some of the many substances produced by corporate scientists that have been deemed safe for use by corporations and "corporate scientists" that were later found to be dangerous.
"Whoops" is a scary word, especially when used by scientists.
Description
The U.S. EPA maintains the list of banned or severely restricted pesticides as part of its participation in a voluntary international program known as the Prior Informed Consent (PIC) procedure.
A "banned" pesticide is defined as a pesticide for which all registered uses have been prohibited by final government action or for which all requests for registration or equivalent action for all uses have, for health or environmental reasons, not been granted.
A "severely restricted" pesticide is defined as a pesticide for which virtually all registered uses have been prohibited by final government regulatory action, but for which certain specific registered use or uses remain authorized.
Chemical Name CAS Registry Number (or EDF Substance ID)
ALDRIN 309-00-2
ARSENIC OXIDE (3) 1327-53-3
ASBESTOS (FRIABLE) 1332-21-4
AZODRIN 6923-22-4
1,4-BENZOQUINONE, 2,3,5,6-TETRACHLORO- 118-75-2
BINAPACRYL 485-31-4
2,3,4,5-BIS (2-BUTENYLENE) TETRAHYDROFURFURAL 126-15-8
BROMOXYNIL BUTYRATE EDF-186
CADMIUM COMPOUNDS CAE750
CALCIUM ARSENATE [2ASH3O4.2CA] 7778-44-1
CAMPHECHLOR 8001-35-2
CAPTAFOL 2425-06-1
CARBOFURAN 1563-66-2
CARBON TETRACHLORIDE 56-23-5
CHLORDANE 57-74-9
CHLORDECONE (KEPONE) 143-50-0
CHLORDIMEFORM 6164-98-3
CHLOROBENZILATE 510-15-6
CHLOROMETHOXYPROPYLMERCURIC ACETATE [CPMA] EDF-183
COPPER ARSENATE 10103-61-4
2,4-D, ISOOCTYL ESTER 25168-26-7
DAMINOZIDE 1596-84-5
DDD 72-54-8
DDT 50-29-3
DI(PHENYLMERCURY)DODECENYLSUCCINATE [PMDS] EDF-187
1,2-DIBROMO-3-CHLOROPROPANE (DBCP) 96-12-8
1,2-DIBROMOETHANE 106-93-4
1,2-DICHLOROETHANE 107-06-2
DIELDRIN 60-57-1
4,6-DINITRO-O-CRESOL 534-52-1
DINITROBUTYL PHENOL 88-85-7
ENDRIN 72-20-8
EPN 2104-64-5
ETHYLENE OXIDE 75-21-8
FLUOROACETAMIDE 640-19-7
GAMMA-LINDANE 58-89-9
HEPTACHLOR 76-44-8
HEXACHLOROBENZENE 118-74-1
1,2,3,4,5,6-HEXACHLOROCYCLOHEXANE (MIXTURE OF ISOMERS) 608-73-1
1,3-HEXANEDIOL, 2-ETHYL- 94-96-2
LEAD ARSENATE 7784-40-9
LEPTOPHOS 21609-90-5
MERCURY 7439-97-6
METHAMIDOPHOS 10265-92-6
METHYL PARATHION 298-00-0
MEVINPHOS 7786-34-7
MIREX 2385-85-5
NITROFEN 1836-75-5
OCTAMETHYLDIPHOSPHORAMIDE 152-16-9
PARATHION 56-38-2
PENTACHLOROPHENOL 87-86-5
PHENYLMERCURIC OLEATE [PMO] EDF-185
PHOSPHAMIDON 13171-21-6
PYRIMINIL 53558-25-1
SAFROLE 94-59-7
SODIUM ARSENATE 13464-38-5
SODIUM ARSENITE 7784-46-5
2,4,5-T 93-76-5
TERPENE POLYCHLORINATES (STROBANE6) 8001-50-1
THALLIUM(I) SULFATE 7446-18-6
2,4,5-TP ACID (SILVEX) 93-72-1
TRIBUTYLTIN COMPOUNDS EDF-184
2,4,5-TRICHLOROPHENOL 95-95-4
VINYL CHLORIDE 75-01-4
http://scorecard.goodguide.com/chemical-groups/one-list.tcl?short_list_name=brpest
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)I love the propaganda!
What you just did was show that science actually works, especially since many of the items on that list actually occur in nature, all by themselves. Who knew nature was a "corporate sponsored scientist!?" In the case of conspiracy theories that are pushed, the science usually works, but now we may be facing a time where "activists" do more harm than good as they push nonsense upon the public.
ck4829
(35,039 posts)Hidden cure for cancers, HIV conspiracy theories, etc.
They're all hogwash, but people do know that if they aren't 'worth' receiving medical care from the 'greatest health care system in the world', then it becomes prohibitively expensive.
Americans distrust medicine. Should they? No. But as long as we have a system that places a person's money above a person's health, then that will be a system that will help give birth to these conspiracy theories.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)And that probably plays a role, but one cannot ignore the marketing of scam artists, who are allowed to make outlandish claims without evidence and without the possibility of repercussions. It's hard for me to see a difference in the scams pulled on people regarding health concerns, and someone conning and elderly out of their money. The outcome is the same. No?
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Plus, there's plenty of silliness to be sold to those who are gullible.
Bigmack
(8,020 posts)About half of Americans believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old.
40% of Americans believe "death panels" are part of Obamacare.
Half of Americans believe there was a connection between Saddam and 9-11.
20% of Americans believe that the sun revolves around the earth.
LOTS of Americans are dumbshits!
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Well, it worked.
Generic Brad
(14,272 posts)Are you actually claiming the earth revolves around the sun? Better be able to back up such a fantastic claim with a Bible quote. Next thing, I suppose you're going to convince me the tooth fairy was my mom.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)There are idiots in Russia,
conspiracy nuts in France-
Fundies in Syria beheading people because of mythology-
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)But I'm not sure they're going to make it to the playoffs.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Old mascots never die, but they do hang on much too long!
leftstreet
(36,101 posts)How shocking
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Pfffffft.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)spent on it.
They voted and passed legislation that constructed Medicaid and Medicare in manner that forced tight restrictions federal money spent through those programs on mental illness
Attempts to change it regularly failed.
Believe it ot not, it turned out to be easier to force insurance companies to equitable treatment of physical and mental illness.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)The goofballs are in league with the pseudoscience folks in pretending that the brain is not, well, biological.
Logical
(22,457 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Oh, goodness, but that is a good one!
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)Science isn't "sexy."
Those that present the conspiracy theories are often charismatic. They bring a lot of theater to their skillfully crafted presentations (as well as "glitz and glamor" . The "information" presented has more in common with a "slick" sales pitch, than educational material.
"Information" is presented in easy to understand ways (without regard to fact and high regard for fiction) .... requiring no prior knowledge or understanding on the part of the receiver.
Scientific information is narrow in spectrum, often presented in a "flat" (non-entertaining manner) and requires a certain sub-set of prior knowledge.
Couple this with distrust of large corporate entities (and our own government) and a health care system where access and quality are inextricably linked to wealth (ability to pay for the services), the charlatans promoting pseudoscience/ quackery are in a prime position to influence people.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)An interesting piece on the topic: http://guardianlv.com/2014/03/psychology-behind-conspiracy-theories/
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)Many believe in medical conspiracies, for instance, because the conspiracy is often far easier to believe than the complexities of the medical process itself. Many people tend to shut down during a meeting with their doctor where they receive news about their medical condition. Generally, they hear the scary word cancer, or multiple sclerosis, or melanoma, or whatever the case may be and then everything following that becomes a blur. That is the human brain protecting itself until there is an ability to appropriately process the information the psychology behind that mechanism is self-preservation. The conspiracy theory that they may hear regarding their medical condition seems more reasonable than the complicated medical information they may receive about their condition.99
Read more at http://guardianlv.com/2014/03/psychology-behind-conspiracy-theories/#DdJbrhYFr7Cq6h1P.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)How long did the US Government keep the lid on that one?
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2005/06/tob2-j13.html
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Not that said trope has anything to do with the six conspiracies listed in the OP.
Tobacco and the global lung cancer epidemic
http://med.stanford.edu/biostatistics/abstract/RobertProctor_paper1.pdf
Regarding the science made mistakes tropes? Debunked by real science
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/regarding-science-mistakes-tropes-debunked/
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Say "Conspiracy Theory" enough times and people will ignore the Conspiracies of History, which is how we've gotten to this sorry "Money trumps peace" state of affairs where banksters and traitors are above the law.