Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 08:29 PM Aug 2014

Half Of Americans Believe In Medical Conspiracy Theories

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/03/19/291405689/half-of-americans-believe-in-medical-conspiracy-theories

"...

Half of Americans subscribe to medical conspiracy theories, with more than one-third of people thinking that the Food and Drug Administration is deliberately keeping natural cures for cancer off the market because of pressure from drug companies, a survey finds.

Twenty percent of people said that cellphones cause cancer — and that large corporations are keeping health officials from doing anything about it. And another 20 percent think doctors and the government want to vaccinate children despite knowing that vaccines cause autism.

...

Oliver was studying political conspiracy theories when he realized that quite a few of them involved medical care, including vaccine avoidance and a vote rejecting water fluoridation in Portland, Ore.

...

Three other theories were each supported by 12 percent of people surveyed. They were that the CIA deliberately infected African-Americans with HIV, that genetically modified foods are a conspiracy to reduce population worldwide and that companies use water fluoridation to cover up pollution.

..."



I know this has been discussed before, but it seems like these conspiracy theories keep popping up, again and again.

Anyway...

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Half Of Americans Believe In Medical Conspiracy Theories (Original Post) HuckleB Aug 2014 OP
when is discussing creative speculation not creative speculation? KurtNYC Aug 2014 #1
I believe there is a specific forum for that, yet it keeps showing up in GD. HuckleB Aug 2014 #4
We are all powerless victims of very real health insurance/pharmaceutical company conspiracies, Zorra Aug 2014 #2
If it's a conspiracy, it's probably not true. HuckleB Aug 2014 #8
Yeah. Here.. Zorra Aug 2014 #14
So, you didn't understand that I meant something from legitimate sources. HuckleB Aug 2014 #16
lol! Nice try. My source, compared to your source ~ Zorra Aug 2014 #19
So you're not just trying to put words in my mouth, you're putting sources into my mouth, too. HuckleB Aug 2014 #20
I never said the issues brought up in the OP were "true". Zorra Aug 2014 #22
"Corporate sponsored scientists." HuckleB Aug 2014 #29
I don't like the idea of these conspiracy theories but I can understand why people make them ck4829 Aug 2014 #3
Our health care system sucks. HuckleB Aug 2014 #5
we need single payer. That might be a cure for conspiracy theories. Louisiana1976 Aug 2014 #27
It could help, but people seem to love to spread fear. HuckleB Aug 2014 #34
80% of Americans believe in angels, too.... Bigmack Aug 2014 #6
Are you trying to depress me? HuckleB Aug 2014 #7
Wait one minute... Generic Brad Aug 2014 #11
It's not limitied to Americans, look at consipracy theories in Africa about Ebola snooper2 Aug 2014 #21
I believe in the Angels! Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #31
It's time for the Rally Monkey to retire. HuckleB Aug 2014 #37
BREAKING: Americans distrustful of BigPharma and Gvt leftstreet Aug 2014 #9
Breaking: Evidence means nothing. HuckleB Aug 2014 #15
Not a conspiracy theory, most people in Congress think mental illness isn't worth the money HereSince1628 Aug 2014 #10
Much too true. HuckleB Aug 2014 #12
My favorite is the 150 MPG carburetor that the oil companies kept off the market. nt Logical Aug 2014 #13
Carburetors were always far too technical for the conspiracy crowd. HuckleB Aug 2014 #17
Tuesday kick. HuckleB Aug 2014 #18
Politicians should stop pandering to anti-fluoridation campaigners HuckleB Aug 2014 #23
Anti-Fluoriders Are The OG Anti-Vaxxers HuckleB Aug 2014 #24
My view, admittedly simplistic is ... etherealtruth Aug 2014 #25
Indeed. And selling fear is one of the easiest things to do to a fellow human. HuckleB Aug 2014 #26
This sums up my beliefs perfectly (expressed far more eloquently than I did) etherealtruth Aug 2014 #28
+1 HuckleB Aug 2014 #30
As if cigarettes are bad for you. Octafish Aug 2014 #32
The history of the science knowledge of the matter is often ignored by that trope. HuckleB Aug 2014 #33
Correct. It's a matter of semantics. Octafish Aug 2014 #35
I think you're convoluting issues. HuckleB Aug 2014 #36

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
2. We are all powerless victims of very real health insurance/pharmaceutical company conspiracies,
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 08:34 PM
Aug 2014

so you can't blame some people for projecting even further.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
14. Yeah. Here..
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 10:24 PM
Aug 2014

Here's just one of many very real conspiracies that I am referring to:

The Volokh Conspiracy
Health-care costs and the ‘moral hazard’ problem

An article posted Sunday on the Los Angeles Times’s Web site reports that two new, potential blockbuster drugs to treat hepatitis C, Sovaldi and Olysio, will be priced as high as $1,000 per pill, or $84,000 for a 12-week treatment cycle.

Given the incidence of the illness, these prices could cost patients, insurers and taxpayers billions of dollars a year for California patients alone. This story illustrates one problem – although certainly not the only one – with the U.S. health-care system that makes it by far the most expensive in the world. (We spend about 18 percent of economic output on medical care.)

In the United States, private health insurance sometimes excludes from coverage certain categories of care but essentially covers all treatments with any medical efficacy for illnesses that are covered, without any consideration of cost effectiveness. Specifically, almost all insurance policies cover “medically necessary” care, a term usually left undefined. If the insurance company refuses to cover a treatment recommended by a patient’s physician, the law of at least 44 states provides the patient with the right to appeal the decision to an external review panel independent of the insurer. In almost all cases, the standard that the reviewer applies is entirely a medical one – i.e., whether the treatment is expected to provide any medical benefit – with no hint of concern for whether the likely medical benefits are justified in light of the treatment’s cost, at least in the absence of a lower-cost treatment option that is equally effective to the recommended one.

Under the Affordable Care Act, more people will have private health insurance coverage, and new breadth-of-coverage requirements (when finally enforced!) will mean patients will find that their policies exclude fewer categories of treatment. These reforms are net improvements, in my opinion at least, but they will exacerbate the moral hazard problem that plagues our health-care system and drives up costs.

It is easy to see what kind of incentives this system provides: Patients who have low-deductible, low co-payment insurance will demand any and all pharmaceuticals and other treatments that promise any benefit at all, net of the risks and side effects of the treatment, without regard to cost. This is a standard “moral hazard” problem. And pharmaceutical companies, device manufacturers and health-care providers will price their products and services accordingly. Especially when the product is under patent, this system provides precious little in the way of a check on the seller’s pricing power.


GMO! GMO! GO MONSANTO GO GO GO!


HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
16. So, you didn't understand that I meant something from legitimate sources.
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 10:59 PM
Aug 2014

Come on, you can do better than pure fiction.

Right?

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
19. lol! Nice try. My source, compared to your source ~
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 03:05 PM
Aug 2014
My source:

Russell Korobkin is the Richard C. Maxwell Professor of Law at the UCLA School of Law, where he teaches Contracts, Negotiation, and Health Care Law. Prior to joining the UCLA faculty in 2001, he held appointments at the University of Illinois College of Law and the University of Illinois Institute of Government and Public Affairs. He has taught as a full-time visiting professor at Harvard Law School (2007) and the University of Texas School of Law (1999-2000), and has taught short courses at the University of Arizona, the University of Houston, the University of Nevada-Las Vegas, Pepperdine University, and Vanderbilt University. He is a regular visiting professor at the German Graduate School of Business and Law in Heilbronn, Germany (Negotiation) and La Trobe University in Melbourne, Australia (Contracts). Prior to entering law teaching, Professor Korobkin graduated from Stanford University and Stanford Law School, clerked for the Honorable James L. Buckley of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, and worked as an associate at the law firm of Covington & Burling in Washington, D.C.

Professor Korobkin is the author of the leading negotiation textbook, Negotiation Theory and Strategy, the contracts casebook, K: A Common Law Approach to Contracts, both published by Wolters Kluwer, and Stem Cell Century: Law and Policy for a Breakthrough Technology, published by Yale University Press. He has also published more than 50 law journal articles in the fields of behavioral law and economics, negotiation and alternative dispute resolution, contract law, the health care law and stem cell research, including Law and Behavioral Science: Removing the Rationality Assumption from Law and Economics, which is currently the most cited law review article published in the 21st Century. Most of his published articles, along with working papers, can be downloaded from the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) at http://ssrn.com/author=45482.
Contact Information
UCLA School of Law
385 Charles E. Young Dr. East
Los Angeles, CA, 90095
korobkin@law.ucla.edu


Your source?

http://www.monsanto.com/pages/default.aspx

Yeh, I know there's a whole lot of woo out there, and much of it comes from silly folk superstitions. A little common sense can usually separate the wheat from the chaff

But far more woo comes from the Third Way, and Corporate HQ, when they need to sell the public on their products. At one time, cigarettes were "physician tested and approved", and marijuana had no medicinal value. It was "science", damn it! Corporate HQ has the money and motive to sell their woo through by hiring "experts" to back their propaganda for profit.

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
20. So you're not just trying to put words in my mouth, you're putting sources into my mouth, too.
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 03:09 PM
Aug 2014

WOW!

BTW, because there some conspiracies turn out to be true, doesn't mean any of the conspiracies in the OP are true. The public evidence supporting the scientific consensus for all of those items is vast. Pretending otherwise is, well, pushing a baseless conspiracy theory.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
22. I never said the issues brought up in the OP were "true".
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 04:09 PM
Aug 2014

I'm saying that corporate sponsored "scientists" put out more bullshit woo than the purveyors of folk woo do, except that the woo put out by those seeking profit is generally more dangerous to life on the planet. And that it is irresponsible for individuals with minimal information on these subjects to be parroting the corporate line concerning the safety and efficacy of substances they don't really know jack shit about. Reading and parroting the opinions of corporate sponsored "scientific experts" does not make someone an all knowing scientific genius, and those who parrot such information subject themselves to justifiable questioning of their motivations for parroting and touting possibly toxic substances produced by profit seeking corporations that have not been proven by time to be completely safe.

I'm also saying that people who are lied to or cheated once too often have a tendency to be distrustful of those who lied to and cheated them, and that this itself can result in the production of some seriously stupid folk woo.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, and a good deal of what was science yesterday is killing us today.

Here is just one small list containing the names of some of the many substances produced by corporate scientists that have been deemed safe for use by corporations and "corporate scientists" that were later found to be dangerous.

"Whoops" is a scary word, especially when used by scientists.

List: Banned or Severely Restricted Pesticides (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency)
Description
The U.S. EPA maintains the list of banned or severely restricted pesticides as part of its participation in a voluntary international program known as the Prior Informed Consent (PIC) procedure.

A "banned" pesticide is defined as a pesticide for which all registered uses have been prohibited by final government action or for which all requests for registration or equivalent action for all uses have, for health or environmental reasons, not been granted.

A "severely restricted" pesticide is defined as a pesticide for which virtually all registered uses have been prohibited by final government regulatory action, but for which certain specific registered use or uses remain authorized.

Chemical Name CAS Registry Number (or EDF Substance ID)
ALDRIN 309-00-2
ARSENIC OXIDE (3) 1327-53-3
ASBESTOS (FRIABLE) 1332-21-4
AZODRIN 6923-22-4
1,4-BENZOQUINONE, 2,3,5,6-TETRACHLORO- 118-75-2
BINAPACRYL 485-31-4
2,3,4,5-BIS (2-BUTENYLENE) TETRAHYDROFURFURAL 126-15-8
BROMOXYNIL BUTYRATE EDF-186
CADMIUM COMPOUNDS CAE750
CALCIUM ARSENATE [2ASH3O4.2CA] 7778-44-1
CAMPHECHLOR 8001-35-2
CAPTAFOL 2425-06-1
CARBOFURAN 1563-66-2
CARBON TETRACHLORIDE 56-23-5
CHLORDANE 57-74-9
CHLORDECONE (KEPONE) 143-50-0
CHLORDIMEFORM 6164-98-3
CHLOROBENZILATE 510-15-6
CHLOROMETHOXYPROPYLMERCURIC ACETATE [CPMA] EDF-183
COPPER ARSENATE 10103-61-4
2,4-D, ISOOCTYL ESTER 25168-26-7
DAMINOZIDE 1596-84-5
DDD 72-54-8
DDT 50-29-3
DI(PHENYLMERCURY)DODECENYLSUCCINATE [PMDS] EDF-187
1,2-DIBROMO-3-CHLOROPROPANE (DBCP) 96-12-8
1,2-DIBROMOETHANE 106-93-4
1,2-DICHLOROETHANE 107-06-2
DIELDRIN 60-57-1
4,6-DINITRO-O-CRESOL 534-52-1
DINITROBUTYL PHENOL 88-85-7
ENDRIN 72-20-8
EPN 2104-64-5
ETHYLENE OXIDE 75-21-8
FLUOROACETAMIDE 640-19-7
GAMMA-LINDANE 58-89-9
HEPTACHLOR 76-44-8
HEXACHLOROBENZENE 118-74-1
1,2,3,4,5,6-HEXACHLOROCYCLOHEXANE (MIXTURE OF ISOMERS) 608-73-1
1,3-HEXANEDIOL, 2-ETHYL- 94-96-2
LEAD ARSENATE 7784-40-9
LEPTOPHOS 21609-90-5
MERCURY 7439-97-6
METHAMIDOPHOS 10265-92-6
METHYL PARATHION 298-00-0
MEVINPHOS 7786-34-7
MIREX 2385-85-5
NITROFEN 1836-75-5
OCTAMETHYLDIPHOSPHORAMIDE 152-16-9
PARATHION 56-38-2
PENTACHLOROPHENOL 87-86-5
PHENYLMERCURIC OLEATE [PMO] EDF-185
PHOSPHAMIDON 13171-21-6
PYRIMINIL 53558-25-1
SAFROLE 94-59-7
SODIUM ARSENATE 13464-38-5
SODIUM ARSENITE 7784-46-5
2,4,5-T 93-76-5
TERPENE POLYCHLORINATES (STROBANE6) 8001-50-1
THALLIUM(I) SULFATE 7446-18-6
2,4,5-TP ACID (SILVEX) 93-72-1
TRIBUTYLTIN COMPOUNDS EDF-184
2,4,5-TRICHLOROPHENOL 95-95-4
VINYL CHLORIDE 75-01-4

http://scorecard.goodguide.com/chemical-groups/one-list.tcl?short_list_name=brpest

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
29. "Corporate sponsored scientists."
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 06:54 PM
Aug 2014

I love the propaganda!

What you just did was show that science actually works, especially since many of the items on that list actually occur in nature, all by themselves. Who knew nature was a "corporate sponsored scientist!?" In the case of conspiracy theories that are pushed, the science usually works, but now we may be facing a time where "activists" do more harm than good as they push nonsense upon the public.

ck4829

(35,039 posts)
3. I don't like the idea of these conspiracy theories but I can understand why people make them
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 08:40 PM
Aug 2014

Hidden cure for cancers, HIV conspiracy theories, etc.

They're all hogwash, but people do know that if they aren't 'worth' receiving medical care from the 'greatest health care system in the world', then it becomes prohibitively expensive.

Americans distrust medicine. Should they? No. But as long as we have a system that places a person's money above a person's health, then that will be a system that will help give birth to these conspiracy theories.

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
5. Our health care system sucks.
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 08:47 PM
Aug 2014

And that probably plays a role, but one cannot ignore the marketing of scam artists, who are allowed to make outlandish claims without evidence and without the possibility of repercussions. It's hard for me to see a difference in the scams pulled on people regarding health concerns, and someone conning and elderly out of their money. The outcome is the same. No?

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
34. It could help, but people seem to love to spread fear.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:14 PM
Aug 2014

Plus, there's plenty of silliness to be sold to those who are gullible.

 

Bigmack

(8,020 posts)
6. 80% of Americans believe in angels, too....
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 08:57 PM
Aug 2014

About half of Americans believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old.

40% of Americans believe "death panels" are part of Obamacare.

Half of Americans believe there was a connection between Saddam and 9-11.

20% of Americans believe that the sun revolves around the earth.

LOTS of Americans are dumbshits!

Generic Brad

(14,272 posts)
11. Wait one minute...
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 10:10 PM
Aug 2014

Are you actually claiming the earth revolves around the sun? Better be able to back up such a fantastic claim with a Bible quote. Next thing, I suppose you're going to convince me the tooth fairy was my mom.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
21. It's not limitied to Americans, look at consipracy theories in Africa about Ebola
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 03:11 PM
Aug 2014

There are idiots in Russia,

conspiracy nuts in France-

Fundies in Syria beheading people because of mythology-


HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
10. Not a conspiracy theory, most people in Congress think mental illness isn't worth the money
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 10:04 PM
Aug 2014

spent on it.

They voted and passed legislation that constructed Medicaid and Medicare in manner that forced tight restrictions federal money spent through those programs on mental illness

Attempts to change it regularly failed.

Believe it ot not, it turned out to be easier to force insurance companies to equitable treatment of physical and mental illness.



HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
12. Much too true.
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 10:10 PM
Aug 2014

The goofballs are in league with the pseudoscience folks in pretending that the brain is not, well, biological.

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
17. Carburetors were always far too technical for the conspiracy crowd.
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 11:46 PM
Aug 2014

Oh, goodness, but that is a good one!

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
25. My view, admittedly simplistic is ...
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 06:04 PM
Aug 2014

Science isn't "sexy."

Those that present the conspiracy theories are often charismatic. They bring a lot of theater to their skillfully crafted presentations (as well as "glitz and glamor&quot . The "information" presented has more in common with a "slick" sales pitch, than educational material.

"Information" is presented in easy to understand ways (without regard to fact and high regard for fiction) .... requiring no prior knowledge or understanding on the part of the receiver.

Scientific information is narrow in spectrum, often presented in a "flat" (non-entertaining manner) and requires a certain sub-set of prior knowledge.

Couple this with distrust of large corporate entities (and our own government) and a health care system where access and quality are inextricably linked to wealth (ability to pay for the services), the charlatans promoting pseudoscience/ quackery are in a prime position to influence people.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
28. This sums up my beliefs perfectly (expressed far more eloquently than I did)
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 06:15 PM
Aug 2014
Many believe in medical conspiracies, for instance, because the conspiracy is often far easier to believe than the complexities of the medical process itself. Many people tend to shut down during a meeting with their doctor where they receive news about their medical condition. Generally, they hear the scary word – cancer, or multiple sclerosis, or melanoma, or whatever the case may be – and then everything following that becomes a blur. That is the human brain protecting itself until there is an ability to appropriately process the information – the psychology behind that mechanism is self-preservation. The conspiracy theory that they may hear regarding their medical condition seems more reasonable than the complicated medical information they may receive about their condition.
Read more at http://guardianlv.com/2014/03/psychology-behind-conspiracy-theories/#DdJbrhYFr7Cq6h1P.
99

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
33. The history of the science knowledge of the matter is often ignored by that trope.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 07:45 PM
Aug 2014

Not that said trope has anything to do with the six conspiracies listed in the OP.

Tobacco and the global lung cancer epidemic
http://med.stanford.edu/biostatistics/abstract/RobertProctor_paper1.pdf

Regarding the “science made mistakes” tropes? Debunked by real science
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/regarding-science-mistakes-tropes-debunked/

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
35. Correct. It's a matter of semantics.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 10:05 PM
Aug 2014

Say "Conspiracy Theory" enough times and people will ignore the Conspiracies of History, which is how we've gotten to this sorry "Money trumps peace" state of affairs where banksters and traitors are above the law.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Half Of Americans Believe...