Web Trolls Winning as Incivility Increases

[boston bean]

snip...

The Internet may be losing the war against trolls. At the very least, it isn’t winning. And unless social networks, media sites and governments come up with some innovative way of defeating online troublemakers, the digital world will never be free of the trolls’ collective sway.

......

“As long as the Internet keeps operating according to a click-based economy, trolls will maybe not win, but they will always be present,” said Whitney Phillips, a lecturer at Humboldt State University and the author of “This Is Why We Can’t Have Nice Things,” a forthcoming book about her years of studying bad behavior online. “The faster that the whole media system goes, the more trolls have a foothold to stand on. They are perfectly calibrated to exploit the way media is disseminated these days.”

snip....

But Dr. Phillips, of Humboldt State, pointed out that many efforts to curb trolling ran into a larger problem: “To what extent do you want to make it harder for people to express themselves on the Internet?” she asked.

“This is not the good-faith exchange of ideas,” she said. “It’s just people being nasty, and if anything, it might encourage marginalized groups to not speak up.” She added, “On the other hand, by silencing that valve, there’s a lot of other stuff that is important culturally that might also be minimized.”

If there’s one thing the history of the Internet has taught us, it’s that trolls will be difficult to contain because they really reflect base human society in all its ugliness. Trolls find a way. “It’s not a question of whether or not we’re winning the war on trolling, but whether we’re winning the war on misogyny, or racism, and ableism and all this other stuff,” Dr. Phillips said. “Trolling is just a symptom of those bigger problems.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/15/technology/web-trolls-winning-as-incivility-increases.html?_r=0

[onehandle]

1. DU is Troll Central.

The owners are banking on 'Discussionist' and have let the trolls take over DU.

[boston bean]

2. I think the last few months here have been slow.

There are not as many new posts, and less replies.

And I don't think it's because of discussionist. I think it may be because people are probably tired of fighting with trolls. You can barely have a good conversation any more.

Maybe it's my imagination, but I don't think so.

[onehandle]

6. Trolls win.

They are running the alerts.

They are running the juries.

They are running the dissent.

[boston bean]

9. Yeah all that adds to the frustration and

level of dissatisfaction.

[betterdemsonly]

20. The jury system is a gift to organized trolling

Why can't we have volunteer moderators?

[SidDithers]

23. Trolling?...

Like:

Anybody else posting at DU and Dailykos. Any ideas for talking about chained cpi
any ideas on how to encourage green voting without getting banned?

Sid

[Live and Learn]

3. Obviously you haven't been to many other boards.

DU is quite civil in comparison.

[boston bean]

4. It use to be a bit of a tighter ship, with a lot less trolls.

So, I guess it comes down to what one is comparing.

[etherealtruth]

10. I am not sure if there were more of them ....

... but, they were dealt with swiftly and were not allowed to wreak as much havoc as they are allowed to do now

[boston bean]

12. true, it almost takes an act of god

sometimes for it to make it up the flag pole and get those who can do something about it, to do something about it.

I don't know the reason for that. Whether it is a reliance on juries, which I don't think they should. Juries aren't good at taking care of trolls who show a pattern. It deals with specific posts. And by the time it's taken care of sometimes months and in other cases years have passed, the damage has been done.

[Cali_Democrat]

5. Happy 42,000 posts!! Right on the button!!

[NuclearDem]

8. This place is quite possibly one of the most civil and troll-free I've seen.

[onehandle]

19. LOL! nt

[Iggo]

24. No it ain't.

Not even close.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. To wit:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12596440

[Kingofalldems]

7. When I was in MIRT I estimated about 80% of newbies were trolls.

Most of them were dispatched but some get through.

[onehandle]

17. And they imbed. nt

[Ellipsis]

11. nah

[el_bryanto]

13. That last statement requires some thought

I think some trollism is caused by misogyny/racism/bigotry of various types. On the other hand, I think our modern civilization has a way of making people feel weak and powerless, and they look for ways to feel more in control. They get angry or worked up, but they can't take out those feelings on the people around them so they go online and look for ways to do that.

Bryant

[boston bean]

15. So many times the persons or groups they need to take something out on

are groups or people that are already discriminated against. Easy targets to make themselves feel better. It's societal and cultural.

Takes special kinds of assholes to do that, I'm sure you would agree?

[el_bryanto]

16. Nods - special but unfortunately common

I don't know if it's easy targets so much as it is targets they don't feel empathy towards. Probably a combination of the two actually.

Bryant

[Jim Lane]

21. I think that expressions of bigotry are more often an effect than a cause.

I've participated in nonpolitical discussion boards where there's no occasion for misogyny, racism, etc., and there are still some people who act like jerks.

As you say, people get angry or worked up (although I'm not sure how much of that is because of modern civilization -- I suspect it predates written language, never mind the Internet). If they want to act out, they often find that disempowered groups are a comparatively safe target, but if those targets aren't available (or aren't safe in a particular case), they find others. In addition, some people just seem to get their jollies by annoying others.

Another factor, often noted, is that people are more likely to be uncivil when they're anonymous. Prohibiting anonymity would curtail participation in some sites, like DU, and would completely destroy other sites, but it's an experiment that more sites may be tempted to try if they agree that the problem is worsening.

[Jamaal510]

14. I think

the only real solution to trolling is for people to not feed them and to possibly even stay away from the comment sections of certain boards. Trolls obviously get their entertainment from the reactions of other people. And for me at least, I have been training myself to stay away from the YouTube comments section after reading a bunch of racist insults on every black video I come across. Judging from the way that trolling is described in this article, it sounds like something that has been around forever, except now people can act like jackasses anonymously and it's more convenient than ever.

P.S. I wonder what department Dr. Phillips is in. This is the first time I heard of her after attending HSU for about a year now.

[LittleBlue]

18. +1.

Trolling can't be eliminated, they can be starved of attention, though. And technological solutions can help.

Eliminating anonymity or comments altogether, like two in the article suggested, would just cause those sites to lose users to rivals who welcome comments. Comment sections have been adopted by nearly every news site because they generate more hits than sites without comments.

[Nye Bevan]

22. I think MIRT and the jury system do a great job here.

Do those who claim that DU is "infested with trolls" ever look at Youtube comments, for example?

[SidDithers]

25. +1...

and usually, it's the same trolls who come back again over and over and over and over.

I think one of DU's biggest shortcomings is the inability keep banned posters from returning from the grave. If the zombies and sockpuppets were somehow eliminated, there would be much less trolling at DU.

Sid

[MindPilot]

27. I learned early in my life to assume that everyone is an asshole until proven otherwise.

The Internet has demonstrated that mantra to be absolute truth. Although I am still astonished at the level of hate, bigotry, and just plain stupidity displayed by my fellow humans.

[conservaphobe]

28. Anonymity makes it easier and makes people nastier.

The major social networks should require validation via government-issued identification.

A majority of people think twice about saying or doing something when their identity is attached to it.