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Sun Aug 17, 2014, 04:07 PM

 

For the "let's wait for the facts" crowd. We already have several facts.

I have some 5 essential FACTS about the Mike Brown case. These are not in dispute & agreed upon by all sides.

1. According to the Police Chief Officer Darren Wilson DID NOT know about the stolen cigars & all agree the stop was just about jaywalking.

2. A struggle ensued at the window of the car. Dorian Johnson & 4 eyewitnesses saw it ONE way. We can assume Officer Wilson sees it another

3. Mike Brown fled on foot and got about 35 feet away from the truck. His body was found 35 feet away from the truck. So key.

4. Mike Brown was unarmed from start to finish. This is never in dispute.

5. Officer did not file a report and almost no witnesses were interviewed the day of the murder. This was well before DOJ intervention.

So, now that those 5 facts are clear. Let's agree they are all important. However, I want to speak on two facts in particular.

Mike Brown's lifeless body was found about 33 feet from the police SUV. Brains on the ground. Blood everywhere. He died there.

It is being reported by friends & family of Darren Wilson that Mike Brown ran 35 feet away, turned around & ran full speed at the officer.

Beyond this sounding preposterous for 82 different reasons, the FACTS show that Mike Brown's body was found 35 feet from the SUV.

The FACTS suggest that Mike Brown ran 35 feet, then TURNED AROUND (as 4 eyewitnesses say) and was shot/killed in that very spot. Facts.

Are you tracking with me? Beyond zero eyewitnesses saying that he ran full speed at the fully armed officer, facts show he didn't.

Next, let me expound on what @JoyAnnReid helped me clarify just now. Just speaking about facts here. No conjecture.

Officer Darren Wilson DID NOT write his own police report of the incident, but the report that was filed from the store references 2 reports

These 2 reports, filed by officers who were not actually at the scene of the murder, have not been released. We know little of them.

Also, it is reported that the Department of Justice asked Ferguson PD to do/not to do certain things. I need to speak on that.

Fact. The Ferguson police department DID NOT interview several key witnesses BEFORE the DOJ ever even heard this case existed. A choice.

People continue to say, "let's wait for the facts" but plenty of facts exist. In fact, a lot of facts exist.

What 4 different witnesses saw is not opinion, but fact. W/O talking to each other or knowing each other, they all reported the same thing.

And again, I accept that eye witnesses are unreliable, but it was a clear day on a clear street with no traffic. Furthermore...

The FACTS of the physical evidence match completely with the eyewitnesses that Brown ran, was hit, turned around, surrendered, then executed

I just want us to be clear that we aren't fact-less right now. Yes, we need more facts, but the ones that exist are revealing.

...


Shaun King's Twitter feed, last line seconds ago.

He's continuing to tweet. Worth the follow.

107 replies, 9241 views

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Reply For the "let's wait for the facts" crowd. We already have several facts. (Original post)
MohRokTah Aug 2014 OP
winter is coming Aug 2014 #1
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #2
Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #36
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #39
Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #42
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #45
Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #61
whopis01 Aug 2014 #98
Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #99
whopis01 Aug 2014 #102
Travis_0004 Aug 2014 #103
CBGLuthier Aug 2014 #3
truedelphi Aug 2014 #11
lunasun Aug 2014 #47
pintobean Aug 2014 #12
Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #15
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #20
pintobean Aug 2014 #21
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #22
pintobean Aug 2014 #23
Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #37
pintobean Aug 2014 #63
JEB Aug 2014 #73
pintobean Aug 2014 #74
840high Aug 2014 #54
JEB Aug 2014 #72
nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #82
notgoinback Aug 2014 #93
0rganism Aug 2014 #105
NaturalHigh Aug 2014 #94
valerief Aug 2014 #101
pintobean Aug 2014 #104
pintobean Sep 2014 #107
ColesCountyDem Aug 2014 #19
mythology Aug 2014 #35
ColesCountyDem Aug 2014 #64
nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #80
ColesCountyDem Aug 2014 #95
Logical Aug 2014 #41
BlueCaliDem Aug 2014 #44
FreakinDJ Aug 2014 #52
pintobean Aug 2014 #56
FreakinDJ Aug 2014 #62
BlueCaliDem Aug 2014 #65
FreakinDJ Aug 2014 #68
BlueCaliDem Aug 2014 #66
pintobean Aug 2014 #69
nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #83
pintobean Aug 2014 #86
nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #88
pintobean Aug 2014 #89
Eleanors38 Aug 2014 #90
840high Aug 2014 #55
Bonx Aug 2014 #71
Iggo Aug 2014 #4
TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #24
nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #84
R B Garr Aug 2014 #5
Beaverhausen Aug 2014 #7
R B Garr Aug 2014 #9
WHEN CRABS ROAR Aug 2014 #25
lunasun Aug 2014 #48
R B Garr Aug 2014 #49
WHEN CRABS ROAR Aug 2014 #100
still_one Aug 2014 #30
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #34
R B Garr Aug 2014 #50
GP6971 Aug 2014 #38
gordianot Aug 2014 #6
HooptieWagon Aug 2014 #8
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #10
pintobean Aug 2014 #17
SwankyXomb Aug 2014 #51
gordianot Aug 2014 #67
oldandhappy Aug 2014 #13
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #14
butterfly77 Aug 2014 #16
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #18
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #26
GP6971 Aug 2014 #40
nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #85
Solomon Aug 2014 #91
conservaphobe Aug 2014 #27
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #28
conservaphobe Aug 2014 #29
cwydro Aug 2014 #31
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #32
cwydro Aug 2014 #53
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #58
Kalidurga Aug 2014 #81
nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #87
840high Aug 2014 #59
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #60
Niceguy1 Aug 2014 #75
JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #43
840high Aug 2014 #57
VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #33
cleduc Aug 2014 #79
VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #92
ReRe Aug 2014 #46
malokvale77 Aug 2014 #70
jberryhill Aug 2014 #76
Recursion Aug 2014 #77
cleduc Aug 2014 #78
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #96
cleduc Aug 2014 #97
Calista241 Aug 2014 #106

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 04:16 PM

1. Fact one is not undisputed...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5395074

Granted, I think the police chief is making it up as he goes along, but he can't seem to make up his mind on what Wilson did/did not know.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #1)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 04:19 PM

2. That does not dispute fact 1.

 

The stop was all about jaywalking. That is not in dispute.

The doubt being planted by the corrupt chief of police goes to fact 2 and as presented, fact two makes no conclusions about what may have become known post-fact 1.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #2)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:58 PM

36. Then you might want to rewrite the first fact to omit the reference to the cigarillos

What you have written about them is disputed. Both by chief Jackson's story - and perhaps by implications of the tweets within a half hour which connect Brown to the robbery.

The rest of it makes a pretty strong case, so why muck it up by including something about which there have been conflicting statements?

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #36)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 07:10 PM

39. Fact one is specifically about the first contact and nothing more. eom

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #39)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 07:17 PM

42. Then exlude this:

According to the Police Chief Officer Darren Wilson DID NOT know about the stolen cigars
, which IS disputed.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #42)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 07:25 PM

45. It is NOT disputed.

 

#1, the is PRECISELY what the chief said Friday afternoon.

#2, I am quoting somebody else so I CANNOT change it.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #45)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:31 PM

61. What you said is not actually a quote,

And in reciting the "fact" you actually did change what he said. He said, paraphrased, three things:

1: The stop was unrelated to the robbery, and at the time Wilson decided to make the stop Wilson did not know Brown was a suspect.
2: The chief does not know if Wilson was aware of the robbery call at the time the stop was made.
3: He cannot/is refusing to say anything about what Wilson knew from the moment after he decided to make the stop because it is part of the ongoing investigation.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-police-name-michael-brown

Your statement is not a quote - it is a paraphrase, so you are free to change it (and if you really are relying on it being a quote, you need to use quotation marks, the exact words, and more attribution than you did). In the unqualified way you have written it, you have attributed to a statement that misrepresents what the chief said, because he did not make an unqualified statement that Wilson did not know that Brown was a suspect in the robbery.

What would be an accurate fact is that on Friday afternoon the chief said that, at the moment Wilson made the decision to stop Brown, Wilson did not know that Brown was a suspect.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #61)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 02:15 PM

98. It sure looks like a quote to me...

While you are correct that the OP didn't use quotation marks, it is pretty obvious that the blocked out text is taken from "Shaun King's Twitter feed" - as the OP attributed at their end of the post.

You might disagree with what Shaun King had to say - and Shaun King may have paraphrased, but the OP is directly quoting Shaun King - so it would be inappropriate for the OP to reword what was said there.

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Response to whopis01 (Reply #98)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 02:23 PM

99. Thanks for the clarification -

The conversation would have been much shorter had that been clarified early on.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #99)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 04:50 PM

102. no problem

Sometimes these things slip by - sometimes people choose not to clarify just for the sake of further argument. I don't know which one this was, but it was too painful to watch continue.

And just to clarify my view - I agree with the spirit of the point you were making. The poster might not have paraphrased or mis-characterized what was said, but the person they were quoting certainly did.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #45)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 04:54 PM

103. Even if the cop didint know about the Robbery Mike Brown did

 

I think that its at least possible that Mike Brown could have reacted differently to being stopped by the police 10 minutes after robbing a place than if he had nothing to hide from.

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Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 04:19 PM

3. All those saying wait for facts and taking the police side are speaking

from a perspective I can not and WILL not understand. I would say more but one more hide and I am out for a month. I am sick of all racists whether they are cops or members of DU.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 05:38 PM

11. Understand in total where you are coming from.

One quibble though - the same people that may be considered racists take it further than that, as they totally are fine with police killing a Down's syndrome or otherwise mentally challenged person.

They support the right to remain alive, only for those who are very much in conformist with a white, middle class society, in which the societal member has an IQ of at least 92 on up.

Otherwise, they seem to be reasoning (if you can call it that) the "very different" non-conforming person has to realize that they deserve to be shot!

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #11)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 07:31 PM

47. Pretty much this now^^^ more of the I am OK and got mine ...wait as this becomes an acceptable

action and spews over to include them and their world the outrage will come.

Majority public little cared about gun violence when they thought it would never happen in 'my town or my kids school ,' that only happens in "bad places" and maybe those problems are theirs not ours
It had to bleed over to concern the I am OK crowd and that is unfortunately the same here with police actions out of control across the country.

I believe I wrote about the gun violence and charter schools(2 separate subjects) here when I first joined and even here it was meh or I was not believed written off challenged as if I was lying or I misunderstood or that is unfortunate for your area but rare.

Then It started exploding in to their areas . . .
oh the outrage and it must be real now that it is happening to me and those around here.
Now something must be done collectively because you know it now affects me!
but it becomes too late often when folks let it fester else where and grow
like gun violence and bad charters I don't see police actions going away just getting worse
Many really support their own worlds and are clueless by choice.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 05:39 PM

12. If you refuse to understand

 

there's no point in posting about it. The fact is, we don't really know shit. Waiting for facts is not taking the side of police, it's looking for the truth. It seems that many here at DU are ready to put Wilson in front of a firing squad. I'm a long way from saying he's guilty or innocent.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 05:50 PM

15. Their you go again

 

Acting all reasony using the those patience thingys

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Response to pintobean (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 05:57 PM

20. We do know some very important facts. See OP.

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #20)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:00 PM

21. I saw the OP.

 

We don't know shit. If you could convict on what you think you know, I hope you're never on a jury.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #21)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:16 PM

22. Buh bye. eom

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #22)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:18 PM

23. That tells me everything I need to know.

 

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Response to pintobean (Reply #21)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 07:02 PM

37. There is a difference between known facts -

and a conviction, which might be the ultimate conclusion the jurors reach from the known facts and others. Although I dispute part of the first fact (I don't think Wilson's knowledge - or not - of the robbery is a fact), the rest of the list of 5 are facts.

If you believe they are not, please provide links to any sources which dispute them.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #37)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:38 PM

63. I see.

 

Some guy on twitter makes a list without any links. You dispute one of the "facts" without providing a link. I have to provide links for any of the "facts" that I might dispute.

Fuck that shit.

What I'm seeing on DU is a bunch of fact regulators. Facts that don't support the approved story are attacked as rw talking points. The members that introduce those facts, or question the approved story, are attacked as liars and worse. We saw this in the Zimmerman/Martin case. Many DUers were so misinformed by the time the trial rolled around, they were shocked and pissed off every day of that trial, and were totally blindsided by the verdict. Those of us who followed the facts were not surprised at the verdict, and some correctly predicted it.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #21)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 09:35 PM

73. The shit I know is that Mike Brown is dead without benefit of jury.

 

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Response to JEB (Reply #73)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 09:36 PM

74. No shit.

 

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Response to pintobean (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:16 PM

54. ...^ that

 

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Response to pintobean (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 09:27 PM

72. Nobody I have seen is calling for Wilson to face a firing squad.

 

However it does appear that he was himself a one man firing squad and is now being abetted by his PD.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:53 PM

82. Why do you give the word of one cop, with a history of abusive behavior, equal weight

as that of multiple witnesses?

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Response to pintobean (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 12:24 AM

93. Thank you for acting as a "voice of reason"!

 

Nobody on this blog knows what actually happened before Michael Brown was shot! To me, it is both illogical and unbelievable that a cop would shoot and kill a harmless, unarmed "teenager" for no reason at all. I realize there are a few "bad apples" in every police department, but why would Officer Wilson commit cold-blooded murder ( in broad daylight ) knowing he would surely be tried, convinced and sentenced to prison?


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Response to notgoinback (Reply #93)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 05:01 PM

105. precisely because that's the OPPOSITE of what he knows

"why would Officer Wilson commit cold-blooded murder ( in broad daylight ) knowing he would surely be tried, convinced and sentenced to prison?"

i can't recall a single instance of a cop tried, convicted, and sentenced on a murder charge on duty, much less a white cop for killing a black male. i know of a few cases where cops were indicted and tried for some (imho) rather outrageous acts of lethal force, but every one eventually results in acquittal. Apparently, even self-appointed cops like George Zimmerman can hunt and kill black teenagers without criminal repercussions.

Who prosecutes a cop? Typically the very same organization that works with the police force to obtain convictions of ordinary civilians. From where i sit, i'll just say there seems to be a distinct lack of eagerness on the part of DA's to aggressively prosecute police misconduct, and police departments across the country act like they know this.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 05:02 AM

94. Agreed. The police officer is still legally innocent until a jury decides otherwise.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 04:47 PM

101. Why did I ever take you off Ignore? nt

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Response to valerief (Reply #101)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 04:59 PM

104. Don't know or care.

 

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Response to valerief (Reply #101)

Sun Sep 14, 2014, 12:52 PM

107. So you could rec today's thread? /nt

 

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 05:56 PM

19. So, anyone who ever agrees with the police about anything is, per se, a racist?

How does that work exactly?

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Response to ColesCountyDem (Reply #19)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:54 PM

35. It works well if you don't like actual thinking

 

instead of just emotional reactions. Besides, if you don't have actual argument, calling other people names is a perfectly valid technique to discredit them right?

It does certainly reveal something about one's character though.

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Response to mythology (Reply #35)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:43 PM

64. Since I didn't call anyone a name, I don't know how it works.

Why don't you tell me?

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Response to ColesCountyDem (Reply #19)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:52 PM

80. No, but if you insist on giving them "the benefit of the doubt" despite a clear pattern

of shooting unarmed (disproportionately black) suspects, then one might wonder.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #80)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 06:41 AM

95. No, what I 'insist on' is...

... a reasonable interpretation of known facts. I know it's a bizarre concept, but I just can't help myself.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 07:14 PM

41. Please link to a racist DU post about this and I will alert on it! nt

 

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 07:24 PM

44. + 1000

I believe they just don't like the fact that Mike Brown was a big boy and, to them, intimidating. So they'll do everything they can to ignore the facts as presented by eyewitnesses and choose to give Chief Jon Belmar of the Saint Louis County P.D. (who has adorned his living room wall with a great big Confederate Flag, btw - that's his son, Colin, playing around)

all the benefit of the doubt they'd never bestow on an unarmed Black teenager whom they fear but are too proud to admit they do.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #44)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:15 PM

52. a great big Confederate Flag

 

thanks or sharing

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #52)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:19 PM

56. You don't see anything wrong with that picture?

 

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Response to pintobean (Reply #56)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:36 PM

62. Other then some one photoshopped a colored flag into a black and white picture

 

no pun intended

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #62)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:45 PM

65. Not photoshopped, so you're completely WRONG.

It's a full-color animated GIF of Colin, actually. It's still up on Vine:

https://vine.co/v/huwdVZbL6mz

Apology accepted and you're welcome.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #65)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:57 PM

68. Even the 12 pack of PBR is in color

 

thanks for posting

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Response to pintobean (Reply #56)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:50 PM

66. Hm. You obviously need more proof... Well, here it is.

The full-color animated GIF: https://vine.co/v/huwdVZbL6mz

That one's hard to photoshop, eh?

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #66)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 09:01 PM

69. How do you know

 

who is in the photo and who's home this is? Wasn't this put out by Anonymous? They incorrectly IDed the shooter twice and Chief Jackson's wife once. From what I've seen, they haven't gotten anything right in this case.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #69)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:54 PM

83. If you give all these folks the benefit of the doubt, then why not Mike Brown?

Why do you seemingly assume he must have had it coming?

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #83)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:57 PM

86. I've made no such assumptions.

 

Where in the fuck are you getting that?

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Response to pintobean (Reply #86)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:59 PM

88. Because it seems so hard for you to believe that anyone else did anything wrong.

There's ample evidence Mr. Brown was unjustly executed, yet you pooh-pooh it saying "We don't anything."

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #88)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 11:05 PM

89. Well you're fucking wrong.

 

Stop trying to read my mind, you're no good at it.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #69)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 11:08 PM

90. Let a big fart in the middle of a love scene. nt

 

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:17 PM

55. Care to link to those posts?

 

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 09:14 PM

71. This sums up the thread nicely

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Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 04:24 PM

4. "Wait for the facts" = Wait for the cops to get their story straight.

These people want us to act like we've never been lied to before.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:22 PM

24. Yup, await the official narrative come together and get the focus off.

The idea in part is to just get to a point where the situation is no longer getting enough focus to bring the heat required to ever change anything.
Add in getting the lies straight and impugn the victim and we see that what sounds ever so reasonable is something one also always hears as the fuck job gets rolling over and over again.

Usually from people who seem to have infinite patience with the facts not coming out and the folks that are always working feverishly to make sure they don't.
Isn't it neat how often the wait for the facts people always side with the secret holders that are corrupting data, resisting investigation, spreading get self serving misinformation, flat lying, and withholding those facts they want to wait on to explain how everything is fine?

Notice the boundless energy for the encouraging people to wait piece and the complete lack of give a fuck about the facts getting out portions in scenario after scenario?

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Response to Iggo (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:55 PM

84. +1000000

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Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 04:30 PM

5. Does anyone have info about the shots fired? Were there two sets of shots at

different times? I thought I read that shots were fired, and then shortly after that more shots were fired. Were there more shots fired into Brown as he lay on the ground? I thought I read something like that, but I'm not exactly sure if that's even accurate.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 04:55 PM

7. according to the witness who was on Laurence O'Donnell's show -

one shot when the cop was still in the car, one shot (or more but some missed) at Brown in the back as he ran away, and several shots at Brown when he turned and put his hands up; the shooting continuing as he went down, including what appears to be a shot to the head from close range.

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 05:18 PM

9. omg, that is just chilling.

Those circumstances really bring this into the mindset of the officer and definitely into murder/manslaughter territory. He was gunned down with malice, just gruesome.

Thanks for the info.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #9)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:22 PM

25. PTSD, fear, panic?

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Response to WHEN CRABS ROAR (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 07:36 PM

48. Brown?

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Response to WHEN CRABS ROAR (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 07:55 PM

49. If the peace officer has/had PTSD, fear, panic, he shouldn't have been an officer.

I thought that's what all the psychological testing was for -- to determine fitness for the use of deadly force in those types of situations, etc.

If there are any instances of PTSD or fear/panic in the officer's file, I would think that would be a huge slamdunk lawsuit against the police force for hiring him with those known liabilities that could possibly make him a danger to himself or the public.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #49)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 04:42 PM

100. In the real world, it's not that easy to find,

military service and policing go hand in hand and hiding mental problems isn't that hard to do.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #9)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:28 PM

30. With extreme prejudice with intent to kill

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Response to still_one (Reply #30)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:51 PM

34. And that is the very definition of first degree murder.

 

Murder after deliberation.

That deliberation can take no more than a split second and given the stories of four separate eyewitnesses that match, it was deliberate, thus it is first degree murder.

That carries death or life imprisonment as the penalty.

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Response to still_one (Reply #30)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:00 PM

50. That's why I was curious about the length of time the sequence of shots occurred.

An initial volley and then nothing...could be a hyper reaction to what he could say he perceived as initial danger.

But the continued engagement does show that there was consideration given, and the consideration was to continue shooting even though Brown had been subdued. That's malice. From all indications, the officer intended to kill Brown for reasons other than apprehension of a suspect.

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 07:06 PM

38. Do we know if the first round

fired from inside the SUV hit Mike Brown? I'm just curious as I haven't heard anything.

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Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 04:47 PM

6. I suspect the fact digging has St. Louis-Ferguson establishment and law enforcement scared shitless.

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Response to gordianot (Reply #6)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 04:55 PM

8. Well they should.

 

Not just this case... but a close look into how that PD operated is going to uncover a whole shitload of criminal activity and cover-ups by the police.

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Response to gordianot (Reply #6)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 05:26 PM

10. Since the police chief apparently has neo-confederate leanings, no surprise there.

 

The chief of police has the Battle Flag of the Army of Tennessee on his wall at home. That's neo-confederate shit right there.

I would not be surprised if eventually the FBI reveals he's affiliated with some white supremacist organization or other.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 05:54 PM

17. The pic released by Anonymous?

 

They misidentified the shooter twice, and misidentified the chief's wife. I have no confidence that that pic isn't photoshopped, or that that is actually the chief's home, or his son.

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Response to gordianot (Reply #6)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:11 PM

51. That may be why all the St Louis County websites are still offline

Can't have Anonymous or reporters digging up actual information.

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Response to SwankyXomb (Reply #51)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:56 PM

67. The law of un intended consequences has caught up.

First impressions are lasting impressions and those who want to contain the story do not have much time. At the same time you cannot throw your own under the bus. In the long run officer Wilson will go under the bus to support a really rotten system. Fact is he shot a large unarmed kid dead in the street in front of a multitude of witnesses.

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Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 05:46 PM

13. Thank you. Very Clear!!

I like your statement of facts.

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Response to oldandhappy (Reply #13)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 05:48 PM

14. Not mine, Shaun King's.

 

Follow the link to follow him on Twitter. He's been brilliant through this.

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Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 05:52 PM

16. Didn't this same officer..

 

after the shooting proceed to go to McDonalds and then begin threatening reporters..

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Response to butterfly77 (Reply #16)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 05:55 PM

18. I think it was a different officer in that video.

 

I immediately thought it was Darren Wilson when I saw the pictures, but then I found the video and I don't think it was the same guy. Also, I think the fascist cop in the McDonald's was St. Louis County, not Ferguson PD. At least it looked like he was wearing a St. Louis County shoulder patch on his camo gear.

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Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:22 PM

26. Here's where you are horribly flawed....

 

Last edited Sun Aug 17, 2014, 07:41 PM - Edit history (1)

All of the 4 eye witnesses are black.

"Wait for the facts" means WHITE people have to decide what happened. (And you know how they disagree on almost everything)

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #26)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 07:12 PM

40. I don't doubt that at all. n/t

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #26)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:57 PM

85. Exactly! You nailed it.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #26)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 11:09 PM

91. +1000

It makes me sick, especially when they eat their cake andhave it too . Notice how they believe 100% Brown's friend on the issue of took the cigars, but totally discount his testimony that Brown was shot as he was surrendering. Makes me sick Fuckers.

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Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:23 PM

27. Folks like that are on the wrong side of history.

 

And although they hide behind objectivity and caution, we can see right through them.

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Response to conservaphobe (Reply #27)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:25 PM

28. I think what they try to say is "let's wait for all the evidence" which is STUPID.

 

You'll never have "all the evidence".

You start with the evidence you have.

With the evidence we currently have, the bullshit story being passed off as coming from friends and family of Darren Wilson does not hold water.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #28)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:26 PM

29. +1

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #28)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:32 PM

31. Lol, your reply here reminds me of good old Donald Rumsfeld...

"You go to war with the army you have."

Well done sir!

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Response to cwydro (Reply #31)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:47 PM

32. I need precisely no more evidence than what we have...

 

to demonstrate the bullshit story being sold as coming from friends and family of Darren Wilson cannot possibly be true. It would defy the laws of physics for the bullshit story to be true.

And that's the whole point.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:15 PM

53. Hope you are never on anyone's jury in this country.

Because we know nothing at this point.

I haven't heard any stories that make sense.

Stories I have heard:

One - Brown was shot in the back. From the videos I can see no back wounds.

Two - The different stories: Brown was running away. Then he was on his knees. Then he was shot five times with his hands up. I think his hands would have come down some time before five shots. He was shot four, five...I've heard ten times.

Three - Brown was a "gentle giant." The nasty shoving episode of him toward a much smaller man proves otherwise.

Eyewitnesses are notoriously wrong. Google it. Many studies on that particular fact.

I prefer to hear the whole story.

I totally think these Ferguson cops are goons...maybe not all of them, but we've seen enough to know that they are not the cream of any crop. The cops have handled this beyond wrong on every level. No one is saying the cop is innocent. Just I choose not to say he is guilty. BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW.

I'm not going to rush to judgment yet.



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Response to cwydro (Reply #53)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:21 PM

58. I hope you never serve on a jury in this country. eom

 

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Response to cwydro (Reply #53)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:52 PM

81. You wouldn't see back wounds if he was shot in the back

probably not any blood on the back either. If he was shot facing the officer you would see a large back wound and blood on the back of his shirt. Bullets tend to make small entry wounds and large exit wounds.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #81)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:57 PM

87. That too. n/t

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:22 PM

59. I hope you're never on a jury.

 

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Response to 840high (Reply #59)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:24 PM

60. The feeling is reciprocated. eom

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:23 PM

75. you cant convict

On whatb has been made public.....its not enough

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #28)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 07:23 PM

43. +2

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Response to conservaphobe (Reply #27)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:20 PM

57. I don't see them that

 

way. Caution is not bad.

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Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:47 PM

33. All respect to you. With regard to #1, I'm almost certain now that Brown didn't steal anything, not

 

cigars, not 'rellos,' not Swisher Sweets. He paid for what he obtained and his money was accepted by the clerk behind the counter.

So if Brown, in turn, 'assaulted' anyone, he was doing it to defend himself against false imprisonment or detainder in that store.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025400413

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Response to VanGoghRocks (Reply #33)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:44 PM

79. Then why did Johnson, the guy who was with Brown in that store

 

and with him during the shooting, tell the police Brown stole stuff from that store?

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Response to cleduc (Reply #79)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 11:13 PM

92. Hmm, well, none of us have heard what Mr. Johnson actually has to say. We have

 

heard what Mr. Johnson's attorney says Mr. Johnson has said. That aside, Mr. Brown paid for the merchandise, not Mr. Johnson. So it may be that Johnson is confused by the question.

Are you implying that currency was not exchanged by Mr. Brown for some good in that video?

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Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 07:30 PM

46. K&R

Thanks for finding this and linking us to the tweets of Shaun King, MohRokTah!

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Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 09:07 PM

70. Yes, and if I may go off on a little rant...

Police need to live in the communities they police.

The official report will be full of spin and void of facts.

This is becoming way to familiar.

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Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:27 PM

76. can't run very fast in those sandals anyway

 


His footwear and girth suggest "run fast" was not on the menu.

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Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:37 PM

77. Turning around was a big problem in Iraq

i.e., "is that guy turning around to surrender or shoot me?"

I don't buy for a second that Brown charged the officer he had just been fleeing, but I would believe that the turn was the key instant here.

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Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:39 PM

78. MohRokTah said 'For the "let's wait for the facts" crowd. We already have several facts.'

 

Next, let me expound on what @JoyAnnReid helped me clarify just now. Just speaking about facts here. No conjecture.

Officer Darren Wilson DID NOT write his own police report of the incident, but the report that was filed from the store references 2 reports

These 2 reports, filed by officers who were not actually at the scene of the murder, have not been released. We know little of them.


Here's a fact you missed: The St Louis County Police took over the investigation of the shooting at the request of the Ferguson Police shortly after the shooting. Therefore, there will be no Darren Wilson police report forthcoming from the Ferguson police. In fact, Wilson may only provide the St Louis County Police with a statement. And none of that is likely to be forthcoming anytime soon until the investigation is completed and maybe not until the Grand Jury has done it's business.

The 2 reports we got relate to the robbery - distinct from the subsequent shooting.

Whining about that isn't going to change the process.

MohRokTah also said
1. According to the Police Chief Officer Darren Wilson DID NOT know about the stolen cigars & all agree the stop was just about jaywalking.


But it's also a fact that Chief Jackson has subsequently said that Wilson knew of the robbery, saw the stolen cigars with Brown after he'd stopped him for jaywalking and joined the dots that Brown may have stolen them before the exchange between them completed. That's a key thing because if true, it would explain officer Wilson backing up up his cruiser and reengaging with Brown and why an altercation between them might have started.

MohRokTah also said
Beyond this sounding preposterous for 82 different reasons, the FACTS show that Mike Brown's body was found 35 feet from the SUV.

The FACTS suggest that Mike Brown ran 35 feet, then TURNED AROUND (as 4 eyewitnesses say) and was shot/killed in that very spot. Facts.

Are you tracking with me? Beyond zero eyewitnesses saying that he ran full speed at the fully armed officer, facts show he didn't.


"Beyond zero eyewitnesses saying that he ran full speed at the fully armed officer" ?

Really? I don't know about "full speed" but :

someone is contradicting the 4 witnesses on that audio

I wasn't there so I don't know which account is accurate. I'm trying to be objective.

And this:
http://danaloeschradio.com/alleged-friend-of-officer-darren-wilson-offers-his-side/
That's a little more murky because it's from a 3rd party via a right wing radio host who I do not care for. But I mention it because that may well be the position of the officer backed up by the audio above. It also alleges Brown turned and came at Wilson before he was fatally shot.

And the 35 feet may be how far Brown wound up away from the cruiser. It doesn't mean he could not have got 50 feet and turned around and come back. And the officer was allegedly in pursuit so they may have been only a few feet apart when the fatal and final shots rang out.

We don't have the ballistics and autopsy yet.

There's more to learn before passing judgement. That's about the only fact I can say heartily here.

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Response to cleduc (Reply #78)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 06:43 AM

96. Autopsy shows, it's murder in the first degree.

 

Also, your own post shows you failed to read my post. I didn't say anything. Shaun King did.

This makes your entire post moot.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #96)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:03 AM

97. It does?

 

It makes the post directed to Shaun King whose words you posted.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0
“This one here looks like his head was bent downward,” he said, indicating the wound at the very top of Mr. Brown’s head. “It can be because he’s giving up, or because he’s charging forward at the officer.”
...
He stressed that his examination was not to determine whether the shooting was justified.

“Right now there is too little information to forensically reconstruct the shooting.”

No matter what conclusions can be drawn from Dr. Baden’s work, Mr. Brown’s death remains marked by shifting and contradictory accounts more than a week after it occurred.



Where you you get "Autopsy shows, it's murder in the first degree." from the above?

Through more embracing of jumping to conclusions when the guy who did the autopsy could not?


On fatal wounds:
"It can be because he’s giving up" = suggests murder
There are at least four accounts he was murdered.

"or because he’s charging forward at the officer." = suggests self defense
There are at least two accounts I've seen suggesting he charged the officer - from right wing sources so I have suspicions but I haven't seen them thoroughly scuttled.

Therefore, I haven't seen anyone credibly make your claim "Autopsy shows, it's murder" yet

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Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 06:01 PM

106. I have a feeling we're all going to be disappointed with the outcome here. N/t

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