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Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:40 AM

 

Was Michael Brown surrendering to, or attacking, Officer Wilson?

The autopsy report -- privately done and commissioned by the Brown family -- indicates that Michael was either surrendering or charging the officer. The officer says he was charging. The witnesses say he was shot in the back (proven not to be true).

I think Brown was on his knees and executed.

“This one here looks like his head was bent downward,” he said, indicating the wound at the very top of Mr. Brown’s head. “It can be because he’s giving up, or because he’s charging forward at the officer.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html

47 replies, 5358 views

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Reply Was Michael Brown surrendering to, or attacking, Officer Wilson? (Original post)
Michigander_Life Aug 2014 OP
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #1
gollygee Aug 2014 #4
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #9
csziggy Aug 2014 #43
Michigander_Life Aug 2014 #19
NOLALady Aug 2014 #27
pipoman Aug 2014 #2
Michigander_Life Aug 2014 #3
pipoman Aug 2014 #8
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #11
pipoman Aug 2014 #13
Oilwellian Aug 2014 #35
avebury Aug 2014 #42
BlueCaliDem Aug 2014 #12
pipoman Aug 2014 #15
BlueCaliDem Aug 2014 #17
SaltyBro Aug 2014 #5
madokie Aug 2014 #7
Heidi Aug 2014 #10
BlueCaliDem Aug 2014 #14
VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #46
madokie Aug 2014 #6
BlueCaliDem Aug 2014 #16
madokie Aug 2014 #18
BlueCaliDem Aug 2014 #34
Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #22
BlueCaliDem Aug 2014 #33
Lonusca Aug 2014 #24
Oilwellian Aug 2014 #36
csziggy Aug 2014 #45
Lonusca Aug 2014 #47
BklnDem75 Aug 2014 #20
ladjf Aug 2014 #21
BuelahWitch Aug 2014 #23
BklnDem75 Aug 2014 #25
Punkingal Aug 2014 #26
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #30
Punkingal Aug 2014 #31
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #28
JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #32
smokey nj Aug 2014 #38
Iggo Aug 2014 #29
wandy Aug 2014 #37
MohRokTah Aug 2014 #39
wandy Aug 2014 #40
Demsrule86 Aug 2014 #41
sub.theory Aug 2014 #44

Response to Michigander_Life (Original post)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:43 AM

1. Six foot eight.

 

If he was charging, he was intending to head but the cop in the belly like a bull.

No way was he charging.

The cop executed him, gangland style.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:46 AM

4. I can't imagine any person charging someone head first like a bull

How does that work? Do people do that when faced with a person with a gun? That doesn't even make sense. People are assuming he behaved like an animal rather than a human being, and that assumption is as telling as anything.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:51 AM

9. Occam's Razor.

 

The simplest answer is the shot to the top of his head was the final shot fired and it was fired as he was going down. He was most likely already dead when that shot was fired, probably from the shot to the eye.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #9)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 12:49 PM

43. Dr. Baden's assistant was on Ronan Farrow's show

He said the shot to the eye was probably survivable if Brown had gotten treatment. That shot hit the eye socket, went down and out of the jaw, then hit the chest. The final shot to the top of the head was fatal, according to the assistant.

Since all the shots were apparently from the front, I think Brown turned, put his hands up, was hit in the arm as he surrendered, then was hit with the final two shots to the head, perhaps as he bowed his head either in surrender or as he was going into shock.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:06 AM

19. No one would ever do that under ANY circumstances

 

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Response to gollygee (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 09:14 AM

27. I can't imagine any black person

charging a policeman.

We are expected to believe that he charged an armed policeman after he tried to run away, fleeing for his life.

Not buying it in any way shape or form!

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Response to Michigander_Life (Original post)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:43 AM

2. Yet to my knowledge, not a single witness stated anything even remotely like:

 

I think Brown was on his knees and executed.

so where are you getting this?

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Response to pipoman (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:44 AM

3. He was shot in the top of the head..

 

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Response to Michigander_Life (Reply #3)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:50 AM

8. There are several ways that can happen

 

Without "on his knees and executed", and since not a single witness said anything remotely like this, it seems pretty far fetched.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:51 AM

11. Most likely, as he was going down.

 

Most likely, the shot to the top of the head was the final shot fired.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #11)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:53 AM

13. I agree, that is far more likely...

 

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Response to Michigander_Life (Reply #3)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 10:04 AM

35. Yes, I'm sure he was charging the cop after being shot in the eye

Wilson shot and killed an unarmed black teenager, in the middle of the day, in the middle of the street. Then he ran away in his cruiser and tainted the crime scene.

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Response to Michigander_Life (Reply #3)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 12:44 PM

42. And according to what Brown family attorneys

were saying the 2 head shots were back to front. There is a clip of it on CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

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Response to pipoman (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:52 AM

12. But there are witnesses who claim that Officer Wilson shot Mike Brown when he was already down.

I've posted this video, broadcast by CNN, a few times already on this site where a man, video-taping the post-shooting scene, claims to have heard that people who had witnessed the shooting were all saying that "they shot him {Mike Brown} some more while he was on the ground".

You can see the GRAPHIC amateur video in my post here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=873473

That would, of course, explain how Michael Brown got a bullet at the top of his head being that he was much taller than Officer Wilson.

This would suggest that this was an extrajudicial execution by Officer Wilson.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:55 AM

15. Autopsy results should give a finite number of possible scenarios. ..

 

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Response to pipoman (Reply #15)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:57 AM

17. Okay. eom

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Response to Michigander_Life (Original post)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:47 AM

5. He was executed

just for the color of his skin.

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Response to SaltyBro (Reply #5)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:50 AM

7. Thats the important part right there

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Response to madokie (Reply #7)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:51 AM

10. Yep, agreed.

Good morning, friend!

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Response to madokie (Reply #7)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:55 AM

14. Yes. And an undisputable fact. The excessive force used by Officer Wilson

on an unarmed young Black man underscores that this was an extrajudicial execution. It appears to be open season on Blacks across the country and it's a very disturbing and escalating trend.

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Response to SaltyBro (Reply #5)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 01:02 PM

46. And for not showing the requisite degree of deference.

 

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Response to Michigander_Life (Original post)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:49 AM

6. It also could be because he was falling forward after being shot

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Response to madokie (Reply #6)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:56 AM

16. Witnesses say that after Mike Brown was already down, the cop "shot him some more".

You can hear it on the amateur video in one of my posts here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=873473

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #16)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:06 AM

18. Hopefully at some point we will know what happened

a few things we know happened that were wrong, shot 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6

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Response to madokie (Reply #18)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 09:49 AM

34. Exactly!

There was zero reason for the police officer to draw his gun with lethal intent. Zero. First, Mike Brown was unarmed. Second, he was at least twenty feet away from Officer Wilson and posed no threat, and third, according to eye-witness accounts, he was surrendering, with hands up. Now, either Officer Wilson is ignorant of the universal sign of surrender or he just chose to ignore it.

Either way, this was clearly an extrajudicial execution perpetrated by Officer Wilson, and no amount of vigorous excusing his over-the-top behavior by some on this site is going to change it. They certainly won't change my mind on at least that point.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #16)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:45 AM

22. What the voices on the tape say

is that "they say" - the voices you hear in the tape are both people who were not witnesses, who are reporting what they have heard as the crowd gathered. I have not heard any actual witness to the shooting say that.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #22)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 09:44 AM

33. Okay. eom

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #16)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:52 AM

24. If he was shot while down

one would expect wounds in the back.

It sounds like all shots came from the front before he fell prone to the pavement. Which means the hands up and shot scenario becomes more likely

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Response to Lonusca (Reply #24)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 10:08 AM

36. He could have been shot in the top of the head

after he was laying on the ground. That makes the most sense.

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #36)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 12:53 PM

45. Dr. Baden's assistant said the final shot went in the top of the head

And out the right eye - how can that happen with someone standing or even kneeling? Maybe if Brown had dropped to his hands and knees? The other head shot hit him in the left eye, exited the jaw, then went into the chest.

This is from his interview on the Ronan Farrow show in MSNBC today - no link.

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #36)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 02:24 PM

47. How exactly would that work?

He was shot in the top of the head, basically 90 degree would out the chin. How does that happen when he is on the ground? Even from a distance that's tough to prove.

Along with the arm wounds, it sounds like he was shot before he hit pavement. On knees with hands up (head tilted to shooter, maybe shot in head while going down) is my guess.

Another question for anyone - the picture of Brown laying in the street. Is the officer's car on his head side or his feet side?

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Response to Michigander_Life (Original post)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:10 AM

20. If he was charging, it means he was at a distance

Then again, the only claim of Michael Brown charging Wilson comes from a still unnamed witness reported by Tucker Carlson's Daily Caller.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/17/unwitting-witness-pokes-holes-in-michael-brown-shooting-story/

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Response to BklnDem75 (Reply #20)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:38 AM

21. In the unlikely event that Brown was "charging" Wilson, all Wilson had to

do was to step back into the car, shut the door and call for backup.

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Response to BklnDem75 (Reply #20)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:48 AM

23. How easy is it to "charge" someone after you've been shot in the eye?

Maybe those Daily Caller people think Mike Brown had super powers.

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Response to BuelahWitch (Reply #23)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 09:02 AM

25. Not just any charge either...

With the bullet to the top of the head, they'd expect us to believe it was a blind bull charge.

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Response to Michigander_Life (Original post)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 09:08 AM

26. You have two threads questioning Michael Brown's actions....

Why is that?

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Response to Punkingal (Reply #26)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 09:18 AM

30. I think it's pretty clear why.

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #30)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 09:21 AM

31. Of course it is....

I was just trying to be nice.

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Response to Michigander_Life (Original post)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 09:15 AM

28. You're really invested in making Mike Brown the aggressor here, aren't you?

 

I think I understand what's going on.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #28)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 09:35 AM

32. +1000

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #28)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 10:47 AM

38. And sadly, not the only one.

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Response to Michigander_Life (Original post)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 09:16 AM

29. Witnesses say he was surrendering.

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Response to Michigander_Life (Original post)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 10:33 AM

37. Just a quick question. In the police report does it in fact indicate that.........

The officer says he was charging.


This could make considerable difference. In the actual police report the officer may have believed he was being 'charged'.

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Response to wandy (Reply #37)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 10:50 AM

39. There is no police report.

 

There is no known report filed by Darren Wilson.

The only report released by the Ferguson Police for the FOIA requests was the robbery report.

We can only assume there is no police report about this incident in the Ferguson PD.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #39)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:04 AM

40. Oh, I see. I was just wondering if this was taken form something.......

Officer Wilson's friend(s) confided to a RW outlet(s) in almost the exact wording something that probably should not be spoken of outside of a police station or lawyers office at this time.

Actually I'm just interested in how RW disinformation is created and spread. Also how much damage that misinformation causes.

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Response to wandy (Reply #37)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 12:41 PM

41. I don't believe that

He was shot six times...the bullet wound with the head down was the last shot....no way he was charging...they let him lie there in the street like a dead dog...made no attempt to help him...he was executed.

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Response to Michigander_Life (Original post)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 12:50 PM

44. The million dollar question

Well, this is of course the critical question. If he was attacking or threatening the officer then the shooting might be justifiable, if heavy handed. Otherwise, it would be criminal and murder charges are deserved. No one except those who were there knows what really happened at this point, and unfortunately everyone seems to be giving a different story. This one is going to hinge on the physical evidence.

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