What would happen if all the police just left?

[leftyladyfrommo]

I keep thinking that the police are just making things worse in Ferguson. I'm from KC so this whole thing is a pretty big issue here.

If the police just picked up and left would everyone just go home?

Or would the looters go crazy?

[treestar]

1. Hard to say, but in that event

You can be sure they would be blamed for not being there.

[Lee-Lee]

2. If word got out it was a free-for-all

There would be a lot of opportunists from outside who came in to loot and steal.

The citizens would be left to fend for themselves, and what would result is a big question mark.

[atreides1]

3. I have an idea

Pull back St. Louis County PD and Ferguson PD...leave street control to the State Troopers.

[B2G]

4. I thought they did that 2 days ago

But the violence continued, so Nixon brought in the Guard.

[leftyladyfrommo]

5. Can the governor fire the police force?

They obviously have been doing a horrible job for years.

That kind of unrest doesn't just appear overnight. They need to put in a whole new police force - 70% black. And make sure they are really good, well trained police officers.

When we have something happen here in KC the city responds immediately. We have a great black mayor and a great black chief of police. And there are other really respected people here that also respond to make sure that everyone is heard, that the police do what they are supposed to do and do it right. If there is a march of some kind the mayor and Alvin Brooks are right there marching along.

But I think KC is a lot better integrated than St. Louis may be. Shoot, my neighborhood has every kind of person you could think of living here. We have white families, black families, Muslim families, Asian families.

And I think our police officers are really well trained. Considering the size of the city we have very few incidents like what happened in Ferguson. We have a lot of gang related violence here but mostly those guys just shoot each other.

[jeff47]

8. The people can.

Unfortunately, turnout in the last Ferguson election was 12%.

[Amonester]

11. I would like to know the percentage of people who don't vote because...

they don't know what to do, where to register, what they must have, and where they must show up to actually cast their


VOTE

[jeff47]

12. Ferguson is a particularly bad place

in that the local election happens on a day that doesn't correspond with any other election. Makes it much less likely that people will realize it's election day.

And that 12% is registered voters - so they at least knew how to register.

However, turnout has been abysmal for years, and there's no reason for the local politicians to give a damn about anyone beyond the 12% that vote.

[Amonester]

13. It looks like NOW they have a reason...

Of course, it's way too late...

Bunch of idiots (in the eyes of the rest of the world), these local pols (I suppose, corrupt to the core also, like the rest of them).

[jeff47]

17. For the moment, the politicians still don't have a reason

'cause they're still expecting abysmal turnout in April 2016 - the next local election in Ferguson.

If the people in Ferguson actually show up and vote, then the people who win in 2016 will give a damn.

[Amonester]

21. These local pols manage public service like global pols manage climate change!

Bunch of idiots. No, bunch of corrupt idiots.

[Hoyt]

26. What's sad is they could make a big change this November.

Last week, some group set up a voter registration booth near the protestors.

Probably don't have a lot of time to register at this point.

[Amonester]

27. That, and also the following question:

Who *would* they have the *choice* to vote for?

[leftyladyfrommo]

14. People don't vote because they don't feel like their votes matter.

And in that environment their votes probably don't matter.

I'm not sure anyone's vote matters any more. We just all bow to the big corporation gods who control everything.

[jeff47]

16. Take a look at turnout over the decades

"We just all bow to the big corporation gods" is relatively new. It arose when non-presidential primary turnout dropped into the 20s. Abysmal turnout made "the big corporation gods" the only relevant people - they all bothered to vote. The vast majority didn't.

[leftyladyfrommo]

18. Have you seen the report that was just out - somewhere

either here or elsewhere on the net that states that individuals have no control of anything anymore. It's all controlled by big, powerful corporations.

Maybe we never have had and just didn't realize it.

[jeff47]

23. Yes, I've seen it, and you're utterly misrepresenting it.

The report measured public opinion versus policy. And public opinion didn't matter for policy. Because people don't bother voting.

80-someodd % wanted stronger gun control laws after Newtown. But only 40-someodd % bothered to vote in 2010. Meaning the 20% who didn't want stronger gun control laws got to pick who won that election, and thus got to dictate policy after the shooting.

[HooptieWagon]

6. The police haven't been targeting looters...

... they've been targeting protestors and journalists.
A far better solution would have been for cops to simply patrol/guard businesses to protect them from looting, and to leave the protestors and journalists alone. If they want to block the street, so what? It's their community. The journalists are mainly there to report on the massive police overreaction. If there's no police oppression to report, the reporters will leave, the protestors will eventually go home, and things will calm down. It's the police violence that's provoking and perpetuating the problem.

[jeff47]

7. Probably a repeat of LA after the Rodney King verdict

There was large-scale rioting, largely due to the perception that the police were nowhere to be found - Chief Gates had deliberately decided to pull all the police back. Meanwhile Mayor Bradley incited the crowd by extorting them to fight. That started a small riot, which the police did not respond to. That then led to a whole lot of opportunists deciding it was time to pick up some free stuff. The rioting lasted six days, and eventually required the National Guard to come in and lock down the city.

Instead of all the police leaving, just have the police respond to actual looting and similar crimes instead of attempting to disperse the protesters. The continued presence should keep the situation from getting too out-of-hand, yet not attacking the protesters should cut down on the violent response to the police.

[VanGoghRocks]

22. Angeleno here. Actually, it was regular troops from the U.S. Army (7th Div.) and

U.S. Marines (1st Marine Div.) who 'restored order,' not the CA National Guard (except insofar as those NatGuard troops were federalized).

I also disagree with your take: "There was large-scale rioting, largely due to the perception that the police were nowhere to be found."

Um, yeah, there was large-scale rioting, but largely due to the perception that the social contract was a dead letter as, indeed, it was and to a large extent still is. (Adult unemployment rate in Watts last year checks in at a startling 40%.)

[jeff47]

25. Also an Angeleno here.

Well, I was at the time. Moved in the late 90s.

There were two kinds of riots. The first ones were the "social contract" riots you describe. When the police did not respond at all to those riots, "hey let's get free stuff" riots started in addition to the "social contract" riots.

Which is why there was a lot of rioting in places that were not nearly as economically or politically disadvantaged. Cerritos wasn't nearly as bad off as Watts, for example. But after the political riots got no response, looting started there.

[Lars39]

9. I've been wondering if there is a building big enough,

that is not under police control, where people could meet to strategize for the immediate and longterm. Just word of mouth to get there, no twitter or Facebook.
They need to be able to meet and think without police presence or LRAD going off.

[NightWatcher]

10. You mean instead of lining up at opposite sides of the street and squeezing the crowd?

Yeah, I was wondering what would happen if they dropped back into a prevent defense a few more blocks away from the scene of the protest. There were several preachers that were on the ground keeping the crowds pretty calm....then the cops would squeeze again.

Did anyone notice that it seemed like the cops were becoming aggressive at the tops of the hour? The first big conflict when lines of riot cops, 10P, then at 11P they started firing the first volleys of tear gas, then again at 12A local time.

[VanGoghRocks]

24. It's the old 'Berkeley Shuffle' (what the kids today call 'kettling').

[pinboy3niner]

15. Doesn't work

Gunshots, break-ins, injured people on the street require a response.

Cpt. Johnson tried to minimize police presence, but that didn't work for long.

[Rex]

19. It would make the authoritarians scream like children

oh wait..they already are.

[Populist_Prole]

32. Kind of what I was thinking

The authoritarians would fear a further emboldened part of the populous getting too uppity in the future.

[Rex]

33. It would send the wrong message...that being that the authorities were WRONG.

And you know the one main weakness off all authoritarians is that they are NEVER wrong. You can spot them pretty easy on DU and elsewhere on the WWW.

[VanGoghRocks]

20. What if they gave a war and no one came?

[951-Riverside]

28. The police have made that impossible now

They've been pushing people's buttons every day for the past week, their whole tactic is the corner the town and force a violent response.

Last night they allowed the New Black Panthers and others to shove protesters including the media and chase protesters around while screaming at them with bullhorns, the excuse was "stay on the sidewalk ...for your own safety" but in reality it was another ploy to get people fired up and force a violent reaction.

The police is not interested in a peaceful resolution by any stretch and don't worry the tactics used in Ferguson will be coming to a protest near you.

"Pick up that can"

[JEB]

29. Take the arms and gear away from the police

and give it to the protesters.

[BillZBubb]

30. The police "just leaving" wouldn't be a good idea.

There are criminals in every population who would quickly take advantage of that situation.

What the police should do is keep a low profile. No more heavy equipment, no more tear gas, no more orders to disperse. Allow the protesters to protest until they destroy property or commit violence. Then the police should deal only with those who have committed that crime.

They need to stop using any single, isolated action as an excuse to assault all the protesters.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

31. It happened in Ukraine.

You had the police bearing down on the protesters in Maidan. Then Yanukovych decided to leave the country, the police had no one to take orders from, so they simply went home.

[AngryAmish]

34. Dunkin Donuts stock would tank?