"I'm a cop. If you don't want to get hurt, don't challenge me."

[MuttLikeMe]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/?wpmm=AG0003360


by Sunil Dutta

Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?

[maxrandb]

1. and they wonder

why people hate pricks like this

[MuttLikeMe]

9. For real

[randys1]

2. It is time we dismantle every police dept in America and replace them

with community folks, trained in diplomacy and talking first, violence second.

If we allow these cops to continue this way, we can blame ourselves only.

[joeglow3]

25. It is clear you did not read the article

He advocated for exactly what you did in regards to diplomacy first.

[randys1]

33. Dismantle ALL police depts, start over...anything less is insane

[Fantastic Anarchist]

62. I'm totally for your suggestion.

Community-based work, policing, health-care, housing, etc.

Count me in!

[Cooley Hurd]

3. Hogwash.

http://www.kpho.com/story/26314884/habersham-county-will-not-pay-medical-bills-for-baby-injured-in-raid
What was Bounkham Phonesavanh doing wrong?

[joeybee12]

4. Yeah, and when I scream "Get the fuck outta the street" when you're jaywalking...

Because, hey, I'm just politely pointing out that you're commiting the most heinous crime in the history of mankind....


BTW, why can't I say you're a racist pig when this guy obviously is?

[upaloopa]

5. The cops I saw in Ferguson last night on MSNBC

caused their own trouble last night. First they told people they had to keep moving. That was the wrong thing to do. I think it was an attempt to reduce the number of protesters. People get tired they have to stop and rest. Then the cops show up in large numbers at both ends of a blocked off street. The protesters were trapped in the middle. The press was kept in a press area. The situation was ramped up by police presence. The night was peaceful until the large show of force by the police.

[gratuitous]

14. It's called kettling

Basically, it traps a crowd into a confined space. Ostensibly, it makes the mass of humanity easier to manage, but in real life with living human beings, it creates a situation ripe for confrontation and violence. One side is heavily armed, the other isn't. The results are easily predictable.

As for the "advice" in the original post, I'd ask Mr. Dutta just what outrage those UC Davis students were perpetrating that caused John Pike to pepper spray them like a retiree fogging his prize roses. Of course, Mr. Pike won a $38,000 award for his anxiety and depression from macing those bound, kneeling students, so victory, I guess.

[politicat]

36. it wasn't even good kettling. This PD has shown itself to be inept at everything they do.

I don't like kettling -- I think it's a terrible crowd control method that doesn't accomplish the long-term goal and makes the immediate and near-term situation worse. But when done properly, it doesn't kill and doesn't require chemical containments.

They're trying to kettle with chemicals rather than barriers and bodies. When one's eyes are burning, or worse, when there's actual damage to the eyes and mucosa, people will do anything to make it stop, including breaking into a building where there might be water. By handling this so badly, they're causing the problems. (And let's not even get into the LRAD that was making the crowd more fractious. They calmed every time it was turned off. Even a first year Psych 101 student can recognize that stimulus pattern.)

But expecting competence from this crew of clowns is just expecting too much.

Last night's BS "see what we found and this is why you journos are going to get the same treatment as everyone else" PC was the final straw for me, when they lost any benefit of doubt. A single Colt 45 Molotov (that anyone could have made, since Colt bottles are not exactly rare), 4 shrink-wrapped 6 packs of D cell batteries and a couple phones? I'm supposed to look at these as instruments of Chaos? More like the random contents of the trunk of a couple of cop cars.

[MohRokTah]

6. The author isn't African American.

Follow everything the author says while black, and you still stand a damned good chance of ending up dead.

[rustydog]

18. You got that right

there is a phrase for reasonable suspicion where I work:
BIK: Black in Kirkland...gotta be guilty of something.

[Xipe Totec]

7. It's not easy being a cop

[frylock]

8. and when i deliberately give you conflicting commands, then brace yourself

[rustydog]

20. That is one very important point I stress in the non-violent intervention courses I instruct

You see video on "cops" almost weekly of multiple officers screaming at the cornered suspect:

"GET DOWN!" "Don't MOVE!!!" "SHOW ME YOUR HANDS!" "I SAID DON'T FUCKING MOVE!"
"STAY WHERE YOU ARE!" "GET OUT OF THE CAR!" "ROLL OVER!" "STAY ON YOUR STOMACH!"
"I SAID: DON'T FUCKING MOVE!'

How are you going to be able to successfully comply in a situation like that? If you are complying and the officer is STILL using pain-compliance and you pull back due to the pain, what happens next?

[arcane1]

29. If you pull back due to the pain, now you're "resisting" and the real pain starts!

[tblue37]

46. Someone posted this video yesterday or the day before:

"Sadistic cop keeps tazering unresponsive man"

http://videosift.com/video/Sadistic-cop-keeps-tazering-unresponsive-man

[Fantastic Anarchist]

65. Holy fuck ....

Wow, just fucking wow.

[daleanime]

10. Submit, Submit, Submit....

this asshole should be forced to endure those "few" minutes a handful of times every day for the rest of his life. Some times once a day. Some times six or more. So than any time he sees a uniform he knows that he may have to play this life or death game for just a "few" minutes, and if he doesn't play well enough he's dead.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

11. but most importantly, don't be black. nt

[Rex]

13. Yeah he was a cop in the LAPD and that is exactly why the WH is now looking

into separating cops from their military toys. If they can only act like 2 year olds, then they don't get the lethal toys...and now we hear this PIG cry about it!

Hey PIG...

[LordGlenconner]

16. Sympathy factor from me: 0.0

The author of this quite frankly sounds like an asshole. Or, more to the point, a stereotypical asshole cop.

[Rex]

17. Same here...the only silverlining is he is not a cop anymore

so therefore cannot harass minorities while hiding behind his shield.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

66. I have zero fucks to give about this pig. n/t

[TorchTheWitch]

15. the whole article is pretty good

That one paragraph though is... yeeesh.

[Lex]

19. This is America and there are Constitutional rights regardless of what this secret police

officer thinks.

[TheKentuckian]

21. If you don't want your communities turned against you, if you do not want to trigger flight or fight

instincts, if you do not want the assumption of malicious intent, if you do not wish to be considered inherently dishonest, if you do not want to be seen as a dangerous threat and treated as one, if you do not want to live every day of your careers as an occupying invader, if you do not wish to greatly magnify the dangers of your profession then your shitty culture must change, your Blue Wall must come down, you will give up your GI Joe costumes and your occupation gear, you will internalize you are servants of the law and ever remain subjects to it, you will break down the structural racism in your practices, and perhaps most importantly drop that imperious fucking attitude or turn in your badges, public service is not for you and that is what you are supposed to do.

Check this shit out! This is supposed to be not just one of the "good ones" but a genuine "better angel", educated and an educator, supposedly supports the ACLU, internal affairs and he still can't shake the haughty and superior worldview with the built in benefit of the doubt to the police even while mouthing the "few bad apples" standard line.

A lot of fluff and bullshit to say suck it and fill out the worthless complaint from so that you have a way to vent without pissing us off and have to fuck you up as is our right and we'll get away with it too.

FUCK THE POLICE!

[tblue37]

47. This is an *excellent* rant, TK. I wish I could rec it! nt

[TheKentuckian]

63. I will take it as recced then

[Fantastic Anarchist]

68. Righteous rant!

Nice.

[Brigid]

77. I do believe we have our thread winner here.

[redqueen]

22. "Protect and Serve" my ass

At least he's up front about cops expecting total submission to their AUTHORITAH!

[underthematrix]

23. First of all, when I get stopped by a cop,

I'm always polite because they have the same psychological profile as incarcerated hard core criminals. They just wear different uniforms. I'm especially polite to white cops since I know they naturally feel inadequate and defensive around black folks. However, my goal in dealing with any cop is to find out what they think I did wrong and what they NEED to feel good about stopping me so I can get on with the rest of my day. I do not get into arguments with cops since most only have a high school diploma or GED. In other words, they are mostly from the bottom of the intellectual food chain. They remind me of high school jocks - dumb, dumb, and dumber. I agree with whatever they say, provide my ID, collect my ticket, thank them for their time, and head back to my life. I'm in my sixties, black and have only been stopped 4 times in my life.

[Jenoch]

38. " I do not get into arguments with cops since most only have a high school diploma or GED."

I don't know where you live, but that is not the case where I have lived.

[Gormy Cuss]

24. And that in a nutshell is the thinking of people who shouldn't be cops. Period.

Even though it may sound harsh, that's the truth. Cops who think that their job is to order everyone around and to shoot or otherwise injure them for not kowtowing to every ridiculous request need to be shown the door.

[justiceischeap]

26. Something he said he did not enough officers are doing today (or so it seems)

He talks about using verbal judo to talk people down... what if Wilson had used verbal judo instead of deadly force? We'd have a whole different outcome. Or if he'd kept on driving instead of reversing his SUV to have that final authoritative word.

It seems the issue today is SOME officers are too caught up in their authority to realize that they aren't there to bully people in their community but to help them but instead they're more of a stream of revenue for the county than their to serve the citizens that pay their salaries.

[tblue37]

48. "Respect my authoritah!" nt

[lancer78]

70. lol

[SamKnause]

27. Shaking my head.

That was truly disturbing on so many levels.

[hifiguy]

28. I spent a month in China last summer

And never feared seeing a cop. I saw cops seldom, as they are much less of a public presence in the "Communist" PRC than in the US, but when I did see them they were doing normal things like directing traffic or mediating between motorists involved in fender-benders. All wore normal uniforms and had businesslike but pleasant expressions. I'd have had zero qualms approaching one.

Compare and contrast with th average US cop.

And I am a 50-something white guy.

[tblue37]

50. As I watched local CBS live coverage last night, I saw a (white) guy arrested for

daring to ask a cop where he was supposed to go. The cops had begun moving people, including press, from where they were (which was where they had been told to be). This one guy--and I think he was part of the news crew, though not a reporter, got confused about where the cops were telling them to go, so he asked a cop--and got arrested for attempting to clarify and thus comply with orders.

Complying is no protection when they want to bully and arrest people.

[Iggo]

30. Fuck that shit. (n/t)

[riqster]

31. Christ on a trailer hitch, what a sense of arrogance and entitlement.

[Baitball Blogger]

32. Respect my authoratay.

[RedCappedBandit]

34. "We have a justice system in which you are presumed innocent"

Yeah? Well then fucking act like it and quit your bloviating.

[neverforget]

35. Submit Citizen!

[Bonx]

37. Sounds reasonable to me

Which part am I supposed to be outraged about ?

[MineralMan]

39. Maybe the threatening language. I don't know.

Maybe you're not outraged by anything at all. But, try reading the whole thread. Maybe you'll understand better then. Or maybe not.

[Bonx]

40. What was the 'threatening language' ?

[MineralMan]

42. This part:

"I'm a cop. If you don't want to get hurt, don't challenge me."

Along with this part:

"If you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you."

Why should I not challenge a cop? Because if I do, the cop will hurt me.

I'm not buying that. If I see a cop doing something illegal or wrong, I will challenge that cop. Maybe. Or maybe not, since this cop tells me that if I do, I'll get hurt.

If you don't see the threat there, you're having problems with reading comprehension. I have challenged cops. But I have always done it after the fact, by reporting the illegal behavior, not on the scene. Why is that? Because of this cop's attitude, which is shared by a fairly high percentage of other cops. I don't really wish to be hurt, so I don't challenge cops face to face.

The threat is clear. That you cannot see the threat in that sentence tells me something about you.

[Bonx]

44. You can challenge the cop

But there are consequences.
He laid those out in quoted text that made up the OP.
I found it more informative than threatening.
I've seen people try & do all of the things warned against & it usually ends up badly for them.

"I have challenged cops. But I have always done it after the fact, by reporting the illegal behavior, not on the scene. Why is that? Because of this cop's attitude, which is shared by a fairly high percentage of other cops. I don't really wish to be hurt, so I don't challenge cops face to face. "

Makes sense. Cops aren't Burger king - you won't get it your way.

[MineralMan]

45. The threat is clear.

Now, normally, I'm not one who allows threats to alter my opinion or behavior. If someone threatens to kick my ass, I evaluate the situation. Most times, my answer is "Bring it," combined with my coldest possible look. So far, nobody has "brought it." However, if I'm threatened by a man with a taser and a handgun, of course I'm not going to do that.

The thing is, the threat is the problem. I don't commit crimes. I haven't even had a traffic ticket in over 40 years. There's no possible reason for a cop to threaten me. This ex-cop just did.

Are you a law enforcement person? I'm not threatened by you, either.

[Bonx]

49. I don't see it as a threat

I see it as consequences to certain behaviors. They get the final say in confrontations. Pretty simple.

"If someone threatens to kick my ass, I evaluate the situation. Most times, my answer is "Bring it,""

That's great that you're tough and all, but bravado is a poor choice when dealing with the cops.

"The thing is, the threat is the problem. I don't commit crimes. I haven't even had a traffic ticket in over 40 years. There's no possible reason for a cop to threaten me. This ex-cop just did."

No idea what you're talking about.

"Are you a law enforcement person?"

No.

"I'm not threatened by you, either."

Congratulations.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

54. Get your tongue out of authority's ass and you might be able to see better.

[Bonx]

56. No tongue in anyone's ass

Just common sense.

[ieoeja]

61. +10000000000000000000 n/t

[MineralMan]

55. Cops are not special. They do not have any more rights

than the rest of us. You may believe they do, but they do not. They just are better armed than most of us, most of the time. That gives them the power to tell people what to do, but not the right to do so.

Sorry, but this is not a police state, and we should make sure it does not become one.

[Bonx]

58. They do have the right to arrest people.

Which also allows them to physically detain them - against their will.
They are armed, trained & empowered by law to do this.

[MineralMan]

60. Nice apology for the police you have there.

They can arrest people who violate the law. Not obeying a cop is not a violation of the law, if the cop has no reason to detain you. It's a bad idea, since cops have the equipment and ability to hurt you, but they're still wrong if you are not breaking the law.

See how that works?

[tkmorris]

69. If, and ONLY if, they have just cause to do so

Not just because they fucking feel like it.

[Bonx]

74. But they get to decide if there is 'just cause'

Even if they are completely wrong.

[tkmorris]

79. That would be fine if there were consequences for them being wrong

But there aren't, not really. And because there aren't, the police have been abusing their authority for years. That's the problem.

[tkmorris]

67. You can SAY your name is Kunta Kinte, but there are consequences...

Do I have that about right?

[Bonx]

75. I have no idea what you're talking about

[tkmorris]

78. LOL really?

[tblue37]

52. Post #43 below by Jester Messiah clarifies why you should be outraged. nt

[Matrosov]

41. Cartman writes for the Washington Post?

The whole article basically says 'Respect my authoritah'

[Jester Messiah]

43. Doesn't get much more straightforward than that.

If you don't want to get hurt, do as I say.
If you don't want to get hurt, hand over your wallet.
If you don't want to get hurt, take off your clothes and bend over.

So reasonable.

[geomon666]

51. Blue Wall bullshit talk.

Disgusting that it's even printed here.

[notadmblnd]

53. So you're just itching to kill someone too?

Cause it sure sounds like it.

[JEB]

57. Fuck the police.

[eShirl]

59. America, the most freedomest country in the world!

Now shut up and don't look at me crooked.

[On the Road]

64. The Author's Main Assertion,

that the civilian being stopped by police usually determines whether the situation escalates, is undoubtedly true. I have one tenant who repeatedly gets arrested, even though he's a nice guy, because he gets grabby when he's drunk. (Saying "Hey, you can't do that -- that's not fair" to an officer is not a good way to keep from being locked up.)

I also do not doubt Mr Dutta's assertion that: "In the vast majority of such encounters, I was able to peacefully resolve the situation without using force. Cops deploy their training and their intuition creatively, and I wielded every trick in my arsenal, including verbal judo, humor, warnings and ostentatious displays of the lethal (and nonlethal) hardware resting in my duty belt.... Every day cops show similar restraint and resolve incidents that could easily end up in serious injuries or worse."

Mr Dutta may not be recognizing, however, that not all officers are like him. It is looking increasingly like the wearable police cameras are the only way to resolve the increasingly common disagreements of fact.

[otohara]

71. Back In The 60's I Mouthed Off to A Cop

got arrested but never worried about being shot, or tased, pepper-sprayed, etc.

They are so effing belligerent now - right off the bat, it's fucking attitude and meanness.

But then people weren't driving around armed with guns.

This country sucks.

[hobbit709]

72. Tell that to the guy that was asleep in his car when the pig shot him here in Austin.

[intaglio]

73. Depends on the circumstances

Considering that Americans are supposed to have certain liberties guaranteed by Constitution then infringing those liberties deserves reprimand from the public ...

... Or are police officers above the Constitution?

[Brigid]

76. This guy has far too much faith . . .

In cops and the so-called "criminal justice system."