White privilege? It is simply white advantage.

[CreekDog]

Last edited Sat Aug 23, 2014, 11:39 PM - Edit history (4)

It doesn't mean you aren't poor, doesn't mean others aren't better off than you.

It just means if you're white (I am too) that all things being equal, someone of similar position, similar income, similar job and facing an employment decision, interview with the police or some other challenge...it is generally harder if one is not white than if they are.

That's all. Don't turn white privilege into a straw man where it means all whites are rich, always get the job, never get arrested. But generally speaking, you don't have to worry, "oh I'm white and this will be harder because of that" far less often, if at all, than nonwhites.

[ck4829]

1. It's only to a white person's benefit that they recognize that privilege

Especially the poorer the white person is.

A part of white privilege causes white society to look at non-white society as the scapegoat for various ills, from the economy to the culture at large. Our media and politicians would be more happy with us at each other's throats than demanding solutions from them.

[nomorenomore08]

2. +1000

Making it easier to scapegoat is the whole point. To paraphrase LBJ, the racist white folks don't even notice their pockets being picked.

[CreekDog]

5. +1%

[hifiguy]

50. Man, did LBJ ever get that one right.

[Recursion]

3. Is there a reason the word "privilege" bothers you enough that you use a synonym?

[CreekDog]

6. The term white privilege is in my OP.

What a clueless post

and my posting history shows clearly that I'm not opposed to the term or the concept and this OP is trying to help people understand the concept and not doubt that it is real.

[handmade34]

4. another example of Black "disadvantage"

https://soundcloud.com/storycorps/alex-landau-and-patsy-hathaway-1

[Nye Bevan]

7. Interesting that President Obama never discusses racial issues in terms of "white privilege".

And neither do the Clintons, Liz Warren, or Bernie Sanders. Jimmy Carter never uttered the phrase. Nor did any of the Kennedys. These folks are not racists, and are not stupid people. So if they don't think that "white privilege" is the most productive way to frame racial issues, is it at least possible that they are correct?

[CreekDog]

9. And most of us were supporting same sex marriage before them too

Would you have told us the same then? Probably.

And what business do you as a Brit abroad have telling ne to be quiet about racial issues in my own country?

None especially when you're telling me to not post the liberal position.

As bad as you're lecturing us to appreciate Thatcher.

[Nye Bevan]

14. So, just as President Obama eventually saw the light and had an epiphany on marriage equality,

do you think he will eventually start angrily denouncing "white privilege"? Personally I have my doubts.

[CreekDog]

15. You just don't quit do you?

[Nye Bevan]

16. What will it take for Bernie Sanders to mention "white privilege"?

I know these are awkward questions that you prefer to deflect.

[nomorenomore08]

22. It's not whether any individual person makes that word choice.

It's people questioning the phrase's validity as a description of, frankly, quite self-evident social phenomena. When a young white man is far less likely to be killed by police than a young black man, what is so awful about using the phrase "white privilege"? What the hell else would you call it?

[CreekDog]

40. What will it take...

Nye Bevan (16,638 posts)
77. Why are blacks overrepresented as NBA coaches? (nt)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2219803

Nye Bevan (16,638 posts)
12. If Barack Obama had been born white, would he have still become president?

Who knows?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4142300

and what's your stake in having us Americans not use the term "white privilege"?

[Nye Bevan]

41. In general the "white privilege" threads are not especially productive.

And a significant percentage of DUers agree with me on this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024279050

And I think that smart people like Barack Obama and Eric Holder also understand this, which is why they never use the phrase.

[CreekDog]

43. why are you ignoring the "what is your stake" question?

what is your stake in this issue that you keep trying to get us to stop talking about it?

[Nye Bevan]

47. Sorry, I really don't know how to explain it more clearly.

Try re-reading the post you just replied to. Based upon the poll I posted, the majority of DUers not only understand the point I am making but also agree with me.

[CreekDog]

48. rereading your posts will not reveal an answer you haven't provided

what is your stake in this issue? what is your stake in not using that term in political dialog in the United States of America?

tell us why it matters to you personally, where you are.

[Kali]

11. no, it would mean they are just taking the least controversial and voter-friendly way out.

in no way does their avoidance of certain terms mean others shouldn't use them. get real.

[CreekDog]

12. Spot on

+1

[Lex]

17. Wait, YOU have no idea if any of them ever "uttered the phase."

How would you even know?

Publicly they would frame the issue in a way that doesn't ruffle feathers, like most effective politicians. That's not hard to figure out.

[Number23]

18. Which has fuck all to do with this OP, this topic or the price of tea in China

But we all know that you know this already.

[bhikkhu]

19. Politicians, representing all kinds of people, try not to offend

Too many people find the concept offensive, it opens old wounds fires up the privileged majority. Its a valid debate, but income equality is a much more easily issue to engage at that level without making it all about race, and all of the names you mentioned have been very vocal on that.

[loyalsister]

20. Really?

"most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race." From Obama's 2008 speech on race

[nomorenomore08]

21. Why are you still so stuck on this? It's not enough you don't use the phrase yourself - no one cares

about that - but you have to insist (er, "suggest&quot that others also refrain?

[Nye Bevan]

24. Not so much a "suggestion", more of an observation.

Most DUers believe that framing discussions of racism in terms of "white privilege" is unproductive and the vast majority of Democratic politicians appear to concur. Perhsps these folks are onto something.

[chervilant]

33. Posting a non-scientific, internet poll

responded to by a tiny fraction of the members of this forum does not add weight to your insupportable assertion.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

35. When people are part of the problem, they tend to vote that the problem is someone else. nt

[LanternWaste]

39. With only a 77% +/- Margin of Error.

With only a 77% +/- Margin of Error.

By Jove, maybe you're pretending to be onto something as well!

[JI7]

23. those are politicians who need the vote of white people to get elected, Obama and Carter got attacks

just for saying there is racism in itself.

[gollygee]

26. By all means, a group of white people should decide what language best describes it

/sarcasm

[Nye Bevan]

27. President Obama is part of "a group of white people" now? (nt)

[gollygee]

29. OK a group made up primarily of white people

Have you discussed the matter one-on-one with any of them? Politicians are very careful with how they word things in public, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to be.

[CreekDog]

45. President Obama has made no such decision that we should or shouldn't use certain phrases

if you keep attempting to try to make it sound like it is HE and not YOU that is pushing this idea, someone is going to accuse you of trolling on this topic.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

34. They don't want to face all the denial and poutrage for doing so.

Part of being a politician is finding the most noncontroversial way to talk about anything you're not claiming as your signature issue. Most politicians don't face the trolls head on. And note that their 'most productive way to frame racial issues' hasn't actually resulted in any real changes.

Nothing changed after the President's 'beer summit'. 'These folks are not racists, and are not stupid people'. No, but they're simply avoiding the problem. Ask them and they'll give noncommittal answers that make for good sound bites, but do NOTHING to change the status quo.

So no, it's not possible they're correct to dance around the real, ongoing problems. It just means their political focus is, and remains, elsewhere, on other problems.

[Rex]

46. You can only make that claim IF you can read peoples minds.

NOBODY said any of those people are stupid or racist. JUST because those people are not talking about white privilege, does not necessarily mean they are against the concept.

Nice try, but you can't read minds.

[CreekDog]

53. .

not sure how seriously to take your comment about what Americans should say about race, when you also said this:

Nye Bevan (16,645 posts)

180. Shouldn't one goal of High School be to teach the Queen's English? (nt)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3110740

[freshwest]

8. 3/5ths compromise, Dred Scott, KKK, Jim Crow, Michael Brown. Do I really need to say more?

[Cleita]

10. You put that very well.

I know plenty of poor white people, but I also know that if a job becomes open and five people of differing backgrounds and equal qualifications apply for it, the white guy will most likely get the job.

[treestar]

31. At this point, when you talk to conservatives or apathetic white people

They will disagree with that. They've been convinced by Rush, etc., that the black person will get the job - affirmative action.

[MillennialDem]

13. Related topic: ask a trans person if male privilege exists

It sure as hell does and can confirm it by observational evidence. I can't confirm white privilege exists as extensively, but I have no doubt it does.

[eridani]

25. If you are into gaming, the notion of "difficulty setting" is helpful

Note that you still get screwn if you roll low for strength, charisma, wealth, etc.

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/

Dudes. Imagine life here in the US — or indeed, pretty much anywhere in the Western world — is a massive role playing game, like World of Warcraft except appallingly mundane, where most quests involve the acquisition of money, cell phones and donuts, although not always at the same time. Let’s call it The Real World. You have installed The Real World on your computer and are about to start playing, but first you go to the settings tab to bind your keys, fiddle with your defaults, and choose the difficulty setting for the game. Got it?

Okay: In the role playing game known as The Real World, “Straight White Male” is the lowest difficulty setting there is.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

36. +3d6+2 nt

[treestar]

30. I know poor white people

For whom Being white is all they have to think well of themselves. The white privilege thing, while true, doesn't get us anywhere. In fact, the poorer the white person, the more likely they are to embrace the privilege. They may even feel entitled to it. If every white person acknowledged their privilege, we might be no better off. IMO this is a fail and some other method needs to be discovered. Like discussing the disadvantage of not being white (i.e. treatment by police and the courts, etc.) That will gain sympathy.

[merrily]

32. You know who doesn't have any kind of white privilege? People of color.

Hell, white women barely have it.

Why is the exact definition so important, anyway?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

37. I don't know about 'the exact definition'

But one of the usual obtuse 'it doesn't exist' dodges is to say 'I'm white, and my life sucks, and no one is giving me anything'. The OP is simply trying to break through to that particular demographic, to tell them, 'yeah, you still benefit from white privilege, even if your life sucks and you've got no real material wealth'.

[CreekDog]

44. i said nothing about an exact definition being important

[merrily]

57. Starting a thread on the exact definition is not saying something about its importance?

[CreekDog]

58. i did not start a thread on the exact definition

but be obtuse if you must.

[merrily]

59. Your OP speaks for itself. Going ad hom doesn't help.

[riseabove]

42. Excellent post, thank you.

[hifiguy]

49. You definitely on to something here

but this is a lot more subtle and multi-faceted than the typical Intertubes argument. To me - a middle aged white guy - your post seems dead on target. And being Aspergers (dx'd 2005) has nullified much of whatever "privilege" I may have ever possessed out in the real world.

[clarice]

51. So this well dressed, well spoken black man....

and a toothless white hillbilly walk into a business to apply for the same job....................

[CreekDog]

52. and your comment is designed to do what?

besides indicate that you didn't even read the OP that you're commenting on?

[gollygee]

54. Think about your comparison

You're saying that if any white person at all is unable to find a job, and any black person at all IS able to find a job, there is no white privilege. Can you see how unfair that is? Just as unfair as if I compared a white man in a suit and tie and a poor black man who was dressed in tattered clothes applying for the same job.

If a white man in a suit and tie, and a black man in a suit and tie, both applied for a job, who is likely to get the job? If a poor white man and a poor black man apply for a job, who is likely to get it? Here's a clue: white men who have criminal records have an easier time finding jobs than black men with no criminal records. Google it. There is a huge advantage when job hunting for white people, and your post trivializes it.

[Nye Bevan]

55. Well... sometimes the black man in a suit and tie gets the job over the white man in a suit and tie

[gollygee]

56. Yes, occasionally

That was a very good day.