Additional Information on Smear Campaign on Michael Brown

[marym625]

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON SUPPOSED "ROBBERY"

More of the video from the store where the FPD have claimed Mike Brown stole from has surfaced. The second half is still unclear but seems to show the individual in question paying

Ferguson police release convenience store surveil…:

More importantly, the store owner and employees said they don't claim it was Michael Brown

http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/08/ferguson-store-owner-says-he-doesnt-believe-thats-mike-brown-on-surveillance-video/

More proof of a campaign to make Michael Brown look bad
Done without proof or with any question of possible innocence

[TorchTheWitch]

1. this is just stupid

Johnson admitted quite some time ago that it was Brown and him in that video. Also, it's ridiculous to imagine it was two other people that just happened to look exactly like them and wearing the exact same clothes.

[marym625]

3. According to whom

Did Johnson state that was him?

That's beside the point. The FPD claimed that Wilson knew about this when he approached Brown and Johnson. That was not true. They also claimed a "strong armed robbery" when there was no robbery. There was no complaint made. There was no robbery.

[pintobean]

4. You seem to be creating your own reality.

I don't understand the point. There is clearly a robbery happening in that video. It was reported by a customer.
There was a complaint made. There was a robbery. It was Brown in the video.

[marym625]

7. no. There was not a complaint made

A customer did call the police. The store owner and employees did not file a complaint nor report a robbery. If they are the only ones that can report they were robbed. And the police were called about something they believed happened to someone else. There is not "clearly a robbery. "

[pintobean]

12. Did you watch the press conference

that the store's lawyer held about this? I did. The whole thing. Local stations here in St. Louis carried it live. They gave the video of the robbery to police when requested. They were also complying to a warrant for the hard drives. They were trying to tell their customers that they weren't taking sides. They were not trying to say that the incident didn't happen.

[NaturalHigh]

13. I'm afraid you're wasting your time offering facts.

Some people can't be convinced that grass is green.

[marym625]

16. exactly

And some people are too dense to get the point

[NaturalHigh]

17. Ironically, I couldn't agree more.

[marym625]

15. yes

And I never said that the owner wasn't pushed. I said there wasn't a robbery. The owner has NEVER said he was robbed. And the police came after Michael Brown was shot. Thursday after to get the video. The owner complied with subpoena, not with a request. Mike Brown was not a suspect in a robbery when he was killed. .unlike what the FPD have tried to make us believe

[pintobean]

18. I'm done.

That's so far removed from what happened, there's just no point in continuing.

[marym625]

23. Good

And it was exactly the point

[NaturalHigh]

6. Yes, Johnson admitted through his lawyer what happened.

This really isn't a big mystery here.

[marym625]

9. link it.

[NaturalHigh]

10. That seems like kind of a snide reply...

but here you go.

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/attorney-dorian-johnson-michael-brown-robbery/14118769/

He also had a warrant out for his arrest and had pleaded guilty to filing a false police report.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2732122/Revealed-Key-Michael-Brown-shooting-witness-Dorian-Johnson-arrest-warrant-theft-busted-lying-cops.html

[marym625]

19. no, it was a quick reply

I can't believe that is supposed to be some proof of a robbery, especially for Michael Brown. Johnson stating it is them in the video does not in any way mean he is saying either of them stole anything. On a side note, I have never heard of something as cheap as 3 cigars called robbery. Shoplifting, not robbery. Calling it robbery was said only to inflame

Johnson's record has nothing to do with Michael Brown being shot.

Until they release dispatch of this supposed "robbery suspect" being put out prior to Michael Brown being shot, it's nothing more than conjecture and most likely a lie. It wasn't until Friday they came up with this story while their town was in hell. If this were true it would have been stated immediately. And, as Michael Brown's father stated, Wilson would have said more than to just get on the sidewalk.

Bottom line, there was no robbery. It was an excuse by the FPD

[NaturalHigh]

29. Well okay then...

Don't be surprised if a jury interprets the facts differently than you.

[marym625]

33. I would love to have more facts

But with no incident report from Wilson and the FDP report having only time and date, there is almost nothing put out from the police side.

I hope there is a trial

[TorchTheWitch]

31. yes, there was a robbery

and Johnson ADMITTED that it was him and Brown in the robbery video. There WAS a complaint made of a robbery which is why it came to the attention of the police who then put out the description of the two involved.

And the person in the robbery video that just happens to look exactly like Brown was also wearing the same exact clothing that Brown was wearing as he lay dead in the street. Not even the family nor there attorneys have tried to deny that it was Brown and Johnson in that video and that it was a robbery. The family's and their attorneys only complaint was that it was released at the same time as the officer's name who shot Brown and without warning the family beforehand that they were going to release it... not that they have any obligation to.

Good grief, trying to deny it at this point is just plain stupid. And denying your own EYES is even more stupid.

Yes, Brown committed a robbery moments before Wilson stopped him and Johnson on the street but was apparently not the initial reason for the stop. According to both the police and Johnson the initial reason for the stop was because they were walking in the middle of the street.

[marym625]

34. wrong

No robbery complaint was made. No one other than the police has said there was a robbery.

[Voice for Peace]

37. I'll back you up on this, that's also what I've been reading.

And it didn't look like a robbery, to me, in the video. They spent
way too long at the checkout, it just doesn't look like a robbery
to me and that person he shoved very well may have been
the person who called the police. I'd imagine the person thought
he was shoplifting, confronted him at the door, got confronted
back and shoved out of the way. Speculation only, and doesn't
really matter since it has NOTHING to do with his death.

[marym625]

38. Thank you

I appreciate it.

[davidpdx]

2. Definately

[marym625]

51. Thank you

[marym625]

8. What family lawyer?

And that doesn't make it a robbery

[JaneyVee]

11. Its not a crime if no charges were pressed/reported.

[marym625]

20. Thank you

[Lee-Lee]

47. Bullshit

Just because a report isn't filed doesn't mean a crime didn't occur.

There are millions of women out there who have been sexually assaulted or raped who have never reported it- are you going to claim it wasn't a crime?

Millions of women get abused by spouses and never file a report- is your position that if they never reported it beating them wasn't a crime?

A report is taken after the fact, to document that a crime happened. It doesn't create the crime.

As to why they didn't file a report- well, if you are the store owner, and by the time the cops are around to take the report the kid is dead, what would be the point of bothering to file a report? You won't be pressing charges, you won't be seeking to have him legally barred from the premisis, so why make the effort.

Saying just because anyone chooses not to file a report that a crime doesn't exist is bullshit and another attempt to pretend criminal behavior isn't. That doesn't send the right message to our youth who need to know stuff like stealing and assaulting a store clerk are behavior that should not be accepted not tolerated, not behavior minimized, looked at as minor or that we bend over backwards to try and pretend didn't happen when it clearly did.

There can be more than one party guilty of wrong in a string of events people, it doesn't have to be all one way or another.

[marym625]

50. Unfortunately,that's not how it works

If a woman is raped and didn't report it she was obviously still raped. But without the report, without the charges, legally, there's no crime.

The store owner didn't report the shoplifting of 3 cigars because it was not a crime worth it to them to report. They didn't call the cops. Wouldn't have mattered when the cops showed up.

Not reporting a crime doesn't send any message to kids about crime except that the victim may not feel victimized. The fact so many women don't report rape is on those women. The fact so many young men rape is on them, their parents in many cases and society.

The point of this is the FPD using a video to disparage a young man who one of their members shot to death. A video that Wilson was not aware when he shot Michael Brown.

It does not vindicate Michael Brown for shoplifting. A crime he never would have been charged with. But the FPD went so far as to subpoena a video with the sole purpose being to cause harm to the Brown family.

It cannot be used in court because it is not relevant.

There is never (or hardly ever) a completely innocent life. No one expects there to be one. To use this and then do further the harm with the words used describing Michael Brown is completely wrong in every way. There is no tit-for-tat. It was wrong. Horribly wrong

[VanGoghRocks]

14. If the store owner says there's no robbery or shoplifting, there's no robbery or

shoplifting.

Few are aware that the police returned to the store the day AFTER Mike Brown was shot to try to get someone to press charges. They succeeded in having the store owner at the time signify that he was willing to press charges. But the police went there AFTER BROWN WAS DEAD!

I hope some of the police apologists on this board are taking a moment to go WTF??? That post-mortem attempt to complete the report of the robbery smells like an attempt to cement a frame after Brown could no longer defend himself.

DUer Alcibiades_Mystery has documented this in exquisite detail in the first part of a timeline last week, although I don't have the thread immediately at hand where he or she does this.

[marym625]

21. Thank you

And as it happened, the store owner never pressed charges or even stated anything was stolen.

[yeoman6987]

22. I just read the thread

Are we doing this for the next 3 years?

[marym625]

24. I hope not

[yeoman6987]

26. So many threads about this

I mean I know I could ignore but sometimes I feel I might learn new info and not rehash an old story. The trial will clear all this up in no less then 18months to 3 years.

[marym625]

30. Please not that long

But hopefully there will be a trial

[marym625]

39. What's interesting

About what you said, is the facts that are being twisted and made into something they are not. For instance, Johnson states that is them in the surveillance video from the store becomes "Johnson admits that is them in the strong armed robbery"

[yeoman6987]

42. Well that is true too

Everyone interpretation mutters the water for sure. On purpose?

[marym625]

45. As someone else said

On this thread, if there is no complaint filed there is no crime.

[Voice for Peace]

25. I wonder if it is the White People P.R. Firm of Ferguson

who are engineering the smearing?

[marym625]

27. wouldn't be surprised

There is no doubt there are trolls about DU. New accounts suddenly arguing on the side with no facts.

[yeoman6987]

28. Really?????????

[marym625]

32. I am not joking

I have seen two brand new accounts removed tonight. One was on this thread

[RoverSuswade]

35. This is the first time I've seen all of the video.

It looks to me that Brown was at the counter waiting for the clerk to check him out. No one came. He handed the cigars to the friend. Then he may have laid some money on the counter. The clerk came out of the cooler. He may not have known that there was money on the counter and saw the cigars and said something. (just a theory)

[marym625]

36. Good theory

Last edited Mon Aug 25, 2014, 07:30 AM - Edit history (1)

He definitely left something on the counter.

Thank you, again.

[Ms. Toad]

40. First- the second half has been avaialble since the same day the first was.

Second, Johnson acknowledged through his attorney that it was a theft.

Third, please watch the video very carefully starting where Brown's hands are both visible and empty behind his back and give me the time at which Brown puts either hand in his pocket (or anywhere else he might have been carrying money) to get money to pay.

He doesn't have to be innocent of robbery for us to be outraged that he was gunned down.
He doesn't have to be innocent of robbery for us to be outraged that he police released the tape before they even told us who fired teh shots that killed him, in order to try to make us think less of him.

Insisting that he was innocent & framed just plays into the meme that police were justified in shooting him because he was a thug. And if we encouraged the world's outrage to be premised on Brown being a perfect angel, by working so hard to remediate every bad thing that is suggested about him - especially when the person he was with acknowledges it was a theft, what does that mean for the next time police gun down someone who is flawed (as we all are).

[marym625]

41. agree in part

On the entire video being available previously, I don't dispute that. I had not seen it, especially in this format, before yesterday. Only snippets.

On Johnson stating there was a theft, please link that. I have seen he stated it was them in the video but nothing saying he stated either of them stole anything. The press stating "Johnson admits it's them in the 'strong armed robbery video'" is twisting an admission as to acknowledging it is them in the surveillance video. I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying I have never read that.

You are completely correct about the rest. However, I find it reprehensible a charge has been made that is unsubstantiated to justify Michael Brown being shot multiple times. As if shoplifting is now a crime punishable by death anyway. That alone is disgusting.

[Ms. Toad]

43. He wouldn't have used the coding term strong-arm robbery -

The term "strong arm" comes from the shove as they leave the store - and is a term used by police to distinguish theft with force or the threat of force from simple theft, or theft with a knife, a gun, or other deadly weapon. (I can link to that later - but I have to run.)

Here's two links:

The friend who was with Michael Brown when he was shot and killed by a police officer near St. Louis over the weekend is reportedly confirming that he and Brown had taken part in the theft of cigars from a convenience store that day.

That word comes from the attorney for Dorian Johnson, speaking to MSNBC. Police in Ferguson had earlier announced that Brown was suspected of taking cigars from the convenience store in what was described as a "strong-arm robbery."

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/attorney-dorian-johnson-michael-brown-robbery/14118769/

“We see that there’s tape, that they claim they got a tape that shows there was some sort of strong-armed robbery,” said Freeman Bosley, Johnson’s attorney. “We need to see that tape, my client did tell us and told the FBI that they went into the store. He told FBI that [Brown] did take cigarillos. He told that to the DOJ and the St. Louis County Police.”

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-police-name-michael-brown?cid=sm_m_main_1_20140815_29822566

[marym625]

44. I greatly appreciate the information

I have not seen that before, that there was any admission of theft. I have looked too. I do want to find further confirmation.

I am more grateful for the information about the fact Wilson had no information about this when he shot Michael Brown. I saw that admission live but couldn't find it afterward.

The main point of all of this is the PD trying to use this as an excuse for shooting Michael Brown. Regardless of shoplifting or shoving the clerk/owner does not excuse what happened later. The fact Wilson was unaware of it furthers that.

I do appreciate the links

[Ms. Toad]

48. The Friday PM news conference

is when Jackson said that the initial stop had absolutely nothing to do with the store incident - it was purely a jaywalking stop. He did leave open the possibility that Wilson learned about it between the decision to stop and the shooting. (He said the only thing he could talk about things up until the initial stop - and beyond that it was under investigation and he was not at liberty to talk about it.)

But - even if he did learn about it before the shooting, it does not satisfy the constitutional due process requirements that deadly force may not be used against, "an apparently unarmed, nondangerous fleeing suspect; . . . unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." Tennessee v. Garner

ETA: http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/live-updates-ferguson-police-chief-tom-jackson-speaks-at-a-press-conference/

[marym625]

49. 100%

Is not an excuse
Thanks for the link

[marym625]

46. proof of fact

Is always appreciated and much more convincing than any "he said/she said. " Thank you again.