Rand Paul Poll

[Scuba]

33 votes, 10 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	I think reporting that Rand Paul holds positions to the left of the Third Way pulls Democrats to the left and that is a good thing.
	23 (70%)
	I think reporting that Rand Paul holds positions to the left of the Third Way pulls Democrats to the left and that is a bad thing.
	0 (0%)
	I think reporting that Rand Paul holds positions makes one a Paul-bot.
	10 (30%)
	10 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[ZombieHorde]

1. Funny.

[Rockyj]

86. I don't get this poll?

What is Third Way? Sounds like BIBBLE stuff!
This is what I think of Rand Paul:
[link:

|

[ZombieHorde]

92. The poll is making fun of many of the Rand threads

that have been on DU lately.

[MohRokTah]

2. Push poll. eom

[Scuba]

17. Pushing what?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

3. Other. I think that Rand Paul is electorally dangerous when he SEEMS

to be be 'to the left' on various issues, when in reality he's got some batty RW reason for whatever he's doing or saying.

We simply cannot cede the 'populist mantle' to a republican and run a wall street candidate without serious risk in a Presidential election that should be a walk off for Dems demographically.

[tazkcmo]

26. Uh oh

Soon you will see your post as an example of "an influx of Paul supporters".

[Louisiana1976]

27. Excellent point. We cannot fall for a Republican who is actually right-wing just because he has

some positions that sound like he's "to the left."

[Cosmocat]

43. THAT'S MY ISSUE

Whatever process is occurring relative to Hillary, I can't fathom anyone at Democratic Underground not having the capacity to pretty clearly understand this vapid little POS is spinning something in some way where on the SURFACE he is taking a "left leaning position" when at the core whatever position he is taking is purposefully directed toward this aim of a the fantastical libertarian dream world.

I get having an issue with Hillary, I DO NOT get in any way, shape or form legitimizing this pukebag.

That said ... Yeah, the people of this country are THAT stupid that you cant' rule out 50.01 percent gobbling even his bullshit up.

[Voice for Peace]

44. I'm in agreement with you, especially re young voters

[Iggo]

4. Other: Fuck Rand Paul.

[FSogol]

13. Exactly. Fuck Rand Paul. n/t

[rurallib]

24. and the daddy who spawned him and made him credible in politics

[irisblue]

33. Other: Fuck Rand Paul & Ron Paul

they are a curse on this country

[Javaman]

36. +1 fuck him, indeed. nt

[zappaman]

47. +100!

Fuck his daddy too.

[gollygee]

49. +1

[Cha]

50. Fucking Racist disingenuous shitbag Rand Paul.

Rachel Maddow Exposes Tea Party Racist Rand Paul’s Civil Rights Act LIES (Video)

http://aattp.org/rachel-maddow-exposes-tea-party-racist-rand-pauls-civil-rights-act-lies-video/

Dark n Stormy Knight http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5441197

[JustAnotherGen]

53. Times 10000

At the end of the day - he hangs with the Klan.

[Cha]

61. Precisely Gen.. ol Rand on Ferguson says ""There is a very good chance that this had nothing to

to do with race ".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5439015

[stonecutter357]

55. .

[Cha]

62. .

Thank you, thank you very much, stonecutter.

[flamingdem]

90. ++1

[joshcryer]

68. +1

[Number23]

89. Thank you. One of the dumbest, not to mention most poorly written, OP's I've seen in a while

[conservaphobe]

5. Other: Those who overlap with Paul ideologically are just as dangerous as he is. nt

[Marr]

72. How about people who overlap with Dick Cheney idologically?

Is that a problem, too?

[conservaphobe]

79. I know of no one like that in the Democratic Party. nt

[Marr]

83. Hillary Clinton supported the Iraq invasion.

That's overlap.

There are plenty of "Centrist" Democrats who agree with Cheney on a host of economic and foreign policy issues.

[flamingdem]

6. Other: Rand Paul is a racist asshole

[Louisiana1976]

29. Agree wholeheartedly.

[Rex]

7. No clown option?

SO ANY LIBERAL AGREE WITH THAT?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

15. Niether are toupees

But we're paying for yours Randy.

[Rex]

16. Every time we pay for his gas, his clown car gets a new clown.

[11 Bravo]

31. That's a toupee? FUCK, I thought it was a recently deceased mange-ridden wombat!

[hifiguy]

48. It is a toupee MADE from

a recently deceased mange-ridden wombat.

[11 Bravo]

51. Aaaaah! It all becomes clear to me now.

Thanks.

[hifiguy]

52. It's cool!

[TNNurse]

35. Did he really say that?????????

What is his position on air and by that I mean oxygen?

[sharp_stick]

8. Other: What Iggo said n/t

[PeaceNikki]

9. push poll. it's a total misrepresentation.

[Scuba]

18. Pushing what?

[PeaceNikki]

20. The idea that his positions are to 'the left'.

[Scuba]

64. Is legalization of pot to the left of the Third Way? Is his anti-war rhetoric to the left?

[PeaceNikki]

65. No. And no.

Legalization of pot? No. That's pretty widespread these days.

His 'anti-war' rhetoric comes from his desire to be an isolationist. Calling an isolationist "anti-war" is like calling a Klan member "pro-Anglo culture" it's a total misrepresentation.

Sure, he opposes military intervention in foreign wars, but not out of a sense of decency or pacifism; he would also withdraw from the UN (including humanitarian and peacekeeping operations, foreign aid would disappear, and if you think "unstable" regions are bad now, imagine what they would be like with the double-edged sword of multinational (read: US) corporate interests moving unchecked throughout the developing world AND an absence of monitored unilateral military involvement in those regions. Paul's position isn't one of altruism; it's one of isolationism. Not that I'm an advocate of First World military involvement in foreign problems, but look at what isolationism has netted in the past.

It is not 'more progressive'.

[Scuba]

67. Legalization support is sure not widespread here in Wisconsin.

Your point on isolationism is an excellent one. Just a little critical thinking / examination and one gets to the motives behind Pauls rhetoric, and they aren't consistent with traditional liberal thinking.

[PeaceNikki]

71. It's growing:

Nearly three weeks after introducing a bill to legalize recreational marijuana, state Rep. Melissa Sargent, D-Madison, has attracted six co-sponsors, all Democrats.

Joining Sargent’s pot proposal in the Assembly are Reps. Terese Berceau and Brett Hulsey of Madison, Rep. Sondy Pope of Cross Plains, Rep. Fred Clark of Baraboo and Rep. Tod Ohnstad of Kenosha.

The lone Senate co-sponsor is Sen. Nikiya Harris of Milwaukee.

Sargent acknowledges that the support her bill has garnered does not reflect the influence necessary to get majority support from her own party’s caucus, let alone the Republican-controlled Legislature.

But she thinks it’s a good start in the long-term campaign to realize a policy that was recently implemented in Colorado and Washington state.

Read more: http://host.madison.com/news/local/writers/jack_craver/seven-state-legislators-support-wisconsin-marijuana-legalization/article_5346165e-9360-11e3-a70d-001a4bcf887a.html#ixzz3BRbJnoz6

[Scuba]

73. The Democratic candidate for Governor, Mary Burke, told me face-to-face ....

... that she wouldn't sign a bill to legalize pot if it got to her desk.

[PeaceNikki]

74. It grows from the ground up.

[TBF]

10. Where is the FRP option? nt

[hifiguy]

11. That Rand Paul is actually right about a handful of issues

does not prove he is NOT an idiot. Even idiots can accidentally be right once in a while. But they are still idiots.

[Voice for Peace]

45. a lot of idiots have been elected president. nt

[Fuddnik]

63. And a lot of idiots have elected Presidents.

eg: Raygun, Busch, or any Busch (Yeah, I know)

[Voice for Peace]

84. which came first, the idiot voters or the idiot presidents?

[GoneOffShore]

12. Why? Just why?

[leftstreet]

14. Because DUers are being accused of supporting Paul

I've seen no evidence, but the accusations keep flying

A poll is a good thing

[Orrex]

23. It follows a thread that I started

Here.

I'm not saying that Scuba posted this poll in response to my thread, merely that the poll came after that thread.

I asserted that a statement highlighting Rand Paul's strengths in opposition to HRC's perceived weaknesses ultimately serves as a statement in support of Paul. It doesn't mean that the poster is campaigning for Paul or that Paul is identified as a better candidate across the board, but pointing out his supposed strengths gives him credibility that he frankly doesn't deserve.

Scuba's poll quite reasonably seeks to explore this, to see how others interpret the discussion of Paul's perceived strengths.

My $0.02.

[JohnnyRingo]

54. If people who successfully argue that HRC is more conservative than...

...some republican candidates, then they will serve to convince a number of democrats to stay home on election day because "there's not a paper thin difference between the parties". That's a common excuse for not voting as it is for a large number of democrats, a bloc that is famous for not participating in elections.

While implied Rand Paul supporters and HRC detractors may assure us they'll vote for the democrat regardless of who wins the nomination, one has to consider how they affect cynics who already see voting akin with getting a root canal.

There is an incredible democratic-thinking majority in this country. The problem is they don't vote. One only has to look at the local government in Ferguson MO to see the consequences of such voter apathy. Republicans, on the other hand, are taught by their conservative fathers to vote every time, even if it's just for the proverbial dog catcher. They'll show up to faithfully vote for the republican dog catcher.

[Scuba]

87. "If people who successfully argue that HRC is more conservative than...

...some republican candidates, then they will serve to convince a number of democrats to stay home on election day because "there's not a paper thin difference between the parties". "



Isn't it incumbant on the candidates to actually be different enough so there's no confusion? It shouldn't be too hard to be different from the Republicans for crying out loud.


Your Ferguson example falls flat. The entire town has been turned into felons and fugitives by an out-of-control police force, for the express purpose of keeping them from voting.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025416747

[JohnnyRingo]

91. I don't want to bicker...

..but Rand Paul reminds me of the 21st century Ralph Nader. He's a stated republican, sure, but he's been pandered recently as some sort of third choice, appealing to both the left & the right. I can respect ideals, but convincing people to consider a third party or even a republican is how we got GW Bush in 2000. Had it not been for Nader, there would have been no Supreme Court decision. Your strong convictions may make you proud, but they handily serve to seat republicans in office.

As for Ferguson, I don't believe it's a chicken or the egg problem. The police dept was organized by minority whites entrenched in office to maintain their interests. It's impossible to blame that situation on anything other than the consequenses of long term voter apathy. I'm sure there are many well qualified candidates among the majority population, and a landslide of votes available, but no one has apparently cared until this month. Hopefully, those people will realize a change soon, and it won't come from a hot summer protest. It never does.

[betterdemsonly]

19. They sure are a quiet majority.

The 14% are a loud bunch.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

21. A bowl of horseshit

attracts flies, the flies produce maggots,
the maggots eat the shit, so a bowl
of horseshit is a good thing, and also
it makes other things smell nicer.

[ecstatic]

22. None of the above. I don't think disingenuous, plagiarizing clowns

should be the model we use for comparing/contrasting democrats. By now, it's clear that Hillary is not that good at campaigning, and she's way too hawkish when it comes to foreign policy; but I do NOT want to see Rand's name floating around as the superior guy. He's just a snake who'll say anything to weasel his way into the White House so that he can enact his right wing, white supremacist ideology.

[Louisiana1976]

32. And that's the truth.

[Blue_Tires]

25. Might have used a couple more poll options...

[Ichingcarpenter]

28. He's a Poser

just like Hillary

[Starry Messenger]

30. What left positions?

I don't get this poll. He's a raving populist right-wing maniac.

[johnp3907]

39. Thank you!

I'm so sick of this crap. Wanting to decriminalize drugs so R. J. Reynolds and Coors can sell them passes for leftist?

[joshcryer]

69. woo posted an idiotic 3rd way CT reflecting this poll.

[0rganism]

34. i think a problem arises when raising his "lefty" positions in absence of context

as his handful of progressive positions (mostly foreign policy and drug legalization) do constitute the exception to the norm of his extremely right-wing views on economics, social programs, and racial equality, among other things. this annoys DUers aware of his overall record, and leads to claims of disruption against the "issue raiser" implicit in the OP's poll, which may or may not be the case (more often than not, lately). DU does suffer from some dogmatic rigidity, but it is not an uninformed dogma.

[OldRedneck]

37. I think . . .

Rand Paul is a nutcase who appeals to nutcases.

[caraher]

38. Note that the leading choice is none of those given (at least so far)

I think the correct answer is in post #4, with the long form in post #33

[JohnnyRingo]

40. "If you don't work, you don't eat".

Nearly every libertarian principle follows that fundamental creed.

Libertarians universally believe that personal success is the only means to survival and decry government intervention in any way, whether it's regulatory or social safety nets. One can't pick & choose which libertarian mantra they wish to support when it always comes down to that one defining belief. You get the good with a lot of bad, and Rand Paul has plenty of the latter.

Personally, I believe the government does more for me than it does to me.

[wyldwolf]

41. oh cool

This poll will either allow Paulbots to out themselves or provide cover when they deny being one.

[JDPriestly]

42. I think that the idea that Rand Parul could appeal to Democrats is dowright stupid.

A snark by those who cannot accept the fact that others may differ with them on whether Hillary Clinton should be the Democratic nominee.

It's a pretty pitiful attempt to shame very smart people into following a misguided crowd.

[JoePhilly]

46. He's not to the left of anybody.

He's a right wing nutjob who takes positions that appear to be liberal, only because he thinks it will help him get other extreme right positions overlooked.

[pnwmom]

56. Ron Paul, the tea bagger, doesn't make Democrats "go left." He makes Democrats

[MineralMan]

57. FRP! nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

58. I thought Rand Paul holds positions under some kind of fur bearing critter.

[Historic NY]

59. I think he is an asshole...who has more positons then a recliner.

[BainsBane]

60. It pulls the Democratic Party to the right

which is the goal.

The man is for no restrictions on big business and Wall Street. He is a shit bag racist, misogynist, and homophobe. The only reason to support Rand is if one shares those values. The only place that pushes the Democratic Party is to the right, toward the interests of the few over the majority of Americans. People who hold such values support candidates who likewise do.

Pretending there is anything leftist about that is a bastardization of the term. I am sick to fucking death of people excusing a view of politics focused entirely on the privileged few as leftist. When people show they have no concern with the majority of Americans, they make clear there is nothing leftist about them. The left is Marx. It's socialism. It's not Rand Paul, David Duke and the Aryan Nation.

People seem determined to advance libertarianism above social justice. Just be fucking honest about it and stop claiming there is anything leftist about it. This Ayn Rand view of politics is the opposite of leftist. To claim there is anything leftist about such views is to engage in the Big Lie that promotes the interests of capital and the privileged above the common good.

[joshcryer]

66. Wow. New low for DU.

[NRaleighLiberal]

70. FRP. both of em. That is all.

[DemocraticWing]

75. None of his positions are leftist in the traditional sense of the word.

Some of his libertarian positions come across as similar to things we support, but note that these are for other reasons and would not be considered actual leftist thought.

His economic philosophy is so anti-leftist that it's laughable to even claim he's to the left of any Democrat. He makes Zell freakin' Miller look like Trotsky.

[underpants]

76. Rand Paul holds and pulls

[Zorra]

77. Depends on who is being reported to. Some Independents are very easily fooled,

they might buy his snake oil if they fixate on a single issue or two.

[XRubicon]

78. I think Rand Paul should fuck off

Add that and I'll vote

[muriel_volestrangler]

80. Would you consider reposting this with better wording?

I presume you mean "holds some positions to the left of Third Way", but your wording is currently ambiguous - it looks as if you could mean "his overall positions are to the left of Third Way", which I doubt many people could vote for without collapsing in laughter. And "I think reporting that Rand Paul holds positions makes one a Paul-bot" makes the poll like a complaint that people are called a Paul-bot for just talking about him, rather than a genuine poll. Was that meant to be "holds some positions to the left of Third Way" too? The number of 'other' votes you've got indicates high dissatisfaction with the poll options.

[Scuba]

81. I didn't say all positions, or even most positions. I think most DUers have a good enough ...

... understanding of logic to get that it means some positions.

[muriel_volestrangler]

82. It's not a question of logic, but that it can mean 'some', or it can mean 'overall'

Both are 'logical'. If you don't specify, then you get loads of people (about a third) saying 'other'.

[Scuba]

88. "Holds positions" does not imply all positions. Anyone inferring that it does is not being logical.

[muriel_volestrangler]

93. "overall" - the word I used twice - doesn't mean "all" either

This is why I think your reading comprehension isn't doing well, as well as your way of wording your questions. It's your English that's a problem, not logic.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

85. I'm probably fairly described as a Third Way Democrat. I despise Rand Paul (nt)

[NutmegYankee]

94. The problem people are having here is we are describing two-axis politics with only one axis.

A person can believe in far socially libertarian views, like legalization of drugs, and still be economically right wing, as is the case with Paul. I dislike intensely economic libertarianism, but I would like to see ending the drug war become a mainstream Democratic plank.