There is no such thing as an "accident" when a 9-year-old has control of a submachinegun

[Recursion]

Forgive my bursting in here. I was a US Marine for a long time. I still shoot competitively (which is quite difficult when you live in India). I have fired as far as I know every single weapon approved for use by the US military, including the Uzi (which, incidentally, is not regularly assigned to anyone).

There is no such thing as an "accident" if a 9 year old was given full control of an Uzi. Period. This is not acceptable; that was not an "accident". It was negligence.. I have fired all kinds of machineguns, and SMGs like the Uzi still scare me: there is no reason for a child to handle one, period.

A 9 year old may be given control of a low-caliber rimfire rifle or low-gauge shotgun. That was what I learned on. But it is absolutely not acceptable for a gun range to declare open season with their automatic weapons.

Submachineguns are not toys. I am appalled that it takes deaths to remind us of that.

[Yavin4]

1. Fallout of our gun culture

We worship guns in this country.

[Cha]

144. Exactly, Yavin. The NRAers Worship guns in this country.

[liberal N proud]

2. Why was a 9 year old given such a weapon?

[LynneSin]

42. Because there are Ammosexuals out there that think it's cute to do this.

Children do not know how to love or hate. They do not know what is right from what is wrong - they must have it taught to them. And there was a gun-loving crazy parent who thought it was acceptable to teach their child how to use such a powerful weapon.

I rate that up there with as acceptable as taking a child to a KKK rally or giving a child illegal drugs. Just downright stupidity on part of the parents.

But should the parents be held accountable? Hell no - the instructor was just as negligent by allowing a young child to hold such a powerful weapon.

Does that mean a child should never be allowed to hold a gun? Absolutely not! I think with the right supervision and appropriate size gun with training there is no reason why a child couldn't be taught how to hunt or at least proper safety.

[benld74]

63. 1st time I've seen the ammosexual term, very fitting,,,,,,

[lastlib]

154. I think it may have been first used by Bill Maher 3-4 months ago.

(couldn't prove it, though........)

[ashling]

170. I believe you are correct

at least that is where I first heard it and it got lot's of attention here at the time.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ammosexual

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/06/07/1305095/-Bill-Maher-goes-after-Open-Carry-ammosexuals#

[maddiemom]

68. Ammosexual! Good one; it should be added to our lexicon.

[flamingdem]

98. That is a brilliant term

and should be adopted far and wide.

[friendly_iconoclast]

109. It's a very popular term in ammophobic circles...

[maddiemom]

115. "Ammophobic!" Tip of the hat to your cleverness. As someone who's shot a lot of ammo from

handguns, rifles and shotguns over many years ( at targets because yes, I'm anti-hunting, but obviously not anti gun), I don't think I qualify as ammophobic. I really can't explain why I was interested in learning to shoot when I didn't want to kill anything. Just another experience and possible skill to those of us who are inquisitive in life. Actually I once looked through a peephole in an apartment door with a loaded handgun in hand when I was home alone and it sounded like someone was trying to break in. A false alarm, thankfully. Because I have no distaste for guns on their own, I feel justified in having distaste for gun fanatics

[LynneSin]

151. But I'm not ammophobic

I think the use of guns is not a bad thing but guns are not something that one should surround their lives with 24x7. I'm not interested in owning a gun but I do know how to use one. I come from a family of hunters and I respect their right to enjoy hunting.

I just don't want to be around people who obsess over it. These are the kind of stupid people that would allow their 9 year old child to hold a loaded automatic weapon or be an instructor who thinks it is a good idea to allow a child to hold such a weapon.

In my family people enjoy hunting and target practice but when they aren't using their guns they are stored properly. And they don't get crazy when talking about guns nor do they feel any need to own a stockpile of guns or high powered automatic weapons.

I am hardly 'ammophobic' but I really don't want to hang around ammosexuals.

[friendly_iconoclast]

173. Would it be safe to say that some of your best friends own ammunition?

[LynneSin]

174. I have family members that own ammunition

but it's locked away in a cabinet until hunting season comes around.

[calimary]

134. Dayum, LynneSin! "Ammosexuals"!

WOW! I have now witnessed true greatness.

FREAKIN' BRILLIANT!!!!!

[SummerSnow]

180. There should be a book out soon titled, 'The Ammosexualism of America'

[samsingh]

106. because many gun lovers are stupid

[yuiyoshida]

159. I mean seriously..shes probably going to be

tramatized for the rest of her life. How freaking sad is that?

[66 dmhlt]

171. Probably didn't have much of a change to begin with, given her parents ...

Think it was a GRAND idea to drag their 9 y/o to the "Last Stop" shooting range in the middle of nowhere to fire off an Uzi ... AND tape it.

[yuiyoshida]

182. Did you forget the

thingy??

[66 dmhlt]

192. No ...

I truly believe that given her folks' obvious lack of parenting skills she didn't have a great chance to begin with.

Of course she's going to be scarred worse than before - she's going to need quite a bit of therapy if she's to overcome this totally avoidable traumatic incident.

[hack89]

3. It is stupidity beyond belief.

gun tourism like that should be illegal.

[Recursion]

5. Exactly (nt)

[KittyWampus]

9. -gun tourism-

Mother Mary weeps.

[hack89]

10. A lot of tourists come to America to shoot guns

Last edited Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:08 AM - Edit history (1)

Las Vegas airport is full of ads for firing ranges offering the chance to shoot all kinds of weaponry.

I personally think it is stupid to let anyone other than adults shoot automatic weapons

[KittyWampus]

15. I had no idea

[LynneSin]

43. Personally I think it's stupid that anyone has access to automatic weapons

but that's just me.

There are no uses for these weapons other than high-power killing.

[hack89]

61. Automatic weapons are very expensive, rare and hard to acquire

they are basically toys for rich people.

From a gun control perspective they are not worth a lot of attention - you have to go back decades to find a single instance of a legally owned automatic being used in a crime. Basic handguns kill the most people and deserve the most attention.

[Hoyt]

73. Except they do show that gun control can work, because you don't see many people on the streets

getting killed with them since they were banned.

It might take decades for similar controls to work with today's weapons, but it does work. You have to start somewhere. The sooner the better, because the "gun stupidity" exhibited by the parents of this young girl ain't decreasing.

[hack89]

74. They are not banned. They are perfectly legal to own

they are just very expensive to buy and own.

[Hoyt]

87. Fine, let's similarly increase the tax on your favorite "assault rifle" and semi-auto handgun.

For all practical purposes, they are banned. Let's do same for gun cultists' favorite weapons, especially after the first one, and for all semi-autos. That'll begin to reduce the gunz on the street -- and in dangerous right wingers' homes -- by 5+ million per year.

[hack89]

88. Knock yourself out

nothing is stopping you from trying.

[friendly_iconoclast]

108. Trying would entail getting up from the keyboard

Therefore, nothing will be done.

[jmowreader]

125. The government also investigates you VERY thoroughly

The gun lovers claim full auto weapons should be as available as any other gun because it's been decades since a legal one was used in a crime.

This goes to prove background checks and the absence of the gun show loophole work. It's hard to prove you're a good enough person o deserve a machine gun. There would be very little gun crime if all guns were so regulated.

History lesson follows: full auto weapons are as regulated as they are because in the 1920s it was easy to get them on the theory gangsters would only want pistols. Watch The Untouchables to see how well that turned out - about two hours after the pistol ban was signed, every gangster in America had a Thompson.

[VanillaRhapsody]

127. I always use the example of sawwed off shotguns....THEY alone prove regulation WORKS!

[Bohunk68]

167. Decades?

Check downthread and you will find lots of links that totally counter that.

[hack89]

168. I saw links to a couple of accidents

I was referring to violent crimes with legally owned automatics.

Btw, gun tourism that allows children to shoot guns should be illegal.

[calimary]

135. It's that, too.

And a lot of other words I could use.

[malaise]

4. This was national news today (AS IT SHOULD BE)

It's ignorance on steroids.
My thread on the topic was locked.

[Recursion]

6. I missed that thread (nt)

[malaise]

13. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025447498

[Unknown Beatle]

120. How was it locked?

I clicked on your link and I could respond to your OP. I didn't see any indication that it was locked. Did I miss something?

[malaise]

138. Yes - you did

It was unlocked

[onecent]

62. Locking your thread was WRONG. Geezzzzz

What is DU coming to now?????
What IS important in General Information?

[ecstatic]

67. +1000. nt

[alp227]

96. According to guidelines

GUNS

News stories (and related content) from reputable mainstream sources about efforts to strengthen or weaken gun control legislation in any jurisdiction in the United States, national news stories (and related content) from reputable mainstream sources about high-profile gun crimes, and viral political content from social media or blogs that would likely be of interest to a large majority of DU members are permitted under normal circumstances.

Local stories about gun crime and "gun porn" threads showing pictures of guns or discussing the merits of various firearms are not permitted under normal circumstances and should be posted in the Gun Control and RKBA Group.

Open discussion of guns is permitted during very high-profile news events which are heavily covered across all newsmedia.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025307978

[malaise]

140. Hence it was unlocked

because this is not just a national story but it is international - people are quite shocked at a nine year old with an Uzi. Tweety cannot believe it.

[tridim]

7. Agreed, except that NO GUN is a toy. That's the freaking point.

[enough]

8. +1 (nt)

[raven mad]

85. +100!!

Guns are tools. Dangerous ones. And children should not be allowed near dangerous tools without full adult supervision and comprehension of what CAN go wrong, WILL go wrong.

[TheMightyFavog]

156. And if a child lacks the physical strength and training to safely operate a dangerous tool,

They should not be allowed to operate said tool, PERIOD.

A the average nine year old does not have the required physical strength and coordination to safely deal with the recoil of any fully automatic weapon. Heck, the recoil from a full bore bolt action hunting rifle chambered in rounds like 30.06 is enough to knock a kid that age flat on their ass.

[raven mad]

157. Yep - and can still knock ME right on my ass!

Agreed - 100%

[Paladin]

99. Real guns are treated more like toys now than at any prior time I can remember.

Part and parcel of a genuinely sick gun culture which holds sway over this country.

By the way, it turns out there is more than one kind of UZI automatic weapon. On another site, I found Gun Enthusiasts faulting the deceased instructor for giving the little girl a light-weight UZI to shoot; if the instructor had given the child a heavier automatic to play with, these people thought everything would have been just peachy. The world we live in......

[Scootaloo]

155. But try getting the nugentian sorts to swallow that pill

They're so wrapped up in their "pissing off the liberal gun-grabbers" dogma that they've bought their own con, and believe guns to be harmless playthings that are safe in any hands.

[democrank]

11. Obscene negligence

That little child will probably never be the same.

[DFW]

12. The place is called "Burgers and Bullets"

Recoil is not exactly a novel concept when it comes to firearms. Giving an Uzi to a 9 year old girl is asking for trouble, sooner or later. The "instructor" should never have been letting someone so small fire such a weapon, and he should have refused to do it if so requested by his employer.

Maybe they'll try to sell a few more burgers and a few less bullets. But I doubt it.

[Blue_Tires]

29. Not the first time, either...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x188632

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x344096

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x353082

[KittyWampus]

31. Damn, go to a carnaval and there are restrictions on what rides you can take based on size-

go to a shooting range and there aren't any restrictions? wtf

[jeff47]

41. They have restrictions!! The shooter has to be 8 or older.

So they're very safety conscious!

[DFW]

100. I mentioned this to my wife, who is from Germany

She started laughing, and wouldn't believe I wasn't making a joke.

[LynneSin]

44. Instructor was just as much to blame as the parents

If that was my child I wouldn't have even taken them to a place like that. But if some reason I did I would not allow my child to hold any weapons especially oversized, overpowered automatic weapons.

Perhaps if the instructor showed me that the weapon was unloaded and even then I would want to check first myself to be sure.

[avebury]

150. And you can book your child's birthday party there as well!

According to what the owner said on one of the MSNBC shows tonight (I can't remember which show).

[catbyte]

14. I saw a part of a report about this on The Today Show this morning. Unbelievable. Now that

9 year old and her little brother will spend a lifetime reliving the moment when the instructor's head exploded like a watermelon, and she will know that it's because she lost control of something she never should have had in her hands. The parents should be charged with child abuse. When are people going to realize that guns are NOT FUCKING TOYS!

My dad was a cop who taught me at a very early age to respect guns. I was target practicing using hand guns at age 8--with my dad right beside me, of course. I fired a rifle at age 12 and the recoil put me on my ass. There's no way in hell that little girl should have been anywhere near an Uzi. WTF were her parents doing anyway?

[LynneSin]

45. Why blame the parents? The Instructor was just as much to blame

He handed a loaded automatic weapon to a 9 year old child. Personally I think the guy is a front runner for a Darwin award.

[catbyte]

58. Because I am sure that the 9 year old didn't walk up to the instructor & ask to fire an Uzi

on her own. So you think her parents have no culpability in this at all? Wow.

[obxhead]

60. It starts with the parents.

They got into the car and drove to that range. Then they went into the range. Then they chose to allow their child to fire that weapon.

Sure the instructor was stupid to have the final say in the end, but fuck those parents too. They are part of the problem too.

[kcr]

107. Her mother was filming the video

I think they are just as much to blame. No way would any parent with half a brain think letting a 9 year old handling a gun like that is ok.

[LynneSin]

111. I'm blaiming parents and the instructor/establishment

There is absolutely, positively no reason whatsoever to give a loaded automatic rifle to a child that young. They the place wanted to have children pose with large weapons then they should have had an UZI that was unloaded specifically for that reason.

And just because the parents are stupid doesn't mean the instructor/establishment should also be stupid. I use to work in a bar like 15-20 years ago and on occassion we'd have parents come in with their clearly underage children and they would allow their child to buy a beer or smoke cigerettes. And although what a parent deems is acceptable for their child not at the age to legally smoke and/or drink, the bar would still be held accountable if we were caught serving alcohol to a minor or allow a minor to purchase cigarettes or smoke them. I still remember one parent who didn't like my answer so they went to the manager and even the manager was like - you want to let your kid smoke and drink you need to take them home. We aren't breaking the laws just because you want to let your kids break the law. They ended up leaving.

So to me I think it's dumb to hold the parents accountable when the instructor didn't even question the stupidity of allowing a 9 year old child to hold a loaded automatic weapon. They are all to blame!

[kcr]

113. It isn't dumb

Some things are so obvious that it doesn't matter if someone says it's okay. Just because someone else says there's no problem doesn't mean parents can toss aside good judgment.

[Stardust]

136. I'm also appalled that the mother would even release the video. WTF?!?

[ca3799]

16. Video

Here is the video (The video stops immediately before the actual shooting, but shows the instructor assisting the girl and how the recoil from the gun led to the death of the instructor):

[tblue37]

36. Considering the fact that the recoil on the same kind of Uzi

caused the death of an 8-year-old boy in 2008, because the barrel of the gun went up in the same way and shot the kid in the head, you would think that the so-called experts, like this instructor, would know about that incident and realize that a kid that young is physically unable to control that sort of weapon.

[NewJeffCT]

142. I was thinking that same thing

About, the 8 year old Connecticut boy that was killed at a gun show in Massachusetts by an uzi.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27399337/ns/us_news-life/t/boy-accidentally-kills-self-gun-show/#.U_5_XfldV8E

[RiffRandell]

83. I watched it this morning; she had no control over that weapon.

Last edited Wed Aug 27, 2014, 02:05 PM - Edit history (1)

May her wonderful parents live with guilt instead of this poor child.

[fob]

103. That video may stop before the instructor gets hit, but you can hear

the girls scream right as it cuts off. Very haunting.

[rgbecker]

122. Did you notice the target?

9 Year old shooting at black man cause that's what we do in America.

Start them early.

[Bonx]

130. Not sure if serious

It's a silhouette. These are typically back/white for visibility/contrast so the target is most visible. And cheap to print.

[rgbecker]

132. When I was a kid, I learned to shoot at bull's eyes.

Can someone explain why anyone would be shooting at a silhouette of a human? I mean other than learning to kill in the armed services?

[Bonx]

133. Have you seen a video game in the last 15 years ?

A paper silhouette is pretty tame.

[XRubicon]

141. "Alright! full auto now"

.

[Ikonoklast]

184. That instructor was unfortunately making a video of what NOT to do.

He made three glaring mistakes in that short video.

[get the red out]

17. The gun worship

The gun worship in this country has obliterated common sense where weapons are concerned.

[TBF]

18. In the country kids are exposed

to things like driving tractors, shooting bb guns, etc at young ages with supervision of parents and older siblings. Not always ideal but teaching kids how to use things properly is a whole lot better than having them find a shotgun and not know how to carefully handle it. The Uzi thing is beyond my comprehension though - no idea why a 9-yr old would be learning that weapon.

[hlthe2b]

19. What is really sad...

is that what you are saying is not simple common sense.. With all due respect to your expertise, this should be obvious to all of us--whether we've ever picked up a gun or not.

It simply sickens me how this could happen. Especially given a child shot/killed himself in a similar fashion at a gun show in CT not that long ago. Unbelievably sickening.

[Phentex]

33. exactly!

I cannot fathom the thinking of the parents or the instructor. It does seem so obvious.

[cwydro]

20. Agree

In the video the child was clearly nervous.

Parents should never have allowed that. Instructor was an idiot.

[Dont call me Shirley]

21. WTF were her parents thinking?

They need to be charged with homicidal negligence.

[LynneSin]

46. Instructor was just as much to blame

Along with the establishment which would allow young children to handle such large weapons.

[NCTraveler]

66. "Instructor was just as much to blame"

And the instructor paid a price. These parents are complete morons when it comes to parenting. Their actions are completely irresponsible.

[durablend]

71. When will they be on Fox News

To tell "their" side of the story (how the EVUL LIBTARDS are using this tragedy that couldn't be forseen to take everyone's GUNZ away)

[LynneSin]

76. In general these gun nutz are all morons

Yes these people have a 2nd amendment right to own guns but at what cost. Use your brain idiots!!

[XRubicon]

131. +1

[Rex]

22. I agree...there is never a good reason to give a 9 year old a submachinegun.

Not in any reality that I am aware of. What was next? A 12 year old learning how to fire an M-249? Insanity.

That poor little girl, I hope she can have a normal life after taking one. The adults should be punished for gross negligence.

[Recursion]

23. An M-249 would actually be safer

A large form-factor machinegun can be fired safely by almost anyone. A submachinegun is much less controllable.

[Rex]

24. Yeah but still would you give one to a 12 year old?

Somehow I doubt it.

[joshcryer]

48. Uzi's are notoriously hard to control.

Not trying to disagree, any auto machine gun is silly, but an Uzi? They're crazy man guns. Seriously.

[CBGLuthier]

26. Ooh a perfect example of gun "logic."

Kudos.

Tell me what gun would you suggest for a toddler? What should baby's first gun be?

[Recursion]

28. A .22 rimfire carbine

It's what I learned on.

I realized you asked that to show how unacceptable I am, but I thought I would answer.

[Rex]

30. What's wrong with a BB gun? Seriously why do we have to give little kids

lethal firepower? Whatever happened to CO2 powered pellet guns? Pump action daisy BB guns? Not lethal enough?

[KittyWampus]

32. what the f*ck is wrong with a SLINGSHOT? Slingshots take down small animals

if you want to hunt small game.

[Rex]

34. There ya go! Slingshots! Or you can just shoot at trees all day.

Forgot all about the good old slingshot!

[KittyWampus]

90. There are amazing slingshots now. Check out Amazon.

[Bohunk68]

166. Slingshots were also amazing

in King David's day and in Hannibal's time.

[joshcryer]

50. Very little difference between a pellet rifle and a .22.

Again, just sayin'.

Also, higher level / more professional pellet rifles ($200+ range) are as lethal as a .22, even higher end, more so. Again, just saying.

I think Recursion has their heart in the right place, the child shouldn't have even been touching a goddamn Uzi. It's insane.

[Rex]

80. Nonsense, a pellet has nothing on a .22 long or a .22 hollow point.

Just saying.

[cwydro]

92. Agree

I've killed four footed predators with my 22. With one shot and at 40 feet.

No way a pellet gun can do that.

[OldRedneck]

112. Well, there are "pellet guns" and there are "pellet guns"

I have a LOT of firearms, including a Gamo Whisper .177 caliber break-barrel air rifle (a pellet gun) and my favorite varmint gun, a Marlin bolt-action .22.

The Gamo air rifle, with certain ammo, has a muzzle velocity of 1200 FPS. I have killed groundhogs at ranges between 20 and 80 feet with it.
http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.gamo-pellets-ammo.html
http://www.gamousa.com/product.aspx?product=Whisper&productID=234

A 40 grain .22 long rifle round produces a muzzle velocity around 1000 - 1100 FPS.
http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/22lrballistics.htm

Of course, the difference is the air rifle quickly looses energy. The .177 PBA round that leaves the muzzle at 1200 FPS is running under 900 FPS at 30 yards (90 feet) while the 1048 FPS .22 round is just under 1000 FPS at 100 yards (300 feet).

Still, the air rifle -- which is a "pellet gun" -- hits like a .22 at as far as 50 yards and will do a lot more damage than "put your eye out."

[joshcryer]

148. Handling wise.

[Jeneral2885]

186. no a nuclear weapon is much safer

There are various launch codes that travel down, a two-man rule, and psychological tests and safeguards. I bet neither girl, parents, or instructor went through all.

[TheCowsCameHome]

25. Here's a link:

http://bulletsandburgers.com/

Rated by Trip Advisor as #1 of 575 attractions in Las Vegas - seriously

[heaven05]

27. as far as the 'instructor' goes?

well..........................

[sinkingfeeling]

35. The owner of the range said they will teach 8-year-olds to use machine guns

if their parents 'supervise'. He will also instruct 5-year-olds with rifles.

[TheCowsCameHome]

37. When does B & B's Jobs Fair begin?

Stupid asses.........

[durablend]

38. Why stop there?

Train em while they're still in the crib!

[WinkyDink]

39. As a culture, we respect neither guns nor children.

[TheCowsCameHome]

40. IBTL

This topic got locked last night, unfortunately.

[malaise]

49. This is being carried nationally and across the globe

That thread should never have been locked.

[TheCowsCameHome]

52. I agree, m. It isn't just a gun control issue,

rather a LACK of gun control. Literally.

[malaise]

54. Precisely

and your Bullets and Burger link is an eye opener.

[Matrosov]

69. Why is there a restriction anyway?

Why are topics about firearms restricted in General Discussion?

The Reform Activism group is as good as dead, and the RKBA group has a number of gun apologetics. GD then seems like the best place to discuss firearms.

[Orrex]

47. Someone should tell the instructor not to do that again.

[joshcryer]

51. Uzi's are nightmare guns.

It is incomprehensible a child would be allowed to but their fingers on one, much less a loaded one. I pity the dead instructor who thought, "OK, this is a good idea." They clearly weren't, actually, thinking.

[Recursion]

55. Exactly (nt)

[Jeneral2885]

189. all guns

and weapons are nightmares. ISIS used a knife to behead a journalist. That's a night mare.

[Enthusiast]

53. Kicked and recommended!

Fully automatic.

How fucking stupid.

[Orsino]

56. I'm not seeing a clear distinction in acceptability.

If a nine-year-old absolutely must not be handed a submachine gun, I don't see why a shotgun is absolutely acceptable. I think we're talking degrees of risk rather than absolutes...but I lost a childhood friend to an accidental shotgun blast from his preteen son. It occurred on a hunting expedition, and I believe my friend took safety seriously.

I wouldn't advocate for absolutes in either direction, but a ahotgun is only less lethal than weapons capable of automatic fire.

[LiberalArkie]

57. A darwin award winner

[Jerry442]

59. But if the instructor had given the little girl an overly-familiar hug...

...he'd have probably lost his job and maybe even criminally charged. Handing her a killing machine that I've heard even adults have trouble controlling -- that was morally squeaky-clean.

[tclambert]

64. Guns should be held to the chainsaw standard.

Would you let a young child operate a chainsaw? If not, why would you think a gun is safer?

[Recursion]

65. Oddly enough, that's the comparison I use, too

Growing up in West Texas, I came to think of a shotgun or pistol as something like a chainsaw or machete: a device that was useful (even necessary) for time out on the back 40. Something associated with drudgery and manual labor. Then again my grandfather was a ****ing stickler about making me clean it, which is only right, really.

[libodem]

70. .

. [img][/img]

[Fred Sanders]

72. All children in single digit age are irresponsible gun handlers, their parents are the irresponsible

gun owners, and the instructor is a loser without any other means of living than teaching nothing at all.
Next time you decide to post some socially backward criminal act in the third world, remember all the socially backwards criminal acts in America where such acts are defended.

[mainer]

75. Link to story of Uzi killing an 8-year-old at a gun show

Similar case. Uzis are just too powerful for children to handle.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27399337/ns/us_news-life/t/boy-accidentally-kills-self-gun-show/#.U_3uNxwym_0

[exboyfil]

158. The sponsor of the event was found not guilty

of manslaughter and all other charges 3 years later.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/01/14/mass_jury_resumes_weighing_boy_uzi_death_case/

[Skittles]

161. stupid bastard still has to live with it

stupid fucking asshole

[SunSeeker]

163. They parents were videotaping that too.

The recoil caused the fully auto Uzi to point up and shoot the kid's head off. And the parents have it all on video.

[John1956PA]

77. The instructor's Facebook page reveals he was to the political right.

The instructor was Charles Vacca of Lake Havasu City. Here is his Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/charles.vacca


One of his posted images shows a woman spattered in blood. The quote on the image reads, "Don't worry honey. I just made sure that ***** would never say 'Hi' to you again."

Another posted image makes an unflattering suggestion about men who drive Ford vehicles.

[VA_Jill]

78. A 9-year-old

has no business at a gun range, IMHO, let alone handling weapons. LET ALONE handling an automatic weapon! That is just effing stupidity on the part of her parents AND the instructor! IMNSHO, the instructor is at least partially responsible for his own death. He and the girl's parents showed very poor judgment in letting her handle the Uzi. She is neither mature enough nor big enough to do so, nor does she have the physical strength or muscle control necessary. A gross error on everyone's part!

[dionysus]

126. i was 13 when i got my bb gun and my dad gave me a long talk on how to be safe with it. an UZI at 9?

insanity..

[northoftheborder]

153. my father-in-law gave my youngest son a BB gun when he was 6. He, F-I-L, shot himself in the...

....thumb while showing my son how to use his new gun. He was only slightly embarrassed. We've had all kinds of high-powered rifles around our ranch house for years; there have been at least three accidental firings of bullets in the house; thankfully no one was hurt. Personally, for myself, a shotgun will fulfill any need for protection from snakes or otherwise. I do not hunt, but respect those who do. Every time some horrible incident occurs with crazy people committing mass murder, or horrible accidents like this one happen, there is a big uproar. But what ever actually happens to reform our gun laws????? Nothing.

I'm glad to see most people think this incident with the child & the uzi is totally insane and irresponsible on the part of the parents, the instructor, and the owner of the business.

[tea and oranges]

79. Our love affair w/ guns & death continues...

I've heard that the 9 yo girl is no angel.

[bigtonka]

81. I can't help but wonder -

will she grow up horrified at what she caused, or proud of her 1st kill? With parents who would allow a 9 year old to hold an Uzi, I'd say it's a toss up.

[aikoaiko]

82. With supervision there are age-appropriate guns, but auto-fire Uzis are not one of them

Nine is a fine age to start a kid with single action .22lr or a 10/22 rifle at most.

I've seen the video it given what happened in Massachusetts I'm surprised the instructor didn't have a hand on the barrel .

Letting kids have full control over machines like guns, ATVs, chainsaws, and rider lawnmowers will always lead to rare but tragic accidents.

[raven mad]

84. Amen +1000 Recursion -

I learned to shoot at a young age; my mom was a rifle champ. She would have skinned me alive with her flyswatter if I dared even TOUCH her .22 at the age of 9 without full supervision.

I didn't get my hands on a semi-auto until in the Air Force.

Her parents should be ashamed.

[1StrongBlackMan]

86. And this isn't the first instance ...

there was a death at the hands of the parents that allowed the child to shoot a SMG.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/father-christopher-bizilj-died-firing-uzi-urged-son/story?id=12565132

When will parents learn?

[ecstatic]

89. omfg!

[nolabear]

91. IMO this was child abuse.

NO child that age should be fooled into thinking she can safely fire an automatic weapon. Hell, I don't think a nine year old should know they exist. But I'd put it in the category of child endangerment in a heartbeat. She will never, ever, ever be the same. If she's LUCKY she'll someday manage to be enraged that she was put in that situation rather than being overwhelmed by the fact that she killed a man.

[Matrosov]

93. Exactly

Even though it was the instructor who had the idea to consent to this is the one that paid with his life and not the little girl that was thrust into this situation, this is nevertheless a terrible tragedy that will likely haunt her forever and affect her quality of life.

Yet having said that, I'd worry that she'd blame herself even more, if her parents were punished in some way or even lost custody of her because of this child endangerment.

[nolabear]

118. Truly. There is no way out of this that is not harmful to her, but maybe it could be helped.

I'm not fond of taking children from their parents unless their lives or physical or emotional wellbeing are in genuine danger, i.e. psychological torture, neglect, etc. Much better to try to help the whole lot of them to deal with this terrible thing, and to let her know that this isn't something she did, this was something that was done to her. If her parents could be genuinely regretful themselves and let her know it wasn't her fault and they were very sorry for making the mistake they made in putting her in that situation, then they all might have a chance. Sadly, the instructor's chances are over.

[marions ghost]

178. Prosecute the parents first

The girl would be put in foster care or care of a responsible relative while the parents serve jail time. You can get into the counseling side of it also....but anything less than jail time is too passive, too weak on this issue.

Otherwise you cannot stop this. These people need a strong lesson.

[nolabear]

181. It's not illegal. And it's not reportable child abuse. And it's harmful.

Foster care is a LAST, not a first resort. Trust me on that one.

[marions ghost]

183. I disgree about child abuse

--it may not be considered as such to this point--but the laws need to be written to include this as child abuse, and to have the parents do jail time for negligent homicide. They have armed their underage child with a lethal weapon. A weapon that nobody really needs to own or shoot. It's total insanity--and IMO one of the worst kinds of child abuse. Her parents have made her a killer. Think about it. Would you put a 9 year old into a car and tell her to drive on the Interstate? If so, you have created a killer.

I agree that foster care is a last resort. Maybe there are relatives who would take her in while the parents serve time.

If there are not strong penalties, this carnage will continue.

[Matrosov]

94. An edited video

This video shows the girl and the instructor right to the moment where she loses control of the sub machinegun.

[rock]

95. So it's like the idea my boss had

of storing the hand grenades for safety by removing their pins first. Some of the grenades went off by "accident" (all but one - it was a dud). (OK, a parody, although my boss is that stupid).

[sarisataka]

97. Very true

When we started training on SMGs for CT work we spent hours dry firing and firing single shot before gong to full auto. Everyone was a Marine already trained on firing full auto, most of us with combat experience.

As you say, the Uzi is a particularly tricky weapon to control. Let adults fire a tripod mounted M-60 if they want to pony up the cash for a momentary thrill.

[Exposethefrauds]

101. Thankfully the Uzi or any other firearms was not hurt or injured

[Arugula Latte]

124. Yes, and the girl got to exercise her Second Amendment Rights, so that's the most important thing.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

102. Can your 9yo pour from a full gallon of milk into their cereal bowl

... without making a mess?

No?

THEN DON'T GIVE THEM AN UZI.

D'oh.

[Paladin]

110. +100,000. Thank you.

[Jeneral2885]

187. Some can

others let the parents pour the milk.

[appleannie1]

104. I doubt the parents realize they are to blame if their daughter has nightmares the rest of her life.

Who in their right mind would even allow a 9 year old near a gun like that let alone allow her to have lessons in firing it? And the instructor should have known better too.

[Jeneral2885]

188. The instructor

is part of the organisation/agency that allows small children to handle guns. I don't blame him at all.

[samsingh]

105. neither are any types of guns

[AlinPA]

114. it looks like the target is the shape of a person, not a bullseye. Teaching 'em right.

[hamsterjill]

116. There is NO reason for a child to handle one, period.

Absolutely. You hit the nail on the head.

This is an absolute tragedy for this child because she will have to live her life knowing that this happened. Very sad indeed.

[marions ghost]

117. Nobody has even said that there should be laws against this

...there should be strong laws and STIFF penalties. Strictly limiting the age that people can shoot any kind of gun.

You have to stop this carnage somehow. It will just keep going on and on. Why? Because people are just this stupid.

[WinkyDink]

119. Why? What could go......Oh.

[Arugula Latte]

121. This whole thing is just so completely ridiculous.

Last edited Wed Aug 27, 2014, 06:37 PM - Edit history (1)

The parents and the instructor were morons for thinking this child needed to learn how to shoot one of these things.

And, yes, this is pretty much an "Only in the sicko, fucked-up Yoo Ess of A" thing.

[markpkessinger]

123. What's even worse about all this . . .

. . .is that, according to The New York Times, this happened when the instructor, after the girl had fired a single shot successfully, switched the weapon to automatic fire, and when she then proceeded to shoot, she couldn't control the continuous recoil from the multiple, rapid-fire rounds, and that recoil caused the weapon to swing around causing a round to hit the instructor. I mean, anybody who has ever shot a rifle of sufficient caliber for deer hunting could have, and certainly should have, foreseen that a 9-year-old girl (girls that age weigh what, maybe 75-85 pounds on average?), would have neither the strength nor the body weight to enable her to control a damned Uzi, much less one that was in automatic mode! It was absolutely negligence -- by the instructor, by the parents and by the shooting range. And for the parents, that negligence is closing in on outright child abuse.

[WillyT]

128. K & R !!!

[XRubicon]

129. This poor kids parents share some blame

Sure, let's have our 9 year old fire an Uzi. What could go wrong?

Right up there with, hold my beer and watch this...

[kardonb]

137. uzi

charge the parents with murder for allowing their child to "learn" how to use such a deadly weapon . They are unfit to be parents , period !

[Spitfire of ATJ]

139. Next up, a chimp with a grenade.

[Cha]

143. Totally agree, Recursion!

[jmowreader]

145. No 9-year-old could possibly "have control" of a submachinegun

[frylock]

146. it's fortunate that only the instructor was killed..

been saying this since Newtown: these idiots are their own worst enemy.

[TorchTheWitch]

147. same damn thing killed a little boy not so long ago

Gun show, big gun kid can't possibly control, recoil causes muzzle to rise shooting kid in head.

Disgraceful.

Found it:

http://www.journalinquirer.com/page_one/club-pleads-no-contest-in-ashford-boy-s-uzi-death/article_4b81d5f2-2c1b-5f65-a6b2-5c4a8a62fd04.html
A Massachusetts sporting club is donating $10,000 to children’s charities as part of a deal settling criminal charges in the death of an 8-year-old Connecticut boy who accidentally shot himself in the head with an Uzi during a gun fair.

Christopher K. Bizilj’s parents approved the Westfield Sportsman’s Club’s plea deal reached Thursday in Hampden Superior Court in Massachusetts, where his mother’s written description of their grief left the judge visibly shaken.

[WCLinolVir]

149. Agreed. How insane to give a small kid such a weapon.

Now the child will have to live with what happened, when it never should have been allowed, or should I say forced upon her with the expectation that she should be able to use this lethal, dangerous, firearm. Bring those parents up on charges. Let's have a clear picture of who bears the responsibility for this man's death. I can't help but think the instructor also, should have known better and caused his own death.

[LittleBlue]

152. A 9-year-old can handle a revolver

Maybe a hunting rifle, but that's about it.

You don't give a 9-year-old girl an Uzi. She was never going to be able to handle the recoil on full auto, that's insane.

[LeftOfWest]

160. A 9 year old Boy cannot handle an Uzi either. Insane. n/t.

[Jeneral2885]

191. no

they can't even hold a knife and fork properly.

[LeftOfWest]

162. Yes. This.

Yes.

[SunSeeker]

164. Not a peep from the NRA about this...

Just like right after Sandy Hook.

[Rhiannon12866]

165. I learned to shoot at summer camp and shot competitively on two teams

No one under 13 was allowed to even pick up a gun and we were required to know and prove we understood numerous safety rules ahead of time as well.

I heard the owner of the range - or whatever it is - on MSNBC tonight. He's just now thinking of instituting a size requirement for children?! He said the 9-year-old girl was "big" for her age. She looked like a little kid to me. And he regularly allows children as young as 8 to shoot weapons if they have their parents' permission?! He's lucky he hasn't had a terrible accident every day.

[creoledna]

169. "Uzi for you, Uzi for you, Uzi for you, Uzi for everybodeeeeeee"

It can't simply be an accident because someone is responsible for putting a loaded Uzi in the hands of a nine year old.

The nine year old is too young to be responsible for herself.

The parents and the dead guy are responsible for the dead guy.

Can the wife of the dead guy sue the parents of the nine year old for contributory negligence in her husbands death?

Can the nine year old sue both her parents and the shooting range for screwing up her life by having to live with being responsible for the dead guy's death?

Particularly strange is the number of other young children shooting Uzis I saw in videos.

Next headline "Fourth grader kills teacher and 12 students in 30 second rampage" ......children were laughing after killer farted in previous period"

You can quote me on this: "Fuck gun rights"

[Jeneral2885]

190. as I've said

nuclear weapons are far safer.

[TNNurse]

172. My husband and I had quite a disagreement on this.

He says accident and that the gun range and instructor are the ones who are responsible.

I say negligence on the part of the gun range, the instructor and the parents.

Some say accidents cannot be avoided. We do as a culture call many incidents which could be avoided "accidents". Automobile, industrial, construction incidents are all commonly referred to as accidents. Poor planning, inattention, poor or non-existent training, and wrong equipment all contribute to the many incident that harm disable and kill people every day.

So a business (gun range), provides equipment (an Uzi) to a person who is not qualified to operate the equipment safely as in too small, too young (9 yo girl) and someone is harmed by the unqualified person using that equipment, to me that is negligence. I believe that everyone but that child is negligent. She is harmed and will have to live with this.

I am not a parent but I have observed some really ignorant parenting in my work.

I will give an example. I am a nursing supervisor in a small community hospital. When I received a call saying that a woman who was currently a patient asked for meal trays for her 12 yo daughter, I asked why and was told the girl was staying in the room with her mother. I reminded the nurse that this was not acceptable and the girl needed another adult with her in the room or she needed to leave. A patient who may be getting medications that alter their mind cannot be responsible for the CHILD'S safety. Very few patients do not receive some kind of pain or mood altering medicine.

The patient did not like this and I was called to the room. I told the mother that a child could not remain with the patient unsupervised and she replied that her 12yo daughter WAS AN ADULT. I assured her that she was not 18 and was not an adult. I assured her that the hospital was not responsible for her daughter's safety because she was not the patient. If she fell asleep, the girl got bored and wandered down to the gift shop or snack bar and was abducted by some stranger, we would not be responsible, she would.

I also assured her that if someone does not come to be with the girl or take her away within a reasonable time period, that Child Services would be notified and that they would consider this some kind of neglect. I usually tell the nurse to tell such patients that their supervisor has found out that a child is in the room (sometimes it is toddlers and occasionally infants) and will notify Child Services unless it is resolved. The nurses are usually horrified. In 15 years in this job, I have never called them. The threat always works. I would do it though, trust me.

This woman thought her 12yo was an adult, those parents thought it was okay for a 9yo to shoot an Uzi at a paper target that depicted a person. It terrifies me what else they allow or encourage their children to do.

[marions ghost]

176. This is child abuse

and needs to come under laws against child abuse.

I agree with you--all the adults are responsible.

Hard to believe the range owner would have the nerve to make a public statement defending himself. That is how callous and crazed these people have become.

[napkinz]

175. you can always count on the NRA ...

[DonCoquixote]

179. I agree

Frankly, if Ferguson teaches us anything, it means that even people who have been "trained" in handling "military weapons" can still act like idiots. There is no reason for any child to use these, and I do not care if they were some child super solider that could beat a Marine Coprs Sniper. Kids and Guns should not mix, period.

[Jeneral2885]

185. beyond that

why do all the pro-Gun groups think they need guns to protect themselves form a tyrannical government? Given the pace of technology nowadays, any government can use even other means that firearms to impose tyranny...