Men’s Rights Activists: Video gaming should be a “safe space” for male nerds.

[KamaAina]

Yup, you read that correctly.

http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/08/26/mens-rights-activists-video-gaming-should-be-a-safe-space-for-male-nerds/

Though Men’s Rights activists devote an enormous amount of their time denouncing feminism – or at least the imaginary version of feminism that exists only in their own heads – they’re happy to appropriate feminist concepts when it suits them. One that many MRAs seem especially eager to claim for themselves is the idea of the “safe space.”

Of course, their version of the “safe space” bears only a slight resemblance to the feminist original. Feminists seek to create spaces for discussion in which say, rape survivors can discuss their experiences without being triggered by insensitive arguers and trolls and mansplainers in general.

When MRAs talk about “safe spaces,” by contrast, their goal is often to exclude women not just from discussion spaces but from full participation in society, essentially declaring giant arenas of work and play, from STEM fields to video games, to be places where feminists, and women in general, should fear to tread....

The “male spaces” he has in mind – the “hacking scene,” atheism, and the video game industry – won’t come as a shock to anyone familiar with the current state of nerdboy rage, but might trouble anyone who thinks that women are, you know, equal to men and have the same rights to choose their own careers and have their own interests and beliefs.

Atheism?!

[kcr]

1. The swarms are everywhere!

Top rated comment: "The logic of how feminists target predominantly male spaces is very similar to the pattern of locust swarms."

[Scootaloo]

2. Atheism, as defined by "The Angry Atheist"

Who is a youtuber whose rants I used to enjoy, until he devolved into a white-is-right, misogynist, libertarian dickbag.

[KamaAina]

3. The only avowed atheist among my nearly 400 FB friends

is a woman. A disabled woman of color, in fact. Deal with it, MRA.

[CSStrowbridge]

8. Same here...

I liked some of his videos, but he either became a racist, sexist asshole, or that side of him just came out more and more.

[alp227]

4. "Man Boobz" is now "We Hunted the Mammoth"?

I've enjoyed reading Man Boobz for mocking MRA website. Wonder why the name changed?

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

5. Oh FFS.

indeed.

[DonCoquixote]

6. to these male nerds

Go to hell. Amy hernnig made the Drakes uncharted series. A female rebooted Tomb Raider, and frankly, the better video game critics are ladies like Morgan Webb and Jessica Chobot. If you cannot handle that, log off become a loser like you are in all your others area of life. I want powerful, strogn women to have a say, be they the ladies I mentioned, or even fictional ones like the heroines in the Bioshock series that take no crap (hats off the Elizabeth, Daisy, Brigid , Elenor and sally)

[NuclearDem]

55. BOOKER CATCH. BOOKER CATCH. BOOKER CATCH.

Sorry, everytime I think BioShock...

[DonCoquixote]

62. oh yes

and if they give Bioshock to anyone, I hope Amy henning is one of the main candidates. Of course, I will refrain from how all the good ratings and glory were given to a very sexist game named the Last of us, that ripped off Bioshock in all the wrong ways., but I will save that rant.

[uriel1972]

7. As a male gamer I disagree 100%...

Making the gaming "space" more female friendly only makes it more interesting and more comfortable for me. I doubt most male gamers share my feelings though.

[seabeyond]

14. i think it is just the difference between a misogynist and not. i know my husband and that group of

men literally have NO interest in taking their night of play into a world of misogyny. it does not enhance the games they play, it merely throws an unnecessary damper on their night of play. i listened to one company making computer games saying they would not have that shit in their games, it would not be missed and for the guys to grow up. doesnt seem to have hurt that company.

[Warren DeMontague]

9. When I play titanfall I always use the female gendered pilot.

I challenge any MRAs to stand up to my female titanfall ass kicking.

[daredtowork]

10. video game culture reinforces male entitlement

This article explains it all:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/your-princess-is-in-another-castle-misogyny-entitlement-and-nerds.html

Now take those ideas, throw a bunch of guys together in their "safe space" echo chamber and watch them use "rape" every other word, and particularly as a metaphor for conquest. The only place for women is as their 'hos, which should only stick around as long as they're fun.

lol @ atheisim.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

26. 'video game culture' changes from game to game.

Lord of the Rings Online isn't perfectly gender neutral, but mainly because there are always 'WoW' immigrant players around.

The 'body customizations' don't allow you to create freakishly sexual females, and the only 'gendered' clothing that I can recall is the dwarven 'naked chest', which is also the only way for any character to get even partially nude. But there are no female dwarves in the game. Apart from that, as far as I know, any character can wear any item. Guys in dresses or skirts, women in shirts and pants. There are no 'penalties' or 'bonuses' in game tied to gender. If anything, the game is far more female-friendly than the books, with more strong female characters in-game.

[daredtowork]

34. Not Much

IMHO, there's sort of an international video game culture (which you admit by mentioning the immigrant WoW players) that somehow forge a more generalized "4chan" style - though I'm sure 4chan is not the only place it comes from. There's probably dozens of forums, blogs/tumblrs, twitter cult followings, facebook groups - but somehow there is definitely an "international gamer style" that has been developing, and that style definitely has a male gaze no matter how many women are participating in the actual gaming.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

35. I don't know about the international culture

but I haven't noticed nearly as much sexism on the German or English LoTRO servers as I used to playing online multiplayers games back in the 90s. And even the WoW (or 'chan' if you prefer) types are farther and fewer between than they were even six or so years ago. I think those types are often the 'power gamers' who like to get into a new game early, level to max power, then get bored and move on to the next game, while the rest of us plod along and poke around, enjoying the complexity of the game world.

[daredtowork]

37. trickle down

I think the culture of the power gamers trickled down. Also there's been a great deal of global blending, so you can't just talk about servers "in Europe" or "in Japan" or "in the US" or "in the Philippines" anymore: it's just one big stew with local variations speaking texting-level English. And the gaze is overwhelmingly male.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

38. Actually, on the German servers, we speak German.

And I assume on the French Servers, they're speaking French. I don't know where the servers are physically.

Yeah, there are annoying people who speak English on the German servers, but they're mostly sneered at.

[daredtowork]

39. Would you consider that a cultural break?

Once you are off of the International (sub)English culture circuit, does that foster a different, more German culture? Or does it get infiltrated by the memes of the International one?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

40. It's hard to really say, since I've never given it

much thought. I've noticed a few things - the German servers seem (to me) to have more emphasis on working together, with more of the people behind the characters showing up in kinships, as people. Now part of that might be geographic - the Germans are mostly in a much smaller area with better public transportation, which allows people to get together offline more easily, since I noticed the same greater collegiality when I was in a mostly Kiwi (New Zealand) kinship on an English speaking server. But the kiwis were more 'male gaze' as you put it than even the regular American groups, and being in that kinship was often like being on an American reality show with lots of silly drama.

[daredtowork]

43. Real Offline Contact

Real offline contact would probably make a big difference - especially in terms of seeing women as real people instead of prizes to be won.

I shouldn't be representing myself as too much of an expert - my contact with this world is marginal at best, and I'm not in the "target demographic". XD But I've had a lot of time on my hands to wander about and observe stuff, and my passing impression - from the English speaking world only - is that the same culture is being fostered on servers all over the world, and it is, sadly, a culture of male asshattery that can easily be transported out into real world relations/assumptions. And there these poor schmucks will find they are very much mistaken about how many times they can get away with "rape speak" in a normal conversation. That, it seems to me, is why they are fleeing back to their "safe space".

[justiceischeap]

11. It's this kind of attitude that often sees me playing video games solo

instead of co-op, and I also try and seek out video games that allow me to play female gendered characters. One of the games I'm currently playing is Borderlands 2 and though it has it's problems here and there, it's a pretty inclusive game that doesn't treat the female in the game as worn out tropes (The clothing is still sexist but it isn't as blatant as it could be--though they do put one of the male characters in daisy dukes). There's even a quote from one of the NPCs that says, "NOTHING IS MORE BADASS THAN TREATING A WOMAN WITH RESPECT!" <= The character that said that always yells.

Of course, from what I understand, the majority of the game characters are considered bisexual too because they didn't feel the need to change the language when someone chose a male or female character to play as--so if there was flirting going on, it was across the board which appeals to my lesbian sensibilities.



But yeah, I've encountered my fair share of guys in co-op gaming that refer to someone being a "little bitch" or a "faggot" and I'm not talking about little kids saying this stuff (though they do), I'm talking about grown-ass men who make videos of gameplay on YouTube for profit.

I've been video gaming since the first Atari came out so I never considered it a "male" space to begin with so I don't know what these guys are referring to. It reminds me of the Christians that are afraid they won't be able to say hateful things about gays publicly because it's considered hate speech.

[Egnever]

21. Been gaming online since 95

Have played almost exclusively as a female Char all that time. In the very early days of Ultima online and everquest. I would occasionally get others gamers hitting on me or giving me stuff for now reason, now days I don't really see a difference in treatment from my chars be they male or female. I think the gaming community in general has matured a lot in the last 20 years.

Having said that there are still a lot of very angry young men playing video games that lash out in all sorts of reprehensible ways.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

28. That mirrors my experience as well.

Been playing both male and female chars for years, and in the 90s, the female chars would get lots of unsolicited attention, but that's pretty much nonexistent over the last decade.

[jamzrockz]

52. Oh you still get lots of

goodies and attention as a female character. I played Anarchy online in the mid 2000s and just about the moment you come out of newbie island to the main island, you immediately get players offer you credits, armor and mentor ship. My guess is that it is dead in games that have voice chat.

I later revealed to my org that I was a guy and some of the attention died down. Also we had 2 real females in the org of about 300 real players not alts and they were treated with the utmost respect. There are very few of them in MMO games anyway that when you see one, you want to do everything in your power to keep them.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

58. Not on LotRO.

I'd guess half the players on actually are women. I think part of it is that the average age of players is higher. I've met several grandmothers while playing.

[Starry Messenger]

12. Because there just aren't enough safe spaces for men.

o.O

[SecularMotion]

13. I don't think the “hacking scene,” atheism, or the video game industry

wants to be associated with these neanderthals.

With their anti-female views, white supremacists or the religious right would be a better fit.

[KamaAina]

15. Hey! Take that back!

That's a gross insult to Neanderthals!

[hifiguy]

16. Dolts or idiots?

Not sure....

[mythology]

19. Try using and instead of or

Then you don't have to decide.

[hifiguy]

20. Good point.

Tnx for the clarification.

[chrisa]

17. These gamers are losers who have no idea what they're talking about.

First of all, they define "gaming" as only their crappy fps set piece shooters like Modern Warfare and Battlefield. There's a whole world of gaming beyond this. I say this as both a gamer and a developer.

Secondly, they probably play with women every day and don't know it.

The best way to paint yourself as a sad, basement-dwelling virgin is to whine about how oppressed men are using video games as am example.

[Egnever]

18. So silly I find it impossible to believe

So ridiculous I call bullshit on the whole article.

[chrisa]

22. I assure you - the angry pasty-faced virgin swarm seen here is real.

It's an army of man-children that bring their real life frustrations against women and life to the Internet. They snivel incessantly about Phil Fish, Anita Sarkessian, and MRA "red pill" nonsense.

Reddit seems to be their main base of operations, but they can be found anywhere on the Internet.

[Egnever]

33. Again so what?

pick a subject any subject and you will find that the people who speak out on that subject get death threats from people who disagree.

It doesn't make it right to do such a thing but pretending it is somehow unique to this particular subject is ludicrous. As is pretending there is any sort of legitimate group of people believing such a thing.

Pick a subject I can find you a nutjob on the net especially on redit that has something ridiculous to say. Quoting nutjobs and giving them legitimacy is more of a problem in my mind than ignoring them for the trolls they are.

[intaglio]

24. So, do you think that the rape and death threats made to Anita Sarkeesian and her family

are "bullshit" and have nothing to do with her criticism of video games?

Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
Article by Colin Campbell on Polygon

Since the launch of Feminist Frequency's Tropes vs Women in Games, creator Anita Sarkeesian has faced a wall of abuse and threats from enraged critics of her detailed research that highlights misogyny in game fiction.

This week, the abusers drove her out of her own home.

"Some very scary threats have just been made against me and my family. Contacting authorities now," she wrote on Twitter last night.

She later tweeted, "I'm safe. Authorities have been notified. Staying with friends tonight. I'm not giving up. But this harassment of women in tech must stop!"

Earlier today, Sarkeesian shared a particularly disturbing series of threats from one abuser, along with a trigger warning. "I usually don't share the really scary stuff. But it's important for folks to know how bad it gets."

Threats like -
I'll kill your parents too XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX I've seen their house

I'm going to your appartment at XXXXXXXX and rape you to death. After I'm done I'll ram a tire iron up your XXXX.

Again via we hunted the mammoth TRIGGER WARNING for the tweets and e-mails contained as evidence

[Egnever]

32. Not at all but

That has little or nothing to do with gamers thinking video games should be a safe haven for males. Anyone who speaks out about anything gets death threats from wackjobs that disagree with them. That doesnt make them special in anyway it just means theres a lot of nutjobs out there that send death threats to people they disagree with.

[intaglio]

48. Well there's the minor problem for you

that women are moving towards equal numbers in video gaming
The new face of video gaming: Women outnumber teenage boys

[Egnever]

49. How is that a problem for me?

[Egnever]

50. And LOL at that article

The statistics in that article rely on things like candy crush saga to make the numbers come out like they do. The idea that that could be considered gaming for the purpose of the original discussion is laughable at best.

[intaglio]

51. Ah! so they are "not true gamers"

and some of them may even be not "true Scotsmen"

[NuclearDem]

53. Casual gaming is still gaming.

And I say that as someone who doesn't particularly care for casual gaming.

[Egnever]

60. no argument with that

but the op is about treatment of women in online games and candy crush saga doesnt really allow for treatment of anyone in any way whatsoever. Including numbers counting games with little or no interaction between players to make a point about online games where there is interaction is comparing apples to oranges.

[NuclearDem]

61. No, it wasn't.

It was about alienating women from the video game industry--single player, multiplayer, casual, hardcore.

The sexism problem in video games isn't limited to what some idiot screeches over their headset during Call of Duty.

Pathetic little MRAs want their video games as they've always had them: damsels in distress, barely functional female armor, passive sex objects, and pure male dominance. That goes for multiplayer and singleplayer. Now that women gamers are making up a larger and larger portion of the market and developers are starting to realize this and dial back the sexist bullshit, the whiners are out in force.

[LanternWaste]

42. It does tend to invalidate tightly held dogmas.

It does tend to invalidate tightly held dogmas. so I can understand why many would dismiss it out of hand based on little more than... a guess?

[Rex]

23. Everyone should be able to enjoy playing online.

I've played video games since the age of 13...and I have a pretty good idea what male nerds are afraid of; that a women will come along and whip their ass in a video game!

[MillennialDem]

25. Trans woman atheist and gamer here - though not a hax0r

Take that MRAs!

And I've been playing games since Super Mario Bros when I was 5

[KamaAina]

36. Welcome to DU!

[MillennialDem]

44. Been around awhile, but thanks.

[tkmorris]

27. As someone who dabbles at least in all 3 of those disciplines...

I can tell you that what is needed across the board is MORE female participation and perspectives, not less.

These guys are morons.

[w4rma]

29. An entire industry is not your "male safe space", idiots. (nt)

[Jester Messiah]

30. So, donning asbestos underwear here...

Perhaps they find it "triggering" when they can't even play a simple video game without being constantly denigrated as rapists-in-waiting, oppressors, and bigots. Perhaps they would like a "safe space" where they can just relax and unwind and machine-gun a zombie into hamburger without considering their non-undead privilege and how they might be oppressing the zombie.

[seabeyond]

31. wouldnt it be nice? and equally, wouldnt it be nice for women to be able to not be raped

for entertainment, or threatened with rape... ect.

i understand mans burden. i just feel my right not to come up with being degraded, humiliated, shamed, "the joke", should also be in the equation. oh, being the progressive i am. woman. feminist. and be allowed just to unwind and have an enjoyable evening.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

41. Try Lord of the Rings Online

I find it to have fewer asses than most online games I've played.

[Niceguy1]

47. or their game

Trashed but the angry gf who wants attention or chires done lol

[NuclearDem]

54. 1) That's the same tired old strawman that gets debunked constantly.

2) I'm a gamer, and I love Anita's videos. And, shockingly, it didn't ruin my gaming experience one bit.

[Jester Messiah]

56. What strawman?

I think they're just saying "Leave our games alone, we're tired of getting yelled at everywhere else, don't yell at us there too."

[NuclearDem]

57. That one.

You're not being yelled at or called potential rapists.

Someone's just pointing out--very accurately, I might say--that video games have a huge sexism problem.

[TheSarcastinator]

45. digital environs should be safe spaces for EVERYONE

Why the hell is that so difficult to understand???

[Iggo]

46. Safe to do what? Treat women like shit?

Boys, boys, boys.

[drm604]

59. Wow. That's seriously weird.

I don't understand why this is even a subject of discussion. Maybe it's because I don't play online games. What goes on there?