ISIS is to Islam as the Westboro Baptist Church is to Christianity.

[Fred Sanders]

Muslims throughout the world have condemned the abomination that is ISIS as much as Christians condemn Westboro, they are both evil bastards with no redeeming value, weak minds melted into insanity by religious fervour and the cult of personality.

ISIS has killed more Muslims than any other religious group, and wants to kill ever more and those not killed will be enslaved in their own personal insane brand of Islam...sound familiar?

So say we all?

[RKP5637]

1. Yep, we have the same thing here in the US, it's just called different names, different people.

Not as bad as ISIS, but given the opportunity ... I really do have concerns about the religious fervor and irrationality of these individuals.

[ProfessorGAC]

2. While I Loathe Them Both, Fred. . .

. . . only one of those groups behead people and tape it to brag about it.

Horrible and horribler?
GAC

[Fred Sanders]

4. I prefer the world wide consensus of moderate Muslims and adopt their viewpoints....ISIS is an

an abomination of Islam, as Westboro is an abomination of Christianity.

True, one of the tribes is not armed.

Yet.

Remember the Bundy ranch moochers? "True" Christians, God's chosen ones fighting the evil dictator ruling the lands, and they are armed.

How for are they from gathering a couple of thousand fellow proud Christians and seizing a few towns in the deserts of Arizona?

Why can you not seperate the crazies from the not crazies in all religions?

[ProfessorGAC]

10. Like i Said. . .

. . .i loathe both.

[Fred Sanders]

11. I also. But not the underlying religion. Think it through, professor.

[ProfessorGAC]

14. I'm Openly Disdainful Of Religion

I don't poke at people who do belong to some religion or other. But, i'm not a fan of any religion.

[Fred Sanders]

31. I would look in the mirror before I call an entire religion radical...according to you?

You hate the Muslim religion and all who practise it regardless of sect or belief, got it.

Fox News will welcome you better than here.

[Fred Sanders]

35. 96% is radical, got it....care to backtrack some more? No one is calling you a racist.....yet.

[Fred Sanders]

33. Muslims is not a race....so...try again with the pre-emotive denial. Your words belie your denial.

[Dragonfli]

37. I'm sorry you are so myopic and hateful, but here is an example of humane views

held by some rather high up clerics http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025434146

I know you can find kind hearted Muslims who think their religion stands for peace and tolerance, but these are people who have no official standing or no theological precedence. Every mainstream school of Islam (where mullahs, clerics and scholars come from) holds deeply inhumane views.

This is simply incorrect,

I will let you read the link I references and see if you are worth giving the benifit of the doubt as simply ill informed by some hateful people whose hate speech you innocently fell for.

[Fred Sanders]

53. He was auto removed, hate and intolerance are not welcome at DU, another reason to stay put.

[Dragonfli]

54. Yes I know, I voted to have PPR /nt

[LeftishBrit]

3. Not in Our Name: British Muslims Condemn the Barbarity of Isis

http://www.mcb.org.uk/not-in-our-name-british-muslims-condemn-the-barbarity-of-isis/

[Fred Sanders]

6. Check out the Canadian Islamic Association, they are exactly as condemning. And the American.

They are just not getting the media airtime, it would be contra productive to the mission of ginning up fear in the homeland.

"Duck and cover" all over again.

[jwirr]

5. And that is why the ME should take care of this problem instead of us.

[Fred Sanders]

8. Absolutely. America needs to disengage and stop pretending the world is grateful for their military

meddling in all corners...again, who was it that gave America it's "world police" badge?

What I say makes so much sense the only way to refute it is to gin up fear that somehow something half a world away concerns protection of the "homeland" without using the word "oil".

And that requires manufacturing fear.

By the way there are 202 other "homelands" on the planet......

[snooper2]

7. you started a new thread LOL

Um, no, they literally follow their holy book


THEY ARE FUCKING FUNDIES THAT IS WHY THE TERM EXISTS

[Fred Sanders]

9. They do not literally follow their holy book......as much as Westboro does perhaps. Literally.

[MohRokTah]

12. More like ISIS is to Islam what Army of God or the Phineas Priesthood is to Christianity.

For all their obnoxious bullshit, WBC is only obnoxious, not dangerous.

[FrodosPet]

44. Who woulda thunk such an innocent looking young man...

...would be such a religious bigot?

[MineralMan]

13. While the comparison is somewhat apt, ISIS is made up of murderous thugs, while

WBC is made up of incestuous unarmed morons. The comparison breaks down at that point.

[pampango]

15. True, though they both profess to be "pure, fundamentalist" followers of their respective religions.

Were all Germans fascists? Or were they "weak minds melted into insanity by religious (nationalist) fervour and the cult of personality? Were they fighting other Europeans because they thought Germany had been weakened and unfairly treated after WWI? That their ethnic 'brothers' in Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland needed saving from evil regimes?

Are the people who protest abortion outside of women's health facilities not really Christian because I think they take their religion too far or misunderstand it?

[Fred Sanders]

16. No. Yes. Not sure. Some. No.

[gordianot]

17. I made a similar observation it was pointed out to me Westboro is non violent.

They are more in the mode of taking predatory advantage of Courts. That is not to say there are not KKK and hate groups that have formed from locations in your local Baptist to your local Catholic Church capable of similar violent religious extremism from bombing shooting Federal Buildings, bombing abortion clinics, killing Physicians, killing people of other religious beliefs, shutting down Government services, encouraging violence against domestic politicians, believing everything on radical cable News, etc. etc.


The intent is there just not the organization.

[Fred Sanders]

18. Westboro openly wants to kill whole segments of society, the only difference is they want others to

do the killing for them. They are inciters, not doers.

ISIS only had incitement before also.

[hifiguy]

19. The difference being that the

WBC nitwits have no real power behind them. I suspect that if you scratch the surface of ISIL you will find deep connections to the Wahhabi medievalists who literally own Saudi Arabia.

[The Magistrate]

20. And No True Scotsman Does Not Like Haggis, Sir

Both creeds have pretty simple tests for admission, and people who meet these read their sacred texts in widely varying manners.

There is no neutral standard to which anyone can appeal and say someone who says "I follow Islam' or "I am Christian" can be judged to have said so falsely.

Where the I.S.I.L. hold power, it is they who define what is or is not true Islamic belief....

[GeorgeGist]

21. Rubbish.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

22. Agreed on basic principle only.

Last edited Thu Aug 28, 2014, 01:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Neither is in any way reflective of the religion they claim to represent.

The one major difference: WBC is tiny. ISIS isn't.

[Dems to Win]

23. Mohammed was a caravan robber who beheaded his enemies,

instructed his followers to take women captives as sexual slaves, and conquered territory by the sword.

It's all in the Koran and hadiths.

Have these moderate Muslim groups condemned Saudi Arabia, which regularly beheads people for sorcery? Saudi Arabia, where all Muslims travel to perform the Hajj.

I don't see much difference between the Islam of ISIS and the Islam of Saudi Arabia.

Sure, there are lots of Muslims who live good and peaceful lives by ignoring great swaths of the Koran, just like lots of Christians live good lives and don't follow the Old Testament and parts of the New. But I'm not willing to say that the people who are behaving in the manner of Mohammed are not practicing the real Islam, and the people ignoring so much of the Koran are practicing the real thing.

I'm not qualified to judge which is the 'real Islam.' I don't think there is such a thing, frankly. The 'real Islam' is the religion as real people practice it. Some Muslims practice an Islam that is not a threat to their neighbors, while some Muslims practice an Islam that is a threat to all people everywhere.

[CJCRANE]

24. Check out the "Constitution of Medina":

The Constitution of Medina also known as the Charter of Medina, was drafted by the Islamic prophet Muhammad.

It constituted a formal agreement between Muhammad and all of the significant tribes and families of Yathrib (later known as Medina), including Muslims, Jews, Christians and pagans.

This constitution formed the basis of the first Islamic state.

The document was created to bring to an end the bitter inter-tribal fighting between the clans of the Aws (Aus) and Khazraj within Medina.

To this effect it instituted a number of rights and responsibilities for the Muslim, Jewish, Christian and pagan communities of Medina bringing them within the fold of one community—the Ummah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_medina

There is no such thing as the "real" religion.

Religion is something that takes a lifetime to study.

Anyone whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish etc. who says they have the "real" religion doesn't know what they're talking about.

[linuxman]

25. Nope. Not even close.

WBB is a money driven lawsuit scheme which doesn't even buy their own BS, and hasn't physically harmed anyone. ISIS is a hyper-violent force of murderers numbering in the thousands, comprised of true believers who kill people and display their heads on fences for not following their incredibly narrow, fucked up view of Islam.

[MADem]

26. No. They both have dumbass ideas, but only one group cuts off heads.

A bunch of fringe, crazed, uneducated, unwashed, unfit and in-need-of-dental-hygiene idiots standing on the street corner with dumb-ass signs with homophobic messages on them is NOT the same as a crew of assholes who CUT PEOPLE's HEADS OFF.


If they were the same, ISIS could, conceivably, be thwarted and dissuaded from taking a town or village with these sorts of shenanigans, then?

Let's call Michael Moore and sic him on ISIS--he'll solve the problem lickety-split!

We may need more than one bus....

ISIS is a bunch of murderers, using the Quran as "cover" for their nefarious behavior.

[Fred Sanders]

27. My point is a simple one not extending to your hyperbole, they both use religion as cover for their

nefarious ways, agreed 100%.

My parallel was to the philosophy, same philosophy same hatred, same desire to eliminate outsiders, different means. I thought it was obvious. My bad.

[Chathamization]

28. I think Phalangists would be a closer comparison. I feel physically ill reading about Sabra and

Shatila (overseen by Israel and enabled by western governments, it should be pointed out).

The Lord's Resistance Army and the Serbian militias in the Baltic wars. Unfortunately, massacres go on all around the world. Anyone who hasn't realized that US outrage over massacres is..."selective"...hasn't been paying attention (watch how little attention has been paid to the massacre of protesters in Egypt, where as many if not more people died than died during the Tiananmen Square massacre).

[Aerows]

40. Brutality only gets worse

the more religion and heavy weapons are introduced to the cause.

[Marrah_G]

29. Except that Westboro doesn't have the numbers or weapons

They really aren't the same.

[Aerows]

42. See my quote above.

There doesn't seem to be a situation that can't be made worse by introducing lots of religion and weapons.

[Kurska]

38. Yes that is why thousands of Christians are flocking from around the world to aid WBC

As they slaughter their enemies, often with the support of large sections of the local populace.

[Aerows]

39. Lunatic fundamentalists

are going to be lunatic fundamentalists. Sure one brand might be crazier than another, incite more hatred directly than another, but vile lunatics are still vile lunatics.

[Fred Sanders]

41. You get it, thanks. How far away are the open carry gun toting Bundy militia type from ISIS would be

my next analogy and question?

[Aerows]

43. Honestly?

One or two bullets flying and some nutbag religious "leader" to keep them flying. They were all praying together while pointing guns at federal officials. One loose shot and that could have turned deadly, and honestly, like I said, in many ways we are one nutbag religious leader preaching enough fire and brimstone combined with followers with firepower from having something crazy erupt.

[WestCoastLib]

45. The only difference is because of the environment

ISIS and other horrible Islam groups are are brutal as they are because of the constant upheaval and brutality of the Middle East itself.

To all the defenders of Westboro, I don't doubt for a second that if things all allowed to deteriorate a lot further here into a real state of Civil unrest, war and poverty, Westboro would be just as brutal. Hell, they would practically have to be in order to get their point across.

If our wealth inequity issues, our hate evangelists issues, our gun issues, our education issues, our race issues and our police issues continue to deteriorate we will see groups like Westboro turn to violence to make their point.

Recognizing that ISIS and Westboro are of the same mold is not about morally equating their annoyance with murder. It's about recognizing these groups for what they are so that we can hopefully prevent them from becoming what groups like ISIS become

[Fred Sanders]

46. ISIS was once a vile seed of hatred and open calls for killing infidels also. Anyone who cares to

know the history knows they did not spring out of the sand overnight, the societal conditions had to be right, the breakup of Iraq after the Americans without a strategy left it in ruins was the time to get armed and get some support for war.

Who needs a strategy?

[JI7]

47. i actually don't think ISIS cares about ISlam at all

and i'm not saying it's because of their violence. with Al Qaeda i could see them as being about Islam and wanting whatever they thought was islamic to be the way things are.

but in the case of ISIS i seriously don't think they really care or know much about the religion. they seem uninformed about religion and they seem to only want money for themselves. they kill anyone that gets in the way of their wealth .

[Fred Sanders]

48. As Obama pointed out with the "no just God" reference...could have just left the 'just' word out.

[Nye Bevan]

49. How many people have the Westboro Baptist Church kidnapped and beheaded? (nt)

[Dorian Gray]

50. Yes

but ISIS is more dangerous and deadly than Westboro was. Westboro had like 50 m3mbers who picketed. (ugly!) Isis murders and kills indiscrimintaely.

[NathanielCowger]

51. Yes. Exactly.

I agree; however, I hope that you will also agree that Westboro doesn't really even come close to ISIS. Westboro is the most radical Christian group while ISIS is the most radical Islamic group. The only difference is Westboro doesn't kill anyone. ISIS kills thousands.

[Kalidurga]

52. In a crazy off

Westboro would literally lose thier heads. I don't know where the proposal that members of the Westboro Church were going to go to Iraq and picket went, but there was a thread or two on that. I think they would last about 5 minutes and then they would be prisoners and then they would be dead former prisoners.