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CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 11:15 AM Aug 2014

ISIS = Saddam's Army That Bremer Disbanded

+ Al Qaeda + Syrian Rebels + Foreign Fighters.

Many of us have been trying to figure out where ISIS came from.

How did they get so good at military tactics, logistics, terror propaganda so fast?

Well, it turns out that the core of ISIS are many of the same people we fought during "shock and awe" and during the Sunni Insurgency.

Remember when Bremer dismantled the entire Iraqi government and sent the military and police force home?

There were then hundreds of thousands of unemployed, armed and experienced generals and soldiers...who of course came back to bite us in the behind in the insurgency.

Petraeus tamped down the insurgency by bribing the Sunni tribes (without the permission of the Bush White House, according to an interview with Jon Stewart).

Those guys didn't go away. Many were imprisoned for a while. And along the way they found religion.

It's all explained here: LINK New York Times

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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ISIS = Saddam's Army That Bremer Disbanded (Original Post) CJCRANE Aug 2014 OP
Armed religious kooks then, same as now, they just had time to organize again. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #1
facebook Amonester Aug 2014 #2
We had to destroy Iraq in order to save it. Or something like that. VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #3
Great long read on the Wahhabi link to ISIS (from Foreign Affairs forum ) underpants Aug 2014 #4
they use facebook & twitter for their central command Amonester Aug 2014 #5
So Saddam who want a secular government has somehow spawned these religious fanatics? jwirr Aug 2014 #6
It's more like Saddam who "wanted" and... Amonester Aug 2014 #7
Okay that makes sense. He was part of the mess that has made them so angry. Thank you of jwirr Aug 2014 #8
They were angry because they lost power CJCRANE Aug 2014 #10
Sorry if it reads a little rough (apologies) but I'm so tired of all fundies sh!t while Amonester Aug 2014 #11
Since they were born out of AQ/insurgents fighting the US, it stands to reason that they will TwilightGardener Aug 2014 #9
The foreign fighters could be more dangerous CJCRANE Aug 2014 #14
I predict that the more moderate among them will quickly realize the IS "command" is Amonester Aug 2014 #15
This also explains why they went religious and teamed up with the Syrian Sunnis. CJCRANE Aug 2014 #12
I remember marching in the streets along with thousands (millions worldwide) against.... Amonester Aug 2014 #13
Baloney! 951-Riverside Aug 2014 #16
That's "part of" what the repukes use in the hopes of capturing the Senate. Amonester Aug 2014 #17
It's a combination of different forces CJCRANE Aug 2014 #18
K&R Dems to Win Aug 2014 #19
There are also a number of different groups fighting Chathamization Aug 2014 #20
doesn't explain all the foreign ones and most of them are young JI7 Aug 2014 #21

Amonester

(11,541 posts)
5. they use facebook & twitter for their central command
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 11:33 AM
Aug 2014

and military equipment "Made in USA"

as they can't manufacture any of them, except camels.

Amonester

(11,541 posts)
7. It's more like Saddam who "wanted" and...
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 11:38 AM
Aug 2014

it's more like he made them so afraid of his wrath that they started to evolve a bit.

The lid has been removed now, and they're angrier than they were before.

They can't be satisfied with just playing FPS games anymore.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
8. Okay that makes sense. He was part of the mess that has made them so angry. Thank you of
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 11:42 AM
Aug 2014

explaining what you meant.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
10. They were angry because they lost power
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 11:47 AM
Aug 2014

to the Shia.

Bushco inverted the entirety of Iraqi society overnight.

Amonester

(11,541 posts)
11. Sorry if it reads a little rough (apologies) but I'm so tired of all fundies sh!t while
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 11:50 AM
Aug 2014

the environment keeps extincting life a little more every day, and nothing significant enough on a large scale is done about it.

And the repukes are back at using their FEAR! FEAR! FEAR! strategy (they have nothing else) in the hopes of 'capturing' the Senate...

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
9. Since they were born out of AQ/insurgents fighting the US, it stands to reason that they will
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 11:45 AM
Aug 2014

want to get us at some point. I think that's the motive behind wanting to attack and at least weaken them now, rather than waiting for them to act first.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
14. The foreign fighters could be more dangerous
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 12:06 PM
Aug 2014

because they're brainwashed.

But with all the surveillance and security procedures we have nowadays maybe they can be detected more easily.

The local Sunnis might just be content to have control over their own patch of land.

Amonester

(11,541 posts)
15. I predict that the more moderate among them will quickly realize the IS "command" is
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 12:09 PM
Aug 2014

not exactly what they're looking for...

We'll see.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
12. This also explains why they went religious and teamed up with the Syrian Sunnis.
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 11:56 AM
Aug 2014

If you consider that the Sunnis were taken out of power and Shias put in their place, Bushco implemented a de facto sectarian religious divide.

The Sunnis were discriminated against because of their religion so this probably drove them to become more religious.

Plus there weren't enough Sunnis to take on the Shia majority in Baghdad so they came up with the idea of teaming up with the Syrian Sunnis and carving out their own fiefdom.

Amonester

(11,541 posts)
13. I remember marching in the streets along with thousands (millions worldwide) against....
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 12:04 PM
Aug 2014
EXACTLY THAT

which WE were saying NO! don't invade Iraq OR also EXACTLY THAT will happen.

I remember it clearly.
 

951-Riverside

(7,234 posts)
16. Baloney!
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 12:09 PM
Aug 2014

[IMG][/IMG]



http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/syria-arming-the-rebels/

NARRATOR: But in recent weeks, they have been receiving more sophisticated weapons. It appears the Obama administration is now allowing select groups of rebels like them to receive U.S.-made anti-tank missiles, known as TOWs. Many of the fighters have filmed themselves firing the missiles. In addition to receiving weapons, the commander says he and his men were taken on a long journey to a secret training camp.

REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] They asked for a group of 80 or 90 fighters from our command, and we headed towards the Turkish border.

NARRATOR: Based on their accounts, we retraced their journey across the border into Turkey. After a 14-hour drive, they say they arrived in the Turkish capital of Ankara and were brought to a hotel. They were kept inside and questioned by Americans, who would only say they were from the military. But the rebels believed they were from the CIA.

REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] We met them for six to seven hours a day. It was medical examinations, questions for each person individually, like, “When did you join the uprising?” And “What was your profession or military rank?”

They had tracked our work and asked us to verify information about attacks we carried out, such as who was present and how many men were martyred. Your responses have to match the entire group’s.

NARRATOR: A week later, the rebels say they were surprised by what happened next.

REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] We only found out where we were going to be trained on the last day in Ankara, when the Americans said goodbye and that, “Tomorrow, we’ll see you in Qatar.”

NARRATOR: They were flown 1,500 miles away to Doha, the capital of Qatar, which is a key U.S. ally in the Persian Gulf.

REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] We drove for about two, two-and-a-half hours to reach the training ground. It was close to the Saudi border. We didn’t know where we were because it was desert all around.

NARRATOR: Over the course of three weeks, they say they were trained by Americans at a base in the desert guarded by Qatari soldiers. Like many of the rebels who were sent to Qatar, 21-year-old Hussein had never had any previous military training.

HUSSEIN: [through interpreter] They trained us to ambush regime or enemy vehicles and cut off the road. They also trained us on how to attack a vehicle, raid it, retrieve information or weapons and munitions, and how to finish off soldiers still alive after an ambush.

NARRATOR: The rebels were outfitted with brand-new uniforms and boots.

MUHAMMAD ALI: [subtitles] Those trousers are from them, right?

HUSSEIN: [subtitles] Yeah. We got these boots in training.

MUHAMMAD ALI: The Americans were warning the fighters not to tell this story at all. And even at one point, they told them, “If in any case this story will be published, we will stop funding you or arming you.”

NARRATOR: The CIA and the State Department declined to comment on the fighters’ accounts of arming and training, though the Obama administration has said it plans to step up support to the rebels, and there have been other reports the CIA is running covert training out of Jordan.

Amonester

(11,541 posts)
17. That's "part of" what the repukes use in the hopes of capturing the Senate.
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 12:18 PM
Aug 2014

I'm not saying it's false (I'm not sure if it's true).

Keep spreading their propaganda, and see what it will benefit you...

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
18. It's a combination of different forces
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 12:18 PM
Aug 2014

as per my OP.

The main point is that the core of ISIS did not just spring up out of the blue as the MSM would have us believe.

 

Dems to Win

(2,161 posts)
19. K&R
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 12:54 PM
Aug 2014

I've also read that many former Baathists are now in ISIS. They are Sunnis, maybe disagree with the religious aspects of ISIS, but join ISIS to fight for Sunnis against the Shia regime in Baghdad.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
20. There are also a number of different groups fighting
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 02:58 PM
Aug 2014

For a while all of the Sunni militant groups were called al Qaeda; now they’re all called ISIS. There are various militant factions that have shifting alliances, but I think such nuance is too much for the media.

It’s also worth remembering the rough sequence of events. After the invasion former army members wanted to work with the US, and were dismissed (hey, we had just beaten these guys, what could they do?). Then they fought against the US for a few years in the Sunni areas, until the US realized they couldn’t defeat them and decided to pay them (the “Sunni awakening”). When the US was winding down the occupation, Maliki decided it was time to get rid of the groups and go after the leadership. Maliki’s sectarian government encouraged more Sunnis to actively revolt, and the media’s decided to single out one particular group of militants because that’s what it does.

The armed rebellion finally lead to Maliki stepping down and some more attention paid to the sectarian nature of the government, something that political efforts failed to accomplish. One can imagine what lesson was learned there.

JI7

(89,239 posts)
21. doesn't explain all the foreign ones and most of them are young
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 03:48 PM
Aug 2014

i think they are just a bunch of thugs looking to build their own wealth.

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