General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsISIS = Saddam's Army That Bremer Disbanded
+ Al Qaeda + Syrian Rebels + Foreign Fighters.
Many of us have been trying to figure out where ISIS came from.
How did they get so good at military tactics, logistics, terror propaganda so fast?
Well, it turns out that the core of ISIS are many of the same people we fought during "shock and awe" and during the Sunni Insurgency.
Remember when Bremer dismantled the entire Iraqi government and sent the military and police force home?
There were then hundreds of thousands of unemployed, armed and experienced generals and soldiers...who of course came back to bite us in the behind in the insurgency.
Petraeus tamped down the insurgency by bribing the Sunni tribes (without the permission of the Bush White House, according to an interview with Jon Stewart).
Those guys didn't go away. Many were imprisoned for a while. And along the way they found religion.
It's all explained here: LINK New York Times
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Amonester
(11,541 posts)VanGoghRocks
(621 posts)underpants
(182,603 posts)Amonester
(11,541 posts)and military equipment "Made in USA"
as they can't manufacture any of them, except camels.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Amonester
(11,541 posts)it's more like he made them so afraid of his wrath that they started to evolve a bit.
The lid has been removed now, and they're angrier than they were before.
They can't be satisfied with just playing FPS games anymore.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)explaining what you meant.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)to the Shia.
Bushco inverted the entirety of Iraqi society overnight.
Amonester
(11,541 posts)the environment keeps extincting life a little more every day, and nothing significant enough on a large scale is done about it.
And the repukes are back at using their FEAR! FEAR! FEAR! strategy (they have nothing else) in the hopes of 'capturing' the Senate...
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)want to get us at some point. I think that's the motive behind wanting to attack and at least weaken them now, rather than waiting for them to act first.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)because they're brainwashed.
But with all the surveillance and security procedures we have nowadays maybe they can be detected more easily.
The local Sunnis might just be content to have control over their own patch of land.
Amonester
(11,541 posts)not exactly what they're looking for...
We'll see.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)If you consider that the Sunnis were taken out of power and Shias put in their place, Bushco implemented a de facto sectarian religious divide.
The Sunnis were discriminated against because of their religion so this probably drove them to become more religious.
Plus there weren't enough Sunnis to take on the Shia majority in Baghdad so they came up with the idea of teaming up with the Syrian Sunnis and carving out their own fiefdom.
Amonester
(11,541 posts)which WE were saying NO! don't invade Iraq OR also EXACTLY THAT will happen.
I remember it clearly.
951-Riverside
(7,234 posts)[IMG][/IMG]
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/syria-arming-the-rebels/
REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] They asked for a group of 80 or 90 fighters from our command, and we headed towards the Turkish border.
NARRATOR: Based on their accounts, we retraced their journey across the border into Turkey. After a 14-hour drive, they say they arrived in the Turkish capital of Ankara and were brought to a hotel. They were kept inside and questioned by Americans, who would only say they were from the military. But the rebels believed they were from the CIA.
REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] We met them for six to seven hours a day. It was medical examinations, questions for each person individually, like, When did you join the uprising? And What was your profession or military rank?
They had tracked our work and asked us to verify information about attacks we carried out, such as who was present and how many men were martyred. Your responses have to match the entire groups.
NARRATOR: A week later, the rebels say they were surprised by what happened next.
REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] We only found out where we were going to be trained on the last day in Ankara, when the Americans said goodbye and that, Tomorrow, well see you in Qatar.
NARRATOR: They were flown 1,500 miles away to Doha, the capital of Qatar, which is a key U.S. ally in the Persian Gulf.
REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] We drove for about two, two-and-a-half hours to reach the training ground. It was close to the Saudi border. We didnt know where we were because it was desert all around.
NARRATOR: Over the course of three weeks, they say they were trained by Americans at a base in the desert guarded by Qatari soldiers. Like many of the rebels who were sent to Qatar, 21-year-old Hussein had never had any previous military training.
HUSSEIN: [through interpreter] They trained us to ambush regime or enemy vehicles and cut off the road. They also trained us on how to attack a vehicle, raid it, retrieve information or weapons and munitions, and how to finish off soldiers still alive after an ambush.
NARRATOR: The rebels were outfitted with brand-new uniforms and boots.
MUHAMMAD ALI: [subtitles] Those trousers are from them, right?
HUSSEIN: [subtitles] Yeah. We got these boots in training.
MUHAMMAD ALI: The Americans were warning the fighters not to tell this story at all. And even at one point, they told them, If in any case this story will be published, we will stop funding you or arming you.
NARRATOR: The CIA and the State Department declined to comment on the fighters accounts of arming and training, though the Obama administration has said it plans to step up support to the rebels, and there have been other reports the CIA is running covert training out of Jordan.
Amonester
(11,541 posts)I'm not saying it's false (I'm not sure if it's true).
Keep spreading their propaganda, and see what it will benefit you...
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)as per my OP.
The main point is that the core of ISIS did not just spring up out of the blue as the MSM would have us believe.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)I've also read that many former Baathists are now in ISIS. They are Sunnis, maybe disagree with the religious aspects of ISIS, but join ISIS to fight for Sunnis against the Shia regime in Baghdad.
Chathamization
(1,638 posts)For a while all of the Sunni militant groups were called al Qaeda; now theyre all called ISIS. There are various militant factions that have shifting alliances, but I think such nuance is too much for the media.
Its also worth remembering the rough sequence of events. After the invasion former army members wanted to work with the US, and were dismissed (hey, we had just beaten these guys, what could they do?). Then they fought against the US for a few years in the Sunni areas, until the US realized they couldnt defeat them and decided to pay them (the Sunni awakening). When the US was winding down the occupation, Maliki decided it was time to get rid of the groups and go after the leadership. Malikis sectarian government encouraged more Sunnis to actively revolt, and the medias decided to single out one particular group of militants because thats what it does.
The armed rebellion finally lead to Maliki stepping down and some more attention paid to the sectarian nature of the government, something that political efforts failed to accomplish. One can imagine what lesson was learned there.
JI7
(89,239 posts)i think they are just a bunch of thugs looking to build their own wealth.