Any chance we could give the grave-dancing posts a rest, maybe?

[WilliamPitt]

bigtree and redqueen were long-time contributors here, and DU treasures in my opinion, whether you agreed with them or not. I went round and round with both of them over the many years I had the opportunity to associate with them here, and watching their departure felt like getting punched in the chest.

I know I'm not alone in this sentiment. If you think "GBCW" post are egotistical, then I would submit that "I would never do that" posts are equally so.

As someone who has coughed up a couple of farewell posts myself over the years, I devoutly hope bigtree and redqueen return someday, as I did.

In the meantime, and out of respect for two long-long-long-time posters who made this place better, a humble request:

Give it a rest.

Thanks.

[The Magistrate]

1. They Were Good People, Sir, And I Will Miss Them Both

I can see no reason anyone would have to cheer their departure.

[Rex]

3. Had some epic fights with both of them on DU2, respect the hell out of both.

I hate seeing ANY old timer leave DU. After 12 years, friend or not...feels like family and we all know that family doesn't always get along but they are always there.

[stevenleser]

22. Jury results for above post: 4-3 to hide....

On Thu Aug 28, 2014, 12:54 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

K&R
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5455531

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Sure doesn't help the civility of DU much, eh? In a thread asking to stop gravedancing and nastyness, we get...nastyness. Calling DUers assholes. Please hide and let's get back to the DU we once had.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Aug 28, 2014, 01:02 PM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with alerter. Not only is this nasty attack hideworthy, poster doesn't seem to get that their nasty attack makes them look pretty hypocritical.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I was torn with this one... I agree with the poster's comments but do feel it could have been expressed a different way. I'm not pleased with having to do this because I feel the poster was using the term in general but because the OP asked for civility... I'll vote to hide.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: language attacking members is over the top and unnecessary
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: An honest sentiment.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yeah, it's a bit much. I agree with Will and Bjorn Against, but we don't need to call folks "assholes" - couldn't you just be "sickened by those who feel the need to attack departing members"?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Logical]

96. Good hide. nt

[jberryhill]

4. I dance on the grave of the grave dancing threads!

[MADem]

12. OK, YOU win this thread! Hands down!!!!!

I think the best way to let things sink is to actually LET THEM SINK, rather than bringing them back up and telling people how they should feel about them...so threads that bob a fading issue right back up to the top normally don't move me, in fact, they irritate me because they are doing the opposite of what they claim to endorse (let's stop talking about this by talking about it some more), but that post of yours was just so damn flat-out hilarious and made the whole "Tsk, tsk...Let's not be dramatic about the drama, now, children--stop doing that!" exercise both amusing and worthwhile!

I'm quite sure if the people who left want to come back, they will do so under their own steam, regardless of how much or how little DUers snark about, or bemoan, their departure. They're doing what they feel is right and I don't think they're looking for permission to do anything from anyone here. And if they're really GONE, they won't be reading all these dramatic threads about their departure, anyway.

Maybe they'll return under an assumed name--it's not like THAT never happened here, now, after all! More power to them whatever they do...!

[leftstreet]

5. +1000

Thank you

[unblock]

6. these "give it a rest" posts are getting tiresome

/kidding!

yeah, very sad to see these departures; and, very silly of others to look at someone who contributed tens of thousands of posts and quarrel with their farewell.

[tkmorris]

7. All of it just makes me sad

There are too many people bringing a hyper-competitive attitude to a place where we are all presumably, if not on the same page, at least reading from the same book. This inevitably leads to magnified attention being paid to minor differences between us. We need to stop beating on each other and start supporting each other instead.

[berni_mccoy]

8. Who is grave dancing?

[daleanime]

65. If you don't always give it.....

you lose it.





?

[riqster]

10. To be clear: saying "hell no, I won't go" is not grave dancing.

Last edited Thu Aug 28, 2014, 01:51 PM - Edit history (1)

It is something quite else.

I will miss Redqueen and bigtree, and have said so. But it is OK for people to make different choices and to state them here.

[MADem]

16. Indeed.

Your post told us how YOU felt about being a member of this discussion board. It was your personal perspective.

You didn't tell others how they "ought" to feel about the departure of others.

You shared your view, and you weren't didactic in the slightest. I agree with your view, FWIW. It wasn't grave dancing, it was your personal perspective.

I think many of us "get" that, so be of good cheer.

[riqster]

19. Thanks! I am reasonably cheerful.

Band is playing tonight, and we are camping over the holiday with a daughter and a Grandbaby. Life is good.

I hope all is well with you and yours.

[MADem]

20. Happy as a clam, here--family coming in from the Caribbean tonight, and

and I got my Maaaahkit Bask-it Soooo-pah-mah-kit back!!!

And the chunk of the family vacationing up in Iceland are still sending back pics, so all's well there, too!

Life is, indeed, grand!

[cwydro]

21. Ditto nt

[Zorra]

31. Exactly. nt

[libodem]

11. It is iimportant to remain respectful

Even if you don't agree with their positions. I had written some alter-ego comments about Zimmerman and made made an out there, he better watch his back, comment I was hidden and put on a timeout.

I really appreciated reading the comments in my defense when i could not post and explain myself, citing the sarcastic nature, and the, 'that isn't how this poster actually speaks when writing in her own voice.

As opposed to: "Oh, that old troll I'm glad 'he's' out of here. You never know what some people actually think of you until they think you aren't coming back.

I'm glad Skinner allowed me to come back. No matter what some groups think of me, I consider myself a real feminist and a very progressive liberal Democrat. If my word isn't good enough certain groups can stay on 'trash this group'.

[AverageJoe90]

73. "It is iimportant to remain respectful....Even if you don't agree with their positions." I agree.

It's not always easy, though, TBH, especially when you have to put up with some rather hardcore nastiness from time to time.

[libodem]

80. Yep

[fleabiscuit]

13. Aye n/t

[LittleBlue]

14. "If you sit by the river long enough, you will see the body of your enemy float by"

-Sun Tzu

One of those you mention was a grave dancer and in many ways a grave digger. So no, no fucks given.

[winter is coming]

42. Ever go to a funeral and find yourself double-checking the program

because the eulogies don't describe the person you knew?

It happens online, too.

[LittleBlue]

43. Nail on head

Nicely done

[hifiguy]

63. "I have never wished anyone dead

but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure."

Attributed to Mark Twain but actually a paraphrase of this quote from Clarence Darrow: "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."

Twain should have said it, though.

[LittleBlue]

70. ...

Class quote

[opiate69]

68. Well said.

[WillyT]

15. Hear, Hear !!!

[meegbear]

17. BAH!

[Ninga]

18. While I am not a prolific poster even though I have been here 11 years, I am an avid

reader. I depend on DU for points of view that challenge my thinking and for those views that offer insight and support to the Democratic cause. This forum has changed dramatically and I find myself searching more often for more meaningful discussions that peek my interest. It's getting harder.

Things change and people move on even in DU-land. So long to Redqueen and Bigtree, may you return, and if you don't, I loved reading your stuff.

[cwydro]

23. Sorry Charlie

Tired of those who consider themselves DU "VIPs" telling us what to think or do.

I liked both of the "goodbye" posters, but those of us here still have the right to comment on their dramatic threads.

[WilliamPitt]

24. Telling?

Asking.

[cwydro]

33. True

I grant you that..

But anyone who posts a goodbye thread has to deal with the responses.

Right?

[rhett o rick]

47. Sounds like a rationalization. nm

[cwydro]

64. Huh?

[FSogol]

79. Translation: Tsk, tsk.

[rhett o rick]

81. Exactly. Grave Dancing and other bully behavior has no business here. It's both disruptive and

really straight from jr. high. And I think it's a rationalization to say that because someone posts a goodbye thread, then they some how deserve grave dancing. But it seems some are here determined to alert, lock, hide, and ridicule in lieu of discussing issues. Anonymity makes some people brave.

As far as your ridicule emoticon, I hope it impresses your friends. Tsk, Tsk.

[FSogol]

89. Finger wrangling also has no place here. I did not grave dance on redqueen or bigtree's GBCW thread

so, no idea why you keep harping on me about bullying.

[rhett o rick]

95. I responded to cwydro and you jumped in with the rude "Tsk Tsk", like you were mocking me.

Tell me if I am wrong. You seem to be trying to justify grave dancing and ridiculing those that object. Sorry Jake but I don't play that game.

[msanthrope]

44. Nailed it. nt

[BrotherIvan]

25. Looks like this plea didn't work

Bitter, bitter, bitterness.

[FSogol]

26. DU's favorite kind of post is when someone scolds us for something that isn't happening and

if it did happen was limited to one of two pesky, disagreeable posters.

Those type of finger-waggling posts usually get 100 recs and dozens of replies of people saying, yeah, I'd never do that (which translates to: "I'm more liberal than you&quot .

While there has been copycat posts riffing on the 'I'm leaving" theme, there has been no ill will wished towards Redqueen or Bigtree, thus no grave dancing or disrespect.

[BainsBane]

27. Actually there have been ill wishes toward Redqueen

Look in her good bye thread.

[FSogol]

35. Her goodbye thread had over 10k views and over 300 repsonses.

How many ill wishes? 2-3?
There is much more support of her, even from people who argued with her daily.

[BainsBane]

36. about 6 or so

Too many, and clearly refutes your point that there are no ill wishes.

[FSogol]

39. Less than 1/2 of 1%.

Statistically insignificant. You ignore the 99% showing of support and focus and the negative?

You'll never get EVERYONE to agree.

[BainsBane]

41. No, I don't ignore the 99%

I am part of that 99%. However, you didn't say there wasn't much ill will. You said there was none.

I'm not the GBCW post type myself. If I go, I'll just go. But I don't begrudge others' doing it, especially when they aren't the sort who have done them before. I suppose if I weren't so upset by Redqueen's leaving, I wouldn't take the mock posts so negatively. But the fact is I am, and I find them hurtful. BigTree is also someone who clearly cares deeply about society. I admire that a great deal--not so much the people who say he takes things "too seriously."

[rhett o rick]

49. So if someone calls you an asshole (not that I'd suggest that, this is pretend) you would

shrug it off as statistically insignificant?

Grave dancing is lame no matter how few do it.

[FSogol]

54. Sure, if 99 people showed me support and 1 said I was an ass, I'd shrug it off*.

My point is there isn't grave dancing going on, so we have no need of poster waggling their fingers at DUers and saying, "tsk, tsk."
DU should never be a game of "I'm more liberal than you" (not that I'd suggest that people are doing that, this is pretend).



* Probably for me, if 99 said I was an ass and 1 showed support, I'd shrug it off too.

[Dawgs]

30. Yeah, but it was Pitt who did the scolding.

Can't h-e-l-p myself, m-u-s-t REC.

[cwydro]

34. Well put nt

[blm]

28. Thank you. They were our progressive compatriots.

.

[Dawgs]

29. Oh Jesus Christ!

Enough already.

[LanternWaste]

58. Which is why you're responding...?

"Enough already..."

Which is why you're responding...?

[johnp3907]

32. Hear, Hear!

[KansDem]

37. Okay, let's go back to "shave-dancing"

If ever there was a need for shaves, it's these three!

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. A decision to stop posting, and posting a thread about it, is in no way a metaphorical death

There are no graves to see. We were meant to react to their decisions.

[cyberswede]

115. I agree. nt

[hamsterjill]

40. Anything that lessens our numbers is a bad thing.

Democratic Underground is a site designed to promote the Democratic side of the political arena.

We need to always be concerned when someone leaves. That doesn't necessarily mean that the person leaving will, heaven forbid, join the other side, but it is in our interest, as Democrats, to always keep people involved and included. There is an element rampant on DU of late that likes to exclude, and that element is not helpful.

I didn't have much interaction with bigtree (obviously my own loss!), but I will definitely miss redqueen.

[Jester Messiah]

45. I've never wished a person dead...

But I've read many an obituary with a smile.

[dembotoz]

46. lots of viewpoints is a good thing

if i wanted a small tent i would not be here

[DonCoquixote]

48. I hear you

I am guilty of grave dancing, but only on people that really went out of their way to hurt people, including bragging about how they hurt people like Bigtree and redqueen. However, I will try to stop, although if certain people who I think were instrumental in said people leaving finally get shipped out (as opposed to coddled, lauded, and pampered to) then I will stifle my grin.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

53. yep.

I was getting brain-tangled trying to put it in words...you got it for me, thanks! I saw sooooooo many people hassle red queen in particular.

[DonCoquixote]

55. Bad behavior sucks by anyone

Be it people we normally like or dislike. However, I do have to ask, when liberals, especially feminists or minorties, get chased out of here, why the silence, especially from people who will go on and on on how White Males are oppressed, or how we really need to get on board with the Centrists agenda.

To paraphrase MLK: the silence from our "friends" is deafeningly loud!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

56. that IS the question! Here, on a progressive board, misogynists and racists are nice and cozy

having the upper hand?


The jury system reflects where general consciousness is at, and these repeated incidents show consciousness needs raising. Geez, we're still protesting this shit??


Edited to add this content from another post (bold added by me)...because here, we are supposedly on the same side:

Gillibrand To Male Colleague Who Called Her 'Porky': 'Thanks A--hole'
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/gillibrand-male-colleagues-called-porky
She does not give names, but this clarifies why no gender equality bill can be passed in the US Senate (and I am sure some of this guys are "on our side".

In promoting her new book, Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) has come forward with several stories of being called "chubby," "fat," and "porky" by her male colleagues in Congress.
In one incident from her early days in the Senate, Gillibrand describes an older senator who approached her from behind and squeezed her waist. "Don’t lose too much weight now," she recalls him saying. "I like my girls chubby.”

Gillibrand also recounted the time a labor leader advised her to improve her looks if she wanted to win a special election for her Senate seat in 2010.

“When I first met you in 2006 you were beautiful, a breath of fresh air. To win, you need to be beautiful again," he said.

[mopinko]

50. such threads are always a good time to update the old ignore list.

tiny votes to boot them off the island might add up, who knows.

[rhett o rick]

51. Grave Dancing let's us know the true nature of some posters.

IMO Grave Dancing is part of our bully culture. I did not always see eye to eye with the two you mentioned but I am not here to see eye to eye with others. In fact I am here for the opposite reason. There are those here that wish to purify DU to achieve some type of intellectual heaven where everyone agrees with each other.

[libodem]

57. Agree

[Damansarajaya]

67. Agreed. We NEED vigorous dialogue, not just an echo chamber. nt

[nashville_brook]

69. +1000000

[Logical]

97. Maybe some people are just sick of people needing to announce they they are leaving. If....

you want to leave just leave. Prosense didn't make some major announcement and we all survived.

[rhett o rick]

101. You are not being very "logical". If "some people" are sick of goodbye threads, then they

should ignore them and let the rest of us comment without the rudeness. If you are sick of something, that doesn't justify rude behavior. I think those people you are referring to enjoy the opportunity to be rude and ridicule others.

Decent people would let people say goodbye and leave w/o being rude.

[Logical]

104. Some people love drama. Some don't. nt

[rhett o rick]

106. That's very logical. But some of those that don't "love drama" seem to love ridiculing those

that do. Instead of ignoring drama, they jump in with both feet to see what they can stir up.

[Logical]

107. We disagree on this topic. I think you are wrong. You think I am wrong. Get it? nt

[chervilant]

139. Some people love derision.

Some don't...

(see, others can play that "justification" game...)

[winter is coming]

102. Meh. I'd say "to announce or not" is up to the person doing the leaving.

OTOH, if you've been here long enough for some people to miss you, you've been here long enough for other people to not miss you and both groups are entitled to voice their opinion.

[sabrina 1]

130. You would have a point if there was some rule forcing anyone to read posts, but fortunately

we have several tools making it possible not to even see threads we don't want to see. Eg, next time you see a 'goodbye' thread, you can simply thrash it and go find something you are interested in.

I don't have a problem with people saying goodbye. Most of the time it is because someone has become so upset, or hurt that they feel the need to get it out.

Even if it is someone we normally didn't agree with a lot of the time, I think most decent people will feel some compassion for another person who is clearly unhappy.

You never know what is going on in someone's life. Is it so hard either to ignore them and let them have their say, or just make a kind comment, wishing them well?

Why is there such a need to always criticize people, especially when all people have to do here, is just ignore whatever they are not interested in?

[rhett o rick]

136. Well said. As I see it, political liberals look forward to good honest debates. To have that

you must have others that don't mark lock-step with you. I will use dkf as an example. I disagreed with dkf very close to 100% of the time and on occasion I got frustrated. But I always though he was honest and was willing to debate in an honest fashion.

Sadly, I see the wrong people leaving DU. The bullies seem to prevail. I very much enjoyed bigtree's posts although I didn't always agree. I more often than not disagreed with redqueen, but I am saddened that they are gone. And let's not forget Nadin. She was always a hoot, but she made it interesting.

Those that I wouldn't mind leaving are those that think it's their duty to cleanse DU, or do "housekeeping" as one of them put it.

Stay cool Sabrina

[AuntPatsy]

59. K&R

[Javaman]

61. Redqueen left?

that I didn't know.

I didn't agree with her many times, but she was passionate about her beliefs and supported her arguments.

It's a shame to see her go.

[Liberal_in_LA]

62. thank u

[Damansarajaya]

66. I thought Redqueen was a little too focused on one issue

and a little too strident in her pursuit of said issue, but I learned a lot from her and she changed my way of thinking on many aspects of male privilege.

She had a place here, and I too hope she returns.

[AverageJoe90]

72. Well, if she does, I hope she'll have changed her attitude for the better.

She was not very kind to people who disagreed with her on certain things. I should know.....

[boston bean]

84. When are you going to admit to yourself, that it is you who DISAGREE

with the vast majority of DU?

It is not them disagreeing with you. It is you being disagreeable, and making posts, to be honest and truthful, that are racially insensitive and that is being kind. You spout that bullshit, you get what you get.

[AverageJoe90]

85. Oh, please.

that are racially insensitive

Proof please?

[boston bean]

86. It's everywhere and MANY have told you. Read the responses to your racially insensitive drivel.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5452606

[AverageJoe90]

87. The burden of proof is on the accuser. Please show me your evidence. nt

[boston bean]

88. I don't have to lead or show you anything. Read the responses in your my posts tabs.

I'm sure it's all there.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5452606

[AverageJoe90]

92. I've got darn near 9,000 posts and a history that only goes back 4 pages.

And there's nothing there that could possibly be misconstrued as insensitive.

So, I'm afraid I can't really help you. If you do decide to come forward with what you believe as proof, then feel free to send me some DU Mail, or whatever. Until then, I'm not sure if there's anything more we can really discuss without just going in loops, truthfully speaking.

[boston bean]

93. READ the responses and reactions that others have had in response to your postings on race.

then... Reflect.

[AverageJoe90]

71. Bigtree, I will miss. Redqueen? Not so much.

Redqueen, sad to say, even if she may have had some interesting things to say from time to time, really had some issues with things. I'd had a fair number of encounters with her, and not many of them were good.

Bigtree, on the other hand, I didn't see much of. But from what I did see, he seemed to be a genuine article.....which, unfortunately, we seem to be missing quite a few of, these days. Instead of thoughtful posts from folks like him and ProSense, we have to put up with bullshit like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5457266

Because, apparently, according to the post linked within, you are a racist if you disagree with his particular viewpoints on institutional injustice in this country, even if you're actively fighting said injustice. And that's just one example.

I've only been here since 2011 but I've definitely noticed that this site has begun to circle the drain since about the last year. What happened to us, goddamnit?

I'm sorry, folks, but I think it's pretty clear I'm fairly distressed at this point.

[WilliamPitt]

75. Mansplain it to me.

redqueen was offensive. DU is circling the bowl. You've been here less than three years.

Um.

[cyberswede]

111. Maybe redqueen wasn't the one with "issues with things"

[NYC_SKP]

74. Consider why they left. Then fix the broken system.

Or just merge DU with Discussionist.

[Logical]

98. Wow, are you serious. So some people leave, and 99.9% stay and we need to fix it? nt

[NRaleighLiberal]

113. clear - exactly how? Completely different purposes for each site.

Amazing how much insight someone can develop so quickly...

[2pooped2pop]

77. a few?

[rhett o rick]

78. Those that you are addressing won't listen. They rationalize their behavior by claiming

simply that it isn't grave dancing. It's a lot like bullying. When I have confronted bullies here, they rationalize their behavior by claiming that the person they are bullying, deserves it. Their rational is that it's ok to bully if you can decide that the person "deserves it". That's exactly the excuse used by all bullies.

[PatSeg]

82. You know,

I think the first "Goodbye Thread" I read here was one of yours Will! I think the threads all read sort of the same, but at the time I didn't know that. You took some nasty licks as I recall.

You survived as do we all and there is more to life than an Internet forum.

[FourScore]

83. I didn't know they left DU. How sad.

I will miss them.

[cwydro]

126. they'll be back

no worries

[suffragette]

90. Strongest agreement and recommendation

[WillyT]

91. Post #2 Got HIDDEN ???

My My, the bullies are truly thinskinned.

[AverageJoe90]

94. I didn't see anything wrong either. Not a good hide, IMO.

And, frankly, I myself very rarely call anybody an "asshole" around here unless they've done or said something which I think really warrants it. And there's only a couple of times where I've done that in recent months(although both of these folks were acting pretty damn fucked up.....and yes, I'll try to dig up the proof and send it via DU Mail if anyone's interested).

[Logical]

99. Really......

Should we even be able to call posters " assholes "? Unless they are short term trolls or flat our GOP idiots?

[WillyT]

100. Been Doing It For 12, 13 Years So Far ...

Thick-Skin Theory and all...

[Logical]

103. Link to a couple for me. Recent ones. nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

105. amazing, idnt it.

amazing it was alerted on and very telling that it was hidden.

[hrmjustin]

114. And you know this how?

[AverageJoe90]

116. Unfortunately, there may be some truth to that.

I reported a particularly objectionable post which ended up tarring a large majority of this nation's liberals, simply because they might not agree with his interpretation of certain things. I might as well post the proof, for those who might be skeptical:

"AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert On Thu Aug 28, 2014, 08:24 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

I, for one, am completely okay tarring racists as racists.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5457266

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

This post would have already been problematic in general, but this is what really caught my eye: "And if three-quarters of Liberals fail to see the blatantly obvious white privilege in this country, then three-quarters of Liberals are at least a little bit racist."

Now, how in the hell can someone justify that kind of talk? There are MANY liberals in this country who don't believe in "white privilege" but who DO understand the reality of institutional injustice, and some of whom are actually on the front lines fighting for it. And yet, this person labels them all as racist simply because they don't agree with this person's terminology. Goddamn. Do we really want this kind of self-righteous bullshit accepted on this website? This is, at the very least, a high-end Community Standards violation. And in fact, claims like this should probably be TOSable as well.

I, for one, am sick and tired of this nonsense. Enough's enough.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Aug 28, 2014, 08:40 PM, and voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: semantics..........
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I am white and am incredulous that anyone in our society could deny the fact of white privilege, which is endemic at every level. Anyone who does so is in deep denial of the reality which surrounds them and are, in my opinion, racists.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: truth is truth.....

Thank you."

And, what's worse is, Jurors #3 and #7 seemed to have actually agreed with this person's extremist statements. So something's definitely a little off with the jury system and I hope that it can be fixed at some point.

[winter is coming]

117. I don't see any trolls on that jury. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll. n/t

[AverageJoe90]

119. "Not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll" True, but that wasn't what I was.....

trying to imply anyway. I don't think that everyone who disagrees with me is a troll. With that said, though, I do agree with Andy33 that there is a problem, and furthermore, Juror #3's response was definitely close to trolling, if not actually crossing that line.

[winter is coming]

120. Juror #3's response is nowhere near trolling.

If you think it's trollish to hold the opinion that denying the existence of white privilege is racist, I find myself wondering just how well you understand trolling, white privilege, or racism.

[AverageJoe90]

122. I understand trolling and racism quite well, thank you.

Because I've been on the receiving end of the former a fair bit, on the Internet in general, during the past few years, so I'm pretty good at spotting it. And I also understand perfectly well what racism is.....which is why not agreeing with "white privilege" isn't racism; because disagreeing with it doesn't mean that you collectively hate or fear a group of people, or believe them to be inferior, etc., which is basically what racism IS, am I right?....well, no, of course I'm right.

And the fact that you seem to believe that disagreeing with the idea of literal "white privilege" is racism, definitely makes ME question whether or not that YOU know what actual racism is. To be honest, I have my doubts.....

[cyberswede]

123. Ding ding ding

He doesn't understand white privilege or racism (which he has demonstrated ad nauseum).

The fact that he's using Andy33 as a "reference" also demonstrates that he doesn't understand trolling. At all.

[AverageJoe90]

124. So me agreeing with someone is a problem?

Because I've actually seen that problem firsthand on multiple occasions. I'm sorry that you're skeptical for whatever reason, but it happens, and I'm not the only one to have noticed.

[cyberswede]

127. You agreeing with a troll is a problem.

That "brand new" poster is a troll and a zombie, which you should recognize, if you're such an "expert" on trolls.

(Oops..WAS a troll)

[AverageJoe90]

132. Well, I guess you can't catch them all right away.

To be truthful, it very often takes a lot more than just one or two posts to actually suss out who's a troll and who isn't, unless they're extremely brazen, or have been caught before. I do trust MIRT to do their jobs in that regard, because they actually can track IP addresses and stuff, which us ordinary DUers can't.

But it doesn't change what I've said one bit. I can usually spot a troll when I've been around them long enough.

[cyberswede]

135. Seriously...a brand new poster hops into a thread about gravedancing...

and blabbers about how juries are "run by trolls" and this didn't suggest to you that the poster was a troll?

[cyberswede]

118. Juror #3 got it right.

You should be embarrassed about that alert.

[AverageJoe90]

121. "You should be embarrassed about that alert." Not at all. I stand by it 100%.....

because, frankly, it was completely and totally justifiable. Nobody should be allowed to engage in that kind of slanderous B.S. on a Democratic website(three-quarters of liberals are racists, my left nut); such utter tripe is really more suited for Discussionist, where it belongs.

[cyberswede]

125. Nobody said 3/4 of liberals are racist.

The poster said IF 3/4 of liberals don't recognize white privilege, then those 3/4 are racist. It was hypothetical.

The fact that your alert was denied by all 7 jurors should really give you pause - you should reflect on why your viewpoint on this issue is so diametrically opposed to most DUers...it's because you're wrong.

[AverageJoe90]

128. "it's because you're wrong." No. Not at all.

The poster said IF 3/4 of liberals don't recognize white privilege, then those 3/4 are racist. It was hypothetical.

And you know what? It doesn't matter even if it WAS meant as a hypothetical. Because it is still HIGHLY offensive and insulting to those good people fighting the good fight to be slandered as "racists" just because they disagree with a certain viewpoint. That is just FUCKED UP, and the last thing we need to be doing is copying the Republicans in that field of ultra-purist extremism.

And frankly, if such ever did become the truth, then we'd be in pretty deep fucking shit. You remember the 2010 fiasco? Such a situation that you seem to hope for would ensure that Republicans dominate the White House and the Congress for generations to come.....because positions like that would alienate most moderates, either convincing them to stay home, or vote for the other side, and possibly permanently at that. Is that what you'd want in this actual hypothetical situation? I'd think not, but, unfortunately, that's exactly what would happen.

[cyberswede]

131. Uh huh.

People discussing white privilege on DU will drive away voters. Riiiiight.

[AverageJoe90]

133. In that hypothetical situation you laid out(and I elaborated on), it probably would.

But then again, you are so completely blind to the truth that perhaps you'll never get it. Whatever, though, because that's not going to stop me from exposing the truth and posting it, no matter how unpopular I may become with some cliques.

[cyberswede]

134. Ok...you keep on keep in' on

...exposing...something, anyway.

But when African American posters tell you you're wrong on white privilege, you should believe them.

To wit:

I will send you $50 if you stop posting in race threads. Your ignorance and stupidity on this topic which you are simply compelled to regale us all with despite the fact that you have been asked and even BEGGED repeatedly to stop are beyond insuferable.

[mountain grammy]

108. I will miss them, and hope they come back, as I expect they will.

[redruddyred]

137. I think the point of these post is to bring up problems w/i the community which led to them leaving.

imo.

[Major Hogwash]

138. Doesn't grave dancing refer to when someone is banned? As far as I know, neither one of those . . .

. . . two members were banned.

[stupidicus]

140. yes, their victims should remain silent

and expressing joy about their departure is no doubt far worse a crime of "civility" than the likely many that cultivated the grave dancing attitude.

Apparently neither of those two crossed the "no return" lines with you that they did with others. Given my single experience, I can see why some might wanna piss as well, while dancing...

Obviously I'm not alone in this sentiment, and I really don't care how small of a minority I am a member of. This is my first comment on the matter, and just to be clear, it ain't about sating my desire to dance and piss on a grave, but rather the denial (under penalty of admonishment) of a the right to do so. It reeks of an effort to delegitimize the dislike and disrespect they likely earned in many cases no matter how much you qualify your case with "I had disagreements with them too!" stuff -- like the nature and character of those disagreements were identical, including the egregiousness of insult that resulted. They have just as much a right to have and to hold those feelings and to express them as those singing their praises.

This pixelworld we're immersed in here ain't much diff from the real world in terms of the interpersonal dynamics, and nothing illustrates this better than the "popularity contest" nature of DU this subject showcases and your request here is a part of, and the "pecking order" every new poster has to learn to navigate as a result, lest they run afoul of some popular "long time contributor" and their entourage.

That's why the jury system here more closely approximates the dispensing of indulgences (bought and paid for) than justice from "peers".